what is "western" culture? is eastern Europe western?

Poland, Czech R, Slovakia, Hungary are western

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>>30775838
>p-poland is western guise
every time

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>>30775838
"no"

>>30775937
>>30775944

I mean western culture

Just because it has Eastern in its name doesn't have to mean its culture isn't Western.
Eastern USA has Western culture

We're what ever Russia is just more french.

>>30775968
Western culture is being rich and civilized.
The countries you cited aren't.

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>>30776039

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>>30776019
You're not fooling anyone

>>30775968
The last time Poland had western culture it was governed from Berlin and Vienna.

>>30776084

no, that means having western culture

we are poor because USA sold us to Russia

>>30776084
Japan is western?

>>30775701
>what is "western" culture?
No clue. When I look at what is western culture and Latin america, they aren't really completely western but they share some values. I guess like eastern europe.

>>30776135
More than they'd like to admit.

>>30776104
No reason to lie. Post pictures of gommie blocks in winter and community dogs and I won't be able to tell if it's Bulgaria, Russia, Poland or Romania.

>>30775944
slovenia confirmed for western europe

>>30775829
What the fuck did Orkney do?

>>30776135
>japan
>civilized
u wot m8

>>30776195

culture has nothing to do with wealth that is not the country's fault anyway

give me western culture so I can be western
now

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>>30776135
yes

>>30776280
>that spot in South America is western
>South Africa is western
I'm done here

>>30776280
Why Japan, but not Worst Korea?

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>>30775937
deal with it

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>>30776280
>turkey

>>30776280
>Turkey is western but Czechs aren't
kek, only because they were in nato early

>>30776264
Alright then do you know that picture with the village and the old lady on the ground with old men on the side drinking and behind her a horse carriage with flowers?

Make a thread with that picture and ask "What country is this?" and you'll see every fucking one of us mentioned. We're more alike than we like to admit.

>>30776280
>Turkey, South africa and Japan are western
>V4 is not
gr8 b8 m8

>>30776302
>Turkey is western
>South Korea isn't
maximum overrustle

>>30776302
>that spot in South America is western

It's part of France

>>30775701
Western Culture is basically cultures and peoples that have extensive European influence.

>>30776084
>western is about economy, not about society and culture
French education

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>>30775701
>Germany
>Western and not central
>Spain not even in the west

That map is fully retard. The map according to CIA is much better.

>>30776345
that is because stereotypes

>>30776318
>that shit again
More than shit, it's weaboo shit.

>>30776318
Mongols are buddhist?

>>30776401
No man you yourself will look at the picture and think it's from a village in your country, as will the rest of us. It's not stereotype it's just the same fucking thing.

>>30776318
>Philippines
>western

Western culture in its ideal form is secular, capitalist, and liberal with respect to civil rights (free speech and assembly).

>>30776318
Haiti should be African and if Albania is Islamic, so is Bosnia

turkey is western more western than the balkans, or italy

>>30776318
Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Urgay, southern Brazil and many others are way more western than Philipines

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>>30775937
Poland is, indeed. See the map.

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>>30776551
>Turks actually believe this

>>30776392
The term "central european" only had a meaning when Germany still expanded to the baltics.

Putting Germany and Poland in the same cultural sphere only because the latter used to be the former's clay doesn't make sense.

>>30776603
>being this buttblasted

>>30776569
>Chechnya has a lower homicide rate than most of the rest of Russia
tragic

>>30776551
>more western than the balkans
Maybe

>or italy
Hahaha oh wow

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>ex-soviets
>western

Ok, what do you think?

>>30776655
>776655
bretty good.

>>30776478
That map is wrong, Israel and the Philippines are considered the two exceptions that don't fit in any "civilization" (Japan not being sinic is retarded though). Huntington basically said that the chinese communities in the Philippines retained their sinic culture, while the others basically adopted western culture. You can't really deny that Manila is basically a western poor city.

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>>30776566
>southern brazil
Brazil as a whole actually. Hell, even the Amazon can be pretty western.

>>30776699
yeah, balts are so delusional

>>30776655

that's because it's the best korea of eurasia

>>30776653
>implying
South-west Germany is culturally closer to north-east France than east Germany is to west Poland.

>>30776392
OPs map is the official EU map though so its better

deal with it you southern wog

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>>30776603
I guess you're right!

>According to The Economist and Ronald Tiersky a strict definition of Central Europe means the Visegrád Group

>>30776699

Georgia is just as, if not more western than Greece for example. It's definitely more western than Russia, armenia, azerbaijan, and turkey.

