>artist you like starts a patreon >paywalls almost everything

What is the ideal Patreon set up for the actual artist, supporters, and freeloaders?

>>3055032
just make one and continue doing your shit
if you paywall or start uploading low res crap im putting you on my blacklist and I will shit on you on sight.

>>3055033
So just use Patreon as a glorified tip jar?

>>3055033
Stop being fucking delusional, paywalling is the only option to actually get any money, how can you not understand this

>>3055031
I don't support anyone who panhandles.

>>3055046
We don't want your moral support you bitchy little fag

>>3055031
People who likely just want to eat are greedy?

How about fuck you for expecting to be handed everything under the sun for free?

>viewers are commenting that they love my work
>put my work on patreon behind a tiny paywall, that anyone could pay without a problem
>watchers get butt-hurt
>they demand that I work for free
>they're shitting on me on internet forums, because they don't feel like paying 50 cents
How do you deal with those ungrateful, greedy fucks?

>>3055031
>>3055033

God forbid you have to pay for anything you stupid ass millennial

So crowdfunding is all you can do as an indipendent artist who doesn't want to do porn, but if you keep doing everything for free and accept "donations" you're a filthy beggar and you get almost nothing out of it unless you have a crazy massive following who will throw money at you regardless.
On the other hand if you paywall stuff so that your supporters actually get a little of your work in return, you're a greedy asshole (and you instantly disappear from the radar unless you have a crazy massive following who will pour into a steady flow of cash for your work and your work alone). This scenario is pretty much only going to happen if you're a top tier industry pro switching to freelance, rather than an emerging artist. If you don't care about having a career in the entertainment industry in the first place, then that door is closed.

Add to this the fact that the majority of people willing to shell out cash on artists' Patreon à fonds perdu are very rich Americans with lots of disposable income, a warped view of reality and trigger-happy Twitter accounts, and holy shit the prospects of a career in art become as unappealing as it gets.

Just have some stuff Patreon exclusive and some free. You could also post sketches and wips on Patreon. Or let Patreon supporters see your stuff early. There's a lot of solutions

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>>>>>>OP

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>create pateron account
>can't bring self to beg for money from strangers
>mfw

>>3055099
you shouldn't make a patreon in the first place unless you have enough followers who will sign up for it without you begging anyone

>>3055031

... but OP, if it's free, then I can't pirate it.

>>3055073
triggered...

>>3055073
>give me free stuff that takes you several hours to create

https://twitter.com/forexposure_txt

>>3055073
>anime profile picture
Classic.

>>3055053
By making nsfw and hiding the good things

>>3055103
this, otherwise it just looks embarrassing

>>3055033
>implying I had any use for your neet ass in the first place
Oh noes, I will lose the $0 your benevolent looking at my art brought me

>>3055031
Like you aren't being a greedy fuck here, you just want their shit for free so you can hold on to your money

Fuckin hypocrite diaf

>>3055031
i'm an artist so i don't pay for anything nautrally, but it's worth remembering that artists are always greedy, so you shouldn't worry about it, it's usually a 'greed from need' type thing where they're too poor to be kind though, so just like be cool bro and chuck em a few bucks if you like their stuff.

>There are people who genuinely believe people on patreon would make more than a few dollars if they let everyone view everything for free

>>3055031
What about timed exclusives? I feel like if I were to make a patreon, I would release everything for free but after some period of time.

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>>3055050
get a real job you anime tiddy peddling piece of trash.

>>3055359
Wanting to get paid for your hard work and actually work as a professional artist doesn't necessarily make you greedy, anon.

>>3055412
YOU get a real job and pay ME for spending my time entertaining YOU you obese babydick numale neckbeard faggot. Otherwise, feel free to go on enjoying your complementary 400x250px images along with your meaningless "support" you autistic crybaby loser homo lmao

>>3055099
Honestly this is the reason I don't like patreon
I don't care about paywalling or any of that

But patreon even when you make it very complicated is begging
It's donations, people pay a subscription to support an artist

Youtubers do this and it's cancer
It becomes a mess of
"thank you so much for you support"
"I can't think you enough, this all wouldn't be possible without you"

you're begging

Why not instead create an actual product that people will pay for, then you are the one who is control

>>3055033
Good riddance.

People bitch about artists not being able to make a living then bitch when artists find a successful way to make a living. Get a fucking job, pay the $5 a month, and support an artist you like. I hate this board.

