>murrifats and auslards will defend this

>>35168881
What do Aussies have to do with it?

>>35168881
Defend what exactly? nuking the Japs? They had it coming and they knew it. Besides, we're friends now, we give them western culture and they give us fucked up cartoon porn. it's a win-win.

>>35168929

Australians were part of the Pacific war effort and saw many of their boys savagely cut down by Japs and their own borders threatened

they were all for us giving Japan the nuclear D

>>35168881
of course

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>>35168881
>Finland will defend this

>>35168881
tfw Canada was part of the Manhattan project

>>35168881
It saved many lives

>>35168881
ameribombs did nothing wrong tbh

>>35168881
Conventional bombings killed much more people in WW2. All we did was used two big fancy big bomb to intimidate them, which in the end led to less deaths than what prolonged warfare would have allowed.

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>>35168881
Australia had nothing to do with it

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>>35168881
Side 1: Invade a country and lose countless of our own soldiers

Side 2: Drop a big fucking bomb on a city thinking Japs are smart enough to give up. Don't. Drop another big bomb from a plane called the Enola GAY and laugh at the permashadows and cancer for the next 70 years

I'll go with side 2.

>>35168956
Japan never export anime porn for the west.
you guys are just pirate.

NIP ARR ROOK SAME

BLAST ARR ROOK SAME

>>35169023
>allied victory
lol

>>35168881
You see Finland, you have to do things like this to win a war

Many more American and Japanese lives would have bee lost had we invaded normally.
The Nukes saved lives, simple as that. Is it a great thing? No it's horrible, but it's war. Maybe if Finland ever had to do anything significant you'd understand that.

same thread erryday?

you arr shamefurrrrr

japan was a delusional brainwashed country(sort of like america today) they were brainwashed to believe their emperor was a living god

they wouldnt surrender unless we wasted 500k+ allied lives invading

bombing was better who cares about brainwashed japs who all rook same? :^))

>>35169112
war crime is just war crime.

>>35169095
>kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people
>dis iz tha brize of freedumb :DDDD

>amerifats actually will defend this

>>35168881
Finns will defend this war crime in which they killed more civillians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad

>>35169146

I know what you mean, you guys should have thought about it before violating peace and attacking us before declaring war

>>35169135
>pot calling the kettle black

but thanks for supporting us mohammed

>>35168881

You're Goddamned right.

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>>35169146

>>35169135
>bombing and invading were the only options
>purposely killing all those innocents is ever acceptable

Anglos confirmed for nazis

>>35168881
>fins will defend their fellow chinkymen

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>>35169162
>Implying a conventional invasion wouldn't have resulted in more carnage

>>35169146
except of what you japs did in China was on a completely different level than even that of the Nazi's. You sick fucks. But it was interesting to read about.

Especially how you'd berry chinks in the ground up to their upper thighs, spray sauce on dicks and let the dogs loose to get dem cocktail weenies.

>>35169168
war crime is just war crime.
stop justify it.

>>35169196
after 4 years of bloody war with the US, 5-6 with Britain and over a decade of war with China, and suddenly getting this massive weapon, what the fuck do you think they're going to do?
Obviously use it. It was the thing to do, throw the biggest thing you can at the enemy. It ensured an unconditional surrender. Invading Japan would have taken at least another year, and the soldiers were fanatical and wouldnt surrender.
It also showed the Russians look what we have, fuck u too.

>>35169135
>muh 500 million marines

There is no evidence that this estimate is true. Military planners predicted more like 40k. Your number is pure Truman propaganda

>>35169241

no

blurring your porn is the real war crime you sociopath

>>35169209
>impplying a conventional invasion was even necessary
>implying tat targeting innocents is ever acceptable

Japan was already fucked by the time nukes were used

>>35169146
Japs commit war crime. America just uses necessary force.

>>35169213
war crime is just war crime.…

>>35169146
Using advanced technology in war isn't war crime, with that logic if one big native tribe in Latin America is genociding another tribe, attacking them with grenades and automatic rifles would be war crime.
Atomic bombings were THE BEST it could be done that way, Japanese then were batshit crazy, they didn't have problem being annihilates to 0 just to not surrender. Shock and awe their ass = surrender + (if I remember correctly) 1 million lives saves in case of invasion.

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>>35169241
Don't even try to equate us you delusion aspie cuck.

The Japanese government fucking bloodlusted their people to an insane level and went out of their way to be brutal to their conquest.

If America had invaded Japan conventionally the bloodshed would have outnumbered the rest of the war in the pacific. Nuking put you gooks in your place with less blood shed on both sides

>>35169263

>Only 40k casualties

It took more than that to take Okinawa.

>>35169281
>killing is just killing
>Shooting someone in war time is the same thing as torturing someone during war time

you japs are retarded

>>35169279
The japs fought to the last man for every tiny shithole island in their control. If we had attacked their homeland the war would've dragged on and the fighting would've been brutal

>>35168881
HERE COMES THE BOOM

>>35169299
>>35169318
many people got radiation effect...
many people still suffering by that bomb.

stop justify it.

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Notice how foreigners can't present any alternatives to the bombs, and must resort to ''but muh feelings.''

Thank you based Truman.

>>35169358
Invasion wasn't even necessary, Japan was fucked, the USA was just being faggots because they didn't get "muh unconditional surrender" so they killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people

I guess its okay when we do it though :DDD

>>35169394
Many people got lost limps from automatic rifles
Many people are still suffering from your rifles

Stop justifying it.

Reminder that Japan surrendered because the Russians broke the non-aggression pact and attacked Japanese forces in Manchuria.
The atomic bombs were both completely unnecessary.

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>>35169396
>biggest bomb ever dropped in war came from a plane with large GAY letters

We really are the greatest country ever.

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I like 'em extra crispy

>>35169399
Japan wouldn't surrender, the Axis had to be put in their fucking place.

