Is learning how to draw hindering me from drawing?

>>3064029
Nah it's just bullshit people tell you in order to make their ideas about how an artist should live look good.
Countless artists have hated practicing: what matters is wether that was worth it or not, and that depends on the pieces produced by the individuals, which escape any bland categorization like the one in your pic.

Keep studying and dont let these losers distract you.

yes it is, people learn better when they're enjoying the task. dopamine is conducive to learning, it's important to draw what you like instead of listening to retarded dinosaurs who insist that you do specific regiments.

draw what you want and develop your style

>>3064029
That quote is bullshit

Art is a skill just like anyother and the product of the skill is determined the the skill of the creator

If you make a wooden chair after 30 years of studying and practicing how to make the best chair you're gonna make a pretty amazing chair

However if you just go and try to make a chair but instead of studying you just have fun and make a chair, it's gonna be shit

Protip: doing good at something is enjoyable

I think that people who only practice to get good lose motivation faster than those who practice AND draw what they want. I think both types of people can be just as good as each other, but one has a higher rate of burnout.

What happens a lot of times to people who only draw loomis for 8 hours a day, is that they usually don't draw anything else. Then they get upset that they aren't improving when they really are, they just either aren't drawing anything else to see their hard work, or they have neglected all other skills that their drawings still look shit despite excelling at something. I feel like I see that a lot around here.

>>3064029
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMKIlT-C1w4

:thinking:

>>3064029
It all depends on who you are
Some people need more practice, other people don't do well on practice and they need to enjoy what they are doing, some people need a bit of motivation to know they are doing well because they are either too insecure or too self absorbed to be able to tell by themselves and some people just need to be left alone

>>3064029
Fun and struggle are not mutually exclusive. In fact they often go hand in hand. We like games because they present challenges both mental and physical.

Read the books and learn the exercises the way they are meant to be done. It's 10% learning, and 90% practicing what you learned and internalizing it before you move on to the next challenge. Reading Loomis in one sitting isn't going to improve you, and you *know* this. This quote is just a strawman.

>>3064180
But failing in a game and failing at drawing are very different. It's no problem to fail at a game and retry. It is for drawing though for some reason. Why is that?

>>3064185
Why do you find failure as a bad thing? Failure teaches you what you need to improve on or what you're doing wrong. In that sense, failure can be more important than success in some instances.

>>3064195
Just conditioning I guess, I don't really know family.

>>3064180
The main difference is that drawing is also a creative skill. You see it so often on /ic/, fags who manage to beat the first part of the /beg/ grind and "git gud", but then have no idea how to into creativity or writing or anything except grinding studies. They have excelent fundies and absolutely jackshit to go from there, because they never actually learned to enjoy drawing for the hell of it.
There's a reason 90% of /ic/ are folks who were considered the "artsty kid" since a very young age. They found drawing fun from an early age and managed to build up confidence and basic skills over time from it, which made going back and grinding fundies more fufilling, because there's a more tangible link between progress and visible gains.
If you treat /ic/ like a drawing oriented /fit/ you will fucking hate drawing by the end of it. Art isn't a fucking race, and improvement in craftsmenship happens at different rates.

>>3064029

I am saving who has studied fundamentals 8 hours a day, and no. I do not hate every minute of it, in fact I find learning & progress very fun and addicting.

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>>3064185
i too am interested in this because i've often recognized the same thing. why does failing at a videogame only make you want to try harder but failing at drawing is soul crushing and makes you want to quit?

learning dark souls was hard but every death's frustration just turned into more fervor to get it right. drawing though, failing at drawing doesn't give me positive frustration. it just makes me depressed and feel inadequate. very interested in what people make of this.

>>3064029
I used to hate reading Loomis and other books. But it got easier and easier the more I did it. It's actually fun now. Repetition is what solved it for me.

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I've never really studied anything in my life artwise and I draw maybe once or twice a week, but I've never not had fun doing it.

