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Do Americans really believe they won the Vietnam war?

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Do Americans really believe they won the Vietnam war?
>>
>>51086359
> thinking the Vietnam war had clear cut winners and losers

It wasn't like WWII you ignorant colonial.
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>>51086368
>the entire US military was defeated by a bunch of brown, rice field dwelling manlets with sticks
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>>51086437
YOU LITERALLY CAN NOT, I REPEAT, CAN NOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP
>>
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>>51086437
In all seriousness we did lose. It was a war we were never going to win in the first place. The army only accepts unconditional surrender as victory and there was no way you were going to get that from a guerrilla force.
>>
>>51086368
Yea, there were winners. USA lost. End of discussion.
>>
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>>51086437
>>51086359
>>51086499
>The entire Australian military was defeated by tall, flightless birds
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>>51086516
USA lost what exactly?
>>
>>51086526
tbf they are vicious little bastards

You laugh about it now but just wait until they evolve the ability to fly. They'll come for you too
>>
>>51086547
the war
>>
>>51086359

11 years in a "quagmire" of bureaucratic and economic indecision meant to keep China inside it's own borders.

It was never meant to be won. And Vietnam wasn't even the enemy. It was the Chinese.
>>
>>51086437
> the entire US military

You mean well under a majority of it?
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>>51086368
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
>Result - North Vietnamese victory
>Withdrawal of American-led forces from Indochina
>Communist governments take power in South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia
>South Vietnam is annexed by North Vietnam
>No clear cut winners and losers.
>MFW this is what Americans actually believe.
>>
>>51086516
That's not even what happened. Leave it to a Nazi offspring to be a huge fucking revisionist.
>>
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>>51086359
Well we didn't lose it all by ourselves we had a lot of help from you and your kiwi hand puppets
>>
>>51086526
>Confusing an actual military campaign with an animal culling
>Thinking that not culling animals is the same as losing a global conflict
Americans, ladies and gentlemen
>>
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>>51086549
You're at a club and this guy slaps your girl on the ass, what do you do?
>>
>>51086561
It seems it was France actually))
>>
>>51086573
The war ended in 1973 under the status quo that existed before the war. That is a concrete fact. 2 years after the war ended, North Vietnam decided to invade and take over South Vietnam.

And yet today Vietnam has the highest opinion of the US out of any country polled. That's called winning the long game without even knowing it.
>>
>>51086610
I pretend I didn't see anything and leave without a fuss. She belongs to him now.
>>
>>51086359
You know Australia fought alongside the US in Vietnam, right?
>>
>>51086557
How did we lose the war?
>>
>>51086670
by not winning
>>
>>51086619
>The war ended in 1973
>Implying you didn't stay until 1975
>And yet today Vietnam has the highest opinion of the US out of any country polled
Which is what you get when people without the internet aren't exposed to what you shits are really like.
>>
>>51086649
Yeah, but Australia can admit that the US-led forces lost.
>>
>>51086682
this
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What are you guys talking about? They totally won the war.
>>
>>51086693
>Vietnam has no internet
Oogoombo please. If street shitters can have Internet than Vietnamese can too.

It's probably faster and costs less than in Australia too
>>
>>51086693
> Which is what you get when people without the internet aren't exposed to what you shits are really like.
That's the exact opposite of what happened.
>>
>>51086977
>>Vietnam has no internet
Except I didn't say they don't have any at all. Good strawmanning, though.
>>51087023
Not really. Not many of them around, so they don't all know you're cunts.
>>
>>51086734
> says the country that got fucked in the asshole multiple times in wars they started

>>51086715
Lost how? Certainly not tactically. And forces don't lose politically, governments do. There is a difference.
>>
>>51087053
You haven't made a single valid point or argument accounting for why the Vietnamese love the US despite the fact that they have been exposed to our media (i.e. tv and movies primarily) for quite a long time.
>>
>>51087056
>Lost how? Certainly not tactically.
Yes, we all know. More Vietnamese died than US-led forces. But if KDRs were all that mattered in wars then by that retarded logic the British won the American revolution and the South won the American Civil War.
>And forces don't lose politically, governments do. There is a difference.
Not really. The forces are just a tool or puppet of the government acting on its behalf. Their successes and failures are intertwined. I realise you're not going to concede this, anyway. But you'll be stewing about it for hours to come because you know I'm right.
>>
>>51087053
>>51087053
>Not many of them around, so they don't all know you're cunts.
Millions of Viets live in the U.S. And recently the opposite has been happening. Soldiers from both sides have actually made up for the most part.