>>30776729
WHAT THE FUCK THAT'S NOT THE PICTURE THAT I POSTED, I DIDN'T EVEN HAD THAT PICTURE IN MY PC.

>>30775944
Who are you quoting?

>>30776756
as it should be, though Slovenia, Croatia and balds are also potential candidates

>>30776569
oh, how reckless of us

>>30776729

pls no more hope solo i beg you

>>30776776
Armenia is more western than Georgia. Armenia is culturally linked to western Europe specially France since the crusades at least.

>>30776777
sure m8
you didn't want those trips too, right?

>>30776873
Armenia is very Russia-oriented and Russia is the antithesis of the west

>>30776655
Hilarious I think you mean.

>>30776777
moot does that sometimes when he's bored
seriously though it's a programming error in yotsuba, someone in dev doesn't know python as well as they think

>>30776873

The number 1 reason you're wrong is that Armenia chose to pursue Eurasian Union membership rather than EU. Being "western" has less to do with history than it does with contemporary political affiliation/decisions.

There are many other reasons why you're wrong however, including the fact that Georgia was also a significant contributor to the crusades.

>>30775701
>americlap education

What exactly do we have in common with Russia that balts don't?

>>30776735
Judging by your food and folk culture you seem much closer to Poland and Czechia than France.

>>30776551
Please.

>>30777070
Money.

>>30777070
>americlap
that map is by the EU, dumbs fucking bulgar

>>30776947
>Russia
>the antithesis of the west
That's not how you spell "East Asia".

Raping people 1000 years ago but everyone's okay with it.
Raping people 80 years ago but everyone's okay with it.

>>30775838

Adding polens to "western europe" but not Lithuania means you're butthurt.

Quality thread.
Calling poland eastern is like making japan thread from worst korean proxy

>>30777136
Japan is even more western than Russia

>>30776993
Western has more to do with history than current affiliation that always shift.

>>30777130
breddy sure that's UN which is basically american controlled

haters gonna hate

>>30777201
No, its the EU, its in their thesaurus even.

>>30777189

No, it doesn't. Stop living in the past. A country can't claim to be Eurasian and western at the same time.

>>30776777
Your IP has been tracked. An Internet Police truck is now going to your house.
Have a nice day.

The IP Team.

>>30776947
Some peoples include Russia in the west. It is far from the antithesis. The difference between the west and russia is comparable to the difference between latin america and the west.

>>30777235
EU map has a gigantic middeleuropa and shit
that's UN alright

>>30777237
this

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>>30776280
>Turkey
>South Africa

Ya blew it, Frenchbro.

>>30777274
No, Russia is constantly at odds with the US and western Europe, they're literally the opposite of western.

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>>30776777
I've had it happen to me too bro.

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>>30776318

>>30777187
You clearly don't know asian culture if you seriously believe that buying pointless things means being western. Japan is still a collectivistic, hierachical culture where direct confrontation is avoided and principles prevail over one's will. "Japan is western" is just a 4chan stupid maymay, even the Philippines, which are the most westernized asian culture, still retain traits of the typical asian society.

>>30777397
Interesting.

>>30777319

They also don't meet any of the qualifications of a western country. Their economy is heavily influenced by the government and the church and state work hand in hand. Freedom of speech is also not valued.

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>>30777187
Looks pretty western to me.

>>30777237
You can be eurasian and western at the same time.

Being western is a cultural thing. History made the culture of each nation. Turkey was built troughout history as one of the main enemy of the west. It is not one little alliance of 50 years between the USA and Ankara that will change everything. Armenia hisorical main enemy is Turkey of course they will politically side with Russia if the west can't protect them from there enemy. Does'nt mean that they are'nt anymore culturally western.

>>30776318
>baltniggers
>poleshits
>czechjews
>hungayrians
>croapes
>nogvenes
>kaliningradians
>greenlanders

>western

>>30777397
I'm confused.

>>30777319
and what western things don't we follow? love for faggots and feminists?

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>>30776873
>Armenia is western

>>30777487
>You can be eurasian and western at the same time.

No, you can't. Most Eurasian countries don't even want to be western. Turkey isn't western and neither is armenia. Armenia actually had a better chance than Turkey of joining the EU but they turned it down. You can't have your sujjuk and eat it too breh.

>>30777489
>hungayrians
Sweden is calling other countries gay. wow just wow

>people confuse western definition with trivial things like race, military and economy
This just prove /int/ is full of uneducated people that didn't progress their studies after high school.

