Why my country is so irrelevant

>>53322462
Bros

>pay debts sandnigger
They only say that for us desu

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Spain is based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAMkb6QgyMs

>>53322462
Yall were a tad brutal to your colonies in south and central America. Plus, Yall got embarrassed at the end of the 19th century desu

>>53322462
Well I like Spain for many reasons and Spain is well-liked generally in the UK

I think the reason you declined so much is the civil war. Civil wars are extremely damaging, and they make a country look inwards for a long time. Before that, the Napoleonic invasion was catastrophic.

Spain actually has a lot going for it, and I think you are capable of a revival of sorts

It's better to be irrelevant. In this global clusterfuck that we live in being irrelevant is the only way to survive.

>>53322462
TO HELL WITH SPAIN

>>53322734

How so? Spanish America hates them a lot.

>>53322462
>most autistic country in Europe
We are the normiest country of Europe.

>>53322797
Easy Joao, germany is helping us, not with money, but importing the natural spanish enemy.
>El vil moro cabron

>>53322820
you guys may be normies but i think France is more

>>53322911
France is more tolerant towards autists, anime is something normal there, for example, Spain is literally "facebook: the country", if you are not an extroverted normie and go to parties or drink alcohol, you are an outcast.

>>53322726
As if we were the only country that was harsh to colonized territories.

I mean, yeah, José, atrocities were committed, that's obvious and I'm not defending it, but look at the amount of Natives that are still in South and Central America (and those who have mixed blood) and then look at those in North America.

We were really good during the end and the beginning of the XXth and the XXIth centuries, especially considering all the shit that had happened here.

The loss of the empire was a combination of very bad luck and also shitty as fuck management. We were in Latin America to pillage and fuck brown pussy, without much thought (or no as much as we should have had).

>>53323017
NO THAT IS ITALY, THAT IS ITALYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

>>53322797
>How so? Spanish America hates them a lot.
Being the home of the Spanish language is still a big plus. Their economy is better than most people think, it is fairly diversified and is usually well run. Before 2008, Spain had a lower debt to GDP ratio than Germany. And Spain was following the deficit rules while France and Germany were breaking them. Spain has big global companies in many different sectors of the economy, too.

With a population of almost 50 million, Spain has a fair amount of influence in the EU. But their population also means that, if they get their GDP per capita nearer to UK levels, Spain could rise to become a top 10 economy

We have to see what happens. It's a shame that PP and C's couldn't form a clear majority coalition. If the left-wing take power in Spain I will be much less optimistic about their prospects

>>53322462
>why is my country so irrelevant
Five centuries of bad leaders and stupid econimic decisions

>>53323075
There both similar desu, fucking mediterranean culture, if only the visigoth didn't learn latin.

>>53322689
I love you italy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqVd5TPpNos&index=33&list=LLvk7raIe4i-cmv-gu-4x8IA

>>53322462

puta

>>53322646
>>53322689

Thank you bros, we'll be together when Europe collapses.

>>53322734
It's good to know that, and I think you're right, Civil War and the next 40 years with Franco were devastating. Autarchy and poverty all over the place.

>>53323017
I think that's pretty accurate, we're like the bimbo of Europe really, but we've got nothing remarkable on the inside, and our trends are a copypasta of american retarded trends but 2 years later and adapted to our own retardation.

But, still, we have almost 50 million people here, we should be something more than a drunk doll, at least in Europe.

>Otto von Bismarck: ‘I am firmly convinced that Spain is the strongest country of the world. Century after century trying to destroy herself and still no success’

>>53323399
That quote is false.

>>53323420
I'm Otto, can confirm I said this.

>>53322462
Hehehehe.
Break up,faggot,we'll eat you all

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He killed spain

>>53323447
I'm Otto's otouto. I can confirm my aniki said this.

>>53323508
Napoleon killed it.

>>53323508
Carlos I did

>>53323574
:^)

>>53323646
Napoleon was italian not french.

>>53323508
>>53323574

> Blaming historical characters of the current situation in Spain.

>>53323707
:^^)

La culpa la tienen los sudacas, si sus culturas de mierda fueran un poco más decentes (lo cual se hubiera conseguido exterminando o mermando a los indios) España tendría mejor imagen internacional.

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there will always be persons lesser and greater than yourself

it's nature's way

>>53323718
>implying those historical characters didn't have a huge impact in everything that happened in Spain in the last centuries.
>being this illiterate

Read a fucking history book nigger, I bet you think only Franco is to blame for our current situation.

>>53323840
you literally created us, how is it our fault?

>>53323840
>La culpa la tienen los sudacas, si sus culturas de mierda fueran un poco más decentes (lo cual se hubiera conseguido exterminando o mermando a los indios) España tendría mejor imagen internacional.

Esto. Culpar a los sudacas me parece lo más sensato e inteligente, hace falta tomarla con alguien y los sudacas son una buena opción.

>>53322462
Nice culture, music and cuisine I guess.

>>53323953
Anglo countries that achieved independence at least tried to be first world countries.

Some of them failed, like Australia, but most of them are doing pretty well.

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>>53323718
saludos

>>53323953
>you literally created us

No. Your cultural heritage is African and Indian. The Spaniards were a minority elite.

>>53324107
that's besides the point, it was the spanish that brought over the africans and you also forgot to kill all the injuns

screw you desu worst colonialists

>>53324193
> forgot to kill all the injuns
We wanted to fuck with them, not kill them.

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>>53324107
as always

>>53324056

Poné lo de Francisquillo dale jajaja.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gMnYKzJkik

chill out, in 3rd world countries you're seen as fucking paradise (because you're europe)

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>>53324225
>>53324193
sorry

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>>53324245
che

>>53324193

Te jodes. Desde la indenpendencia es asunto tuyo.

>Spain
>Autist
>Irrelevant

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>>53322462
Never heard of someone hating Spain here, pretty much the opposite desu.

>>53322462
Always with the "we" even though a tiny minority ruled but okay.

Your Habsburg kings created it largely and then proceded to fuck it up, literally actually they ended up with a retard king.

>>53323469
this

>>53322726
They werent

>>53322797
We dont hate them, thats just some dumbasses, but they are a minority in the whole America. Most of that minority are the memeposters from these boards

>>53323840
Sorry Manolo :^)

former colony say hello

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>>53323469
>>53324697

reminder that 90% of sudaca hate towards Spain are butthurt mexicans who claim that Mexico is a first world country and stuff like that

>>53324761
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islas_Salvajes
These islands are your rightful clay

>>53324052
kek

>>53322462
We love you papa

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>>53322462
> bawwwww we don't have a global empire anymore ;_;

You sound like a character right out of an Ozores movie. Are you butthurt because we are not a global player anymore? Newsflash, none of the traditional empires are except China.

