ITT : Your painful experience as an artist

Nah.

milf dogs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anime girls

>>3095799
yes.

well, you don't need to stop.

get a job and keep drawing anime girls as a hobby. it's already a hobby, you were just pretending you wanted it as a job.

>>3095799
You are being lowballed. Even if you were the shittiest artist in the world, furry nsfw should be worth at least three times that amount .

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>>3095803
I am an art student right now tho, just doing college right now take most of my time and when I have free time I tend to stay at home to draw things as hobby anyway, I just never thought that the first commission I got would be to draw furry porn.

>>3095808
Fucking shit, no wonder he replied back to me so fast. thanks for the warning, anon.

>>3095799
is there any way to be a respectable commission artist?

>>3095891
only take commissions that fit to your preferences. live off from day job/patreon money. shoot yourself upon realizing you'll never have the guts to create something original.

I drew furry loli guro and rape when I was practically homeless. Most of my commissioners were nice but kinda creepy, and after taking commissions for 10 years now on and off I got my first horrible customer.
He was such a fucking asshole who would demand updates not even two hours after he commissioned it(the furry loli guro and some SFW feral and anthro stuff) because I told him I'd start it that day. I told him it'd be a week or two until it's all finished, but he'd still message me here and there demanding I be done. Since this was my first(and only so far) aggressive customer I just tried to appease him and give him constant updates even if I hardly did anything. He'd turn around and act incredibly nice with each update, only to turn around again frothing at the mouth. Being a pussy, I offered him some free sketches when I was done with his commissions to make up for the wait. Of course, he started bombarding my email and pages with demands to get his free shit and at that point I told him to go fuck himself.

I always thought I'd never have limits to what I draw as long as I was getting paid but four years later I'm still suffering and terrified those pictures will come to light with my name attached since I didn't use a different drawing style.

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>>3097649
>Most of my commissioners were nice but kinda creepy
Does this happen to everyone? I just start doing commission and stuff, mostly nsfw and all of my clients are like this. I always get creep out by how they describe their fetishes in such great details, and how specific they were when it come to the size of male character genitals.

>>3095799
"There are no anime girls without the futa rats"
-Tzang Tzo

>>3097684
>futa rats
goddammit

>>3097663
Well would you want them to poorly describe it?

>>3095799
Dang sounds pretty hot, draw a non furry version and I might give you 10 dollars myself.

>>3097649
blog or site please?

>>3097649
Blog?

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>>3097684
I mean, Tezuka was a huge fucking furfag with a transformation fetish to boot. Just goes to show that furries and weeaboos are not really that different!

>show selfportrait to people
>'yeah its difficult isnt it'
>'who is it?'
feels bad mon

>>3095799
>$10

Post your blog, numb nuts.

>>3095817
You're getting ripped off alright. Compare your prices and quality with other artists. If by any chance you're actually not good enough to even warrant 15 bucks per character you should just git gud for a bit more.
>>3097663
If they're buying a product tailored to them they have every right to dictate how it should be according to their tastes (unless they go on a pointless spiel about what kind of people their ocs are or whether they're horsecock loving futas then they're autistic). I get more terrified when they aren't specific with what they want and leave it to me because honestly who would do that

>>3097663
Besides that one guy, my NSFW commissioners have always been fucking great and nice. The weirder their fetish(s), the nicer they seemed. And a bit too happy to further discuss them outside of commission detail.

Describing the size of the junk they want doesn't sound weird. If anything I'll be happy to deal with too much detail than little to no detail at all.
>draw me a vampire
>draw me a girl
Which makes this even worse because I offered different styles of drawing.

>>3097769
>>3097794
Nah, sons. Sorry. This was a few years ago, ended up with a full time job+overtime so I ditched everything and didn't start drawing again until recently and even then I don't post anywhere on the internet. I mostly just draw birds now anyway.