The Japs all had this romanticized notion of war, and those delusions would've persisted if the Japs didnt learn their fucking lesson

>>35169394
> many people still suffer
Good

>>35169430
reminder Japs didn't surrender before bombs were dropped

and even if that was true what you say (protip: its not) we did it for science.

>>35169318
>muh conquest

Lel holy shit there are still people who will repeat this myth

If Japan wanted conquest why didn't they keep the chunk of Russia they occupied after the allied intervention?

Why didn't they keep Germany's pacific possessions after ww1?

Both sides contributed to the war in China, and people on both the Japanese and Chinese side tried to stop it, it's not as clear cut as the "muh evil savage Japanese" bullshit, not that the Japanese army didn't commit horrible crimes

>>35169399
>>35169430

Your Wikipedia level knowledge of this conflict is showing, please go back to worshiping the queen or whatever.

>>35169394
And? Japs deserved it after China.

The firebombing raids that were occurring over Japan were hardly a good alternative to what was happening here. Pilots were complaining about their entire underside of their plane smelling like human flesh, most vomiting or losing consciousness when realising why.

The nukes might not have been good for Japan, but they were offered surrender after all of these firebomb raids occurred and refused. Far more people died to firebomb raids already, plenty more would continue to die if the theatre involved marine assaults and it was only getting worse.

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>>35169461
The Soviets kicked their ass out of Russia and northern china, thats why

>>35169394

I hope the first thing China does when it invades Japan in 2047, is rape your entire country the way you massacred and raped the chinese in WWII.

Poetic Jap Justice

>>35169452
>Japan wouldn't surrender

Sure the would, people in government already wanted a surrender even before the nukes were dropped or before the firebombing, it was the military and people like Tojo that wanted to keep fighting

Besides, what was Japan going to do? They were hopeless and trapped in their islands, their industry couldn't survive without foreign imports

>>35169516
>government already wanted a surrender even before the nukes were dropped or before the firebombing
[citation needed]

>>35169428
ive never justifying it.

unlike americans.

>muh Hiroshima
>muh Nagasaki

the firebombings of Tokyo killed almost twice as much.

and i will defend those too, nips are subhuman

>>35169503
No they ddidn't, the Japanese withdrew in the early 1920s

>>35169459
>reminder Japs didn't surrender before bombs were dropped
... nor did they surrender before the Russians attacked Manchuria.

If bombs killing a lot of people was going to cause them to surrender, why didn't they surrender after the fire bombing of Tokyo? Or after the first atomic bomb, for that matter?

>we did it for science
You did it to intimidate the soviets. Killing innocent civilians to incite fear in another country. America, home of the brave.

>>35169516
Do you have any idea how desperately Japan fought for insignificant shithole islands in their control?

They would've gone fucking insane if we had marched on their homeland

>>35169548
>ameriblubbers in charge of reading comprehension

Invading was not even necessary in the first place, you're making up this false dichotomy between nuking them and invading them

>>35169516
>people in government already wanted a surrender even before the nukes were dropped or before the firebombing
Christ Canadians are worse than us at history. Even after we nuked them twice it was still a massively controversial decision for the Japanese to surrender and it almost didn't happen.

>>35169263
Were you dropped on your head as a baby?
America made 500,000 purple hearts in preparation.
Your military is still using the purple hearts that were made for the invasion of Japan.

>>35169299
It was also lucky it was used then, when atomic bombs weren't anything extremely special.
Had one been used even ten years later, it would have been on a whole new level of destruction.

>>35169598

I don't even know where they get this shit from, I've seen it pop up before and it seems to be little more than lying.

>>35169582
No one cares if a few japs died weeb shit

>>35169437
But it was named after his mom.

>>35169598
Obviously it was hard, it doesn't mean that the higher ups in government like Japans war council weren't already considering surrender because they knew it was hopeless

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>>35169536
>caring about some tiny tentacle rape nips on the other side of the earth

Nope.jpg

You mad McArthur fucked your emperors wife then made him take this picture immediately after?

>>35169674
>the higher ups in government like Japans war council weren't already considering surrender because they knew it was hopeless
[citation needed]

>>35169540
>Australia is best ally
Would fight in the jungles with any day.

>>35169722
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/31.pdf

>>35168881
Bombs happened. This thread won't change it.

Humans are doomed. This thread won't change it.

>>35169765
Page and location?

>>35169736
as long as it aint 'nam

>>35169722
They were, of course publically they had a no surrender attitude but privately they knew the were fucked and the wanted a conditional surrender. They wanted the soviets to mediate their surrender and when the soviets invaded Manchuria their only option was gone, they had no choice but to surrender.

Even if the bombs contributed towards Japan's surrender which is debatable, they still weren't justified because they specifically targeted innocents. The Americans knew that shitloads od innocent people were going to die and they did it anyway.

>>35169665
That's pretty gay.

And incest.

>>35169665
you're not funny faggot

Let's be honest here faggots. The nuclear bombs killed less and more humanely than most of the conventional bombing raids that are NOT considered war crimes to you guys.

>>35169823
We had a big American vote and we all decided to kill a bunch of innocents. Fuck you if you don't it. I'm leaving now to go to my Friday night American meeting. Eat more dicks, faggot.

>>35169791
It's not a very long document...
If you really need it in one simple soundbite, try the second paragraph on page 2.

>>35169674

This is from my book on the Okinawa battle.

>many in positions of authority in Japan, including Emperor Hirohito, realized the war was lost and urgently desired to make peace

>The actual rulers of Japan in the spring and summer of 1945 were the ''big six'' members of the powerful Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, or SCDW.

>They included seventy-eight-year-old Baron Kantaro Suzuki, a retired admiral and a hero of the Russo-Japanese war who had taken office as Japan's new premier on April 7. Suzuki privately favored peace, but, as premier he was little more than a puppet of the warlords.....Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo was also a peace advocate, but he was kept silent by fear of reprisals from the militants.