Look at Britain doing the US bidding, hiring American journalists to create pro-US opinion at home and even fighting in Black Friday stores like they were in some craphole in North Dakota.
The Netherlands? They are too worried about their immigrants to make Dutch a world language again like English, Spanish or French, which have prevailed in contrast to Dutch.
France is still kind of an important country for Africans since it is their colonies' biggest trade partner but they have been surpassed by Germans as far as European politics go, and will ultimately fail to compete against the Chinese push into Africa.
Russia is starting to become important again, but as soon as their strong charismatic leader who keeps selfish oligarchs in line and understands world politics is gone, a Yeltsin is all you need to bring Russia back to tracksuit and dashcam depression.
Turkey was once the mightiest country in the world and would not even appear in the news nowadays if they did not have a GOAT geostrategic position.

You hate yourself because you believe we still live in the 60s. Fascism made us an international pariah, that's for sure, but Fascism is fortunately gone. We are the top destination for exchange students in Europe, Spanish filmmakers and cooks are creating cultural trends abroad, our tourism industry is still strong and even social trends such as 11M proved popular and influential. Of course we need to curb unemployment, demand better education for the people and elites, and rebuild our second sector if the EU stops being stupid about economic policies; but stop believing we are all Alfredo Landa characters like 40 years ago.

>>53324668
I never considered Netherlands part of our empire. The only territory that we had was in america (mostly conquered by castilians ) and in south italy ( mostly conquered by Aragon). Netherlands was a territory of the Habsburg...

>>53325321
>mostly conquered by castilians
Jordi Pujol, is it you?

>>53325321
>The only territory that we had was in america (mostly conquered by castilians )

They were from Andalucia, Canarias and maybe Galicia. Castilla didn't conquer shit.

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>>53325301
>Look at Britain doing the US bidding
Huh?

>>53325435
but Andalusia, Canary Islands and Galicia was part of ... the basque-navarre crown ?

>>53325435
and extremadura too

>>53325584
>basque-navarre
it was only navarrese crown
that's like saying catalano-aragonese crown or even worse

All of the Spanish people I've met have been really cool and nice 2bh

>>53322462
real talk, apparently you spainards seem to look down upon any other countries except (western) europe, sa and na. at least your racism crap has become more known among east asian countries. racism in aussieland is like a meme but yours is a serious one, not like that. you might not know it but everyone is staring to know about it through mainly some shit in sports games. inb4 b-but japan.

and your country doesnt have an interesting modern culture, product, and entertainment besides the football league. i like gaudis architectures pretty much but thats all. although i once read a rare long manga set in medieval spain and focused on its royal family. the story was pretty long but fun.

>>53324745
I didn't even know that Taiwan is a former colony. But shit, it's a former colony that has surpassed us.

>>53325301
España cainita inside.

I'm not complaining for not being an empire anymore, I'm just asking why it's so complicated for us being a relevant part of the world despite being one of the biggest countries in EU.

As you say, we're a democracy now and all that, but we still have the same problem, we only treat "properly" with south american countries because we don't know how to communicate with non-spanish speaking countries.

Of course every country has theis issues, but look at this thread, most replys are from Spain, because we're to busy bitching about ourselves instead trying to be part of this world for something besides fiesta and tortilla.

>Filmmakers, cooks and tourism.

You are saying that I'm like a character from an Ozores movie and you're proud of same things that made us the backyard of Europe back in 60s.

>>53325730
>Japan
>calling other countries racist

>>53325730
It's the opposite, spaniards look down upon their own country.
>and your country doesnt have an interesting modern culture, product, and entertainment besides the football league.
That's because spaniards consider their own culture inferior, they have the culture of self-hate.

>>53325665
ok

>>53325730
Este japo tiene el ojete como su bandera xD

>>53322462
You removed kebab, now you need to teach all of Europe how to remove kebab

>>53325730
I'm currently listening to Coaltar of the Deepers senpai

>>53325321
Hmm well that's cool but they did not look at it like that while they had it. And it was a good source of income and that was why the Spanish spend so much resources to keep it under their wings.
Not to mention more competition with colonial matters doesn't help either, let's just say the empire would lived longer at the least if it was kept under Spains control.

>>53323508
I don't like blaming people but this guy really fucked up.
Like, he didn't even try

>>53323508
Viva Fernando VII :^)

>>53325907
>xD

>>53323840
>lo cual se hubiera conseguido exterminando o mermando a los indios
Entonces es su culpa

>>53325730
It's nice to have an opinion from an east asian country. I didn't know that you were seeing us as racists, maybe like thieves or something like that because of the romanian robbing to the japanese tourists, but not as racists. I even thought that Japan used to like Spain.

Really there is a growing community of weaboos here, but Japan ignores us so there isn't a lot of culture mixing between our countries.

>>53325730
i hope you can learn a bit more about our country, no offence but we don't have any problem with the asians.

>>53326065
xDDDDD

>>53326065
power ranger rojo
>>53325907
power ranger azul

>>53322726
tbqh, spaniards where much better to natives than the people who colonized your country

>>53326119
madrid have a big chinese comunnity

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>>53326294
Falta Nigeria, el mejor Power Rager psh

>>53322797
no not really

>>53325948
>we
Some guys that lived here 500 years ago you mean?

>>53325996
yes and no... our history is a drama

>>53326413
kek

>>53322462
name one empire that didn't fuck it up

>>53326356
Eso ya dependio más del conquistador, gente como Pizarro y Pedro de Alvarado fueron brutales pero por ejemplo Cortés no fue tan malo como lo pintaron, incluso él llego a dudar que esclavizar a los indios fuera lo correcto

>>53325840
la verdad si, heredamos de uatedes ese sentimiento de inferioridad y complejo de victima ante todo

Putos

>>53322734
>I think the reason you declined so much is the civil war
Massive inflation due the influx of gold and silver from the Americas. Spain had become a lesser/'middle Power by the civil war, not because of it.