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>>3098762
>I mostly just draw birds now anyway.
post them birds anon, we need to admire them

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>Open up commissions on a limited slot basis
>Get a lot of interest and even though my turnover is fast, it's taking time with volume. Inform publicly I am working on a first come first serve basis.
>Some Instagram fuckboy wants a portrait. He's one of the last to commission me so he's at the bottom of the list. Continue to post commissions publicly, it's obvious I am working through them.
>Less than 1 week passes and get a rude message from Instagram fuckboy, accusing me of ignoring him, speaking to me in the nastiest way, asking "am I ever going to get my commission or have you just forgotten about it? It's taking an awfully long time and I'm not happy"
>Try to be professional in response, explain that he is not my only commissioner and that it hasn't even been a week as yet, he needs to be patient and more understanding
>Suddenly a switch is flipped, his immediate response? "Oh it's fine, don't worry, take your time"
>Am sorely tempted to call him out on telling me to take my time but pressuring me to finish in less than 1 week because that's "an awfully long time"
>I show a picture of my commission organiser where I have a list of names and who is next to reassure him because he keeps saying "I thought you forgot"
>His only response is "wow your handwriting is awful Jesus Christ lol"
>Decide to just do his commission immediately and get him out of my hair, I don't want to deal with him anymore
>Immediately there is a problem (of course), he says the chin is "ugly and too long"
>... even though it's already coloured and finished I fix it, trying to be professional here
>He is not happy with the revision, wants me to redraw the entire face/head and give an entirely different expression
>Even though he approved the original sketch
>He says if he's happy with it he wants more pieces
>I just stopped replying, I didn't want to deal with this shit anymore

>>3097796
> snake with tits

>>3097663
It's creepy to describe it but it's perfectly normal to draw these things...

>>3098810
nibba if you already had plenty of commissions one fukboi out of tons can go eat shit. saves you this kind of crap

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>>3098791
I'd like to get into watercolor or gouache since I have always admired wildlife artists.

Which is a weird transition to make from loli-furry-guro porn.

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Where do I start?

>Theres that one guy who demanded an animation of his pony oc and got so mad that i ONCE. Only ONCE accidently called his oc a "he" instead of a she that he scrapped the whole thing and chargebacked my account.

>Then there was that other girl who asked me to draw her character in like...a hentai page and then when it came time to pay, she said "sorry i think i have enough porn of my character. Start over and do something else this time"

>Then there was the guy who stalked me and tried to hack into my twitter just because i wouldnt draw him shrek porn

>not to mention all of the "have it done in under a week" people

This is my full time job and I love it but geez. Sometimes its agitating.

http://redmatsumoto.tumblr.com

>>3099488
>when it came time to pay, she said "sorry i think i have enough porn of my character. Start over and do something else this time"

>not charging up front

you're asking to be fucked over my dude

>>3097663
What did you expect? You're trolling for pennies in the bottom of the barrel of the marketplace.

>Get hired to do the album cover for a B level industrial/metal band. Fun concept. Terms are set, prices agreed to, my agent gets the contracts signed.
>Start work, do comps for two weeks, as contracted. Send comps on time.
>Main band member loves them. Says keep going.
>Work for another 2 weeks.
>Out of the blue, other band member freaks out, wants to change the entire project. The deadline for the label is close, not enough time. Don't understand why client is freaking. Other band member gets involved, email CC chain from hell starts, for a week, of them fighting.
>Old manager reappears, all of sudden. No clue who this person is all of sudden answering emails.
>Agent gets told "We're not going to pay you until after the album is out, and we're going to pay you less, and we're going to give you an (insulting) percentage of sales instead." Claims that since he's rehired as manager, all previous contracts are null and void.
>Oh, hell no.
>Lawyer is hired. Threats are sent, via lawyer and agent. I pull out of project, cut my losses - at this point, we've spent more time arguing with the douchebag manager than working on the project. I just want to move on, and forget them. Not worth it.
>Get told a couple weeks later, album was released with my work, in Europe. Shows up on Amazon. Sic lawyer on them, and label.
>Label is mortified, pull album, and send me a check (never got paid). Manager and band never respond to my agent or lawyer. They told label they owned the art.
>Band breaks up soon after, citing "artistic differences", hear through contacts, manager tried to take control, the main musician who owned the name and everything pulled the plug, fired everyone, and retired.
Worst story i have. Mostly my commissions go well - when I had an agent, it was great. Now I don't take commissions, and i paint for myself. I had some small issues starting out, but this was the only time I had to hire a lawyer. Most of the check the label cut me went to the lawyer, too.