>Suzuki and Togo were often outvoted by the other four members of the SCDW

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>>35169895
Yes very humane :DDD


Conventional or not targeting innocents is wrong, this is basic shit bro

>>35169947
>innocents
there's this thing called TOTAL WAR, not sure if you heard of it. Everyone on that island was helping the war effort.

>>35169967
i doubt infants were helping the war effort

>>35169947

there were military installations present

sucks about the collateral damage

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>>35169947
>muh burns
I don't think you know this but in WW2 precision bombing was not a thing.
To get the military bases in both hiroshima and nagasaki we would have had to carpet bomb the cities to insure their destruction.
Innocents would have been killed regardless, if we were targeting innocents with the bombs we would have bombed Tokyo (which were busy getting fire bombed but no one ever complains about that.)

>>35169989
Mitsubishi and Japanese Second Army Group were though

>>35168976
So were brits but we always get forgotten in the pacific theatre ;_;

>>35169998
>>35170049

I agree the bombs were needed but you guys are being dumb. There were probably better military targets, the goal was definitely to shock them by killing lots of people.

>these faggots who think war is clean, tidy, and precise like knitting a sweater

dumb fucks

it's an atom bomb, it makes a mess

it needed to be used

>>35169967
So if the Japanese bombed San Diego and San Francisco, it would be okay because those people were helping the war effort?

>inb4 happy that San Diego and San Francisco are gone

>>35170095

oh well

beggars can't be choosers, we called the shots at that point

no surrender means open game

>>35170084

Wiki says 144k dead gooks in Burma.

gj mate

>>35170049
It isn't relevant, end doesn't justify the means

>>35169967
Total war is wrong

>>35170113

Not really, because America never attacked Japan first and had no real intentions of war in 1941. This was comeuppance, not eye for an eye.

>>35170113
I don't think you understand that Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving cities today and are in no way gone.

>>35170139
>had no real intention for war

Maybe not publically, but fdr certainly wanted to get involved

>>35170235

I love all of these "ifs" and "probablies" you're tossing around

We're discussing facts, not conjecture

ITT:

>Muh historical hindsight with full access to information on both sides.
>Muh Japanese didn't do nuffin to deserve it despite Nanking, Unit 731, Bataan Death March, among others.
>Think of the chiildreeeeennnn, while ignoring the Japanese literally bayoneted young Chinese/Korean babies FOR FUN.
>Not realizing we were dealing with a people who literally would run into machinegun fire because they legitimately believed the Emperor would protect them from bullets.

The Japanese were like the Muslims of that era who began a horrific Jihad to take over all of Asia. It's so easy to pass judgment when you take everything out of context but it was a 100% justifiable decision at the time, reflected by the fact that when polled something like 92% of Americans said the atomic bombing was a good thing in 1950. Even now you can't say it was 100% wrong unless you ignore all of the facts and the Japanese mindset/wider world picture at the time. Soviet Japan would have sucked and knowing the Japanese and how obsessed they get with things, probably would have seen more Japanese dead than the nukes combined anyway.

But this Canadian would defend ISIS taking over the Middle East, then launching an invasion of Europe to rape and murder little European babies, and then get so buttflustered when the Europeans nuke Mecca in return.

>>35170136
okay I get it, so your whole argument has boiled down into "War is wrong" this no longer has anything to do with the nuclear bombs, so why are you fixating on them so much?

>>35170235

Then blame that polio ridden weasel for drafting millions of Americans for a war they never wanted.

>>35170251
Yes, and FDR wanted the USA to get involved, I'd he didn't want to get involved he certainly didn't show it

>>35170260
No, my argument is that targeting noncombatants is wrong

>>35169736
>tfw fighting side by side for nearly 75 years

>>35170302
Wake up man, the nukes were not the only bombs that killed innocents, and certainly not the worst.

>>35170302

>Total war is wrong
>Other country declares total war on you and sees nothing wrong with killing/terrorizing your civilians.
>You're supposed to just sit there and be considerate of theirs while they do that to your own.

Topcuck.

>>35170335
I mean in any circumstance, I'm only talking about nukes here because thats what the thread is about

>>35170302

I don't care, Japan violated a truce, stabbed us in the back, attacked us and dragged us into an ugly and violent war. Sponsored and supported by the people and factories that got fried in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, which is why you'll find no pity in the states, China, the Phillippines, Korea, Australia, Indonesia, or anywhere that had a part in the war and saw the suffering inflicted by Imperial Japan for almost a decade.

It's fine to play devil's advocate and all but they're still the devil.

>>35168881
Defend what? We can shoot down bombers easily.

>>35170370
World War II was a brutal war. This isn't news to anyone.

>>35169516
>Before dropping bombs
>We ask you that you surrender or we will drop a devastating weapon on your populace
>"Fuck off americans!"
>Drop first bomb
>We ask that you surrender or we will drop another and you now have evidence we have such bombs
>"F-fuck off americans!"
>Drop second bomb
>We can keep them coming
>"We surrender"

We gave them their chance.

>>35170254
>Japanese soldiers were responsible for Nanking, therefore Japanese civilians deserve to die
Are you pretending to be a psychopath because you think it's cool and edgy or something?

>>35170360
What the enemy does isn't important, deliberately killing non combatants is never justifiable

>>35170376
>they do bad things so that means we can do equally bad things

Literally the morality of a 6 year old

>>35169146
That's what you get for trying to invade us. Please don't try again mate.

>>35170095
> the goal was definitely to shock them by killing lots of people.

Don't even need to kill many people. The nukes showed that the Allies had the power to wipe every nip off the face of the earth with far less effort than a traditional invasion. Even the most fanatical warlord is gonna realise he doesn't have a chance at that point.

>>35170302
Where is your manufactured outrage for the Allied carpet bombings in Germany, the German bombings of London, the Nazi treatment of Russians during occupation, the Japanese rape of Nanking, the Japanese biological experiments on Chinese, the fire bombing of Tokyo, etc, etc, etc.