>>30777561
try freedom of speech and separation of church and state for starters

>>30777124
Do you actually believe the baltics are that rich? We are in the same range for GDP per capita as the balts. A bit richer than Latvia and a bit poorer than the other two.

>>30777319
You can be politically at odds and still be western just look at the major geopolitical power in western europe troughotu the history.

>>30777458
Government influence is really common in the west. Equality is an important western value too like freedom. But yea there is still some difference between Russia and the main center of the western culture including the freedom of speech and the autoritarian government.

>>30777397
You forgot Ireland and southern Germany. Might as well include England too, since they're just Catholics in disguise.

>>30777632
>separation of church and state
So, Britain isn't western? European countries before the WW2 weren't western because muh universal rights? Hell, you're retarded.

>>30777691
>you can be politically at odds with the west and condemn it in your media but still be western I swear guys!!!

>>30777714

> what was considered western 80 years ago is still considered western today

>>30777714
>Britains works hand in hand with the church to make laws

and we're talking about modern day

Russia is far more western than Japan, which has no historical relevance AT ALL prior to the last century.

>>30777112
nah, Germany is pretty Western European.
The North is more culturally similar to Scandinavia or the Dutch that to Poland, (yes, including the East) and while the Southern folk culture seems a bit more similar to that of the Czech/Slavs, it's still closer to Switzerland or Austria

>>30777632
>can't deny the holocaust
Germany confirmed for not western.

>>30777776

You're right, but they achieved more economically within a span of 50 years than Russia has throughout its history.

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>>30777489
>established and respected scholar
>some random faggot on a weeaboo board

hard choice really

>>30777754
It just means that Russia is the backward of the West, idiot.

>>30777845
can't do it in Russia either

>>30777845

> reaching for the most exceptional example possible

>>30775701
>is eastern Europe western?
No

>>30777734
*politically at odds with a part of the west

USA is not the only center of the western world. Of course it is the dominant one since the end of the cold war but they still don't have the monopole of the "western world".

>>30777877
Russia is not western

>>30777855
So what you can acheive something economically without being western.

The west don't have the monopole of economic success.

>>30777855
They're even undercut by tiny seemingly irreverent European countries when it comes to their contributions to math, science, philosophy etc.

>>30777877

They don't even want to be western why are you trying so hard for them?

>>30777734
>Japan is at odds with China, therefore it hasn't a sinic culture
And that's why Huntington was a retard.

>>30777923
Russia is enemies with the entire west though

I forgot only the US imposed sanctions :^)

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>>30777934
>showed them!

>>30777825
Overall as an outsider looking in, Germany and Austria seem more alike to Poland, Czech Rep and Slovenia than to France or England.

South America is far more western than EASTERN europe.

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>>30778109
>mfw Russians think they're western

>>30778042
As far as I know Russia is not an enemy of my country. Oh and they are still really close to an other part of the western world latin america.

The west is not just the countries that are politically aligned with the USA. Russia, all of eastern europe, israel, georgia, armenia, latin america are all parts of the western cultural group.

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>>30777124
>money

Only if by "money" you mean subsidies from EU.

Otherwise, they are as poor or poorer than some of Central European countries.

"Mitteleuropa" had its face to the west before the Iron Curtain pulled it eastwards.
Now with the EU it is clear that this situation has ended and central Europe is once again firmly linked to the west.
The borders are clear now, and they largely depend on religion: the orthodox east and (to a lesser extent) the ottoman Balkans are still eastern.
This reattachment to the west is clear when it comes to cultural values: 51% of ethnic Estonians are for same-sex partnership as opposed to 35% of ethnic Russians in Estonia.
The old Polish territories in Ukraine and Belarus are awakening to these influences as evidenced by the conflict in Ukraine (while authoritarian Belarus sits still).

>>30776873

Do not confuse (eastern) Armenia with (western) Armenians who's exodus in western countries has created a huge cultural gap. The Armenians you speak of are those of Cilicia. The eastern reaches have always been isolated and are now firmly linked to Russia.

>>30776566

The Philippines see themselves as a western enclave in Asia - catholic, democratic (debatable), gay-friendly, intimate military cooperation with the USA (their neighbor - in Guam and the Northern Marianas), highly anglophone (57%), a US-inherited political system and constitution with one of the highest facebook penetrations on Earth, etc. We might not look to them, but they look up to us.