>>3055429
>Why not instead create an actual product that people will pay for
Except many Patreons do this. It's essentially crowdfunding for a product.

That, and there's the exclusive shit some artists offer (private streams, private critiques, original .psds, etc). Not everyone uses Patreon to beg, in fact the most successful Patreons are basically selling products.

>>3055073
If you aren't willing to spend money on an artist you really can't call yourself a supporter, it takes you zero time, effort or money to give something a like or follow.

>>3055429
>you're begging

*Providing a service

>>3055423
Show me your patreon, I'll consider supporting

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>>3055073
why is this allowed? no one would even think to say shit like this to a chef, singer, actor or a comedian and the last three are even more abstract of a product

also, we /delusion/ now

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>>3055497

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>>3055500

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>>3055130
this is perfect. I've been looking for a collective like this

>>3055501

you liking someone's shit aint paying for their shit

>>3055429
>Why not instead create an actual product that people will pay for, then you are the one who is control
Because the era where you make a thing and then sell it is over.

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>>3055503

>>3055454
>support all the artists I like
>down $200+ a month just to see mostly artworks that were already commissioned and paid for
>now forced to pick who I like the most because everyone's running a patreon campaign for like $25/mo that subtracts from their main gallery and paying to access all of them would be unsustainable

Cool and reasonable and not scummy

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>>3055503
>close /beg/
>open deviantart
>some retard is 'hi your art is amazing, please draw my retarded OC for free in exchange for """"exposure""""'

>>3055607
I'd get mad but that's the standard behavior you can expect from pokefags/furfags in general

>>3055429
>thanking people that support you
>begging

kek

>>3055716
I gotta say that many go really overboard with it, the difference between "thanks for buying things from my shop" and "thank you for giving me free money, I would be starving without your generosity" is very palpable.

>>3055073
>Anime avatar

Why is this always the case?

>>3055073

>Anime profile pic

Typical, self entitled neets with no ambitions being commies.

>>3055607

Oh dear, my future career is going to be hilarious.

>>3055625
>but it's all so exspensive wahh
oh man, how are you going to eat? I can't imagine what it's like to have your money taken at gunpoint from a starving artist. call the cops.

>$25/mo
hardly anyone prices their gallery that high. fucking sakimi-chan starts at $3.

>>3055607
>>3055668
>>3055763
>'I got time for a mon or two'
>"draw all 16!"
>respectfully declines, noting that'd take EIGHT hours to do
>therefore, literally can't do it
>"you're so ungrateful!"
???
what did they expect them to do-time travel?
how does one even fight something like this to avoid deletion-some sites just immediately delete your account don't they? you could lose everything over this?

>>3055137
>>3055725
>>3055760
hivemind

>>3055822

I doubt you'll get your account deleted for something like that lol, unless the system is automated and if that's the case, you don't want to be in that website anyway.

>>3055822
>some sites just immediately delete your account don't they?
I can't think of any. If there are then you just shouldn't use those sites.

OP's artist isn't greedy, just bad at marketing. It's like those game DLCs that are necessary to finish the game rather than offer bonus content. It might give you quick bux, but it damages your brand.

>>3055822
Just don't get dragged to their level, be respectful and screening the conversation should get you out of any trouble.

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Just sayin but I got a patreon and the great majority of my work is available for free. I'm also broke as fuck, please support https://www.patreon.com/elevencyan

>>3055497
Because people have this belief that art isn't work and/or you shouldn't get paid for it because you enjoy it.
>>3055429
>Why not instead create an actual product that people will pay for, then you are the one who is control
Because this is the age of the internet and trying to combat piracy when you're an independent creator is fucking mental. People can and do share the shit from behind paywalls and the fact is that you have VERY little control over how and where your work is shared on the internet.

To say nothing of getting started. There is no place to go to get known, to garner a following, that you can also get paid, and once you ARE putting out work for free morons like OP get all bitchy if you hide your work behind paywalls.

>>3055905
I think it only goes for drawing and painting, for some bullshit ass reason sculptors, musicians, writers, designers etc who love what they do don't deal with this shit.
Fucking normies.

>>3055812
>I can't imagine what it's like to have your money taken at gunpoint from a starving artist.