>>53325840
the way you express your self-hate is funny though
it's mainly through telling everyone how sudacas and mexicans are a failure

>>53326356
this.
Spain being the worst country with its colonies is the bigest lie ever. No country was ever good to its colonies but Spain was one of the less cruel

>>53322771
"kill everybody over ten"

>>53325730
This
Spaniards really seem to look down on their former colonies, and that's a shame. What really shows how racist Spaniards can be is how they hate themselves; so much of Spain wants to be their own independent nations. To an outsider, with the exception of the Basque people, this seems frivolous.

>>53322797
Not that true.

>>53326657
but that's because we have some kind of North Korea syndrome
the last civil war (and the older ones) are officially over but we are still in the trenches

>>53326611
>Massive inflation due the influx of gold and silver from the Americas. Spain had become a lesser/'middle Power by the civil war, not because of it.
I was addressing why Spain didn't remain a fairly influential post-imperial power, like the UK or France. The big reason is the civil war.

I think rather than inflation, Spain's decline from world power status was due to the Napoleonic Wars. Many in South America respected Spanish authority before Spain was invaded by the French. It really changed everything.

France. They are always the reason why we can't have nice things, like feudalism.

>>53326657
What. If Spain has seccesionist movements (the only currently meaningful ones are the Basque and the Catalonian) is because of this country's multinational history, it has nothing to do with race: memes aside, people here are white and not Antonio Banderas clones and even then, only autistics would give a shit about race.

I agree though that there's a lot of casual racism here towards blacks, Latinos and Arabs. Towards Asian too, but it's mostly because of how secluded they are here and how they talk, not because of how they look.

>>53325730
>at least your racism crap has become more known among east asian countries


Some months ago I met a Chinese girl on Interpals and she asked me if I was a fascist or racist. She told me that she had saw that on the Internet and TV. WTF? I was shocked desu.

>>53326782
it also made Spain finally reject the moders style and go back to Medieval mindset
the terror after the french revolution and specially the Napoleonic invasion was the worst single thing that happened in Spain

>>53326918
>le multinational meme
if other europeans countries such as Italy, France, Germany or England don't really have that is because they took care about their Sabinos Arana and Blas Infante

>>53326610
si hubieron culeros, como nuño de guzman el que fundo aqui Guadalajara, y seguramente hasta los buen pedo serian considerados culeros con estandares actuales, pero a diferencia de los anglosajones el exterminio no era politica de estado

>>53326492
Was it that bad though? Most of the time mainland Spain was fine right?

And honestly, let's be realistic, your empire was way overstretched at a certain point and the fact that Spain was very stuborn when it came to religion makes me think Spain never had real chance maintaining it against increasingly improving competition.

>>53323840
>at the other side of the ocean
>not even swarming the peninsula before 1995
>hurr durr their fault

>>53326989
eternal black legend strikes once again

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>>53326608
de Pedro de Alvarado se poco, pero piazorro y cortes eran épicos, puede que Pizarro sea un capullo pero era un viejo que hizo lo que hizo, incluso cuando le mandaron a asesinar él salio a su edad a luchar contras siete soldados a muerte.
Me imagino que de cortes ya sabes. Lee acerca de Gonzalo Guerrero, es como la version española de Avatar. Un soldado exiliado que organizól a distintas tribus aztecas y mayas para luchar contra los españoles

>>53326995
No, I'm not justying Catalonia or Basque's wishes of independence (although I don't care that much), I'm just saying what they use as an excuse or a basis for that. And it's true for the whole cunt, but you don't see Andalusians or Valencians chimping out even if their culture is slighty different (apart from some retards).

>>53326995
If it makes you feel better, that was the period in which France permanently ruined itself. Almost continuously decline since then.

>>53327016
es más, gracias a la iglesia y la corona los indios consiguieron un status de practicamente igual a los españoles, no debia haber esclavitud sino enseñar a los nativos la fe y los avances de España para que luego ellos fueran libres e iguales
lo que pasa es que a tanta distancia eso era imposible de manejar y los conquistadores hacian lo que querian y crearon esclavos por todos lados

>>53327038
we had too many civil wars and we were too cucked by the church

>>53326918
> this country's multinational history
The only reason why Basque country and Catalonia have seccesionist movements is because they were the only industrialized areas of the country and the local bourgeoisie pushed for nationalism and independence to further their own privileges.
>multinational history
Which history? neither Catalonia or the Basque country have never been independent, Spain was composed of an union of old kingdoms.

>>53322734
> I think the reason you declined so much is the civil war

There were many factors that contributed to national decline.
> Decline of population in the 17th century
While French, English, Russian, Austrian or Dutch population kept growing, Spain was affected so heavily by crop failures and plagues that its small population could not sustain such a large empire.
> Inflation from gold and silver imports
Most of the money got jewed into European wars and Italian bankers anyway.
> Failure to dissociate Church and State
The Enlightenment did not affect Spain as strongly as Britain, France, the Netherlands or Germany. Universities were tight with the Church and not really interested in the scientific method. J.C. Mutis was an exception, not the rule.
> Failure to urbanise and alphabetise
Spanish elites were never interested in industrial expansion except for some shy attempts in Catalonia, the Basque country and Madrid. We are still paying for that.
> Internal shitstorm
We did not have just one civil war but four in less than 150 years, not even counting the war against Napoleon, the Latin American wars or colonial expensive adventures with close to zero ROI.

>>53324824
>this

>>53327038
the problem is that Charles V at that time the represented catholicism... that is the reason of why we are not protestant, that and the inquisition.

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By the way, if any non-Spanish on here see the discussion and become curious about how Spain was created, this is highly recommended

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nk276

>>53327209
Again, Castille and Aragon and the smaller kingdoms prior to that. I'm not legitimazing seccesionist movements, only that that's one of the excuses independists use for that, even if they're wrong (and this was originally an answer to an American who though these movements exist because of race).

>>53322462
I've been in mainland Spain 7 times and 5 times in the Canary Islands.

>>53327117
because the PNV or CiU version of Andalucia is PSOE who will never become independist and valencia hates catalonia too much to follow their ways

Spain is not really that much different from other countries with similar size and history, our problem is that we never created a centralized government and never fought regionalism

>>53326918
Remember, to most Americans, any kind of non-civic nationalism is inherently racist.
And really, the condescending attitude towards latinos is puzzling to us. You speak the same language.

>>53327063

Ya, pero la leyenda negra hasta ahora afectaba a Europa Occidental y América del norte como mucho (la morisma nos odia por otras razones). Me pregunto cómo cojones ha corrido la voz de que somos fascistas o racistas en Asia.