>>30778162
Mexico*

Latin America*

>>30778229
>The west is not just the countries that are politically aligned with the USA.
yes it is

>>30778229
You should stop discussing with them, there's really no point to speak with someone who seriously believe that Japan is western.

>>30775701
The world is sphereical. What is east is also west.

>>30778313
Pakistan confirmed to be western.
Saudi Arabi confirmed to be western.

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>>30778323
thats deep, bro

>>30776318
this

Poland,Germany,Czech Republic and Slovakia are middle european. Germany is rich. PL,CZ and slovaks are poor. End of story.

>>30778409
that combined with having western values, which both of those don't have

>>30778275
>the Philippines see themselves western
Not really anymore, we have an identity crisis because we're really a clusterfuck of cultures (Muslim, chinese, spanish catholic, american) but nowadays we tend to identify ourselves as asians, even though the majority of the population still suck US dick. Nobody is able to speak spanish anymore and english is only used in high-level conversations such as in education and politics, but in everyday life everybody speaks tagalog, cebuano et cetera. I don't really think we're western, despite having western traits such as freedom of speech and gay friendliness, we still have a collectivistic culture and gays are still expected to have a family( Gay-lesbian married couples aren't unusual).

POLAND IS CENTRAL

>>30778275
If Phillipines is western then most Latin America is too. Unless you don't consider Spain and Portugal western.

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>>30778485
Twas supposed to be funny. But ok. But this is deep.

>>30776569
sheesh, when did we get so stab-happy

>>30778121
It's not, seriously. At least where I live, which admittedly is very far in the North, the culture is much more similar to Scandinavia than it is to anything in Eastern Europe (and yes, despite political correctness and themselves arguing otherwise, Poland and Czechia are considered Eastern by most people here)

The core of Western culture is France, Germany, Benelux, Britain, Spain, Italy, and Austria. Everything outside that is periphery, though the dominance of the West now extends over the entire globe.

>>30778886
The core is France and England, everything outside of that is periphery.

>>30778825
>>30778886
>uncomfortable truth

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>>30777653
жалко тесака

>>30778825
>espite political correctness and themselves arguing otherwise, Poland and Czechia are considered Eastern by most people here
wow racist

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>>30778951
>Germany and Italy are periphey of western culture

>>30778886
Spain is not core.

>>30778951
Actually England started off as periphery, at least until 1066.

>>30776280
Confirmed for never been to Turkey. I used to get pissed at the amount of turks that immigrants but I can't feel anything else but pity for them after I went there.

>>30779093
I was going to include Italy, but only a very small section. Germany is excluded, their contributions have been more recent, and they're more a crossroads of the the north and east.

>>30778825

I live near czech and german border. You guys(germans) seem to be like us but speak germanic language, have more monies and drink more beer. Czechs are like slavic dutchguys. Stoners with great beer.

>>30779143
In the modern sense only France and England are, and to some extent Italy. On /int/ it seems to just be those with high HDI circle jerking.

>>30779259
>Germany is excluded, their contributions have been more recent
>Guttenberg
>Martin Luther

>Italy
>founded the western civilization
>Renaissance
>small section

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>a bunch of fucking euros thinking they have the right to decide who is and is not a part of western civilization.

Fuck you cunts. You betrayed the west with your ethno/cultural massochism. You don't have that right any more. Eastern Europe is more west THAN the west for the sole reason that they still have a big pair of balls swinging between their legs. Fucking pussies. I wish my countrymen agreed with me on the best way to dispose of all these extra nukes we have lying around. Would save us time and headache.

>>30779385
If you're going that far back, the Greeks were the OG founders of Western Civilization.
>Martin Luther
topkek

>>30775944

Why are Sweden, the Netherlands and most parts of the UK so low?

>>30779466
The Indians and Mesopotamians founded western culture.

>>30779385
Italy didn't found Western civilisation, but yes I'd consider Northern Italy core.

>>30779466
>the Greeks were the OG founders of Western Civilization
No. While the West has always had a huge reverence for Greek civilisation and sought to draw inspiration from it, we're completely different civilisations, in fact at the core we're as different as two civilisations can be.

>>30779561

Many Greek words entered into Latin through southern Italy so I would include them as well.

>>30779714
See >>30779676
And language origins don't mean much.

>>30779714
Many arabs words are present in english and romance language. We are all arabs now.

>All this butthurt from all sides
The border of europe is the north coast of the mediterranean to the ural mountains.
And if you do not agree then you are extremely edgy

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>>30777699
Don't stop just there Sonny.

>>30779962
Europe is not the West.

In fact the term Europe is completely useless.