Did you just get so mad you forgot how English works?
To clarify, are you saying the guys that are effectively using Patreon to double-dip on work they've already been paid for are starving artists? I don't actually have a problem with artists that paywall content, just explaining why I think paywalling as a system fucking sucks, but if you've been paid already that's pretty objectively shitty.

>>3055723
>being polite = bad

millenials

>>3055900
see, this is an example of pure begging, kek.

>>3055031
>>artist you like starts a patreon
>>paywalls almost everything
>>the free shit are all low res
>>deletes his old stuff and reupload them in low res
>Do you support any of the greedy fucks that does this?

Get your revenge by stealing their rewards and posting it everywhere

>>3055031
>deletes his old stuff and reupload them in low res
who did this?

>>3055958
what's wrong with begging ? I have no pride.

any big SFW patreons? all I see are porn ones. does sex sell that much? what about a mix of both?

>>3056020
have you never heard of sakimichan or kronpriz or are you that much of a retarded newfag

>>3056037
those are pretty far outliers and not sure they should be included in the list of possible goals

>>3056037
>accounts that draw only animu girls
>implying they're not one tiny step away from smut
not to mention sakimichan draws porn

>>3055033
What about if you have a time based pay wall where freeloaders get to see everything that payers see after 1 month?

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>>3056037
>have you never heard of sakimichan
Doesn't look like you have either.

>>3055053
Give them something, but not all of it. Don't put everything you've got behind a paywall unless you're doing nsfw art and you know there's no one else doing what you're doing.

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>>3055031
>artists have to submit to your moral standards

Well, I guess virtually every single great painter in Western history was in fact a shit artist, a greedy fuck and was all around wrong. Thanks god there's this anon, otherwise we would do things as crazy as respecting opportunists and careerists obsessed with money like Michelangelo and Beethoven.

>>3055053
>my system of monetization pisses my audience off!
>my audience being pissed off at my system of monetization pisses me off!

From where do you suppose this problem originates?

>>3055607
what the fuck is wrong with that piece of shit

>>3056107
>that chin
topkek

>>3056107
people dont pay for those pieces of shit tho
what about kron btw

>bunch of people narrowly avoid coming to terms with the fact that they're producing a product of zero actual monetary worth in a capitalist system: the thread

I've got an incredible method of getting around this, guys: it's called getting a real job. No, not a real job as in being an accountant, a real job as in one where you get a paycheck. That's right, you can enter into an agreement where you get a paycheck for doing art by producing or contributing to the production of something that is actually useful or valuable to anyone. The maximum level of usefulness a standalone illustration can aspire to is being something someone looks at for a minute and then says "Oh yeah that's cool" or something that makes a boner happen. Since you can get both of those for free elsewhere is it really any surprise nobody wants to pay for it?

The capitalist system is at odds with your artistic freedom. Subscribing to an illustrator's Patreon is borderline charity. Nut up and deal with it.

>>3056161
she has an entire tier JUST for people who want only that. and last time I checked she made $7,000 from that tier alone. lol stop talking shit if you don't know what you're saying

>>3055031
Artists are constantly ripped off by asian tech-sector marketing teams. Low res samples are the only way to get any money out of them. And really, why do you deserve to view an artist's work without paying? Fine artists are usually privately funded or receive grants. Whatever deviantart shit you're complaining about doesn't meet that standard, so they have to make money somehow.

Keep being a whiny entitled baby, faggot.

>>3056184
I dreamed of selling actual physical comics for cheap (and I mean underground, home-printed stuff) but I have no idea if it's sustainable to do, all I see is you either get your foot in the door with a big publisher or you make some ludicrously priced collector's item through crowdfunding which has its problems.

The closest I think of is selling 2$ digital issues through Gumroad or Comixology but it's not the same thing... I always liked the tactile nature of comics and digital throws that out of the window.

>>3055031
What is a fair way to charge on Patreon? Speaking as someone who wants to make smut, I'm too prideful to keep my stuff exclusive but I want freeloaders to go fuck themselves.

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>>3056201
Who's really entitled here, faggot? You think your anime tiddies deserve to hang in the louve or something? This thread is too fucking good hahaha

>>3056216
>no u! xd

You're the one literally bawwing all over this art board full of artists with this gay ass thread about how there are mean people making money who are "greedy" for not rewarding penniless losers like you for having provided your meaningless "thoughts and prayers" in exchange for time-consuming work.