A lot of shitty things happened in WW2 that were just as bad as this and people like you are silent. There was no possible scenario for invading Japan that did not involve shit tons of civilians dying or suffering on top of the military casualties. This was the least shitty alternative and I don't give a fuck if your tiny mind is unable to comprehend this.

I can't believe people think Canadians are smarter and nicer than us.

>>35170254
>and then get so buttflustered when the Europeans nuke Mecca in return.
I'm not him, but yes, I certainl would disapprove of such a thing

>>35170430

uh yeah

that's how war works

the bomb droppings were completely tactical and served their purpose, ending the war and forcing unconditional surrender.

I don't think 6 year olds want to kill each other btw, that's an adult thing as far as I can tell

>>35169299
Based Greece. Thanks for helping us out in Korea.

>>35169807
It's always good when people think it was just America in Vietnam, I can just lump the hate onto them.

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>>35169187
Didn't think there really was a dancing version.

>>35169259
Canada is right as usual.

>>35170430
>deliberately killing non combatants is never justifiable
Name a single war where this has not happened in the history of everything.

If you want to be a pacifist that's totally OK but don't pretend that this act was somehow more inhumane and barbaric than any other war in the history of the world

>>35170421
>this is actually how it's taught in American schools

>>35170430

>What the enemy does isn't important, deliberately killing non combatants is never justifiable

Okay, then we should have made sure even more non-combatants indirectly died from starvation/firebombing and the Soviet/US/Chinese invasion and aftermath, because if millions of more of them die while defending Japan/die indirectly due to the consequences of the invasions, that is so much better than them losing a few hundred thousand.

>>35170518

Genghis Khan only poured molten silver down their throats

>>35170504
Other Canada is wrong though.

>>35170254
Japan committed horrible crimes, that doesn't excuse killing innocents on our part, whether its the bombings in Dresden or Tokyo or where ever

And no, Japan wasn't the evil conquering power any more than the European colonial empires were, Japan in the past had taken territory from various countries and given it up

>92% of Americans said it was okay that means it was

What's popular = what's right after all :DDD

>>35169888
Not trying to be, his mothers name was Enola gay.

>>35170518
Collateral damage is one thing, deliberately targeting non combatants is another, the vast majority of people who died in the various bombings of Japan were civilians

>>35170423
Not him but Hiroshima had the largest Army garrison on Japan.

>>35170489
we actually performed well in 'nam though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Long_Tan

>>35170534

I don't think war is okay. Who thinks people dying en masse is okay, ever. We're discussing this in context, not from a self-righteous moral high ground. We get it, you don't like people dying, that's cool. In the context of WW2, this was wholly, incontrovertibly, indubitably justified.

You work at a factory pumping out weapons, vehicles, etc. that go towards killing Americans, while living in a city surrounded by installations that shoot down Americans, and keep your gun shined and ready to kill Americans after they land on your shore, you get big spooky bomb dropped on you, the end

>>35170534

>Japan wasn't the evil conquering power any more than the European colonial empires were

Yeah, I kind of missed the part where the French and British conducted medical experiments on helpless restrained colonials and raped and murdered millions of colonials for fun in government-sanctioned and encouraged genocide programs. If you can provide evidence proving that both the British/French did things equally as bad as the Japanese, go ahead and produce your proofs.

>Japan in the past had taken territory from various countries and given it up

Been forced to give it up by other powers or risk war =/= Japanese being nice and giving it up.

>>35170575
Same with Britain and Germany and Italy and Russia and even France.

>>35170528
What ifs aren't important, the act itself was wrong

Invasion was not the only alternative, by the time nukes came around Japan was done, they had no allies and a practically dead industry

>>35170454
>Where is your manufactured outrage for the Allied carpet bombings in Germany, the German bombings of London, the Nazi treatment of Russians during occupation, the Japanese rape of Nanking, the Japanese biological experiments on Chinese, the fire bombing of Tokyo, etc, etc, etc.
You don't hear as much about those because no one defends any of them, apart from the occasional shitposter with a Japanese proxy.

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>>35170597
We should have another get together with the boys

>>35170534
>Japan wasn't the evil conquering power
Manchuria would like a word with you.
Korea would like a word with you.
Taiwan would like a word with you.
The Phillipines would like a word with you.

>>35170533
Pay no mind to the Frogs, if they could into war they would't be where they're at.

>>35170625

>What ifs aren't important.
>Invasion was not the only alternative when they were still refusing to surrender even after the shitshow at Okinawa.
>BUT WHAT IF THEY HAD SURRENDERED GUYS
>WHAT IF??????

Hypocrite.

>>35170625

Everyone here realizes Japan was boned, we're just discussing how the war could be won as quickly and cheaply as possible.

What's your alternative? Of course an invasion would be vastly more costly, it's hard to see how an extended bombing campaign could save more lives.

>>35170662
this is why im not afraid of an Indonesian invasion.
Australians are GOAT at killing gooks and nips

>>35170084
>So were brits but we always get forgotten in the pacific theatre ;_;
Because you didn't do shit. There's a reason why Australia has a defense pact with us, not you.

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>>35170662
Yeah. WW3 versus China best day of my life. Too bad Truman didn't let MAcArthur finish the job with the Chinks. We and the UN forces kicked their asses.

>>35170597
Well sure, because we actually trained in tropical conditions and knew how to move around a jungle, personally, I'll tag Vietnam as a win for us and the Kiwis, but not everyone will see it like that.

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>>35169023
>>35169135
>>35169208
>>35170084
>implying the bombings of H&N don't pale in comparison to the senseless destruction Great Britain inflicted upon the innocent German population during WWII

>>35170617
Japan was not forced to give up its captured territory after the intervention in Russia or WW1, they voluntarily withdrew

Perhaps European colonisation wasn't as brutal as Japans, but do you seriously think that barbarous acts and human experimentation never occurred?