>>30777397
>papua fucking new guniea
>west of anything

>>30780032
When did USA had so many catholics?

>>30780084
Countries in Europe are part of the western culture.

>>30777397
So that's it: Russia belongs to the greek first ancient civilization, and the degenerate west has their own one

>>30780190
Irish, German, and now Mexican diaspora.

>>30780195
No, see >>30778886

Eastern Europe is only Western in the same sense as Japan or Africa are.

>>30780290
I bet you don't consider easter europeans white.
I wish I was that edgy.

>>30780190
They don't
It's just that in the midst of so many christian denominations catholics are the largest group.
But if they would just group those sects all together as "protestant" that map would be much different.

>>30780290
>Copernicus, Mendeleev, Curie
>western like Africa and Japan
Confirming:
>On /int/ it seems to just be those with high HDI circle jerking.
>>30779373

>>30778886
And Greece. It's the father of Western culture.

>>30778886
I'd put Germany as periphery, it isn't directly influenced by Greco-Roman culture.

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>>30776551
>We Western European now!

ALLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Akbar

ALlllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

akbar

>>30776657
>French education

Turks are probably more western than Albanian savages though . . then again so is Liberia

>>30776776
>Georgia more western than Greece

What in the hell are people even thinking any more?

>>30780553
Algeria used to be in the UE tought.

>>30780366
The term "white" is entirely meaningless as a classification.

>>30780436
And to you it seems to be historical achievement circle jerking.

Poland is on the fringe though, especially since half of it used to be Prussian.

>>30780437
>>30780519
Again, Greece and Rome are not the West. Those are two separate civilisations.

>>30779676
Roman Empire was basically Greek. And Roman Empire was the one spreading Greek culture. As we are all influenced by the Roman Empire and are Christians, have Latin culture (even Nords have been influenced and are almost like us), etc, Greece was fundamental for the current Western culture.
All the Western philosophy is Greek. I think that would be enough to say they are the core, along with the Roman Empire. And through the ages, it moved to France, Germany, Italy (after the fall of the Eastern Empire), UK and the Iberian Peninsula.

More recently, Scandis (Swedes) proved themselves to be also quite important for the Western, as the EEUU did, too.

>>30780739
So "Rome" is west but Greece isn't? Are you serious?

>>30780803
>Cyprus is west
>Denmark is east
Fumou bosta de vaca?

>>30780739
How can't Rome and Greece not be the West? They are not the current West, obviously, because they don't exist anymore. But they were the pillars for our societies.

>>30779676
>Were as different as two can be

Have you ever been to China?

EU-Fags constantly debating here how "Muh culture" is West! Completely different cultures!

Take one trip to China and visit the local Dog eatery and youll see how alike Europeans actually are

Fucking Kike

>>30780803
>greece
>west

>>30781054
We are all basically the same. As long as you are Christian and European/from European ancestors, the differences are going to be really small.

>>30780956
>chipre
esqueci de pintar.

>dinamarka
uga buga mim pilha mim mata kd minha vodka

>>30781099
> Spitting in your own culture

Or maybe you are just another Paki.

>>30781134
>vikings
>vodka

>>30781099
Hey there Mahmooood

>>30781201
é tudo eslavo ou filhote de eslavo msm e ainda p cima comunistinhas sujos
>muh social democracy

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>>30775701

>>30781054
It's pretty silly how Europeans split hairs about this stuff. I would consider all of Europe, from Lisbon to Moscow, to be Western to some extent (meaning having contributed to the greater western culture), with the core being UK/France/Italy.

>>30780805
Greece created a great civilisation, which crystallised in its final form that was Rome.

That civilisation died. What appeared in Western Europe some centuries later was something fundamentally new and radically different. Our conception of absolutely everything, be it art, architecture, science, philosophy, politics, is completely different from that of the ancient Greeks. Yes the West had enormous respects for the Ancients, and it would often try to imitate them. But it always remained superficial, we only ever adopted some elements of form that were used to express the soul of the West, not of Greece.

Causality makes people want to find anterior causes for everything, trying to make the West the simple product of a combination of Greco-Roman and Jewish elements. As if a civilisation couldn't appear on its own. But there is absolutely nothing Greek, Roman, or Jewish, about a Gothic cathedral, the use of perspective in an oil painting, or polyphony in a fugue.

>Romans were influenced by Greeks so Greece is western too
You guys would be surprised how much the early arabs studied on greek texts.

>>30776947
Russia is kind of Western, but they do not want to mix with us. Don't let the American propaganda blind you.