Maybe when they're exposed to cunts, it's actually a bunch of Australians impersonating Americans.
>>
>>51087077
Yes I did. They're exposed to your movies and shows, not to the people. Your media is tolerable, but desu you're horrible people.
>>
>>51087095
The NVA/Vietcong didn't makes any gains though. They were never able to take additional territory while US combat forces were in the country. They prevented themselves (North Vietnam) from being taken over and the US and others prevented South Vietnam from being taken over *during the course of the actual war*. That is a pretty textbook stalemate, not significantly unlike the beginning and end status of the Korean War.
>>
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>>51087117
>Maybe when they're exposed to cunts, it's actually a bunch of Australians impersonating Americans.
>IRL proxies
Confirmed for lost. See what I did there? I did something retarded then claimed that I won. Am I American yet?
>>
>>51087162
You mean where you leave before you lose so you don't have to say that you officially lost?
>>
>>51087124
>B-but yor movies brainwash them!
>Viets don't have sympathy for you honest! You are evil EVIL
I remember when I was 16 and generalized whole countries based on my online interactions too.
>>
>>51087124
Australians are the same as americans except with an unintelligible accent
>>
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>>51086359
>tfw never be child soldier in wartorn country

I'm 23 and I've never even killed someone with a gun.

I'm barely American. Just kill me now, senpai.
>>
>>51087171
Nope, you're actually quite Australian in that regard
>>
>>51087208
>>B-but yor movies brainwash them!
I didn't say that.
>>Viets don't have sympathy for you honest! You are evil EVIL
I didn't say that, either.
>Calling others 16 after that much strawmanning.
>>51087233
Except you guys do that all the time.
>>
>>51087197
There was a 0% chance of territorial defeat while US and allied forces were conducting a full combat mission. That is to say, there is no way the NVA/Vietcong could have taken over South Vietnam while US-led forces were there. They tried and failed spectacularly many times.

Your argument is that US forces being defeated was inevitable, which is factually incorrect.

The North and South signed a treaty agreeing to fuck off and leave each other alone. The North decided to wait until US combat forces left and then invade in violation of the treaty. That isn't a military defeat of the US by any stretch of the imagination. That is a political victory on their part.

The fact that you don't understand the different aspects of conflict shows how insanely intellectually dishonest you are.
>>
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>>51087304
Way to completely miss the point
>>
>>51087339
>Pretend to win a war you lost
>Call others dishonest
>>51087464
How?
>>
>This thread
>>
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>beat the shit out of someone
>someone else tells you to stop or else he'll join in on the fight
>meh it's not worth it and walk away

>LMAO YOU LOST XDDDD
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>>51087539
You left out the part where you're shitty about it for the next 40 years.
>>
>>51087339

War is politics, if a military victory (Tet) fails to bring about a political victory then the victory itself is meaningless.
>>
we had bigger fish to deal with you idiot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
>>
SOME FOLKS ARE BORN
MADE TO WAVE THE FLAG
>>
not our fault the south vietnamese couldn't fight for shit
you know in 1975 they outnumbered the north 3:1 and had both land and air superiority?
>>
>>51087587
Tet was completely defensive on the part of US led forces. It was the NVA/VC on the offensive then.

Your argument doesn't even apply there.
>>
>>51087578
nobody in USA cares
>>
>>51087692
America is a war culture, of course you care.
>>
>>51087644

Sure it does, the entire year prior the U.S. miltary brass had been telling the American people that the NVA/VC was on the run and on the verge of defeat, Tet completely changed the American public perception from that. Politically North Vietnam achieved everything it set out to do. Even though the U.S beat back the offensive, it couldn't convince the public of that fact making any victory completely meanngless
>>
>>51087729
>Let me tell you about you're country
It's funny how little you know about the US despite living in it.
>>
>>51087729
nobody cares
nobody wanted us to join the war at the time, everyone wanted us to leave
in 1967, 2 in 3 americans said we made a mistake ever joining vietnam
>1967
>>
>>51087729
> Chinese proxy detected
Your English is a dead giveaway.
>>
>>51087776
"Let me tell you about your country" doesn't work when I'm apparently also talking about my country.
>>
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>>51087692
>Americans rush to this conversation everytime it rears its head
>Pretending you don't care
You're not fooling anybody
>>
>>51086359
>Do Americans really believe they won the Vietnam war?
>Kangaroo education

We did. This is a documentary about how it happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8MrJoYZz2Y
>>
we had shit allies Tbh
>>
>>51087942
I have absolutely no doubt that the first minute of that video is exactly how Americans believe the Vietnam War happened.
>>
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>>51086619
>And yet today Vietnam has the highest opinion of the US out of any country polled. That's called winning the long game without even knowing it.

