Has anyone here had experience doing art jobs through upwork??

>>3055332
USD $40 per hour?! you must be too good for /ic/, i got luck if i'm offered $20 per day

reminder that upwork takes like 20% of your earnings

>>3055333
I mean, that's what was said in my proposal, so the client should see it.

Hence why I'm confused as to why he would ask how much I would charge for sketches.

>>3055333
Also I'm well aware upwork takes 20%. That's why I charge $40 per hour. It's still bullshit, but prospective clients seem to be hiring through there alot.

>>3055343
my guess is the client doesn't realize how long does it take, and is in for a surprise.

upwork is full of third world artists that charge much less than 40/$hour

>>3055361
So what should I do? Just do the rough sketches for free and then start charging him when I start the actual illustration work?

He himself asked if we could start with some rough sketches and how much would I charge for it.

I should also mention this guy replied to me almost 4 hours ago, and I'm responding to him now because apparently Upwork doesn't notify you when you receive a message. So I really gotta answer this guy back asap

>>3055367
i dunno: i'm a retard at bussiness, like 99% /ic/

good luck, anyway

>>3055367
Fuck that nigger, pull that shit for all its worth. If you can get paid more than by all means do it. It helps us all out. The people who ruin it are the assholes who charge 3 dollars an hour.

Op here. Whether the guy was willing to pay $40 an hour, I decided to lower my rates to $35, only because a lot of the top tier artists I've seen on Upwork don't seem to charge hire than $35. The artists who charged $40 or more didnt get any work so Im just playing it safe for now.

I'll start increasing my price range after I get more offers.

Going back to this project, we agreed to start with sketches/thumbnails first. Since I told him I work $35 an hour, I said rough sketches shouldn't take me more than an hour or so, depending on what is wanted, so I said I wouldn't charge more than $30-$40 for the sketches alone.

So the client sends me his offer for the sketches, with an offer/budget of $70. When you charge the amount, you can make it higher or lower. The sketches did take me around 2 hours to do, because I had to do a bunch of research, so I wasn't sure whether to take the $70 or charge $40 as I initially said I would.
So instead I charged $55 as a middle ground, saying it took me longer than expected because of the research, but not too long.

Did I do the right thing? I've freelanced for years, but when the client gives a higher amount than I said I would charge, I'd hate to take the money and run when I said my price was lower.

I'm worried if I took the $70, I didn't follow up on my word about charging only $40 for the sketches.

>>3056125
This is why I don't charge by the hour, but by the project. He can take your sketches and have someone else do them, cheap. Sketches should always be bundled with the entire project.
I don't use sites like that, because I have established clients who pay real rates, and arent people trying to get the cheapest possible price, for the most work.

My rules:
I don't do hourly
I don't do spec work
I don't do sketches unless I'm doing the whole thing
I don't even think about the project unless I have signed contracts, and 50% up front.

Sites like that to me are a race to the bottom for artists.

>>3055343
Because that's all he's going to buy, guaranteed.

I made $4,000 on Upwork last month. Going to make around $2,000 this month, and it has become a staple of my income. Upwork has many ups and downs, but it can still be a good source of jobs, so long as you follow a some simple guidelines.

1. For art gigs, never, ever work hourly. Work at a fixed cost, and break the milestone payments into 50% deposit, and 50% delivery of final work.

2. Be extremely picky with who you choose to work with. Don't apply to all jobs just for the sake of it

3. Most artists on Upwork are trash. You are at a major advantage if you're very skilled, and you will land most jobs.

4. Only apply to jobs if you have similar & relevant work to show. You're at an advantage if you have a style that works well across many different industries. Don't bother submitting your childrens book portfolio to a fantasy illustration gig.