>>3056207
nah senpai, several K gets you a decent amount in most freelance print agencies.
check out printninja, haven't used them yet but their quotes are really good imo

>>3055031
They are dead to me if they do this. It's one thing to paywall NEW art but actively deleting old stuff and re-upping it in low res is total horseshit. That takes so much effort to do and is so fucking petty.

>>3056258
if it's "sooo hard waaah" for you then fuck off and do something else. People don't like faggots like you because you expect money for images on a fucking screen - not a tangible fucking item. There are always going to be more important and more entertaining things to spend money on than some pretentious, shameless and desperate faggot's art - especially you're art I'm sure.

>>3056320
>There are always going to be more important and more entertaining things to spend money on

Then go do it, fag. No one's making you do one thing or another you fucking moron.

>>3056320
>you because you expect money for images on a fucking screen
there are people with 5000+ patrons paying for exactly that, so why the fuck should anyone care what an entitled fag like doesn't like? That "pretentious, shameless, desperate" artist you're so mad about is nothing compared to your whining poorfag ass.

>>3056320
>not a tangible fucking item.
what like, advice, stripping, jokes and acting skill?
>you're art
hmm

>>3055625
I don't understand. Either it's worth it to you and so you pay for it or it's not worth it to you and so you don't. How have you found a way to get pissed off by this situation?

>>3056331
>>3056348
>>3056351

point is you sad fucks should be fortunate that you get anything at all. Assuming you get anything at all that is. Especially if it's on top of 50-100 dollar commissions. Nobody has the obligation to pay you a fucking living wage ffs.

>>3056376
And no artist has an obligation to show you their work for free

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>>3056376
>enters the digital age
>mad things are digital
>complains on an anonymous catapulting forum about it
>thinking anyone here cares
wew

>>3055103
How many should I have? I have about 5000 but it doesnt feel like that's enough

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>>3056395
Again retard - you have literally zero leverage in the matter. If you didn't post your shit nobody would jerk you off over it AND it wouldn't get you a single dime. That's why you should be grateful for what you get, and the more I see faggots like you trying to do mental gymnastics to convince yourselves this isn't just about you thinking you're too good to get a real job the less I want to donate to ANYONE.

>>3056406
>If you didn't post your shit nobody would jerk you off over it AND it wouldn't get you a single dime.

We can do both now. You're the one that came in the thread crying about what other artists were doing with their content. Maybe you should leverage your head out of your ass fat boy lmoa

>>3056406
>two posts later- still hasn't argued any of the counterpoints
>assumes his own argument has any leverage

>"i-if no one payed you, you wouldn't get payed!"
gee, what a twist. someone alert every merchant and service provider out there

>>3056416
>he still thinks I'm OP
>t-there's only one guy here that thinks I sound like a massive faggot here, r-right?

>>3056418
because your counterpoints really weren't important to the bigger issue here. Bottom line is putting your gay little doodles on the internet is not a binding contract to everyone that makes eye contact with them to give you money. You miserable. Fucking. Kikes.

>>3056434
>because your counterpoints really weren't important to the bigger issue here
Then it should be easy to actually counter them, which you have not done

Because you can't

And you're telling someone else they sound like a massive faggot, lol
>Fucking. Kikes.
Yeah I bet you work a job for free too right, because everyone who wants to be able to buy food and pay rent is a kike

>>3056434
>because your counterpoints really weren't important to the bigger issue here.
that's some shut debating

>your gay little doodles on the internet is not a binding contract to everyone that makes eye contact with them to give you money.
no one said it was. just if you want more service you pay for more service.

>You miserable. Fucking. Kikes.
>Being. This. Mad.

>>3056314
thdark does that with his patreon
stopped following him and giving him notes afterwards

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>>3055073

>supporters
>refuse to support you

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>>3056439

>l-let's just go back to the points I had something resembling an argument on, shall we?

Okay. having 5000+ patrons is a totally atypical experience and you can get a lot more out of the intangible things you listed for your money. Kinda skimmed over that because it was too easy and just further illustrated my point.

>Yeah I bet you work a job for free too right, because everyone who wants to be able to buy food and pay rent is a kike

your "job" is begging. A homeless person could come up, wash your windshield without permission and expect money for it and it would be the same thing.

>>3056443
>that's some shut debating

See above, "shut"head.

>Being. This. Mad.

being this objectively in the wrong and having to defend it. wew.