>>35170622
Yes

>>35170616
The city centres were targeted, not the industry and not the ports, destroying military infrastructure and unavoidable collateral damage is one thing, destroying entire cities is another to kill and terrorise noncombatants is another

>>35170754

fuck that

if you do we get to as well since our K/D was so high

>>35170737
It's because Churchill stole soldiers from any nation he could and used them to throw at Germany. Things would probably be a little different if he pretended to care about his Pacific allies.

>>35170626
The fire bombings of Tokyo killed more people including civilians than the atomic bomb drops. If you want to be outraged about something be outraged about this.

Instead, like the angsty teenagers I'm sure you are, you fixate on these two events because they are big and flashy and edgy. And for that reason your opinion is rightly ignored.

>>35170793
No, we provided plenty of support for you, much more than you would expect, so we achieved our goal quite comfortably.

>>35170756
forgot link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28HhSdn_Nso

>>35169281
No. There is a moral difference between using a powerful weapon to end the war and having a couple guys engage in a highly publicized head chopping contest. wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword

>>35170795

This tbh, he basically left you and NZ to die.

>>35170665
Manchuria would rather live under their emperor than under the republic of China (which had no claim to Manchuria)

Do you really think that all of the European possessions wanted to stay part of their empires?

>>3517070T
>>35170708

They had no choice but surrender, and after the soviets broke their pact and invaded the Japanese realised that it would have to be an unconditional one

>>35170756
Japanese nuclear bombings and fire bombings killed more people but yes, Dresden was also wrong

>>35170817

We provided plenty of support for France

>>35170795
In Britain's defense they were barely able to defend their own shores and Australia is a long way away. Any country is naturally going to prioritize defending their own land over something on the other side of the planet.

>>35170855
>wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword

Oh dude what the fuck...that's sick.

>>35170862
Not to mention muh Gallipoli

>>35170767
>Perhaps European colonisation wasn't as brutal as Japans, but do you seriously think that barbarous acts and human experimentation never occurred?
Wait, so let's get this straight. Here >>35170430 you said
>>they do bad things so that means we can do equally bad things

>Literally the morality of a 6 year old

Now you are justifying it in the exact same way. Are you a 6 year old?

>>35170879
Totally agree, but he actually took soldiers from a country that wasn't his (since we were actually our own army in WW2), didn't inform Curtin about what he was doing, and used those ANZAC soldiers to fight under him. That's why he's a dick.

>>35170905
I'm not trying to justify it, Japanese and Europeans did bad things during their colonisation, though some good came out of it

>>35170799
>you shouldn't talk about this, because something arguably worse once happened
Uh huh.

The reason people debate the necessity of the atomic bombs and their role in influencing the Japanese surrender is because there is evidence on both sides and people hold a range of different views. Ever since it happened it has been argued about by people including historians and academics (all of whom are, apparently, 'angsty teenagers').
No one is saying that these are the worst events that have ever happened in human history. The fact that more people died in another situation does not mean that no one should ever talk about this.
If you're going to ignore someone's opinion purely on the basis that they're talking about the atomic bombings instead of other events, why the fuck are you even reading a thread about the atomic bombings?

>>35169461
they did keep germany's spots

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pacific_Mandate

>>35168881
The bombs needed to be dropped.

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>>35170902

It's okay, once we fuse together we can become a terrible abomination that will repel any threat. Picture related.

>>35170454
Canadians suck dick.

>>35170968
Some they did and some they didn't, for instance they returned Germany's possessions in China back to the Chinese

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>tfw you will never be a battle-hardened, scarred American GI coming ashore in Japan, running helter skelter through Japanese villages, busting down doorways and taking nubile and petite Japanese women and widows of the men you crushed underfoot, and ravage their vaginas savagely and powered by all of the images of your dead brothers left to rot on a stinking Pacific archipelago, as the women shriek and moan until they finally concede to your glorious white cock.

nukes ruined the fun

>>35170454
I'm not outraged, people do terrible things every day, I'm just stating that the atomic bombs were wrong and shouldn't have happened

Allied carpet bombings of Germany, German bombings, rape of Nanking, human experimentation, killing POWs, Russian treatment of Germans, mass rapes, etc are all wrong but not what the thread is about

People are also more likely to defend nuclear bombings of Japan than things like the Dresden bombing or the blitz as well

>>35170754
We were fighting commies in the jungles of Malaysia only a few years before Vietnam.
http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/malayan-emergency/

>>35171097
Don't worry, you still raped plenty of people.

>>35170942
Were you militarily colonial status back then? Considering he had the power to do that.

>>35171338

my only regret is that we probably didn't match your total

>>35171010
AUSMERICA RISE!!

>>35171346
Australia was an independent country then, m9.

>>35171097
>tfw you will never face war with real countries because war doesn't benefit economy, countries, companies and basically everyone

>>35171400
And how does british PM had the power to draw soldiers from Australia? That's colonial/protectorate status

>>35171346
No, not in WW2. In WW1 we were under the British Commonwealth forces, but in WW2 we fought with the New Zealanders as the ANZACs, independant from the British. Churchill had no lawful right to do what he did.

>>35171433
>And how does british PM had the power to draw soldiers from Australia?
Political manipulation and emotional blackmailing?

>>35171433
He didn't. He basically had his generals lie to Australian soldiers who were fighting in North Africa and told them to relocate to France to fight on the Western Front, Curtin only had a few forces return to Australia to fight in the Pacific and thought that was all of them. That's why it was a big deal a few years ago when we found Australian regiments who died in France.

When the fuck is Putin going to ally with China or something and invade Finland? I want Winter War 2: Electric Boogaloo before WW3 starts.

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>>35171564
The problem with that, is China doesn't want to ally with Putin. They're quite happy to take the Russian gold, though.