5. If you're in the US, you're at a major advantage and can apply to all the "US only" gigs that can pay very well.

6. Trust your instincts - if the client seems like a pain in the ass to work with, they likely will be.

7. Use the search filter as much as you want to filter out all the low-paying trash jobs.

8. Write good proposals that demonstrate clearly that you read their brief, and that you know what to do. Linking to an offsite professional portfolio is a big plus.

In regards to OP's specific problem - those initial sketches absolutely count as paid time. Count that time when you log your hours. Yes, you need to be officially hired to start logging billable hours.

>Did I do the right thing? I've freelanced for years, but when the client gives a higher amount than I said I would charge, I'd hate to take the money and run when I said my price was lower.
Take the money. It's their problem if they regret it, unless you think it was a mistake.

Happy to talk about my experiences on Upwork, so just let me know!

>>3056146
EXCELLENT advice here.

Question - do you have kill fees? I've found them to be important in freelance, too many flakes who try to back out at the last minute - which is why the 50% deposit is crucial, too.

(Kill fee is a fee the client pays, if they kill the job in a specified time frame before the due date. It's 100% legit, and if the client balks on it - you don't want that client. I've generally done it in ranks - if you bail 1/2 of the time through I keep the deposit. 3/4, they pay another 1/4 of the whole, etc.)

>>3056133
Well I thought the sketches were going to be part of the project as just a milestone. Instead he started it as a separate new project.

>>3056156
Thanks - I'm happy to help!

I've personally never had to charge a kill fee, and I've never been in a situation where they client has just wanted to stop. Like you said - a 50% deposit fee is solid protection against wasting all of your time and getting nothing in return.

I guess that's just another judge of character you'll need to be in tune with, as that's a dick thing to do. Most everyone I've worked with on Upwork has been absolutely wonderful to work with. I've even gotten tipped twice for doing an extra good job. Again - these clients seem few and far between (at least the ones that are nice AND pay well). You just gotta try and avoid the stinkers in the first place.

>>3055345
What kind of kikelord would take 20% of your shit. This is ridiculous.

>>3056166
I've needed kill fees, sadly. Not that often, I've only invoked them twice - but I've been freelancing in the music industry for years, and they can be seriously flaky there.

I'm not looking for freelance at the moment, but looking at that site, I might check it out when I start again.

>>3056167
About the same if you had an agent.

Pro tip - if you want any hope of working professionally anywhere, drop the 'kike" shit, kid.

>>3056133
>take your sketches and have someone else do them

The game he's doing was funded on kickstarter, and his name and face are on it. The dude also has a Phd and I have his number. If he pulls that shit, he'll be in a world of hurt.

But because of this info, I felt him to be trustworthy. I did 6 thumbnail sketches, sent them attached to the payment request and asked if he liked any of them.
He paid me the $55 so I'll see where this goes from here.

If he does another fixed price amount, I'll just take whatever he asks. It's just annoying when they send it to you and don't put in milestones.

>>3056176
This. If you got work through a creative agency, they take a percentage too.

Op again. The client got back to me to ask for some sketch revisions.

Also silly me, asking for the initial sketches was considered a milestone for this entire project, not a separate one altogether.
Upwork is confusing.

Although, this new milestone, which are revisions for the sketches, also has $70 put in escrow. Since I was paid $55, the agreed amount now says $125.

Could this guy just be putting the amount in by default or does he expect to pay that much?? I was only going to charge another $20-30 for revisions

>>3056176
>>3056185

It's worth noting that the fee drops down to 15% once you've gotten $500.00 from a particular client, which it isn't too hard to go over that threshold (especially if they're repeat clients).

Comparing the fees to an agency is really justified though, since an agent will do so, so much more for you, especially handing you high paid work. On Upwork, they take a fee just for being a space for clients and freelancers to connect. You still have hunt down gigs yourself and deal with all the negotiating and such.

>>3056192
Fuck man - I would just roll with it. That's what they want to pay you. $125 (~$100 after fees) really isn't that extreme for initial concept sketches and revised sketches.

>>3055332
What's upwork?