>>53327502
But what do you mean with the concesdencing nature we have towards them? Care to give any example? Or are you a Latino and have personally experienced it?

Because if Spaniards are something is not concesdending, as we're basically self-hating as fuck. Unless you mean looking down on countries that are in a worse social, economic... state, which is something absolutely every country does, especially here on int.

If you mean racism, well yeah, I said there's quite a bit of casual racism here, but not more than in other European countries. At the end of the day, if you're a good person that comes here to work and be peaceful, you're alright, without any importance to your skin colour and features.

>>53327523
Eso es culpa de que no tenemos suficientes relaciones con los paises asiaticos y de que cualquiera habla mal de nosotros...

>>53327523
cuando nosotros mismos solo hablamos mierda de nosotros que no pensaran los que estan tan lejos

>>53326995

>le multinational meme
>meme

You truly know shit about your country.

If we would have cared less in making all Spain look like Castille we wouldn't have had this problems. Back in the days nobody cared about your lanaguage or culture and everyone felt spanish. So make your math...

>>53327502
>And really, the condescending attitude towards latinos is puzzling to us. You speak the same language.

You speak the same language than Ghana or Pakistan. Do you feel very proud of them?

>>53327440
vamos que no acabamos de hacer lo que teníamos que hacer en su tiempo así como hizo Francia, no veo ningún vasco francés reclamando independencia.

Hahahaahha poor fag, i know is sad live there. Even here you can get a profesional job faster than there. I think all sudacas are shit, but our country surpassed yours.

>>53327753
pero si los de abajo son amarillos, sobre todo el calvo

>>53327440
>we never created a centralized government and never fought regionalism
Regionalism is okay, but requires federalism to work effectively. See Switzerland and the US.

>>53327816
>but our country surpassed yours

In what exactly? Beside beheading I mean.

>>53327847
Also Germany

>>53327847
> but requires federalism to work effectively
That's the problem, Spain was influenced by centralist France, instead of Britain.

>>53327209

>The only reason why Basque country and Catalonia have seccesionist movements is because they were the only industrialized areas of the country and the local bourgeoisie pushed for nationalism and independence to further their own privileges.
>I don't know shit about spanish history

>Which history? neither Catalonia or the Basque country have never been independent, Spain was composed of an union of old kingdoms.
>What are the Kingdom of Navarra or the Duchy of Barcelona.

Estiven en España hai uns días.
Que noxo de terra.
Nunca máis.
Galiza ceive, fillos de puta.

>>53327816
you are my light in this darkness, thank god for not make me mexican

>>53327951
t. Artur Mas

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>>53327790

Es verdad...

>>53327989

>projects because he's so stupid he cannot argue.

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>>53327980
Motherfucker, you made me spill my drink all over the screen.

>>53327671
I'm not latino, but I live in a heavily latino area. Yes, they feel like Spaniards think of them as lesser-thans. This perception gets passed on to huetos like me, and so-on.
>>53327766
Is English the primary language of either of those countries? Did the US colonize them?
>inb4 muh American empire or muh cultural dominance
A better example would have been Liberia.

>>53327951
>What are the Kingdom of Navarra or the Duchy of Barcelona.
Medieval Kingdoms and feudal territories controlled by nobles who didn't give a fuck about the language or culture they or the servants spoke.
>I don't know shit about spanish history
Muh Corona catalano-aragonesa.

>>53328120

>Medieval Kingdoms and feudal territories controlled by nobles who didn't give a fuck about the language or culture they or the servants spoke.

So you admit there have been actual independent basque and catalan states? Checkmate.

>Muh Corona catalano-aragonesa.

Are you retarded or you just have nothing better?

I'm not even catalan, moron.

>>53328024

Los resultados electorales en el país vasco francés hablan por sí solos. Ni siquiera tienen un partido nacionalista relevante.

>>53328104
Also, there's much more cultural similarities between Latin America and Spain than between USA and Ghana or Pakistan

>>53323067
>>53323075

Thank god this country is the only southern european country that is autismo friendly. Based Atlantic

>>53328104
Yes.
Both ghana and pakistan.

>>53328104
>Is English the primary language of either of those countries?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_entities_where_English_is_an_official_language

>Did the US colonize them?
The UK, which was the same thing back then.

>A better example would have been Liberia.
Okay, so how do you feel about Liberians?

>>53328104
They're most likely incredibly butthurt "muh stolen gold, muh raped and massacred ancestor" people that have never even interacted with a Spaniard (especially since there are so few in the US).

>>53327942
The UK is unitary parliamentary monarchy. Switzerland is a federal republic.

>>53328161

15% y subiendo. Teniendo en cuenta que es un país que ha estado reprimiendo cada intento de regionalización no está mal.

Lo que veo que no sabes es que, sin embargo, la inmensa mayoría, voten lo que voten, se sientan franceses o no, quieren un departamento propio.

>>53327896

>Size
>Job opportunities
>Science studies
>No sexual obsession in minor age levels
>We talk better spanish than yours
>We are not stupid butthurt racists
>We dont have a king (this is one of my favs)
>We dont have to go out from our country because we can have here all (except when you are a lazy wetback who doesn't want take real job or have studies)

>>53327847
we tried to do the same as you in the first republic but was ended with many conflicts between regions. For example in Adalucia Granada declare the war to Jaen...

>>53327942
>>53328242
The UK is not a formal federation but lots of power is devolved to the regions, like Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland. And the government is in the process of passing more power to the local regions in England

Having said that we are quite centralised.

>>53327790
exacto, los franceses no se andaron con gilipolleces

>>53327762
>and everyone felt spanish
no, everyone felt aragonese, castilian, navarrese, andalusian, etc Spain didn't existed as a country at least until Phillip II and I doubt if it has ever been a moment when everyone was Spanish and not from their region
if the government wanted us all to look like castilla, catalan, galego, valenciano and basque (and other minor languages) would not exist today and people like Sabino Arano would have been considered an evil instead of some kind of hero
the hasbourgs never had the guts to stop regionalism because they were busy enough with all the wars in europe and when the Borbons came they tried it and what they got were a bunch of civil wars with the help of England and other countries who where always there to make sure that spain loses all his colonies and never became a superpower again

>>53328024
that means shit

>>53328248

Link que corrobore lo que estás diciendo o te pego.

>>53328104
>Yes, they feel like Spaniards think of them as lesser-thans.

