Do Americans really believe they won the Vietnam war?
>the entire US military was defeated by a bunch of brown, rice field dwelling manlets with sticks
YOU LITERALLY CAN NOT, I REPEAT, CAN NOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP
In all seriousness we did lose. It was a war we were never going to win in the first place. The army only accepts unconditional surrender as victory and there was no way you were going to get that from a guerrilla force.
>The entire Australian military was defeated by tall, flightless birds
11 years in a "quagmire" of bureaucratic and economic indecision meant to keep China inside it's own borders.
It was never meant to be won. And Vietnam wasn't even the enemy. It was the Chinese.
>Result - North Vietnamese victory
>Withdrawal of American-led forces from Indochina
>Communist governments take power in South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia
>South Vietnam is annexed by North Vietnam
>No clear cut winners and losers.
>MFW this is what Americans actually believe.
Well we didn't lose it all by ourselves we had a lot of help from you and your kiwi hand puppets
You're at a club and this guy slaps your girl on the ass, what do you do?
The war ended in 1973 under the status quo that existed before the war. That is a concrete fact. 2 years after the war ended, North Vietnam decided to invade and take over South Vietnam.
And yet today Vietnam has the highest opinion of the US out of any country polled. That's called winning the long game without even knowing it.
>The war ended in 1973
>Implying you didn't stay until 1975
>And yet today Vietnam has the highest opinion of the US out of any country polled
Which is what you get when people without the internet aren't exposed to what you shits are really like.
What are you guys talking about? They totally won the war.
>>Vietnam has no internet
Except I didn't say they don't have any at all. Good strawmanning, though.
Not really. Not many of them around, so they don't all know you're cunts.
> says the country that got fucked in the asshole multiple times in wars they started
Lost how? Certainly not tactically. And forces don't lose politically, governments do. There is a difference.
You haven't made a single valid point or argument accounting for why the Vietnamese love the US despite the fact that they have been exposed to our media (i.e. tv and movies primarily) for quite a long time.
>Lost how? Certainly not tactically.
Yes, we all know. More Vietnamese died than US-led forces. But if KDRs were all that mattered in wars then by that retarded logic the British won the American revolution and the South won the American Civil War.
>And forces don't lose politically, governments do. There is a difference.
Not really. The forces are just a tool or puppet of the government acting on its behalf. Their successes and failures are intertwined. I realise you're not going to concede this, anyway. But you'll be stewing about it for hours to come because you know I'm right.
>Not many of them around, so they don't all know you're cunts.
Millions of Viets live in the U.S. And recently the opposite has been happening. Soldiers from both sides have actually made up for the most part.
Maybe when they're exposed to cunts, it's actually a bunch of Australians impersonating Americans.
The NVA/Vietcong didn't makes any gains though. They were never able to take additional territory while US combat forces were in the country. They prevented themselves (North Vietnam) from being taken over and the US and others prevented South Vietnam from being taken over *during the course of the actual war*. That is a pretty textbook stalemate, not significantly unlike the beginning and end status of the Korean War.
>Maybe when they're exposed to cunts, it's actually a bunch of Australians impersonating Americans.
Confirmed for lost. See what I did there? I did something retarded then claimed that I won. Am I American yet?
>B-but yor movies brainwash them!
>Viets don't have sympathy for you honest! You are evil EVIL
I remember when I was 16 and generalized whole countries based on my online interactions too.
>tfw never be child soldier in wartorn country
I'm 23 and I've never even killed someone with a gun.
I'm barely American. Just kill me now, senpai.
>>B-but yor movies brainwash them!
I didn't say that.
>>Viets don't have sympathy for you honest! You are evil EVIL
I didn't say that, either.
>Calling others 16 after that much strawmanning.
Except you guys do that all the time.
There was a 0% chance of territorial defeat while US and allied forces were conducting a full combat mission. That is to say, there is no way the NVA/Vietcong could have taken over South Vietnam while US-led forces were there. They tried and failed spectacularly many times.