>People are this fucking assblasted over people putting art behind a paywall
No one's forcing you to donate retards

>>3056518
>I'd like to be paid for my service if you want it = begging
every job ever is now begging guys

>being objectively wrong
you've yet to prove why, let alone make the simplest of counter-arguments

why do you care so much about someone trying to put make ends meet? why is art the only thing you got it out for? work is work is work

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>>3056551
I've already reiterated why nobody owes you a fucking thing 3 or 4 times now.

>>3056551
>you've yet to prove why, let alone make the simplest of counter-arguments

maybe you should be less concerned with drawing and more concerned with learning how to read.

>>3056559
it's not an argument if it's only your random double standards. but alright buddy, 3/10 b8 made me reply. have a final (YOU), on the house.

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>>3056566
>makes no written agreement with customers to receive money for their services and expects money for said services
>it's only your random double standards

It's called the real world you little faggot.

As much as

>>3056518
>>3056406

is a loathsome idiot I agree with him, markets are about offer and demand, demand comes from need. And while entertainment is a need for many, artwork is - without exception - only part of a pipeline for a final product like a show or a videogame. You don't really go to an audience, show them a piece of concept art and ask them to pay you. Nobody *needs* any of that shit, except the actual production team.

That's why porn artists are guaranteed to make money. Like it or not, the need to jack off suddenly makes a piece of 2D porn worth paying for.
Those few special snowflakes on Patreon hinge their career on the disposable income of teenagers and NEETs who don't own the money they use, or they would know better. They say that as an artist you have to 'know how to become a salesman' but yours is the only pitch that isn't about leading a person who needs something (e.g. a car) to your specific brand of thing.

To escape this bullshit your only choice is to do it the hard way and join the CA industry, but it's such a brutal, oversaturated market and the opportunity to not be perfect right off the bat and learn as your do your job (like many professionals could do only a few years ago) are nonexistent these days. So unless you're way ahead of the curve, it only makes sense to get a regular job and pursue art as a hobby until you somehow strike gold, which may as well never happen.

I really wish someone could reply to this and convince me this isn't the case but I have my doubts.

>>3056599
The real question is, how did you come to this conclusion?

>>3055103
I've seen a ton of shit artwork with the support me on patreon crap on it

>>3056602
A mix of depression from 5 years of taking it seriously with nowhere near as much improvement as I hoped for, and observing desperate people on ArtStation who are way more skilled than me and will likely get nowhere simply because there's so fucking many.

>>3055567
>Because the era where you make a thing and then sell it is over.
No its not. I refuse to give a single cent to a patreon, but I'd be more than happy to buy an actual painting or sculpture. But oh wait, most digital "artists" can only draw on their tablets and a lot of their skill doesn't transfer over to a real medium, so instead of learning to actually paint and sell a painting they just keep doing what they are doing and open a patreon.

>>3056655
How many paintings have you bought so far?

>>3056750
I have 3 and a few prints, and over 50 art books. I have 2 small stone sculptures too.

>>3056809
>prints
>artbooks
Is that not just selling it over?

>>3056366
I'm pissed off by it? That's news to me, honestly.

>>3056655
you're still here whining? the more you post the more it looks like you're just seething with jealousy. No one gets this mad about something without it being personal

>>3056846
You've been complaining about it here for days, I'd say you're at least a little salty...

>>3056909
The post you quoted is the first one I even made in the thread.

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>>3055031
>has no job but demands money
>calls others entitled
Patreon users are niggers and Patreon is their welfare program.

>OP starts cringe thread bitching about people making money and doing what they want with their art and then follows it up with dozens of posts arguing how art is worthless and that they can't and/or shouldn't make the money he's crying about them making to begin with

enjoy your cognitive dissonance you autistic faggot lmao

>>3057057
Make something worth paying for, nigger.

>>3057071
If OP throws such a fucking bitchfit for not being able to see the art for free anymore it sure is worth paying something for

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>>3057072
>enraged rant in every post
>calls OP a "bitchfit"

>>3057071
They did though. They're getting paid, you aren't. End thread. Stay mad cuckboi.

>>3057075
>They're getting paid
>why aren't you paying me?
Pick one.

>>3055032
Make maybe like 1/10th your art free or maybe only sketches, paywall the rest, supporters can ask for commissions (or rather charge extra for that, supporters can suggest pieces so if you have no drive you can pick a suggestion.)
Although if you did do free art then suddenly take back what was free whe, that's pretty scummy.