Two reasons for that:

1.- South americans have the same self-hate and complex of inferiority that spaniards.

2.- Spaniards think that the term "spanish" has been prostituted because of the south americans and they want to be seen as europeans or spaniards, not like spanish. It's a matter of racism maybe but I think anyone prefers to be seen more like an european than like a spanish in America.

>>53322726
Are you southen bruh

>>53327980
Thank god you aren't mexican :D
but god is a fag

>>53328155
Kingdom of Aragon was not Catalonia, Catalonia was a part of the Kingdom of Aragon as was Sicily and Naples, not even the most important part, you are trying to justify nationalism using medieval states, a period were the concept of nation didn't exist.
Do you also consider the balkan nations "turkish" because they used to belong to the Ottoman empire?

>>53328353
>god is a fag
yes, and you too :D

>>53325730
>the country that treated the chinese as if they were lesser beings than dogs calling anyone racist

>>53328369
the southern parts are literally a jungle

it's where the really really brown ones live

>>53328183
Bingo
>>53328210
>>53328223
Being an official language does not make it the primary language spoken. Also, English is not the official language of the US; we don't have an official language.
>>53328227
>that post
>proving their/my point
>>53328344
>anyone prefers to be seen more like an european than like a spanish in America
And that's weird. You seem more resistant to being lumped together than we Anglos do, and we are pretty prone to unnecessary muh ima snowflake butthurt.

>>53328273
>We talk better spanish than yours

You can't be serious. How?

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>>53328273

>>53328342

>no, everyone felt aragonese, castilian, navarrese, andalusian, etc Spain didn't existed as a country at least until Phillip II and I doubt if it has ever been a moment when everyone was Spanish and not from their region
if the government wanted us all to look like castilla, catalan, galego, valenciano and basque (and other minor languages) would not exist today and people like Sabino Arano would have been considered an evil instead of some kind of hero
the hasbourgs never had the guts to stop regionalism because they were busy enough with all the wars in europe and when the Borbons came they tried it and what they got were a bunch of civil wars with the help of England and other countries who where always there to make sure that spain loses all his colonies and never became a superpower again

As I said, you should really open a history book.

All this shit started when the Bourbons came and started centralizing ala France and people started chimping out (and with reasons).

And it was called Las Españas for a reason.

>that means shit

That means the "there are no basques in France claiming for independence" is BS.

>>53328343

O me comes la polla, anormal.

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/2015/04/03/politica/euskadi/el-progreso-en-votos-del-nacionalismo-vasco-en-iparralde-obligara-a-mover-ficha-al-gobierno-frances

>>53328342
> andaron

My eyes

>>53328499
Easier to understand, and none of their states has a faggy lisp as part of standard pronunciation.

>>53328492
Dude, you didn't even give any proof. Just "oh, I heard that some Latinos in my city feel mistreated by Spaniards".

But yeah, you sure showed me, José.

>>53328459
Jokes aside, I'd really like to visit the country, but I'm kind of scared of doing so, although I don't know if I should be.

>>53328422
yeahhh, sure Carmelo

>>53322462
comfy, friendly, fun. football

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>>53328273
>Job opportunities
>Science studies
>We talk better spanish than yours
>We dont have to go out from our country because we can have here all

>>53328499
>lisp

>>53328417

I never said Kingdom of Aragon was Catalunya, so don't fall into strawmans.

Before Petronilla and Ramon Berenguer married and united the Kingdom, in Catalunya there was the County of Barcelona as an independent nation.

I'm not trying to justify nothing, but to teach you people some history of our country. I'm not catalan.

>>53328273
mexico is like india dude. literally third world.

>>53323707
No, but Louis XIV was French :^)

>>53328499
whe dont have that weird "sh" or "ts" accent with all "s"

>>53328300
and cartagena declared war on both Madrid and Prussia

>>53328524
enlight me then my friend
you literally said the same I did
Spain was not a country until very late and only the bourbons tried to create a central state (not really to make everyone to look like Castille) but they failed cause of civil wars and external countries

>>53328554
>faggy lisp

Nigger I will fight you. That soft 'c' pronunciation is sex to my ears.

>>53328538
??

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>>53328575
>proof
>in a thread about perceptions
This is serious business, guise.

And Jose is a nice name 2bh. I like any version of Joseph. However, my name is Andrew, but I go by Drew. Pleased to meet ya.

>>53328554
Galicia? Have you heard women speak with that accent? It's amazing

>>53323364
I was always told in school that Franco saved Spain and made it great again. Sort of...

>>53328613
>in Catalunya there was the County of Barcelona as an independent nation
>independent nation
no, it was part of either the french or the aragonese crown
don't mistake autonomy with independence

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>>53328598

>>53328554
>>53328607
>lisp

Literally no one in Spain lisp, except uncultured people.

But I guess it's hard to tell when someone is lisping and when it's pronouncing correctly when you use the "s" sound for everything.

>>53328554
Ok, now it's pretty clear you're a chicano. How is America treating you?

Also, yeah, you might find it ugly, but it's not a lisp. Learn what "lisp" means and the use it properly.

And it's also the most correct way of speaking Spanish, since, you know, the language originated in Castille and you guys got the "s" sound by influence of Andalusians, Canarians and Anglo countries.

>>53328492
>You seem more resistant to being lumped together than we Anglos do, and we are pretty prone to unnecessary muh ima snowflake butthurt.

The relationship between anglos and americans has been more o less existent since centuries ago, but a lot of spaniards didn't knew nothing about south americans until they starting to arrive in the middel 90s, and we can treat each other and a lot of people here likes the "latino way of life" but also a lot of people don't feel comfy with the gangs, stabbings and all that third world shit.

>>53328524
>http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/2015/04/03/politica/euskadi/el-progreso-en-votos-del-nacionalismo-vasco-en-iparralde-obligara-a-mover-ficha-al-gobierno-frances

Lel. El PP ha tenido mejores resultados en el País Vasco y Cataluña.

>>53322462
We still love you Spain don't worry. You can't be more autistic than us.

>>53328724
galician accent is technically retarded spanish

>>53322462

CHICANO

>>53328647
hahahahaha actually i have a friend in croatia. Dude serously hahahaha you cant have any technician career before 17. Your country is a piece of shit hahahahahahaha for real, maybe spain can compete with us still but Croatia, pls you better dont talk.

>>53328880
>Dude serously hahahaha you cant have any technician career before 17

Are there under-age engineers in Mexico?

