Why are (western) white people so bad at drawing anime/manga?

>>3049658
It's the same reason they have no culture, they are missing a key human element that every people have: Soul.

>>3049658
Because there is no actual industry in the west for manga, so all the good western sequential artists get into comic books while only the underaged weebs draw manga.

>>3049663
racism is against site rules

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It's not the 00's anymore, region doesn't seem to matter that much in this day and age with the rise of the internet and art followers.
You also have to factor in that anime style has become unfashionable with the popularity of "Tumblr style" taking effect, and a lot of those artists try to incorporate anime elements (which usually looks ugly) because they're trying to be more "unique".
Lots of western artists can emulate it very well nowadays, again this isn't the 00's anymore, that shitty how to draw anime style is dead because there are more resources (pic related).

>>3049672
This. A lot of western artists tend to blend western elements into their anime drawings because of "style" and marketability in the west.

I do notice however, that when it comes to manga artists, you can usually tell when the person is from an east Asian country, and when they're from a western country. For some reason there just seems to be little small differences in how different countries illustrate a narrative.

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>>3049658
>Only the west bros
Kek

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>>3049691

because they dont put in the time and effort to study how it works and instead brush it off as if its some easy thing anyone can do
then when they do try and draw it, it looks awful

The West doesnt learn anything by rote anymore... we literally can't even teach math the same way that Asians learn anime. The whole 'figure it out for yourself' era was a Bolshevik invention and no has corrected it yet.

>>3049701
>figure it out for yourself'

That's literally how japanese mangaka learn though.

Manga and anime have had limited penetration in the West until relatively recently. It didn't become really well-known and popular until the mid-90s with the arrival of Sailor Moon and (much more importantly) Dragon Ball Z and Pokemon. Before then the Japanese style of cartooning was pretty much limited to Voltron and some videogame art.

The shitty "How to Draw Manga" books of the late 90s and early 2000s were drawn by American artists who had spent their whole lives drawing in Western styles, and were just mimicking the hot new trend. That's why they look like shit.

That's changing though, because the generation that watched anime regularly as small children is growing up and drawing in the style much more proficiently.

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>>3049658
They have better art programs than we do. Americans pour all their money into FOOOOTBAAAAAALL and other athletics. Art is always the first thing to get cut when money becomes an issue in American public schools. Heaven forbid we disappoint all the parents who want their kids to live the dream of being a star athlete by cutting funding to their athletic programs.

>>3049658
Because they aren't trying to learn. They try to recreate the impression without having to understand the elements that compose it.

>>3049746
That's exactly how the Katy Coope manga books work too. She gives you just enough to get by with but the rest is up to you to realize that you can't just mimic art all your life. You have to buckle down and learn some proper anatomy before you can start to get back into drawing in that style. Even then there really aren't a whole lot of resources that thoroughly explain Manga/Anime styles without showing step by step instructions that just quickly get you to the end product.

>>3049658
You are really looking in the wrong places. If a shitty artist - no matter the country - tries to draw manga it will look like shit because they are shit.
If you have competent artist who have studied the craft of drawing underage girls, than you'll get competent drawings of underage girls.

And this goes for Japan too. Lots of manga has some crappy fucking art, just like with all other comics.

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>>3049658
>how to draw manga: amazon reviews

what the fuck? is this a joke?

>>3049672
raemz isn't white

>>3049663
Why would having no soul make Asians good at drawing anime?

>>3049658
To be fair, Asians aren't particularly good. If you look through manga or even hentai, you'll notice that 99% are absolute dogshit at it. Then you have some decent artists and a tiny minority of great ones. Considering it seems to be the only commercial style they go for, the number of great Japanese artists should be much higher than it is.

As for why there aren't many good manga artists in the west, it's because it's not part of our culture. While anime and manga may be a popular subculture in the west, it's something mostly teens and young adults are interested in. While a lot of western artists start out drawing anime, they eventually drift off to other styles as they mature, while in Japan people just stick to drawing anime.

Also, they idea that eastern Europeans and South Americans are good at drawing anime is patently absurd. They're probably the worst at it.

>>3049718
Maybe someone has more info but I assume that most amateur Japanese artists have studied the fundamentals by rote learning, especially with respect to anatomy. Mangaka are just another level up from the amateurs. Think of it this way, you have to be taught to walk but later on you can learn to run on your own.

>hues are good at drawing anime/manga

nigga what?

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>>3049763
rev up those amazon accounts.