>>30776318
It puts us on the "Islamic" civilization. Fuck that, fuck you.

>>30781291
"Identity stripped"

Says the faggot with Sharia Law zones and Sharia police

1,500 kids raped by Paki's in one town and not even a single Paki murdered/beaten

Islam to be dominant religion by 2030 according to multiple sources/reports

huehuehuheue EU sucks!!!

Fucking Paki nigger cunt

>>30780943
What?

Ancient Greece and ancient Rome are one and the same civilisation. What Toynbee calls the Hellenic civilisation, and Spengler the apollonian.

The West is a separate civilisation. Although the city of Rome belongs to its core region.

>>30781375
people only know about it in the UK because we're the only country in the EU who have a population who see it as a problem

>>30776199
Well yeah, they're Austrian Süd-Bundesländer.

>>30781365
You are, until you bully all of the Palestinians out of there, or kill them.

>>30776318
Lol Polan thinks Kazakhstan is ortodox.

>>30781426
That is the most delusional thing I have ever seen in my life .

DO you even understand that if this happened in countries like Poland/Greece that there would be Paki's hanging by every single street lamp in the country?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU CUCKS

>>30780978
They weren't. When our society came into being it was Catholic, feudal

>>30781054
The soul of Chinese civilisation is actually far more similar to ours than that of Greek civilisation. The Chinese share our strong sense of time and eternity. It's what led them to create states and highly complex civil service that are remarkably similar to what you can find in the West (as well as in ancient Egypt), and far beyond anything that ancient Greeks could have produced, who reject time with their whole being.

>>30781365
>implying the portion of land where you are don't belong to islamic civilization
Go back to europe

>>30781320
Certainly. We are a different civilization. But in my opinion, that they were the core still stands. If not by them, our culture would be completely different.
Just imagine Carthage winning against Rome (even when Carthage was looking up Greece, too), or the Persians defeating the Greeks and conquering Europe. Or the Celts destroying Rome.

Everything would be so different.

>>30781551
>WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU CUCKS

the EU making us hug all muslims and embrace thousands of immigrants

>>30775701

In 50 years it will be thanks to multiculturalism

>>30781565
Do you ever know your own history?

Almost every single French coastal town on the Med Sea was built by Greeks and were majority Greek for thousands of years . . that had to influence French society in some way?

Marseilles is a greek word for example

Either way, French/Greek/Polak/German/UK in 2014 is not that different . . in 1250 AD, yes they were . . but now we share a common culture with unique traits.

If you want to see what "two compeltely different cultures" looks like . .take a trip to Nigeria or South China and see the horrors

>>30781355
One of the definitions of West takes this into account - West was mainly influenced by Plotinus [Neoplatonic school], Arab World by Aristotles and the East by "hardcore" Platonism.

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>>30781593
>Islam
>Civilization

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I had to take a non-western history class in university and polish history fell under slavic history which was considered non-western

>>30781565
>Greece and Rome aren't the foundation of modern French society.
It's time to stop posting Pierre.

>>30781713
nobody outside of Poland thinks Poland is western

>>30781703
Arab world was influenced by Greeks before Muslims . . after Muhammed the Pedo prophet gained power, he killed/exiled all the educated Greeks and this is why the Middle East is a cesspool of pedophilia,disease, murder and chaos it is today

>>30781643
It might be different in the sense that the West might never have appeared. That sort of thing is impossible to know. But what lies at the core of any civilisation is its soul, and that never changes. And the souls of the West and of Greece are as different as two souls can be.

>>30781565
Catholics were similar to Romans, and feudalism was already taking place in the Empire. It was gradual.

When the Moors came to Spain, people here were still Romans, and the Visigoths were romanized. People changed gradually, along with the rest of Europe.

>>30781709
Well they were, for a good while. Who was that guy that came in and sent them back in time with his conservative form of Islam?

>>30781780
That seems to be a common theme with Greeks.
>Make places they inhabit better
>Get genocided by the majority because the natives are buttmad at their inferiority.

>>30781758
I consider them Western in the same sense I consider Sweden Western.

>>30781809
Idk, I'm no Islamist

I always assumed that the reconquista just did a number on them

>>30781785
What are you even talking about with this "souls" talk? I can't even debate you if you make no sense like that which is frustrating.

I will give you my experiences in Greece/France from recent trips

Went to South France . . everyone enjoyed food, wine, relaxing on the beach with family and friends and the simple lifestyle

Went to Greece and experience the same thing

As far as artwork or literature goes, then it is vastly different . . philosophy is also very different which is what I assume you mean by the "soul" correct?

