When are you going to admit that 3D animation is technically

>>3124403
It really depends on the final piece. If mucha had decided to animate, his work would certainly btfo dreamworks.

>>3124403
>technically more impressive, complex, and proficient than 2D animation is
I mean. It is. A lot of work goes into making 3D animation, in ways that are completely unnecessary for 2D animation.

Doesn't make it better.

>>3124424
Agreed, and the opposite is true for 2D. Applies and oranges. You can like them both. You can also hate them both. 4D animation or GTFO.

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>>3124408
fpbp, I know that OP is baiting but there really are people who think like this and they're missing out

>>3124403
You realize that 3D replaced 2D animation in the west exactly because it is less complex and much cheaper to do, right?

>>3124437
Genuine question, how is it less complex?

2D is dying in a slowly painful death with the advances of 3D animation. The only 2D "animation" jobs that will remain are the storyboard artists/key animators.

Inbetweeners are a dying job. There's even a neural network filter to create in betweens. They get shit pay to trace over stuffs. Good riddance I would say.

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>>3124437
Not that anon but 3D animators don't have to be good at drawing, although a lot of them are, but 2D animators, if we're talking good ol' Disney animators had to be really good at both drawing and animating, so basically you can train someone to become a proficient 3D animator in probably 3-5 years while it'd take like 10-15 years to train someone to both draw and animate.
This then means that there are more 3D animators, more of them equals more shit being done in a shorter time span = saving money. And also the fact that 2D frame by frame takes more time to complete than 3D

>>3124437
fug wrong post >>3124441

netflix will save 2D animation

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3D is just 2D with an extra dimension of illusion added at the cost of losing some visual space better utilized in 2D. the tradeoff generally makes 3D animation look like playdoh figures or grossly illuminated on some green planet.

the fact that your 3D medium requires so much brainless effort that it bores creators so much that they fiendishly push it off to machines should be a pretty good indicator of the artistic value.

>>3124442
the inbetween neural net looks algorithmic trash. the same argument was presented with that algo that composites anime girls.

>>3124403
1/10 made me reply.

>>3124437
From all I've heard it's both more complex and more expensive.

>>3124403
In 2D, if you have a limb and you realize it'd feel more dynamic to just got rid of it for a few frames, you can go for it. No rules, no constraints, no fancy gimmicks, just you and your craft.

In 3D you don't even have to know how to draw and parts of the process are already getting replaced by scripts, motion capture and rendering software calculating lighting, texture etc.
It's business, a big pipeline for entertainment of the masses. Although vital for the movie and game industry, it's certainly not why I started doing art.

3d animator and storyboard artist here

>the tradeoff generally makes 3D animation look like playdoh figures or grossly illuminated on some green planet.

that's not because of the medium, it's because 3d animators want to one up each other by having more and more detail in motion, even though the medium doesn't lend itself to detail very well.

>In 2D, if you have a limb and you realize it'd feel more dynamic to just got rid of it for a few frames, you can go for it. No rules, no constraints, no fancy gimmicks, just you and your craft.

but what about adding frames?

>In 3D you don't even have to know how to draw and parts of the process are already getting replaced by scripts, motion capture and rendering software calculating lighting, texture etc.

No successful non-video-game animation studio automates things to such a degree, simply because you lose too much creative control at that point

Anyway, cg is just a tool to cut out having to draw inbetweens.

The artists are still the ones in charge, everyone else is simply there to help out

>>3124424
I wouldn't have anything against 3D otherwise, but I hate it because all the money goes to it and nobody makes feature length 2D in the west anymore.

>>3124498
I think its cheaper, since they can reuse models instead of having to redraw them every frame.

>>3127747
>need to have character turn into a balloon for a one scene gag
>have to remake entire rig
totally cheap

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>>3127754
>need to have character turn into a balloon
fuck outta here inflation boy

>>3124403
And yet it looks like shit in comparison.

>>3127747
From what I've read the movies end up costing the same whether they're 2d or 3D. Could be wrong tho

>>3127784
3D movies are costlier, though that's mostly because of the insane amount of detail they put into them, not because the techniques make it expensive

>>3124469
>implying this anime shit isn't incredibly dull
do you really look at your run of the mill, floaty anime effects and think that actual passion went into them?
Just because someone actually made lines on paper?

>>3124456
>it'd take like 10-15 years to train someone to both draw and animate.
Source?

>>3127856

I find hand crafted lines on paper more "human" than 3D. It's the imperfections that makes it better. Likewise 3D can fully realize the visions of man without limitations. But man is imperfect and 3D cannot be imperfect or it'll look non-human. Therefore 2D is superior.

Also cut your neck for insulting aikatsu!.

>>3127878
>Also cut your neck for insulting aikatsu!.
Derek is hardcore.

>>3127859
Well since I had old school Disney as an example, you both need to be able to animate at the level of Disney, approx 5 or more years if you already can draw as well as the already Disney employed which could take you 10 or more years to reach.
No data on the matter just assumptions

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>>3124403
Though I do prefer 2D I appreciate both for different reasons. And if the story pulls me in and I like film I don't really care if it is 2D or 3D or a traditional film. The medium should suit the story not the other way around.

>>3126920
> 3d animator and storyboard artist here

Yes! Someone I want to ask a question.

Hello, I am looking to get into story boarding (and 2D animation). Just to give you a little context before I shoot my questions, I am just stating out (in fundies phase, so I'm super beginner) self teaching and taking courses as I go (starting on the 11th) and I am aiming to open my own studio and make films as a long term goal. My questions are;

- What is some general advice you can offer someone like me.

- What are some good resources/practices for me after I get some good foundation.

- How do you make a portfolio for a storyboard artist position.

- What are some pitfalls or common mistakes to be aware of (or things you wish you knew earlier) in regard to learning story boarding.

- And what are some general things to expect once I am brought on as a team's storyboard artist.

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>>3127917
> The medium should suit the story not the other way around.

oops, silly me.

>>3127878
I agree that 2D in its need to be more simple looks stronger than 3D, but 2D still has to be very well done to compare. I really don't like the direction most anime brought 2D animation to

>>3127856
Yes, you stupid fag.
There's no money or fame in being an animator, you are basically treated like a slave. Why do you think someone would work in such conditions if they didn't love drawing?

>>3127597
Horse show is about to save theathrical release 2D animation

>>3127958
link?

>>3127952
considering the amount of moeblob, my money's on repressed sexuality

>>3127965
Search in YouTube for the pony movie releasing next month, can't link through mobile.

>>3124403
i hate the tumblr charcter designs in 3d.

>>3127763
It was worth a shot.

>>3124403
Moana was a pretty shit movie tbqh.

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3D lacks that Ethereal feeling 2D has.

My general stance on this debate is that (as of 2017) 3D can look absolutely gorgeous only in very expensive projects, whereas 2D can be done very cheaply without LOOKING cheap

>>3128077
SU and pretty much every toddlers' cartoon that is still made in 2D prove you wrong. That shit looks atrocious.

3D is not an art form

>>3128079
agreed and the dialog and pacing is really obnoxious, though the backgrounds are pretty good. If they just worked harder on the writing and beats in each episode more it would have way more impact. And pushing harder on the animation is a given. But that won't happen.