>>53328713
> cannot even conjugate "andar" properly

You are literally ETA

>>53328647
>125,235,587
>4,284,889
Some parts are scary, while other parts are nice. It's a big boy country thing, you wouldn't understand.

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>>53328667
>and cartagena declared war on both Madrid and Prussia

really? haha

>mexicans can't pronounce /z/
>talk about spanish lisp

a mi no me hablen mientras seseen más que un Sevillano

>>53328353
>>53328273

edgelord and fedora tipper, what a faggot you are
go back to /lat/

>>53328647
Hahahaha i still cant with this hahahahaha
a croatian hahahahahahaha
Take it easy Miroslav , go to army or take some police job with third class junk german weapons

>>53328613
> County of Barcelona as an independent nation
Independent county, there was no concept of nation in medieval times, only lands ruled by nobles.

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>>53328812

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>>53328855
It's sexy Spanish

Captcha confirms

Mexican Spanish is literally the worst Spanish, complete-meme tier.

>>53328667

Spain can be considered Spain since the marriage of the Catholic Kings.

And if we are saying the same, then you should agree with me that federalization is the way to create a new national feeling while preserving each ones identities.

>>53328794

>Hurr it was part of Aragon before being part of Aragon
>Hurr it was part of France and yet France was stupid enough to lost land to Aragon

Don't you see that you know nothing?

Since the fall of the Carolingian Empire till the union with the Kingdom of Aragon there were several independent counties and minor states in Catalunya that were eventually absorbed by the County of Barcelona that managed to unite all the region.

>>53328923
Nope. For an engineering you have to complete another four years when you finish high school (you can take 2 years highschool or 3 years highschool with technician grade)

>>53328841

>Changing goalpost all the time as he's beeing REKT.

So you admit you were wrong, right?

>>53328824
>Ok, now it's pretty clear you're a chicano.
>implying that calling someone a chicano is an insult
Still proving my point, I see.
>>53328823
Yeah, but your s sounds like a lisped s to everyone else.

>>53328941
aunque anduvieron es la forma "oficial" o "culta" no pasa nada por decir andaron

>>53329020

Independent state then. I'm not gonna discuss semantic differences since it is not the point of the argument.

>>53328952
After they declared war on Prussia and Spain, they tried to join the USA, in fact.

> tfw no achopijo burger with extra freedom

Calláos ya, que quiero dormir la siesta.

>>53328828
Thanks for the quality post. This actually provided insight. I guess you guys did have a lot of your own internal shit to worry about for the last century.

>>53328975
Another european cooksucker
>>53329022
Haha man, seriously, your country
need more that gold than us.
>>53329044
If you talk about chilango Mexico city spanish i'm agree

>>53329143
Yeah rape your own language

>>53329139
It's obviously not an insult, but just showing that you're pretty biased in your "arguments".

And since those arguments are nonexistant beyond "oh, but a guy told me that", I'll leave this here.

>>53328524
>http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/2015/04/03/politica/euskadi/el-progreso-en-votos-del-nacionalismo-vasco-en-iparralde-obligara-a-mover-ficha-al-gobierno-frances
jaja que se independizan a los franchutes, corran todos la nación vasca resurge de entre la sobras.

>>53329149
They matter, because state =! nation.

Spain pretty much feeds and clothes Europe and is primary source of Vitamin D

Qué honda weys, soy el Chapo Guzmán desde la cárcel probando mi nuevo proxy.

>>53329209
kek

>>53322462
Your country is irrelevant because your leaders wanted it to be with their shitty decision making. Rejecting the enlightenment, rejecting the industrial revolution, being a biblefaggot, etc.

You deserve it desu.

>>53329049
>Spain can be considered Spain since the marriage of the Catholic Kings
Carlos V had to go to both castilla and aragon to be crowned king and was only king of the first and not the second for a moment
even ferdinand II wanted to separate both crowns when he saw Juana la loca

>Since the fall of the Carolingian Empire till the union with the Kingdom of Aragon there were several independent counties and minor states in Catalunya that were eventually absorbed by the County of Barcelona that managed to unite all the region.

there were land ruled by a count, the count of Barcelona, but there were never a real country
just a count who united the buffer zone between france and aragon

>>53329240
There is no argument. This is not a debate. I'm just provided perspective, you fucking autist.
I'm a white (English/German/Slovene) dude who grew up around Mexican immigrants, and who moved to the Southwest as an adult. Did you want studies? Statistics? Sorry, spaz.

>>53329339
>this flag
>calling other countries biblefaggot

Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8

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>>53329166
hahaha
thank goodness he was there

>>53329326
No me engañas, el chapo no tiene buena ortografía. Te lo creería si fuera : "Ke honda weyes soi el chapo guzman desde la karsel provando mi nuebo protsi"

>>53329326
wena papi

>>53329339
>biblefaggot
>coming from USA

You snooze, you lose.

idk why but until the mid 00's many schools thaught that spain was a kind of evil regime that stole a lot of gold and blame spain for the shitty situation of the country ignoring that in our 200 years as an independent nation we only got political turmoil, and corruption without national unity until the early 1900's, it is funny considering they never teached about how were the 300 years of spanish rule

>>53327163
Yeah, kinda like the UK?

>>53329403
Don't need to get so rude. Maybe you're the autist, my friend.

>>53329413
Not him, but we have been officially secular since our country was founded. However religious our populace is, our government is secular.
You still have a monarchy.
C'mon, m8

>>53329403
not him but it is commonly known that mexicans are really butthurt and obssesed with Spain
don't take the thoughts of some butthurt chicanos as the thoughts of all latinoamerica or not even Mexico itself

>>53329413
>>53329442
We never had an army of militant Jesuit faggots running around.

We have evangelicals who are just super socially conservative, not outright autistic luddites.

>>53329501
>in god we trust in printed money
>god bless ya everywhere including politics
>secular

>>53329501
Tbh,currently people here don't give a shit about religion. Most of the young people I know are either atheist or just don't care about it.

just ignore comments of mexicans no mas

>>53329499
>jejeje biased chicano is wrong cuz no evidence
>no need to be rude
wew
>>53329508
123,000,000 is a lot of Hispanic America

>>53329589
Is secular, but culturally christian.

>>53329419

He estado aprendiendo a escribir estos días.

>>53329589
>>
>not understanding symbolism
Are you legitimately autistic?