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Officially?
Publications office of the European Union dictates western Europe ends at Germany.
Green is western Europe.

I'm not sure how different western poland is from eastern germany though, would be neat if a yuro could comment.

>>30781687

>that had to influence French society in some way?
Not really.

Can you trace any influence that the presence of Greeks along the Mediterranean coast in 500BC had on the Western civilisation that appeared 1500 years later? I can't.

>take a trip to Nigeria or South China and see the horrors
Do you have any notion what kind of tortures ancient Greeks and Romans would inflict on humans? I don't know how exactly this pertains to the subject at hand, but if you think being Western is defined by the lack of horrors that most certainly disqualifies Greco-Romans as well.

>>30781780
>Arab world was influenced by Greeks before Muslims . .
Yes, but the current Arab world was far more influenced by the Aristotelians in general than the "old" Greek/Platonic view.

>he killed/exiled all the educated Greeks and this is why the Middle East
Yeah, but the later Abassid Empire would then welcome scholars from around the world.

>>30781780
No. Even after Muhammed, they were still studying the ancient Greek texts. And when a big part of the Roman-Greek culture was lost in Western Europe, they managed to retain those books and knowledge (the Byzantine Empire, obviously, too).

To me western culture always meant capitalism + christianism

>>30781874
are you polish or are you autistic internet self hating authority?

Poland is more western than Sweden and Finland. We hate USA, refuse to join Nato and are very socialistic. The culture isn't similar either.

>>30781881
The Islamic world used to the heart of progressive world, if you can believe it. Algebra has it's roots in the Islamic world. I can't seem to remember the influential figure who pushed them off course forever though.

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>>30775701
Daily reminder

>>30782045
I guess his point is the same as >>30782003.
Also, consider Poland is Catholic, as opposed to the Orthodox East.

>>30781745
Contentless post.

>>30781802
How could Catholicism possibly be considered similar to Greco-Roman paganism? One sees the universe as infinite space ruled by dynamic forces that all find their origin in the will of a single God. The other seems it as a collection of bodies with no depth, where gods are physical bodies as well with limited powers, and tied to a physical location. That enormous contrast represents the full measure of the contradition between Greece and West.

inb4 Rome was Christian at the end, by then old Roman civilisation was dead, the culture that dominated Rome was Eastern/Arabian, and the kind of Christianity they practiced was very different from Catholicism, and more similar in spirit to the other religions of its civilisation like Judaism and later Islam.

>>30782120
western generally means anglo culture, something the nordic countries don't have

germany is western because its been a US satellite state since ww2

>>30781890
So you're point is that both places have food, wine, and beaches?

Here's a newsflash, ancient Greek civilisation died 2000 years ago, modern Greece is not ancient Greek.

>>30775701
>France in a sub-region with the UK and Germoney but not with Italy or Spain
u wot?

>>30782170
>the culture that dominated Rome was Eastern/Arabian
Oh, not Pierre then; Muhammad.

>>30782045
I'm not, you guys on /int/ seem to have an unjust hatred for Poland though, so you're bias. They're like Sweden in the sense that they're on the outskirts of the core, and have played their part respectively in Western Civilization as such.

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modern arabs are as related to classical persians as modern sicilians are to romans

>>30782260
have you even been to poland?

i have

it's an emerging country. it's not western.

>>30782252
Yes you're very dumb, we get it.

>>30782232
Modern Greek civilization is based off Byzantine Greek Orthodox civilization(which has roots in Ancients)

I am no expert on Byzantine and 500AD-1500AD French, so I will not compare them . . but am I wrong in assuming that Byzantine Empire and 500AD-1500AD France was not so different?

>>30782137
/thread

>>30782418
Not as dumb as the guy who says the dominant Roman culture was Arabic. Go back to Algiers.

>>30782260
dude srsly
we are not western
we played part in western history, yes, but our culture is definitely eastern european

>>30782369
Well yes, but communism doesn't undo its history. Many nations would have a lower standard of living than they currently do if they were subject to what the Polish nation was subject to. And Western, at least how I understand it, isn't solely related to a nation's development, if at all. Culturally they're Western, or at least the peripherally, like Sweden. That's the impression I'm left with having studied a little of their history.

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>mfw the last bastion of pure german blood on earth is safely preserved in the USA.
>all "germanics" in europe are actually the product of slav rape

>>30782525
I don't mean Western as in Western European, but in the macro sense of the word.