>>3056218
Yep. I've had an agent, and I've worked for agencies (Aquent), in the past, and their cut is totally worth it. I even got medical through Aquent.

>>3056146
I use Upwork and agree on everything, but I don't understand why hourly is bad. For me it's better than fixed, since you always get as much as you work for, no matter the amount of changes the clients asks for. I understand you include a limited amount of changes in a fixed price, but hourly just makes everything fairer by using the desktop tracker.

>>3056222
Not much u?

How do you find anything useful on Upwork? The prices vs. expectations of the clients are absurd.

>>3056299
Patience, and the portfolio to beat out a large majority of competition. Once a good job comes along, a bunch of people will jump on it.

What type of illustration gigs are you looking for? The prices vs. expectations are indeed crazy for most listings, but there are most definitely good jobs to be found.

>>3056293
LOL

>>3056293
LEDGENDARY
PLZ INCLUDE ME IN THE SCREEN CAP

>>3056243
Is Aquent better than Creative Circle? CC has been sending me jobs I don't want and the few I do want, I don't get. I did one job with them over the past 5 months I've been with them

>>3056218
Alright I charged for the $70. Even though it was only 2 sketches, theyre bigger and more detailed. Also I added some colors to one of the sketches to give an idea of the color scheme for the final illustration. I just reeaallly hope he doesn't think I'm swindling him for taking so long on sketches when I originally said it wouldn't take me too long. I spent 2.5 to 3 hours on both sets. The amount of drawing seems quicker than that, but all the Google referencing and researching really adds time

>>3056461
looking for reference/3d modeling/taking pics/whatever easily takes 1/3 ~ 1/2 of the whole time for me.

do people working for hours charge for that? it surely won't look right if the tracker thing is taking screenshots

>>3056293
POSTING IN HISTORIC BREAD

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>>3055367
The sketching stage follows the research and planning stage so by no means should you charge less for that. Don't charge per hour charge per completed project.

Work in stages where they sign off on stuff so.
They give you a brief. They cannot change that after. Get a confirmation email on that.
They approve a sketch. Get a sign off email on that. They cannot change that.
Get them a color comp they are satisfied with. They sign off. They cannot change that.
Start rendering. Any major changes at this point will cost 20% of the total cost of the painting extra. Include 3 minor changes. Write examples in the contract for your safety.

Get half or all of the money up front. Never give them full res of sketch.

>>3056472
I don't bother with the screenshots. I just enter my time manually. If they need proof, I take my own screenshots of my progress.

The stupid screenshot function went off when I took 5 seconds to go on Pandora to change a song. Don't need people to think I'm slacking off and not doing my job.

>>3056491
Being a freelance artist really isn't like working a regular job. If you want to have netflix on in the background that's alright, Just make sure you don't charge the client for the 20 min you drift of while watching gilmore girls while working.

>>3056507
I would do the screencap thing if I had a cintiq or a second monitor, but as it is, I have a regular tablet and one monitor. So I have to minimize or shrink my Photoshop window to open my browser to check references or open Pandora or YouTube. So until I can afford a cintiq, no auto capping here.

>>3056146
Is it the same system as freelancer.com ? how much does upwork take from your revenue ?

>>3055332
wait upwork only works for people in the US ? I can't seem to change the country in the profile sign up.

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how the fuck do people blindly apply for this ? just how, do they not know how to read or are they this desperate ?

>>3056125
This could have simply been solved by understanding the project before you gave him a price.
Also this:
>>3056133
Don't do hourly, clients don't understand how the drawing process works.

>>3056146
Post your work. I think you've been stealing my jobs. I can't get shit on there these past few months. Are you a concept artist, illustrator or graphic designer?

>>3056176
Did I offend you Rabbi?

Suck my dick, kid.

Upwork is the absolute bottom of the barrel. Move on from it as soon as you can, my friend.