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>>53329501
>You still have a monarchy.
>Implying it's a bad thing

>>53329298

So you're gonna play with words to not recognize that the County of Barcelona was independent and therefore that there were independent catalans?

I don't care if you prefer nation, state or country, the important thing is that they were independent for at least 2 centuries.

>>53329376

>Carlos V had to go to both castilla and aragon to be crowned king and was only king of the first and not the second for a moment
even ferdinand II wanted to separate both crowns when he saw Juana la loca

The fact that it was a union of crowns doesn't make the concept of Spain less real.

>there were land ruled by a count, the count of Barcelona, but there were never a real country
just a count who united the buffer zone between france and aragon

You think that being a county made you not independent? Because there were several cases in Europe of this.

Anything to deny reality.

>>53329651
ah... que bueno pues

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>>53329480
>Yeah, kinda like the UK?
Nah not really. In fact the opposite. After the Napoleonic Wars, Britain built its second Empire. The bigger one. And became much more powerful.

After peaking in the late 19th century we declined for approximately a century, and then began getting more powerful from the early 80s to the present day.

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>>53329508
Mexico will always be more relevant than you guys.

I don't even know what Spain does anymore. You have a shit army, shit economy, massive unemployment, no soft power, and no future.

I like Spain

>>53329615
want some pomada in your booty?

>>53329631
This
>>53329698
I was implying that having a monarchy is a vestige of superstitious beliefs. Monarchs derive their right to rule by supposedly divine will.
>Inb4 fedora meme
I'm Catholic, but I value secularism in government.

>>53322462
>Tfw Spain makes you feel a feel you didn't know existed

JUST

>>53329470
2bh the mexican gold was stupidly irrelevant compare with the peruvian one
also Spain extracted way more silver than gold

>>53329797
Cartel shit aside, Mexico is a neat place. Too bad all their shitheads move here.

>>53329800
envy is bad, for god we are all equals

>>53329797
I know you're desperate for replies, so here's your (You)

>>53329631
>>53329801
just like Spain

>>53328492
>Being an official language does not make it the primary language spoken
You... You might be fucking retarded.

>>53329912
Doesn't Spain still waste their money building megachruches?

I always think spanish are kind of 'crazy', not literally, can't find a better word.
>religious maniacs that want to conquer the world in the name of their god and kill all non believers
>have bull fighting as their most iconic sport , like they worship blood and death
>during football games, there are boos everywhere like the players just murdered their family
>language sounds like they are always excited and have lots of energy to spend

Not that I know anything about spain, but this is what I think about spain. :^)

>>53329801
The monarchies are just a meme nowadays. Our king delivers a speech at Christmas, do whatever the Congress tell him to do and represent us when he has to talk with Arabs.

>>53329987
Such as?

>inb4 Sagrada Familia

>>53329861
Totally agree man, we dont have need to go to your country and bother you... but there are some nasty lazy wetbacks who wants easy money instead studying

All these Sudamericanitos defending Spain, saying they didn't impose harsh conditions on their colonies

The Spanish seized an area that had estimated 400 persons per km2, with infrastructure/cities and handled it with such care that estimations made 100 years later number small villages, with approximate density of 60 people per km2 (today's Cusco, Apurimac and Puno). The """""efficient""""" "reductions"

If there are more incompetent people in this planet, ever and forever, it's the Spaniards. Their whole colonial policy makes the most staunch racist's blood boiling. The catch is, they spent most of the earned wealth, the wealth for which they sent their own people as well, on religious wars. Other estimations number livestock crisis four times in the 17th century, several famines during the 16th and 17th centuries. Gold/silver was several times sold at premiums over 200%, coins were introduced and retracted like last season's hats, which really shows the all out incompetence of anyone in Spain. They obliterated the economy because they answered these inflationary tides by depreciating anything they could, by more than 60% and 70%. Life in Spain for the average peasant then was probably a nightmare. 17th century was a banking nightmare to the point that the Potrosi mine (still actual?) started producing 150% less tonnes of silver because the Spaniards fucked the economies of entire Europe

Take a country, use it to rob an entire continent to get your capital inflows going, abandon any kind of industry to make Europe your supermarket (purchase everything from everyone) while your entire industry consists of making gold and silver flintlocks and sabers for vainglorious and warmongering officers

I really, really like Spain. It's a beautiful country, but I'll say: If there are subhumans on this continent. It's not Ukrainians, Balts, ex-Yugoslavs, Albanians...it's Spaniards. You don't even need to be an armchair economists to notice what a fucking the Spaniards are

>>53329987
no, most of them are like 400 or more years old
and la sagrada familia is being builded with donatives

>>53329801
>Monarchs derive their right to rule by supposedly divine will
not really
many kings were kings because they were back by the nobility as the leader

>>53329624
not even half of them will think that

>>53329744
> they were independent for at least 2 centuries.

>>53329797
your ignorance is not our fault

>>53329944
Less than half of Pakistan speaks English.
Most Mexicans don't speak the minority (but still official) native languages.
Almost all Americans speak English, but it is not the official language of the country.

Declaring a language to be an official language does not mean that it's the most spoken language. How is that hard to understand?

>>53330024
Man I kek'd a lot, you just see us like some kind of satanic jihadists with ADHD. I didn't knew that and except for the football games, when it's true that we like to go there and just curse a lot, most people here don't care about religion and don't want to conquer the world, and I think that we are near to eliminate bullfighting.

>>53330024
crazy people
>>53330162
thanks for your opinion

>>53329744
>the important thing is that they were independent for at least 2 centuries.
As with the Kingdom of Aragon, the County of Barcelona was not an independent Catalonia.
Medieval mentality is really different from ours, states were not based upon nationality but upon ruling houses and the territories they themselves ruled, the county of Barcelona is not an independent Catalonia, only a collection of lands which happened to be inhabited by catalonians and ruled by nobles who didn't give a shit about the language or culture of their subjects. Stop trying to manipulate spanish history to accommodate your federalist views, that's why all this nationalism is pushed, to federalize Spain so that the autonomous communities have more economical freedom so the bureaucrats have more impunity to steal money.

Guys, GUYS!

How do we make Spain relevant again?