>>30782535
>the goat wins
kek

>>30782535
That's Brazil, and I don't see what it has to do with anything anyway.

>>30782566
>USA
>bastion for any whites

>>30782533
m8

they're the India of Europe

when I drove through it there were old gypsies pushing wheel barrows of tomatoes 10 miles down the gravel roads, stray dogs running around and villages by the roads that were like 3 houses each with no windows and shit

whereas Sweden is more developed than America.

>>30782533
You just say that because they hold your nukes for you, its the same way the CIA lists Turkey as "western"

>>30782633
where the fuck were you driving (and when), m8

>>30782137
>ireland
>not scum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5yMBFnGoo7o

>>30779547
The UK ones are based on historic counties, where for example the French ones are done to even out population. The palest parts of the UK are either extremely rural or south wales.

>>30782533

Poland is not Western, mate. Never has and never will be - not culturally, linguistically, ethnically, or historically.

>>30782675
driving to Gdańsk from a ferry from Sweden last year

>>30782467
Byzantine Rome was part of a third civilisation which is neither ancient Greece nor Western, and which I'll refer to as "Eastern". That culture was born around the time of Jesus in the Aramean speaking Near East, and was also something radically new and different from any other civilisation that had existed thus far.

Around 500-1000 France was indeed very similar to Byzantine Rome. That's because France was in its periphery, it had no civilisation of its own and it was under the influence of what was at the time already a highly developed civilisation.

But when Western culture was born around the 10th century, that changed completely. The West developed its own consciousness, and expressed its own soul. French architecture was no longer imitation of Byzantine styles but a radically different self-assured purely Western style that culminated in the Gothic. Western religion went through the Cluniac reforms and truly came into its own, which soon led to the split with the Orthodox East. This new high culture full of strength of vitality is the one of the Crusades, which already exemplified the massive cultural gap between East and West. So no, after 1000 France no longer had anything in common with the Byzantines.

>>30775944
>that fucking Norway
pls gieb monies Norway

>>30782688
Were those scousers?

>>30776318

>Huntington

Oh wow, is it 1990 again?

>>30782633
You're confusing modern HDI with Western, and besides, you're exaggerating. I've been to Poland, along with most other European nations, and if anything it's much nicer than I would have expected given its image in the world. The kind of poverty I witnessed in southern Italy for example, was no where to be found in Poland, despite Italy not having to deal with x amount of years of communism, and having a higher HDI nearly everywhere in their nation. Anyway, all that is beside the point as we're talking about Western Culture, not modern development.
>>30782667
Turkey isn't Western, and doesn't claim be from what I understand. They were a great Eastern culture and empire.

>>30782777
not exactly a long trip, right?

>>30782868
no

>>30782688
Kek, 10/10

>>30782805
pretty sure they mention Euros

>having the Euro

>>30782886
shame you couldn't stay longer and see more, i suppose

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>>30782633
>Sweden is more developed than America.

m8......

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>>30776318

>>30782953
>development

>>30782863
yeah but Italy are fuckin nutters mate

>>30782995

we have parking lots in our buildings. most yuropoors don't even own cars. i guarantee you don't shitty poland fuck off

>>30783029
well if your picture represents development, then fuck your shitty development anyway

>>30775820
Know what? Why are you so retarded, Dimitry?

>>30782984
I like it, but many countries in South America should be included in Africa, like Jamaica, Puerto Rico or Brazil.

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LIES POLAND CENTRAL EUROPEAN
FUTURE OF THE WHITE RACE
PSZECZEK PSZEK

>>30783180
Don't forget the US

>>30782509
Late Rome was Christian (along with several other similar cults), and built in arches and domes. Its most important city was Constantinople. You're literally retarded.

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>>30783180

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>>30783180
>Puerto Rico
>African

>>30783303
not bad, except the joke of Argentina

>>30779547
Most of our land is just forests and wasteland

Where it's above average is where we actually have cities

>>30783287
How does that make it Arabic? Are you fucking stupid? Are you implying Greeks are Arabs? Your shit skin is showing.

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>>30783363

>>30783426
I said Eastern/Arabian. Arabia is a peninsula. Most art and architecture in late Rome came from Syria, religion from Judea and Babylon.

>>30783460
can you add some ebola in liberia?

>>30783460
Kazakhstan is islamic.

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>>30783545
Who the fuck put kazahkstan down as orthodox when they made this map

>>30783530
Maybe ;)

>>30783724
Nao better