Op again. The client paid the $70, but I haven't heard back whether he likes the sketches or not.
I just hope this guy doesn't think the sketches and rough colors comps are the final result.

>>3056618
I did have an understanding, however he set the first milestone for sketches and then a second milestone for revisions.
I said I'd only charge $40 for the sketches, but the client put $70 in escrow. Since it did take me longer than I expected, I only charged $55.
He asked for some revisions, so I did two more sketches, one a more detailed version of a previous sketch he liked the most, and I went ahead to just throw some loose colors on top of the sketches, just to give him an idea of the color scheme I want to go for for the final piece. I decided to take the full $70 this time since I took it further.
I just hope this guy doesn't turn around and think I charged him more for giving him something he didn't expect.

>>3055332

I made about 11k on upwork, I really used to like them when they just charged 10 percent 20 percent is serious bullshit, I dont bother with the site nowadays

>>3056167
>What kind of kikelord would take 20% of your shit.
Apple takes 30%

>>3056146
How many projects did you work on for those 4000$, was it hard and do you see a possibility in getting a better pay

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>>3056534
Upwork takes 20% of your fee when working with a client - taken when you transfer your funds into your bank account. If you cross a $500.00 threshold with a single client, your fee drops to 15%, and then 10% after a while.

>>3056616
They are either: 1. Blindly applying to every job and copy/pasting the same proposals (big waste of time), or 2. Living in a country with a dirt-cheap cost of living, and are happy to do several months of work for $4k.

>>3056621
I may have been! Instagram is here: >>3045604 . I do illustrations in a style that I think works well for several different types of jobs, but it's not really appropriate for the fantasy or concept art work that occasionally pops up on Upwork. I also don't really hunt down any strictly graphic design jobs.

>>3057102
That month was basically composed of 2 big jobs. They were both "US freelancers only" jobs and were really great gigs. Neither were particularly difficult at all - just a lot of busy work.

>>3057206
>impeach trump
you know this is a fascist alt-right anime board, don't you?
also, cool style, i see how that stuff can be very marketeable.

>>3057206
based on your work and what you cash on the site, upwork really doesn't seem to be geared towards "artstation trending tab" type of artists/portfolios, even those specific jobs like "paint me a dragon for my book cover" or "i need 1k illustrations for 5$ total" like in this context >>3056616, i don't think they want ruan jia level of works but rather some flashy shiny graphic design and illustrator vectors.

I had some funny experiences on upwork also
Guy wanted 15 landscape paintings, 10x5 k resolution for less than 1.5 k $ and said he wanted them to be identical to Simon Stalenhag's works in terms of style and complexity + he wanted them all done in 15 days

Has anyone any advice for getting started on this platform?
Is it more recommended to draw with a more realistic style than anything else?
Also, is it even worth bothering if you're outside of the US?

Op here again.
The client hasn't responded yet. I even threw in an extra sketch attached to the message chat today and said that any other sketch revisions he needed would be considered under the 2nd milestone. I also said to please give me a call if he has any questions or concerns.

Should I be worried that he hasn't contacted me at all today?
I just really hope he didn't think I asked for too much for the sketches.

The client has a particular set of standards for what he wants drawn. This illustration is supposed to be for the cover of a board game, and he wants the art to be a thematic game style, but also show off how the game works like on educational board game covers. He has an anime style mascot character, so I figured I'd incorporate her on the cover interacting with the game, but the client said he doesn't want to just market this to kids but to adults as well. So the artwork needs to make the game look like a premium game, but nothing too juvenile.

I just hope he didn't get from the sketches themselves that it's how the full illustration will look. Obviously it's going to look more detailed and polished.

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Where do you even get commissions from ? I don't mind drawing anything and I'm way above all the low-effort shit hurled around on deviantart and tumblr these days. Do you just build a fanbase via fanart and wait for the fish to fall into your belly or is there a place to hunt for people looking to get their shit drawn ?