Your argument is that US forces being defeated was inevitable, which is factually incorrect.
The North and South signed a treaty agreeing to fuck off and leave each other alone. The North decided to wait until US combat forces left and then invade in violation of the treaty. That isn't a military defeat of the US by any stretch of the imagination. That is a political victory on their part.
The fact that you don't understand the different aspects of conflict shows how insanely intellectually dishonest you are.
>beat the shit out of someone
>someone else tells you to stop or else he'll join in on the fight
>meh it's not worth it and walk away
>LMAO YOU LOST XDDDD
You left out the part where you're shitty about it for the next 40 years.
Sure it does, the entire year prior the U.S. miltary brass had been telling the American people that the NVA/VC was on the run and on the verge of defeat, Tet completely changed the American public perception from that. Politically North Vietnam achieved everything it set out to do. Even though the U.S beat back the offensive, it couldn't convince the public of that fact making any victory completely meanngless
>Americans rush to this conversation everytime it rears its head
>Pretending you don't care
You're not fooling anybody
>And yet today Vietnam has the highest opinion of the US out of any country polled. That's called winning the long game without even knowing it.
Today Americans generally have a positive view of Britain and the British monarchy.
I guess the British Empire won the American Revolution.
Most Americans now also have a more positive view of Japan.
I guess Japan won World War 2.
You dumb nigger.
Throwing temper tantrums won't get you anywhere.
The truth is that Vietnam was the first major unconventional war post WWII and that the lea-in and aftermath did not produce sharply focused results. They were blurry as fuck for everyone, including North Vietnam.
>his fellow Australians throwing bitch fits all over this thread
Yeah, ok dude
I get it, you're upset that others are calling you out on your bullshit.
But you're still wrong.
Their main belief was that it was a colonial war and that France and then America were seeking to control them, which they successfully stopped from happening. So they won, and America lost.
More Americans like Putin than Obama.
Russia won the Cold War.
That must be why most of the world is now communist dictatorships.
Oh fucking wait nigger. The North Vietnamese political victory ultimately didn't last because their patron and political ideology collapsed around the world.
Every war America has been in has been an attempt to gain control over a country/area.
Anyway that's just what Vietnamese believed they were fighting against and in the end achieved their goal. From their perspective, they won
That's false though.
It's really easy to make shit up. Try saying something that's factually true.
At this point all you're doing is arguing against the FACT that communism ultimately failed.
China is still communist and is more the world's second largest economy, projected to be the largest by 2030.
>the US doesnt want to directly control sovereign nations
China isn't communist. The party calls itself communist but admits that it is not in terms of actual policy.
You'd know that if you knew a single thing about basic geopolitical affairs.
You just proved his point. Not one of those countries is a sovereign territory of the US.
You don't even understand what the world "directly" means.
hi im totally american and definitely not a foreigner. america lost vietnam BECAUSE AMERICA IS GAY LMAO AMERICA NEEDS TO BE DIVIDED BETWEEN ENGLAND CANADA MEXICO AND AUSTRALIA WE LOST VIETNAM IM 100% AMERICAN NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY NONAMERICAN OH NO
australia rocks and is the voice of reason itt btw
You can't win wars......hell you can't even finish wars. Why haven't you conquered the North yet? South could do it without our help now but they won't. Maybe Best Korea truly is Best.
>China isn't communist because I say so
China doesn't even really consider itself communist. It just titular at this point. You're essentially in disagreement with the vast majority of political experts around the world.
Alright let's recap what happened
U.S. Pulls out asking as NV leavers SV alone
U.S. Troops leave SV
NV invades and annexes SV
Saying its a loss is like saying Switzerland lost WW2. They weren't involved in the war. (in which said territory was taken)
Holy motherfucking shit you're stupid. "Sovereign territory of ____" means that the area in question falls under the sovereignty of _____.
Really not difficult to understand Pedro.