>>35171564

China is currently fraught with gold sickness and the profitability of allying with Russia simply isn't there

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Was the Empire right to blow up Alderaan?

How else were they to get the rebels to surrender?

>>35171564
>implying China needs/wants them

They'll wait until Russia is on its knees before they back up their childish land nabbing

>>35171661

Yes, it was a rebel base loaded with revolutionaries dead set on destroying the Empire. They earned their just desserts.

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>I will never be as weeb or idealistic as this canadian faggot

feels good man

>>35171771
Thanks mate, just making sure things are consistent, Sheev did nothing wrong

>>35171801

It's alright, he's probably a weedlisophical potlosipher who ruminates over how he'd make the world a perfect place

>>35170454
The difference between other bombings like Dresden is that everyone acknowledges they were fucking terrible and always express regret over them, but with the nukes all we hear about is "b-but muh 50 gorillian who would've died otherwise in an invasion."

It's like, yeah we know it would've been terrible if you'd firebombed or invaded the mainland, but the nukes were also pretty fucking dire yet no regret is ever expressed over them. It's always just edgelord amerilards say "b-b-but other bad things happened in the war too"

>>35171871

>expressing regret over necessities

men of principle don't do this

>>35171871
>bad things happen in war
Go figure, does that mean we're supposed to cry about using the available means to win? No, fuck off.

it looked cool

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>>35168881
I don't know how Japanese people can be so friendly with Americans after having been nuked with two atomic bombs.

At least they are friends now, which is good since I like seeing countries getting along.

>>35170616
m8 Germany's tactics of trying to bomb us brits into submission and terrorising the population is universally condemned but for some reason you yanks seem to think it's fine when you did it.

Everyone acknowledges that Dresden was a fucking shitemare and we never should have retaliated that way, just admit that bombing city centres was a bit naughty.

>>35171922

we picked up their country, shook a finger at them, and built them into a prime economy after the war, which is very charitable given the circumstances

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>>35170084
yeah, cause the brits were fucking embarrasing in the pacific

>Philippines
>force z
>singapore

>>35171932

As opposed to wat? Bombing their non-existent and/or empty military bases?

I'll take bombing manufacturing centers and installations with the added bonus of teaching those Jap cocks exactly what war feels like for $200 alex

>>35170767
>but do you seriously think that barbarous acts and human experimentation never occurred?

Bad things happened, but they were almost a result of mismanagement or accidents. We definitely never did human experimentation either, jesus christ m8.

Jap and German expansion = holocaust and Nanking.

Brit expansion = created the civilised world as we know it.

>>35170795
m8 Winston Churchill just knew what tools he had at his disposal and used them accordingly, besides everyone always forgets Brits were also involved in the pacific theatre too

>>35170855
>wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword

It's like they think this is a real life anime lel

>this thread again

>>35170964
Sensible post tbh

>>35171953
Considering how Korea ended up, I can see how they'd actually be thankful.

>>35171871
Most normal Americans think the nukes were awful you dipshit.

>>35168881
so statistic shows that nuking another country is the best way to start a friendship

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>>35168881
>Eurocucks and Weeabs still ass mad Japan reaped what they sowed.

>>35172100
only fags think that.

most think they were justified

>>35172100

Sure, if you only apply your narrow view of what a ''normal America'' is.

>>35171957
Burma

>>35168881
we don't give a fuck onto Aussies unless it comes to fucking whales

>>35172100

No they don't dumbass

Awful as in thing that resulted in death and misery and aren't a cause for happiness? Sure. Regret? No way, never heard an American even think about it out loud.

>>35172122
Why would Europeans care? They were doing much worse shit at the time raping half the world for centuries and trying to wipe out entire ethnic groups

>>35171871
What exactly is the point you're trying to make

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>>35171891
>>35171909
Great men always express regret when their actions, however necessary, cause pain and grief.

Pic related

>>35172040
Notice that they didn't need anime until after they got smacked down so hard

>>35171985
>teaching those Jap cocks exactly what war feels like

Americans talking about what war really feels like makes me laugh, your homelands always comes out unscathed because you're just on your shitty continent with only wetbacks to the south and faggots to the north.

Try having to literally rebuild your country.

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>>35172184
Get out of our hemisphere, Jap!

>>35172254
i do not understand that picture

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>>35172243

>coming from a country that hasn't fought a non-civil war on its own soil since it was conquered in 1066

island babbies to the extreme

>>35172243
>land invasions of britain: 2

You're just as bad fatboy

>>35172285
>2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasions_of_the_British_Isles

>>35172254
Why do the whales want to gas the kangaroo?
Is this why Japan wants to hunt whales? To prevent the whales from invading Australia and persecuting marsupials?

>>35172273
We criticise Japs because they hunt whales in our territorial waters.
Japs criticise us, because eating beef "is totally the same" as eating whales.

>>35172254
we already got shut out from there, no worries. we follow the decision.

>>35172243

I was speaking on behalf of the conquested and molested islands of the Pacific as well as Japan, amigo

>>35172311
>look these medieval land invasions and coastal raids show that we've experienced total war on the homefront

lol

>>35172254

You eat Kangaroos?

>>35171661
Alderaan was technically neutral and unarmed. Japan wasn't.

>>35172348
Yep, can get it at most supermarkets.

>>35172348
The kangaroo is delicious. Not like whale.

>>35172348
Why wouldn't you?

>>35172014
But they weren't use soldiers to use. He stole them. And you capitulated Singapore so easily, when you guys promised to hold and help out. I'd be fine with it if you didn't promise to help out more and then backed out like pussies.

>>35172344
Well the last invasion was by the French during the Napoleonic wars and they got rekt by a bunch of drunk villagers

>>35172348
You eat Deer?

>>35172354
Proofs? The Alderaanian rebel trying to protect her planet is hardly convincing

>Canadians and Australians both try to claim "best soldier per capita" of WW2

well

who is it really

>>35172329
just to let everyone knows, the territory is called Southern Ocean, which is supposed to belong to nobody

>>35172430

''Toughest soldiers'' is an excuse for countries that are proud of their irrelevant military.