>>53329857
what amuse me is that some people seriously believe that Spain ruined the country, those same people say things like "mexico was conquered by spain" when there was no mexico when cortez arrived, just a bunch of amerindians killing eachother and living under the aztec rule, or other things like "mexico would be better if the brits would have colonized us" idk maybe, maybe not, who knows?

it is really silly

>>53330162
if you revolt and want your independence because reasons and have 200 years to rebuild your country and become a better one but instead you blame the other, which one has the fault?

spain was shit managing its colonies but the people who live there didn't do shit

>>53329987
no, most of them are like 400 or more years old
and la sagrada familia is being builded with donatives

>>53329801
>Monarchs derive their right to rule by supposedly divine will
not really
many kings were kings because they were back by the nobility as the leader

>>53329624
not even half of them will think that

>>53329744
> they were independent for at least 2 centuries.

>>53329797
your ignorance is not our fault

>>53330162
Shit man, holy fucking shit, you really hate us, fuck, I feel dirty now, shit.

>>53330113
2bh I've known some really great immigrants though. Most were people who did what they had to do to escape the cycle of poverty, and they did that by taking a big risk and working hard. As an American, I respect that.
The gibsmedats and gangsters will be shit no matter what, and they will perpetuate their shitty behaviors and mentalities through the generations.

>>53330452
Give back California

>>53330452
being an state of the US

>>53330456
there is also the fact that Cortes only succeded because there were a bunch of tribes that wanted to overthrow the aztecs
in some sense Spain only fueled a war and took advantage of the situation

Fuimos como un pobre al que le toca la lotería, Era inevitable que nos follaran ideológica, económica (joos) y diplomáticamente por todos los lados. Tenemos suerte de nos ser una provincia francesa.

>>53330442

I haven't said that it represented an independent Catalunya. But back in the thread someone said that there has never been an independent catalan country. And it has.

You are the kind of people that accuse the nationalists to manipulate history for their own aims (and you're right), the problem is that you fail to see that you're making the same just to accomodate to your own political bias.

The fact that you have to mention obvious things like that medieval states were something different to nowadays ones is a clear warning that you're trying to make a false dichotomy fallacy to make your point as the only one.

And this has nothing to do with my federalist views, but with being true to history. Funny thing is that the least corrupt authonomies in Spain are, precisely, the ones that have their own economical (semi-)freedom.

>>53330525
It was Mexico's when we took it, not yours.
Interesting (to me, at least) fact about my city: the north side has been part of French Louisiana and the US, while the south side has been part of New Spain, Mexico, the Republic of Texas, and the US

>>53330525
You mean after we made it the 7th largest economy in the world?

>>53330565
UK is already our European state. Best way to infiltrate the EU desu.

>>53330456
Can some spanish negroe give cock to this guy?
He claim for it because, we aren't saying Mexico is ruined because spain.... Actually spain is worst than our country you malinchista fag, you only want to fuck people who are pride of our country because you want to be european but you can't....
i bet you're a chilango.

>>53330704
>UK is already our European state. Best way to infiltrate the EU desu.
ok danke!

>>53330452
they will soon be relevant by being one the few non muslim european countries

>>53330758
>al Andalus
>non-Muslim
Does that qualify as irony?

>>53322462
Because our countrymen like it that way. They hate geopolitical power, global relevance, multinational corporations, etc... That's what happens when you are surrounded by commies in disguise

>>53330704
>You mean after we made it the 7th largest economy in the world?

Yeah, that would really help to make us relevant again.

>>53330711
seriously, mexico is india but with less population

>>53330825
ironically Spain is the main reason catholicism survived

>>53330869
Fair enough.

But no.

>>53330452
Being relevant nowadays just makes you receive refugees so what's the point

>>53330711
Homicides rates already make your country worse than spain, there really is nothing more to defend or assert

>>53329797
CHI

>>53330919
Just going to make a bold statement here: you're a dick.

>>53330921
Well, could you at least give us Alaska or Arkansas?

>>53331013
How about Puerto Rico?

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>>53330758

>>53331059
We have a deal

>>53331059
that would be great, or at least give them freedom

>>53330456
People who lived there, """"created"""" were the Spanish middle and wealthy class. The Mexican example is great to illustrate this. After the revolutionary war, the Mexican economy tanked so hard it didn't recover until Porfirio's (dubious) national """""""reconstruction""""""

Why? Because the Spanish landowners (Iberian ones, so as to not leave Basques and Catalans dindus, Basques especially) ran away to Spain - taking their wealth and technology with them.

""""wealth""""" and """"technology""""
That they fucking managed to turn a central American, highly populated place an agrarian shithole with ZERO industry and giant land division systems that would make the Persian satraps proud. This is the reason Mexico is behind the U.S today. ZERO ENTREPRENEURSHIP and QUAZI FEUDAL rule that is still traceable in Mexican society

Don't even get me started on demographic situation in Castillian crown from 14th to 17th century. The academias estimate that 2 MILLION Spaniards left Castille. Imagine that number in that day and age, and how shitty, incompetent and backstabbing the Crown was against its own citizens. 2 MILLION. Castille had 10 million people around the 15th century

They imported 16 million pesos worth of silver from Peru in 1630es and it fells down to fucking 1.4-5 million pesos in 1680es. What kind of a fucking fuckup do you have to be?!

Phillip II spent around 38-40 MILLION DUCATS on fighting just in BELGIUM, against the Dutch

Debt rose thrice from 1610es to 1650es - to almost 50 million ducats. The state treasury was so fucking empty. THEY DIDN'T HAVE REAL CURRENCY LEFT THERE, IT WAS ALL DEBT ON PAPER
It took them 10 years to make millions of copper coins useless. They issued more bonds to fix WORTHLESS blonds in the 17th century, so anyone could literally expect to be paid by the Spanish crown

>>53330477
I love it and I hate it and I hate it for loving it

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>Enter the thread
>See mexicans defending their Narcostate is better than our country

>>53331059
Sure, having a second Tenerife would be nice. :p

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>>53330711
I would rather lose the use of my legs and left arm than have to live in Mexico desu nooffence

>>53330030
Sagrada Familia doesn't receive public funds, though.

>>53330937
>Being relevant nowadays just makes you receive refugees so what's the point

Only if you are a Christcuck.
See: Japan.

>>53322462

relax my hairy friend, it's like 99% of the "empires" are gone by now any way.

>>53331131
It's funny, because all in all nowadays we're less poor than your Slavshit country.

>>53331235
>See: Japan.

Living in an island may have some influence though

>>53331119
They have voted against independence several times. We should give them statehood, but that would fuck up the symmetry of our flag.

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>>53331277
Tell that to UK

>>53331235
well, japan is probably too far away