I'm sure my lack of study shows and the fact that I draw in paint with a mouse only enforces that, but I always do something because I'm in the mood or something inspires me.

>>3064229
video games are instant gratification. Even if you fail a lot, you know you're just one attempt away from succeeding, which could be in the very next minute so your brain wants you to keep going, constantly hunting for that reward. With drawing, you don't have that instant reward dangling in front of your face that you know you can achieve at any moment.

>>3064185
How is it different?
If you failed at a drawing, fix it. Trial-and-error applies to everything, especially art.

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>>3064417
fair enough, do you, or anyone for that matter, have any idea how to bring that feeling towards drawing practice? if not, make drawing practice more enjoyable? i feel like i would improve by leaps and bounds if i could just find a way to enjoy it.

>>3064029
Absolutely

>>3064029
people who love drawing express a hell of a lot more with their work than "look at me I can draw".

I think referring to a single source of learning material as if it were a bible is detrimental to developing your own style. I was heavily studying How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way when I was starting out and every face I drew started to look like Archer Sterling.
Diversify your learning materials

Do fundies for 6 hours.
Draw something you like for 2 hours.
Rinse and repeat.

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yup , you are killing your creative spirit by force.
you canot "make" art, that is in the eye of the beholder.
just make art.
its a perception thing.

>>3064029
I dunno, I think there's definitely a difference between an artist using loomis and grinding versus the faggots on deviantart drawing their shitty warriors OCs that make them happy

>>3064229
it's because sometimes when you fail at art, you have no idea what went wrong, also it takes lots of effort, so after spending an hour on something and realising that it's shit you can feel depressed, while if you fail at a game, you usually know what happened, you know what to do, and also it takes less effort than drawing.
Also, it may be like that because you treat (i'm just assuming) art as something important, you want to get better at it and spend some time with it, while videogames are not that important to you, they are just a way of having fun and spending your free time, and also what that anon said>>3064417

>>3064029
Loomis is a tool to help you solve problems you come across during your drawing.

You should always draw the kind of stuff you enjoy, should always work in a good mood, and use studies to improve on what you want to draw.

>>3064049
Talent exists, no matter how hard you sperg that it doesn't. If what you say is true, then the hours spent "grinding Loomis" would produce a field of artists who could draw as well as Michelangelo, or any of the other masters.
They were masters for a reason, and talent is a big part of it. Not everyone can be a Joe Satriani on guitar, or a championship baseball player, or a master level artist.
People who deny talent and reduce art to just a skill are those who don't have any talent.
A more correct statement would be "drawing what you see is a skill anyone can learn. Taking that up a couple more steps into art requires talent."
The brutal truth is a select few will truly advance as artists, because they have the talent, the passion, and the motivation. The rest will be hobbyists. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a great hobby.
Art is not just a skill - it's a headspace, it's a vocation, it's a life mission, and it's a combination of many factors. It's an identity, and it's a drive. I have to create, or I go a little crazy. I didn't create that, I've always been like that, and almost every artist I've known was the same way.
It always amuses me to see pompous statements like this, from people who will never be artists, dictating what art and what being an artist it. It's amusing, at best.

>>3064885
Drawing is a skill which can be grinded. Telling a story with a painting requires a thing that you call talent.

> The rest will be hobbyists
Or illustartors. Or concept designers. Or animators. Drawing professionally does not require talent.

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>>3064029

So, right now i don't particularly enjoy anything about life. Should i just die away because i wasn't born to enjoy things?

Honestly though, while i agree the people exist who probably enjoy almost every scribble they do, i feel like art has a pretty high skill threshold to actually properly enjoy it. You need to learn something so you can properly fulfill your ideas & concepts. For some people, crossing this first cap is easier if they have started drawing younger. I base this around the fact that when i was a kid, i could do pretty much anything without losing the interest in it. But my interest back then was aimed towards wrong subjects. So here i am, grinding shit and hoping i can reach the point when i can start enjoying art properly.