>>35172434
That's what you say, but several countries placed claims around that area. The contention is that we claim it as part of our Antarctic territory, and since you guys don't recognise those claims, they don't apply to you. It's basically just all empty threats.

>>35172329
If they bred whales in farms to kill and eat I don't think anybody would care. Why do japs not understand this?

>>35172348
Have you never tried kangaroo lad?

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>>35172434
Stay in your own hemisphere, Nippy.

twne

>>35169059
Actually you did back in the 90s. I'm kinda sad to say I know this.

>>35172493

Whales are pretty intelligent m8. They're capable of abstract thought, unlike simple cattle. It's pretty cruel what happens to them all things considered.

>>35172540
Pigs are smarter than dogs yet we still eat them.

>>35172482
Yes, after all, the decision admitted Australia's appeal. so we left from there.

>>35172572
Yeah but pigs are nasty fuckers so they deserve it

>>35172572

>smarter

I've heard they're near the same level, if you can even quantify that

at any rate, pig farming is too prolific to try to stop at this point

whale hunting isn't

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>>35172539
yup here's proof

>>35172572
>dogs are dumber than pigs
And yet I can't find dog meat anywhere.

Why the fuck can't Amerians help dehumanizing Japs when a talk comes to the war?

>>35172681
Shut up and make my hentai you flatfaced fuck

>>35172681

gotta set the mood

the year is 1945

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>>35172681
We dehumanize everyone we go to war with it's nothing personal against you.

>>35172713
Even today
You guys better fix that

>>35172681
literally japs weren't human back then. that's all. if we were white, we would never get nuked for sure. they need whatever reason to justify the nukes

>>35172681
What's there to humanize?

>>35172753

you were the biggest assholes to us personally

it's not like the Germans were as big of dicks to us, and they'd already surrendered too

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>>35172750
Worked for 100+ years no need to stop now.

>>35172681
Because you guys acted like sub human peices of shit.

>>35172760
Wow Irish

>>35172794
How to excuse yourself if accused as racist?

>>35172827
So did your side, didn't it?

>>35171871

No regret because it was the best thing.

What else was there to do? The atom bombs killed the least amount of people possible and ended war faster than any other means. Prove me wrong and I'll reconsider. Was it sad? Yes. Was it wrong? In terms of how murder is wrong? Sure. Was it the best outcome of a shitty situation? Yes.

The thing that I've never understood is how people from other countries act like the US should have done something different, like there was a better way. Then they try to say that we only bombed them because we're a horrible country that likes killing people. That's the part that pisses me off and I don't understand it at all. Give me one better alternative. People would have been killed no matter what happened. What's the difference between being killed by an invading army, or a nuclear bomb? At the end of the day, none.

>>35172827
We actually didn't though

>>35172874
>muh nanking didn't even exist

>>35172864
It was war times. It's not racist it's hating the enemy.

>>35172895
Hating =/= Dehumanizing

>>35172874
We did. being the reason to let America went mad was sinful as fuck.

>>35172866
>Give me one better alternative
Aside from the possibility that the Russian attack may have been the primary cause of the surrender (ie you would have got the same result at the same time without the bombs), other available options included negotiating with Japan and accepting a conditional surrender, and/or only dropping one atomic bomb.

>>35172951
Or dropping it out in Tokyo harbour

>>35172981
Or nuke Mt Fuji, that'd be pretty epic

>>35172864
>So did your side, didn't it?
Do you mean the Allies or Australia?
>>35172874
Yes you did.

>>35173010
The Allies.

>>35172951

Would Japan have surrendered without the destruction of two cities and invasion? Because their whole mindset was based around never surrendering, ever. It was literally brainwashed into them, unless you can link me some sources that say otherwise. But if not, it would seem that the only other option was to invade, but that would just kill even more people, both Japanese and Americans + any Allied soldiers who would've also likely have taken part in an invasion.

>>35171010
>>35171400
Fuck off with the Seppo-Australia shit

>>35173050
The worst I could think of is the fire bombing or Dresden. You guys had Nanking, Bataan death march, the Burma railways, countless human rights violations, unit 731, and just general savagery.

>>35172912
A strong part of any good war department is having a propaganda department to dehumanize the enemy. A dehumanized enemy is easier to hate. Japan I now it's been 70 years but go back to how to wage war 101.

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>>35168881
>mfw we prevented the loss of hundreds of thousands of more troops had we invaded the main island
gg Finland

>>35173050
when will you stop committing a crime and stop censoring your porn?

>>35173050
You should point out to abo things lmao

operation downfall

>>35173067
>their whole mindset was based around never surrendering, ever.
By this point they were trying to surrender, but only on certain conditions. The allies, particularly the US, refused to accept any conditions.

Anyway, what exactly do you think you're saying here? Obviously you're wrong in saying they would 'never' surrender, because they did surrender. You cannot possibly dispute the fact that they would have surrendered in the face of unbeatable odds, because that is exactly what they did.
You're meant to be arguing that one particular factor rather than another is what caused them to surrender unconditionally. Simply saying that they would never surrender, does not make any sense at all.

Keep in mind that there had been bombings with even larger numbers of casualties previously, and this didn't cause them to surrender unconditionally. The Russians breaking the non-aggression treaty and attacking Japanese forces, however, was unexpected and clearly demonstrated that Japan had no chance whatsoever of defending its home islands if the war continued.

>>35168881
Japan might need a round 2

>>35168881
I won't defend it because it was a horrible and unjustifiable war crime.

>>35173211

I meant that they would never surrender unless they were invaded/bombed/lost huge of amounts of life at home. But I'm curious what were these conditions that the Japanese were apparently wanting to surrender by? I would still like some sources too.