Today Americans generally have a positive view of Britain and the British monarchy.

I guess the British Empire won the American Revolution.

Most Americans now also have a more positive view of Japan.

I guess Japan won World War 2.

You dumb nigger.
>>
>>51087304
Except we don't. We refute your asinine claims, and you guys refuse to accept it, and resort to memeing.

See: your post
>>
Americans are so fucking poorly educated about Vietnam. Most of them think Hanoi is filled with Maccas now
>>
>>51088023
No but that's how WWII happened, we are still waiting for our annual thank you card from the queen and the feeble Brit government. Only one month left for 2015.
>>
>>51088101
Actually most of them probably have no idea what Hanoi even is
>>
>>51086437
>>51086499

we were there too dumbass
>>
>>51088130
yeah and we have no problem admitting that we lost
>>
>>51088101
It's a fact that the Vietnamese love the US though. Annual polling consistently reflects that.
>>
>>51088038
If either were more powerful than the US today, then you'd be right.
>>
>>51088047
No, you do it all the time. Lying will not change the truth.
>>
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>>51088101
Throwing temper tantrums won't get you anywhere.
>>
>tfw Vietnam was the first war Australia lost
Fucking thanks, seppos, ruining our record
>>
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>>51088203
>this desperate logic
>>
>>51088130
*they're
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>>51088203
>>
>>51088210
The truth is that Vietnam was the first major unconventional war post WWII and that the lea-in and aftermath did not produce sharply focused results. They were blurry as fuck for everyone, including North Vietnam.
>>
>>51088218
>Throwing temper tantrums won't get you anywhere.
>Throws temper tantrums over Vietnam war
>>
>>51088228
Our record of never dogging our mates remains intact at least
>>
>>51088203
China is more powerful than Britain now

Ergo, China won the Opium War. Your logic makes no sense, mate.
>>
>>51088210
Holu shit, are you being willfully ignorant? Literally take a look at this thread, and tell me all Australians aren't resorting to
>le dumb murricans
>le fat murricans
Maymays?
>>
>>51088275
I wasn't talking about the Vietnam war.
>>
>>51088269
> says the guy who hasn't said a single relevant thing in the thread

No surprise coming from a shemale.
>>
>>51088301
Show me where I said they aren't. Go on.
All I did was stated something that you guys keep doing everytime one of these threads comes up.
>>
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>>51088301
lol whatever you dumb fatass
>>
>>51088290
It's really not hard to understand nigger. The US and the West won the ideological war in the long term.

China did not.

That's the key difference.
>>
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>>51088277
>his fellow Australians throwing bitch fits all over this thread
Yeah, ok dude
>>
>>51086359
Well, since global communism collapsed, and Vietnam now cooperates pretty closely with the US and the Western world, I don't really see how it matters.
>>
>>51088379
>Someone says something that disagrees with what I said
>They're having a bitchfit
Yeah, ok dude
>>
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>>51088317
I get it, you're upset that others are calling you out on your bullshit.

But you're still wrong.
>>
>>51088413
We're having a pointless shitfight. Go away.
>>
>>51086359
Do Australians really believe they are an independent country?

I mean they don't even have their own head of state.
>>
>>51088413
Their main belief was that it was a colonial war and that France and then America were seeking to control them, which they successfully stopped from happening. So they won, and America lost.
>>
>>51088357
More Americans like Putin than Obama.

Russia won the Cold War.
>>
>>51088430
That must be why most of the world is now communist dictatorships.

Oh fucking wait nigger. The North Vietnamese political victory ultimately didn't last because their patron and political ideology collapsed around the world.
>>
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>>51088451
Red herring.
>>
>>51088418
Nope, I was infact refering to Australians resorting to ad hominems.