>>3064885

Talent doesn't exist, no matter how hard you sperg that it does.

The fact is, no one really knows whether talent exists or not. It's still heavily debated in psychology - we have no clear answer.

>>3065050

What? Neither does painting by that logic. If you want to be shit at what you do, sure, but any one of those drawers can focus on trying to tell stories with their art if they really wanted.

Are you gonna tell me there aren't any professional drawers who tell stories with their drawings?

>>3064029
But i loved studying loom-loom. It felt like my grand-grand father was teaching me.

>>3064029
No, but too much mental gymnastics about how to draw will hinder your progress. There is no clear psychology behind it. Just keep it simple and practice the way it works for you.

Sometimes training isn't fun, but it's an investment in future fun.

I enjoy my personal projects a lot more now than I did two years ago, because I know better what the fuck I'm doing.

>>3065165
what makes you think some concepts will never be above some people's heads - creating a point where they simply hit a wall? That's what you're implying when you say tallent i.e natural ability isn't real. That everybody is the same.

>>3065164
are you me?

>>3065165

>talent doesn't exist
>The fact is, no one really knows whether talent exists or not.

Why are you literally contradicting yourself in the same post? Why make such a confident assertion then IMMEDIATELY undercut it?

>>3064460
You need to remove focus from
>is this a good drawing?
and put it somewhere else.

It is very tough, especially if you look at a lot of great art everyday.

>>3065253
Why do people always use the "everybody is the same" meme answer in response to talent isn't real? Are you fucking retarded?

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>>3064229
You're not comparing yourself with other people at every death, I think.

If you were competing with someone and you just couldn't pass some part of kill a boss you would eventually think the game was not for you and quit.

Like many do I think, which is partly because they saw so many people saying "OH WOW THIS BOSS WAS SO EASY (FOR MY SORCERER PLEB BUILD)" and they think "FUCK, THIS GAME IF HARD FOR ME, THIS BOSS IS RAPING MY LITTLE BOIPUSSY" and just quit saying dark souls is a bad game and they hate their job reviewing games.

Just have fun even when you fail to do something good, throw away or keep it but continue grinding, stop comparing yourself to others and you'll evolve quicker than before.

>>3065276
Thanks Satan, you're a cute.

>>3064029
you know, krenz himself says that 2-3 hours a week of studying is enough. don't let learning something kill your passion for it; make sure you have time to draw the things you like drawing as well

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>>3065275
>I don't have an argument against it so it's a meme

>>3065314
this, its only autistic gooks like feng who are invested in pumping out a billion concept artists through their schools every year who push the "draw 8 hours every day or you're ngmi" meme

>>3065332
> "I'll just do almost nothing at all to imrove myself and will magically git gud"
We're hitting an improbable level of delusions.

>>3065348
im not sure where you're getting the "i'll just do almost nothing at all" part of your argument; are you so lost in the endless void of your mediocre grinding that you don't recognize single hours as a measurement of time anymore and instead only acknowledge 8 hour increments?

What if I enjoy practicing loomis

>>3065165
Says the person with no talent.

>>3065257
Because he wants to attack talent, because he doesn't have any, and he has no real argument for it, so he has no foundation to work from.

Talent exists. I don't care is psychologists can map it out exactly, it's there.

Anyone can learn to read and write, it's a skill. Anyone can write a sentence, and a paragraph, it's a skill. But only a few can write a book that's a classic work of art. The talent of the writer makes it possible.
For talent not to exists, that would mean every person born could attain the levels of mastery and talent of Michelangelo, Eddie Van Halen, or Beethoven, by simply learning to draw, or learn a few scales on the guitar or piano.
It's the indefinable quality, called art, that lets someone take the basic building blocks (fundamentals), and create something unique, beautiful, and thought provoking.
Anyone who says talent doesn't exist is just a mealymouthed butthurt person with no talent.Hey, it would be cool if everyone had some, but most don't, and it's just the way it is. I'm fortunate that I got some, and have had a career because of it. But I didn't get it from drawing cubes for 10000 hours - hell, I figured cubes out on my own when I was a kid.