>>3099638

Did you signed a contract? It's seem that you lose more money hiring a lawyer.

>>3099645
Of course I signed a contract. The first sentence says it. And the reason I hired a lawyer is the manager was trying to change the terms of that contract.
One of the first things i learned was I don't pick up a pencil without a contract. Ever.
And, we're talking music industry. You often need a contract, and a lawyer, because of the douchebags. It's one of the reasons i don't look for work there anymore.

>>3095799
I have severe short-term memory problems because of a side effect of the treatment I get for my schizophrenia. It's so bad that I even take meds for Alzheimer's. So I'll be practicing, watching tutorials, etc to get better, but the moment I get that treatment I forget most of what I learned. I can't stop the treatment, but I hate not being able to remember what I learned and put it to use.

>>3099664
on the up-side, some of the best artist are fucking insane

and you are actually literally medically clinically crazy

so good job, you're half-way there of being a genius, just gonna take you a bit longer to get there

I believe in crazy anon!

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>>3099056
Is it possible for you to live from wildlife art? Also post moar birds, u got some skill

>>3099638

Damn dude, that sucks balls. Contracts and legalities sound like a nightmare to go through. Although it makes me wonder why that other band member freaked out so much if the main guy liked it. Some weird folks out there.

>>3095799
You could always, you know, deny the commission if you didn't want it to be your first.

>>3097663
I have the opposite problem. People barely describe what they want and I have to ask a ton of questions to be able to understand what they want in the first place.

>>3099488
Always charge upfront. At least half if it's a big commission.

>>3097796
Tezuka created the furry before they even existed.

>>3095799
>practice digital art, draw pokemon and shit
>finish some old requests
>meet guy on a bus, he likes my favorite band and pokemon
>a month later he sees my drawings and asks me if I could draw a pokemon twice for him, he's willing to pay me
>this would be my first commission
>I'm willing to charge him less than half of what I was planning to charge for my art online because he's my friend and we're not rich like the murricans I wanted to commission me
>tell him I'm busy with uni but even during summer delay it a lot
>no motivation, don't actually do anything other than a very vague sketch
>tablet stops working, can't fix it nor buy a new one
>cancel commission
>don't draw anymore
fucking idiot, I should just kill myself. Or maybe just fix my problems so I can practice for real. What I need is discipline, but now that I don't have a tablet I can't practice digital, which I couldn't get used to. I could practice on paper, but I can't bring myself to grab a fucking pencil.

>Start doing commissions. I told commissioner it gonna be finished in 3 weeks
>2 months passed and commissioner started to pester me about his shit
>i tell him to give me more time and i even give him a few updates
>two weeks passed and he threatens me with a chargeback
>tired of his bullshit, i just give his money back

Meh, people are just fucking stupid i guess.

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>upload commission price sheet
>shit is all nice and organized with all the prices being deemed fair by myself so I'm not undercharging
>get a few comments asking rando questions
>"what's that symbol on the prices? That's not a dollar symbol lol"
>mfw it's a pound symbol
>reply back to the guy telling him its the symbol for GBP which is one of the most popular currencies
>he replies back saying he's never heard of it and I should change it to dollars so it's easier to understand
>this motherfucker wants me to change my price sheet into a currency I don't use for his own convenience
>quickly tell him I'll not be doing that and you can google conversions very easily
>mfw he says my prices are too expensive anyway

>>3099969
You were 7 weeks late what else were you expecting

>>3095891
Charge significantly higher for degenerate commissions

>>3099969
>I told commissioner it gonna be finished in 3 weeks
>2 months passed
>i tell him to give me more time
>2 more weeks passed
>tired of his bullshit

Anon, no. Just do the work.
Good on you for refunding him though.

>>3099986
Just fucking write in plain text "all prices in british pounds" and save yourself the time
>>3099969
You're fucking retarded. Who do you think you are, Dobson?