See: this thread
>>
>>51088472
Nice false equivalency, comparing France's colonial ambitions to the US non-colonial ambitions.
>>
>>51088496
Listen you Chinese faggot, you're a in bait/troll/banter thread. That post is abso-fucking-lutely par for the course here.
>>
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>>51088521
>US non-colonial ambitions
>>
>>51088521
Every war America has been in has been an attempt to gain control over a country/area.

Anyway that's just what Vietnamese believed they were fighting against and in the end achieved their goal. From their perspective, they won
>>
>>51088476
That's false though.

It's really easy to make shit up. Try saying something that's factually true.

At this point all you're doing is arguing against the FACT that communism ultimately failed.
>>
>>51088560
Oh, so now you're claiming the US wanted to directly govern Vietnam as a sovereign territory.

This is why you can't be taken seriously.
>>
>>51088586
>directly
Nah, but you almost understand now.
>>
>>51088560
Soon Canada.
>>
>>51088586
>he's actually serious
>>
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>>51088495
>>51088566
China is still communist and is more the world's second largest economy, projected to be the largest by 2030.
>>
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VIETNAMESE

PRIDE

WORLDWIDE

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
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>>51088586
>land of the free
>>
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>>51088586
>the US doesnt want to directly control sovereign nations

555-come-on-now
>>
>>51086359
Austalians lost it together with Americans. Back to school with you.
>>
>>51088658
china is communist just by name
>>
>>51088702
Sorry master.
>>
>>51088702
Americans are the only ones who think they won though. We at least know we lost
>>
>>51088658
China isn't communist. The party calls itself communist but admits that it is not in terms of actual policy.

You'd know that if you knew a single thing about basic geopolitical affairs.

>>51088698
You just proved his point. Not one of those countries is a sovereign territory of the US.

You don't even understand what the world "directly" means.
>>
>>51088702
It was an American led coalition.

The loss is on their backs, and their backs only.
>>
>>51088723
You're worse than the French. Why are Aussies so worthless?
>>
>>51088742
Please don't get upset my friend
>>
>>51088742
>You're worse than the French. Why are Aussies so worthless?

Says the country that retreated from Vietnam
>>
>>51088742
We're worse than the French because we live in reality?
>>
>>51088736
That sentence is completely contradictory.
>>
>>51086359
We fought with America.
But america out of fucking war...
>>
hi im totally american and definitely not a foreigner. america lost vietnam BECAUSE AMERICA IS GAY LMAO AMERICA NEEDS TO BE DIVIDED BETWEEN ENGLAND CANADA MEXICO AND AUSTRALIA WE LOST VIETNAM IM 100% AMERICAN NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY NONAMERICAN OH NO
australia rocks and is the voice of reason itt btw
;^)
>>
>>51088902
You can't win wars......hell you can't even finish wars. Why haven't you conquered the North yet? South could do it without our help now but they won't. Maybe Best Korea truly is Best.
>>
i'm not sure how we could have won

it's the same thing in the middle east, you can't force them

if it were 500 years ago we'd just kill all of them
>>
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>>51088733
>China isn't communist because I say so
>>
>>51088733
>Not one of those countries is a sovereign territory of the US.

what

is this a meme or something?
>>
>>51089005
>if it were 500 years ago we'd just kill all of them
This is what's really needed.
>>
>>51089014
China doesn't even really consider itself communist. It just titular at this point. You're essentially in disagreement with the vast majority of political experts around the world.
>>
Vietnam doesn't have enough vidya games so America clearly lost that one
>>
>>51089051
Economically he's right, but culturally..
they have a unique set up
>>
>>51089026
Are you seriously fucking claiming that Colombia or Panama or Ecuador or whatever is a part of the United States?

Nigger, how fucking dumb are you?
>>
Alright let's recap what happened

U.S. Pulls out asking as NV leavers SV alone

U.S. Troops leave SV

NV invades and annexes SV

Saying its a loss is like saying Switzerland lost WW2. They weren't involved in the war. (in which said territory was taken)
>>
>>51086359
China's loss in Vietnam a few years later was actually much more clear-cut than ours, which I find sort of strange.
>>
>>51089086
but sovereign territory implies it is independent

it is a sovereign territory of the US
it is an independent territory of the US
>>
>>51089179
wait a fucking second

im mixing of and from again

yes i am a retarded spic and deserve to be called as such
>>
>>51089179
Holy motherfucking shit you're stupid. "Sovereign territory of ____" means that the area in question falls under the sovereignty of _____.

Really not difficult to understand Pedro.
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