>>3065476
>talent just exists because it does
Wow, what a great argument. Just because you don't know why some people are successful, doesn't make it talent.

>that would mean every person born could attain the levels of mastery and talent of Michelangelo, Eddie Van Halen, or Beethoven, by simply learning to draw, or learn a few scales on the guitar or piano.
It's possible. I don't know what's with this meme of being unable to surpass the old masters.

>>3065414
Then you will be a god

>>3064885
Define talent.

>>3065257

I didnt mean that first line - was trying to get at how easy it is to go "hurrr talent does/doesn't exist" without any substantial argument. Guess that should've been more clear.


>>3065476

Yeah okay, I'm actually saying that because I'm interested in the objective truth, not disregarding the science. Way to project buddy - don't be threatened by the thought that you might not have talent. It doesn't make your achievements any lesser.

I might consider myself talented musically but I know I just have a nurtured inclination towards music.

You think there's a fucking gene for every possible skill out there? Lmao

Creativity and artistic drive is genetic, I'll concede that, but making conclusions about being born with a certain level of skill is ridiculous. A higher artistic ceiling, maybe.

>>3065476
>NGMI

>>3065167
>>~(p)t(p)
>so you're saying that (p)~t(p)

>>3064035
Your post is the bullshit here. Practicing isn't fun sure but there's still more to art to it, and if you're not enjoying it all then you need to consider why you're doing it.

>>3066212
>>3066212
Enjoying practicing is not inherent to art, and pretending that every student will love it is pure delusion.
A painter may hate practicing, what is truly important though is that after said practice he will be able to apply what he has learnt effortessly. This is what is required from an artist, everything else is just stuff people think artists should do and feel.

If OP's vocation is painting, and if he hates practicing, then he should just stop complaining and stuff that practice right in his throat.
Also I must add that I don't think this is true when it comes to proficient artists. Once you can actually interact with your medium with enough proficency for you to eb satisfied and sure of the quality of your work, once this happen practice becomes effortless, since it does not differ in any way from creative composition.
What I'm saying stands, in my opinion, as long as you're an amateur. At these stages practicingis frustrating, since there is no control over one's own medium. Everything comes off wrong, the art is generally confused and naive, the technique is not there (which means that the act of drawing will still be an hinderance, something more you have to focus on: this does not happen once you get good at it), and so on. I'm sure OP is in this stage, and if this is the case, he has to buckle uo and keep practicing until the basics will be mastered. Once he will be able to think only about polishing his craft, what he's complaining about will stop making sense.

>>3064029
Possibly.
https://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2011/06/how-to-defeat-kolrami/

>>3064046
>yes it is, people learn better when they're enjoying the task

literally not even. This nigga doesn't even deliberate practice

"Fun" is a retarded word invented by casuals to justify their shit skills. Its meaning is the same everywhere, be it art, video games, or any other hobby.
>I play X video game because it's fun screw the fact that it is shitty, I am shitty and my skills are shitty
>I draw like shit but I have fun REEEE
We need to kill funfags before furfags

>>3068338
god forbid someone actually enjoys life!

I started absolutely hating art after spending several years grinding to get good enough for jobs. My goal was to get work, not to do art for enjoyment and that was my mistake. It's become too much of a chore to me that I can't find any fun in it anymore. Every professional I've talked to agrees with OP's quote. None of them were grinding Loomis for any amount of time, they just drew for fun and improved through that. of course you still need to be self critical to actually improve.