At what [skill level] should I start doing commissions

>>3100031
skills doesn't really matter as long as people are buying honestly obviously you can charge more when you're better but if people are buying shitty sketches thats still money in your pocket

how difficult is it to draw disgusting shit?
I would draw guro no problems but if it's something like shrek bear furry gay porn I think my mind won't be able to take it

>>3100050
just ask for more money

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>>3100031
When they finally ask you for a commission. I mean duh.

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>>3099826
I have no idea, I've never actually tried. I'm not even sure where to find people looking for artists to publish their own wildlife books. It seems most authors are also their own artists. I'd be happy just to do it or fake monster bestiaries, desu. Whether or not I could make a living off of it like my inspo Terryl Whitlatch. I just really like it and it doesn't stress me out like having to draw scenes with people or come up with 2deep4u shit.

Not sure if I should go for college just to get a degree on my resume either, or so I can get a concept artist job at Blizzard or something like my old artist buddies did.

>>3099855
It gets easier, the more you do it. 95% of the work I've done, there were no problems at all - working for record labels, book publishers, etc. It's all pretty cut and dried, and I have a solid contract that i use that doesn't have any sketchy elements - and I have a great reputation I've worked my ass off to get, of being easy to work with.
Want to see nightmares? Go look at a recording contract for a major label. It will be an inch thick. (which is why most don't read them) You'll find clauses they throw in, just to see if you're paying attention. Like this one band, the label threw in a clause that if any member quit or was fired, for any reason, they would not be able to perform anywhere else, for anyone else, for 5 years. Their manager rejected that one, and it was fine, but that's the kind of shit they like to pull. A lot of people in the music and movie industry treat it like a game, and throw clauses in just for the fun of it.
But everyone should learn contracts, how to make a basic one, and have a lawyer's business card, one who practices copyright law, on file. Sometimes all it takes is a $100 cease and desist on law firm letterhead to make a client pay. The easiest way to learn is the Graphic Artist's Guild - you can join as an artist, especially as a digital artist, and the handbook has sample contracts you can use.

>>3099969
You were 5 weeks overdue on a simple drawing, and the client is fucking stupid?

You're not taking commissions, you're playing at being an artist. Good luck in the professional world with your attitude.

>>3100186
Have you ever considered, oh, I don't know, book publishers?

Do you think these people are going to come find you? Get off your ass and find out, for fuck's sake. Contact other wildlife artists and ask for advice. Contact book publishers and ask for advice. How fucking hard is that? I wanted to do book covers and album covers since high school, so as soon as I got to where I felt I could do the work, I started calling them, asking for the art directors, and asking how it worked. This was by phone and letter - you have the fucking internet! Get off your fucking ass!

If your sample is representative...don't count on that job at Blizzard. If you can't even be bothered to do a little research on finding a job, you're never going to be a creative professional.

>>3100303
I've looked, just not very hard. Volunteered at two wildlife sanctuaries too and asked around(though i didn't sign up for it because of art, figured i'd get to meet some people who did do it). I'm still just mulling shit around since I don't actually want this to be my 'career' as much as a hobby since I already have a decent stable union job that will also font some money for college. Recently I signed up for a local art class to get back into painting and I run a class at a bar on weekends. I'm really in no rush.

>open commissions
>get first request
>guy wants like 5-6 characters fully shaded in an environment, only 1-2 in full focus though
>he asks what the price is
>freak out
>ask him for $75, 3x what I would've charged for 1 character
>he agrees with no haggling whatsoever
How do I know if I went too cheap? What kind of upcharging do you do for complexity?

>>3100476
That sounds a bit too cheap, but it also depends on what level your art is. I've seen artists do one character+environment for around $100. After all, environments usually take a lot of time.