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>country willing to surrender
>drop a couple nukes on them to threaten the soviet union
>pretend it was justified by saying lies about how Japs weren't going to surrender and they worshipped the emperor like a god
>also make up lies about war crimes that never happened or were greatly exaggerated that Japan allegedly committed
>force Japan to accept these lies
>write them a constitution and censor their porn forever
>60 years later Japan is pretty much the 51st American state

Reminder that Americans are the villains and Japs are cucks.

>>35173196

Colonisation, smallpox and displacement? Same thing happened to the Ainu.

>>35172540
Cows are pretty smart too bro. Also if you just pop a giant cap in a whale and it dies instantly it doesn't really matter tbh

this guy makes exactly the same threads every night and they always get 200+ replies

>>35173282
Not him but

http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/Japan_surrender_attempts/MS.html

>FORMERLY SECRET FILES in London and Washington now reveal that Japan was trying to surrender, and had put out the most serious peace messages, three weeks before the atomic bombs were dropped; and that Joseph Stalin, Winston Churchill, and the other Allied leaders were aware of this.
>Washington too decided to squelch every sign that Japan was trying to quit. When the International News Service wired on July 7, 1945 that three influential newspaper publishers captured in Okinawa had confirmed that Japan would surrender immediately provided that the United States put in only a token occupation force, the State Department forbade publication of the news.

>On July 8, the Department learned that the Japanese military attaché at Stockholm had told Prince Bernadotte over dinner that the Emperor Hirohito would ask Sweden's King Gustav to contact the Allies when the right time came, and that he had stated only one Japanese condition of surrendering: namely, that the Emperor himself remain in office. (This term was subsequently adopted by the Allies).

tl;dr

>Japan was willing to surrender
>The allies knew about it and ignored it (didn't refuse, just ignored)
>Only condition was the emperor stay in office

>>35173282
>I meant that they would never surrender unless they were invaded/bombed/lost huge of amounts of life at home.
But they had been bombed and lost huge amounts of life already.
What's obviously more important is not how many lives had been lost, but what was likely to happen if things continued. In particular, whether they thought they stood a chance defending the main islands against an invasion. The situation with the Russians meant that suddenly they were facing an invasion from a far, far larger enemy force, and no longer had any prospect of success.

>But I'm curious what were these conditions
ggrks

>>35172572

Wild pigs/boars? Certainly, those fuckers are smart. Domesticated pigs? Hardly. At best they're around the same level as a domesticated dog breed of average dog intelligence.

>>35173291
oh wait, we were at the same stage?

>In June 1945, at Beaufort on Borneo’s north-west coast, upon defeating the Japanese and learning of the 2000 Australian and Britsh POWs dying on the Sandakan Death March, Australian troops let loose indigenous headhunters on some of the 6000 Japanese who surrendered. These Japanese POWs were forced in a death march of their own, the “Beaufort Episode”.

>A former prostitute recalled that as soon as Australian troops arrived in Kure in early 1946, they 'dragged young women into their jeeps, took them to the mountain, and then raped them. I heard them screaming for help nearly every night'.

>I stood beside a bed in hospital. On it lay a girl, unconscious, her long, black hair in wild tumult on the pillow. A doctor and two nurses were working to revive her. An hour before she had been raped by twenty soldiers. We found her where they had left her, on a piece of waste land. The hospital was in Hiroshima. The girl was Japanese. The soldiers were Australians. The moaning and wailing had ceased and she was quiet now. The tortured tension on her face had slipped away, and the soft brown skin was smooth and unwrinkled, stained with tears like the face of a child that has cried herself to sleep

>Major General Paul Cullen indicated that the killing of Japanese prisoners in the Kokoda Track Campaign was not uncommon. In one instance he recalled during the battle at Gorari that "the leading platoon captured five or seven Japanese and moved on to the next battle. The next platoon came along and bayoneted these Japanese."

>>35169146
How 'bout those war crimes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

>>35173175
>A strong part of any good war is having a propaganda department to dehumanize the enemy.
I'm telling that's your particular nature I don't get
You know a propaganda isn't based on fact but is a depiction designed to fuel hatred on an enemy
Yet you guys even today imitate how your grand-grand dads reacted and were motivated by the propaganda, as they were manipulated

>>35173443
why you guys still believe 731 shit? pretty much the same things as the story that muh comfort 200.000 women got raped then killed out

>>35172243
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign
>1 civ killed
>46 wounded
American blood on American soil

Never forget

>>35173412

Your efforts in Asia 80 years ago would suggest stage is irrelevant here.

>>35173443
I bet you believe the holocaust is real too.

>the people who are alleged to have did it were offered a full pardon if they corroborated the narrative
Yeah, I wonder why.

>>35173500
Why should we not believe it? My own relatives spoke of how terrible japanese forces in the pacific campaign were.

I heard holocaust was planed as huge project to kill ton of the people and it took even several years. we Japanese had such no time to be honest, very unreasonable and waistful.

>>35173661
>we Japanese had such no time to be honest, very unreasonable and waistful.
You had literally twice as long.

>>35173731

Everyone's too inefficient. We should all take a leaf out of the Borjigin's book, and assign a set number of people for every soldier to behead, that's a proper cull.

>>35173637
What that unit had done has already published in the USA Public Record Office.

However as far as I remember,there aren't any materials show objective evidence proving japanese war crimes and inhumaned acts.

>>35170302
Morality has no place in war, you dipshit. How retarded do you have to be to not figure this out?

>>35173878
There is shitloads of evidence for it, but you nips would say that its faked.

>>35173958
I'm pretty sure wikipedia still says and repeats that comfort woman story in Korea.

>>35173877
Or a competition. Whoever kills the most subhumans in your squad each month gets an extra serving of pudding for the entirety of the next month.

>>35173992
What are you going on about.

Americans have photography of what we saw what 40s nips did to island people and australians/americans.

And you would claim that no such thing could happen to the far more numerous and more hated koreans and chinese?