>>3068344
>enjoy
Another funfag. Life is not to be enjoyed you fuck , you play life to win. The statement "it doesn't matter if you didn't win, at least you tried" has devolved into "never improve, just keep having your shitty fucking fun". Fun is not what its supposed to be. Fun is the feeling of enjoyment you get competing with yourself. But for faggots like you, fun is whatever lazy practice you adopted and now refuse to let go, never improving, never really even caring about your fucking skill

>>3068358
...for you.

>>3064029
you aren't really drawing until you learn how to draw. sorry for bursting your excuse bubble n 2043

decide whether you want to be good at drawing or you want to enjoy a hobby and then take the road you prefer. yeah, it's as easy as that.

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I think a lot of people in this thread are misconstruing the original statement. It's not saying don't study but rather, when the focus of what you are doing is Loomis and not your own personal interests driving it; that's where you fuck up.

I've seen countless people with pages upon pages of Loomis, Vilppu, and Bridgman, but the moment they try to do something from imagination it looks an awful lot like where they began. They spent so much time grinding out solutions that they never applied it to an actual problem. Nothing ever stuck.
You're using preparation as an excuse to not do the things you want to do because you're afraid they will turn out bad - and they will.

In art you are always fucking up, you're always fixing things. You are a visual problem solver. If you're not solving problems you're not doing anything. Learn to enjoy the goddamn process or it will account for nothing.

>>3064029
Every artist has fun when they're able to perfectly transfer what they have in their mind into 'paper'.

When you suck at art you're unable to do that. The only way to improve is by grinding through the shit so that you may have fun in the future.

>>3068371
Solid advice, that being said, I'm grinding through Vilppu and it fucking sucks, but really there's nothing much to be done if my anatomy fucking sucks, and drawing my own fucking characters ain't gonna change that much because they will still have horrendous anatomy and I won't like that.

>>3068338
yes, people who decide not to play a game they think it's fun because it's 'shitty' are clearly the well adjusted ones

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>>3068459
Maybe I didn't define the process well enough through context.
Make something you are satisfied with, but be sure to get really fucking disappointed with it a day later and desperately try and fail to save it until you decide to eventually move on. Study, tamper, and experiment with different tools and methods to expand your skillset - then go at it it again with something you really want to try out. Rinse and repeat.
Do this for several years until everyone around you is convinced that you're good. This process can be more than just chewing gravel to look tough.

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All these NGMI

How the hell can you guys be so dense. Draw what you love. Only study when you need to. As long as you grasp volume and perspective, you're set. And just draw a lot.

>>3065314
Source of this quote?

>>3068453
grind to get good
So burned out I cannot even stand to look at art stuff anymore...real good advice there

>>3065314
>>3068433

There's your answer.

>>3068526
his ass

>>3068527
Perhaps you just didn't want it enough? Should've kept it as a hobby if that's as far as your love for art goes.

>>3068509
Yeah I mean I get it makes sense, the thing is that such thing either implies one has to learn on their own, which isn't always very efficient or that there is some willing to teach you learn with your own stuff. Still I get what you're saying, but it's still inevitable having to draw stuff you just don't want to draw because like Vilppu it is a structured and well thought out program for all sorts of people.

I mean, Leyendecker was a fucking master of his craft but never made personal works, which suggests he was into it because he was talented and good at it and people paid him as opposed to passion, so... if your fun is from being good at what you do, that solves the problem pretty neatly.

But adding fun into grinding fundies isn't that hard. Stop every couple of sessions and draw a passion piece, and you'll be able to see the objective evidence of your skill improvement. It's rewarding.

>>3068606
>talented

What did he mean by this?

>>3068592
Just dont forget to apply it.

>>3068606

He was just a fella who liked painting strong young men.

>>3068614
yes sir.

>>3068631
I guess I come from a completely different time. Back in my day there were professionals and semi-professionals around to help steer people in the right direction, entire communities dedicated to helping eachother move forward.

Now days that's not so readily available, and the closest you get to that is here unfortunately.

>>3067329
Not sure if this guy is misleading you or not. Honestly sounds like the most opposite advice you would give someone. Also, he was already good at something before he got into business anyways. How did he get good at that? Unexplained. But whatever he did, he's steps ahead of OP.