>>3100476
I encourage the use of a percentage-based system. 100% price for a full body picture, 60-75% for half-way up the thighs, 40%-50% for a chest and up, and 20-30% for the face. Each additional character is about 80-90% of the cost of the original, added to the total cost. So for 5 or six full characters, you'd end up with (4 or 5)*(.90*(full character cost))+(full character cost). So if it costs $50 for a full character, for six it'd be $275 plus whatever charge for the background. I usually do a flat rate for the background depending on the level of complexity. The more characters you add in, the less background you have to draw, so you can maybe turn some sort of profit here.
For the level of detail on a character, time how long it takes you to draw something at the level of detail you are willing to offer on any basic commission. Figure out your hourly rate based on that. Never work for anything less than minimum wage. If you're finding that you're taking too long, make shortcuts. If you're well over min wage and your skill level/popularity doesn't back up that extra amount, then you're probably overcharging.
If you're drawing detailed clothing or anything, anything that takes too long, you essentially charge overtime, time and a half (150% of normal price) for.

>>3099488
>that quality
>more than a week

lmao

>>3099638
Where did ya find your agent?

>offered a cheap character sheet commission for 800 dA points
>then came this client who gave A LOT of references (mostly armor from different series), asking me to merge this and that
>me being the nicest shit, agreed to it and worked on the draft
>first draft done and presents it, he didn't like my helmet design and gave me an another helmet reference
>revised the said mistake
>took like...fucking 3-4 revisions
>inked everything with complete armor, showed it to him
>he didn't comment anything and gave me A NEW SET of armor reference (tribal armor) instead to change all of it
>the autistic fucker testing my patience
>i didn't reply back nor worked his shit anymore

I am /this/ close charging him from all the revisions I did.

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>get hired for a really small commission
>scared shitless about not being able to deliver something they like
>procrastinate because I'm scared I will fail
>feel guiltier and guiltier everyday because I haven't done anything yet
>finally do it without charging out of embarrassment
I suck at my job.

>>3102448
FUCK

Are you me?

>>3102448
i do the opposite
>get a commission
>irrationally scared the person will get impatient, or start to think they were scammed
>panic and do the whole thing in one sitting
>something that should have taken me several days is sent to them on the same day of their request
>"wow! you're the fastest commission i've ever gotten!"
>everytime.

>Open requests
>Someone asks for feet
>Fulfill the request
>Get requests for more feet
>Start developing a foot fetish as well
>Start finding certain sorts of footwear hot as well
>"what else would you people like to see?"
>check my inbox for the replies
>"more feet"
>"draw [X] revealing their bare legs"

>>3102467
I just want to make people happy. Working as an artist sucked all the enjoyment out of it for me. I never even draw for fun anymore, and if I do I feel guilty that I could be using that time to make money.

>>3102475
I'm ridiculously slow, it takes me a week working 10 hours a day to draw something somebody else can put out in an evening.

>>3102482
Yep, you are me. Go to fucking bed already it's 6 am

>>3102475
This isn't very good anon. What if they ask for changes? you better start with a simple sketch and ask them for their opinion before you go all out rushing to finish.

>>3102477
Living the dream

>>3102448
I've refunded so much in the past that now I only take payment after I'm done unless it's $50+(then i only take half first). One day someone will just bounce with the art but I mostly only do colored sketch commissions so it's not a huge loss.

>>3102004
ANON PLEASE.

For your fucking sanity add a revision policy to your terms & contract. Even if it's something you just say before accepting a commission ("So for an inked piece I'll show you the sketch WIP, and I'll do up to two free revisions before moving on to actual inking. The fewer revisions a piece takes the faster I can complete it. That sounds good?")

I have a HARD limit of two free revisions. If they ask for another revision after the first I usually will ask they take 24 hours to make sure their list of revisions is complete so I can correct everything at once. Only rarely rarely have that happen, never had anyone actually need a third round of revisions. If they did I'd just say I'd be glad to continue revising but I'll have to ask for compensation for the labor- Hard to get snotty when I can point to policy AND explicitly advising them to give me ALL necessary revisions second time around.

I also allow patrons to waive major revisions if they want to, since there's a good chance I'll get it to them faster if I don't have to pause to hit them up with the WIP every step of the way.

My general advice:
- Protect yourself with polite policy ahead of time
- Emphasize that revisions mean slower commissions & slower commissions makes it harder for you to keep your commission prices down
- Offer unlimited compensated revisions, but let them know that you have other pieces in queue to do between revisions so other patrons can get their pieces within their agreed upon timeframe


You're never going to please some people but lets be realistic if you're 10 revisions in there's never going to be a version they're going to be happy with 100%. Generally if you have a 2 revision policy for single-piece commissions they'll make sure to get their revisions in on on one.