>>3068638
what the hell are you talking about.

>>3068640
>which isn't always very efficient or that there is some willing to teach you learn with your own stuff.

>>3068641
There's a millions art communities dedicated to critique and self encouragement and shit. Still nothing come close to whatever fantasy land you're talking about were pros go around picking shitty artist to mentor just like that.

>>3068626
I hear the market for this is still quite good. Something like fujoshis are all over it.

>>3068652
>millions art communities
You mean the ghost ship communities? There are not millions. There are a handful maybe. And if it is not a walled up circlejerk, you have a few people updating there sketchbooks every now and again. That's about it.

>Still nothing come close to whatever fantasy land you're talking about were pros go around picking shitty artist to mentor just like that.

To give some context, shit like this used to happen.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9lXZ7r4VKo9aWRaVjFHdkw3ZTg/view

You do not get your Craigs or Linrans anymore. Sparth or Coro will never interact with you in any way, shape, or form. It might not have been a mentorship, but it was a big thing to even have names like than in any community.

>>3068666
>There are not millions.
It's called hyperbole. And yes some do require payment but many other art free, I don't disagree with you though, most are probably shit and superficial with little to no real community going on.

Come on man, I'm not gonna read that whole thing to get some context, not right now at least.

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>>3068666
>Sparth or Coro will never interact with you in any way, shape, or form.

>>3064046
>develop your style
Just in case any beginners happen to stumble by: Postpone finding your own style for as long as you can.

>>3068669
See, this is the kind of advice that kills. Just find your fucking style or else all you'll have is nothing to show for yourself.

>>3068669
>>3068674

Better off just not thinking about style at all.

>>3068674

You can develop both. Style is just a byproduct of learning and applying influences. I wouldn't avoid either attribute.

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>>3064029
quote isn't right, quote isn't wrong. Live your life as an artist how you choose.
Wanna have fun and make whimsical childlike drawings that lack fundamental complexity? go for it. Want to make masterpieces and become a god of fundamentals? go for it.

It's YOUR art, anon.

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>all this nonsense about talent

Are you guys retarded? Just fucking google and read some books, you niggers, everyone knows talent is either bullshit or just heavy interest in the subject, depending on what you consider "talent".

What is talent for basketball? Being fucking tall and black, the rest you practice. What is talent for running? Being African, the rest you run. What is talent for drawing? Having a hand and not being a retard, the rest you study and practice.

>b-b-buh muh criativity!

Stop being a faggot, even that is learned.

>>3068732
/thread

>>3068732
but anon, I'm kind of a retard.

>>3068371
This. I balance things out with strict timed practice and then sketching. Right now I'm going through How to Draw by Scott Robertson for the strict stuff. Then on the side I learn to sketch with different ink tools while following Pen and Ink Drawing: a simple guide.

Hopefully it all comes together sooner than later.

>>3068338
Stop drawing and reevaluate the kind of art you want to subject the world to.
If you're making art not because you love it and only because you feel like you "have" to do it, then chances are you're just going to ape shit forever without ever assessing what you personally like.
Basically take yourself less seriously because the kind of shit you probably want to draw is shit sci-fi/fantasy or anime that NEEDS a spark of life in order to be enjoyed. Otherwise it just sucks ass and is a waste of time

I have an IQ of 160 and made it by watching a youtube video

>>3068732
That isn't true.
With Drawing, even retards have excelled at a professional level. So I guess all you need is a hand.

>having fun is good
>100+ replies
>nobody on /ic/ is good

you have your answer OP

>>3068932
Except /ic/ is the hardcore fundies and don't think about a style crowd. And look at how good they are.

>>3068946
this. Fundies won't help you in the way of knowing what's appealing.

>>3068965
ur mom finds my cock appealing

>>3068967
gross anon. You have shit taste in women.