>>3102499
I charge upfront unless it's something big and do it half and half. I only charge when I'm absolutely sure I'm going to deliver something I'm happy with or else I keep sketching until I'm satisfied.

If I can't meet up my expectations and the client's I simply apologize and give up.

my friend is applying for a job at the animation studio I already work at, and he asked me for advice on the reel he plans on sending.
I was too much of a pussy to tell him it stunk and none of the clips were usable

>>3102551
So what did you tell him instead?
>oh I don't know how well it will do ha ha yeah...

>>3102555
Pretty much yeah. I just advised him on editing stuff like turn the music down and don't give every clip a title card

>>3099969
google "work ethic"

>>3095799
>tfw you can't even get furries to commission you

Where do you guys draw the line? Would you draw anything as long as it's legal? Would you charge more for furshit?

>>3102588
Right now I'm kinda desperate for quick cash so I'll kinda draw anything for semi-cheap.

In general as long as it's legal and not an extreme fetish I'll draw it

>>3102588
I told myself i wouldn't do vore, ended up doing vore. Told myself i'd attract pedos if i did loli, ended up doing loli, list goes on....

>>3102695
So what else did you put on the list

>>3102004
Do you have the armor reference yet ?

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>>3099999
Holy fuck

>>3102709
This, anon. I want this shit.

>>3095799
>mfw it's only 10$

you fucking faggot, that is not worth 10 dollars. I bet that drawing took you at least a couple hours.
Show us your work, if you're not at the skill level that should be paid than I will tell you and you can keep grinding,
If you ARE at the skill level I'll tell you so you can stop underselling yourself and acting like a cheap whore.

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>>3102482
>takes me a week working 10 hours a day to draw something somebody else can put out in an evening.
I'm not alone holy shit

>>3102588
plan to stick to three big nos when I start.
>scat
>extreme body mods/feats
>toddlercon
and well maybe changing canon. like giving a dfc charater huge tits for no reason. a narrative would make it much better, but still rubs me wrong.
everything else is fine givan it's within my skill range.

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>>3099969
>> I told commissioner it gonna be finished in 3 weeks
>> 2 months passed and commissioner started to pester me about his shit
> Meh, people are just fucking stupid i guess.
Joker killed half the city, asshole.

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>>3102748
I'm worried that I might get in trouble if I do post the picture in question here, but here ya go, it's another pic that I finished a while ago for using my friend's character.

Also the furry picture that they commissioned me is a basic color+ basic shading not full cg stuff, so I only charge them 10 usd.

The thing is I don't know how to set a pricing for myself, you know? I don't know if my art is any good or how much would people pay for it. I'm worried that they might expect too much out of me if I charge too much.

>>3099938
you don't learn anything from digital because you can easily remove mistakes, paper allows you to recognise the various things you need to fix, as long as you enjoy drawing you should get better eventually

>>3102920
hearty keks

>>3102709
I meant
"Do you still have the armor reference ?*"
I can't type for shit

>>3103236
I guess I could work my ass off for a tablet with a screen and meanwhile practice on paper.

>>3103131
This shit could be around 30-40 bucks dude. If you don't know your pricing check what other people sell at

>>3103399
>>3102744
>>3103399
I'm looking up my notes and here's the armor references he linked up to me:

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121211184806/typemoon/images/0/0b/Zero_berserker.png

http://images.goodsmile.info/cgm/images/product/20120827/3653/20117/large/a1f676969f454daa0aea2ac75a1b0832.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8e/25/a3/8e25a3fec5cec6fa758f74a533845f8c--medieval-fantasy-fantasy-characters.jpg

do note that he wanted to merge those first two armors as one before he changed his mind for the third one AND re-reading my notes that he wants "tribal armour like animal skull for the headpiece"...

>>3102507
I'm planning to re-open my commissions once I'm done with my currents and saved this text to my notepad, especially revisions. Thanks kind anon.

>>3104463
thanks amigo