>>3049658
Survivorship bias. Only good art is worth importation by the west, so westerners are only subjected to those countries' good art. Thus, westerners think those countries only have good artists.
In reality if you actually browse Asian art sites like pixiv you'll see there's an overwhelming amount of shit artists on there.
In short, everyone's bad at anime, but everyone as the potential to be good at anime, regardless of location. So no excuses.

>>3049658

South America has Japanese people. IIRC, Chile had a Japanese prime minister.

A lot, not all, but a lot of the good anime/manga artist went to art school. Just like we have cartoon and animation tracks, they have majors in anime/manga and whole schools focused to it. It certainly helps to draw manga, when you have pros teaching you, or you have access to books written by pros.

>>3049658
what fucking bullshit

source me to those eastern european manga artists or fuck off, what a fucking retarded thread, literally who cares

>>3050430
look just because you're shit at drawing manga no need to take it out on others

>>3050430
her older stuff http://exileden.deviantart.com/

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I will always have love for those first two books because they got me into drawing. Like it was obvious once I reached 10 that the books weren't great, but when I was 8 and just got it I was like 'hey this is pretty cool'. And then my friend (she and I were art rivals but actually legit best friends) started buying the how to draw (bishoujo, female game characters, magical girls, etc...) ... Between us I bet we had 95% of those books.

They come in all styles, some of them were pretty damn nice that actually included inserts from established Japanese artists and art students who wrote about what the industry is like. Others were just misshapen, poorly designed forms and blobs on the paper.

As a younger child, and into my earlier teens, I liked the art. I thought the art was good. And it sincerely helped me with designing characters. I don't consider myself to be a phenomenal artist, it's a hobby for me whereas storytelling is my forte... But there was one book where everything, every bit and piece of my soul rejected the concept of it. It is, in my opinion, the WORST how-to-draw-manga guide out there.

It is called "Draw Great MANGA A Complete Guide" by Emmett Elvin and Eugene Felder. It is perhaps the worst collection of "professionally" drawn manga instructional books I have seen. And I've seen a lot.

I would like to share this book with you. Please forgive the shoddy condition of the binding/pages, this is a little over a decade old and it's been handled quite a bit. Also, the cover is glossy because it is a hardback book, so I'm sorry about the shine.

It is a UK book published by Barnes and Noble. Which should give you some idea of what's inside.

Let's begin.

>>3050505

I need to point out something incredibly interesting about this book. A HUGE portion of the book is dedicated to teaching about anatomy and perspective. And it's good stuff. The authors have actually wonderful studies for form and anatomy, and what they don't draw out for the audience they put into text. They explain very well how muscles work, the extent of bones, and how to make things look realistic.

Had they kept this book to be about anatomy, it wouldn't be a groundbreaking installment, but it would have been way above average in terms of actual education.

They also actually provide REAL reference photos for light, as well, shining it on different faces and making them perform certain expressions. They put in the benefits of quick sketching and getting fast before you define your style. They model out things in 3D to experiment in how it translates to 2D. EXCEPT FOR THIS MISUNDERSTANDING OF MANGA ITS A GREAT BOOK.

But we're not here for anatomy or reference. We're here for their perception of "manga". Which seems to be a trend in the UK of simplifying life.

The actually recommend in the later pages of their book artistic animes. Things like Spirited Away, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Perfect Blue, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Grave of the fucking Fireflies (feel like that movie would have had a happier ending if it was called that).

That almost makes what's to come far more heinous than what it should be. They know about good stuff, they should have known better than whatever the hell this is. They have done what seems like an almost intentional disservice to the genre.

Enjoy these pictures while you can, friends, this is the high of the book. Buckle up.

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>>3050514
forgot my image like a fuckin knob

>>3049658
Yep, I don't know why but mexicans are even better than white people, go search up youtube tutorials on how to draw anime and they could do better than a white person studying to draw for 2 years.
I'm guessing this guy is right>>3049663

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>>3050515
We open with this. A doodle of a girl holding a pencil explaining who this book is for. The text opens with:

"This is a very different book from the run-of-the-mill Manga how-tos that you may have read already. ... The vast majority of these books maintain a similar formula which asks the reader to follow, or even copy, a series of steps enabling a reasonable result."

Couldn't agree more. Again, I owned a fuck ton of these how-to's back in the day, most of the books by English/American authors said 'this is what you do, exactly how you do it. change the hair if you want, but keep everything else the same.' I want to show you guys another book that does it that way, but now's not that time.

They go on to say, and I continue to quote: "We have aimed a lot deeper. The basics were covered in our book, 'Beginner's Manga: a Step-by-Step Guide', where we provided readers- regardless of their ability- with the principles to get them started."

...I've never read that book.

Continuing, "This volume, however, assumes the reader is already familiar with those ideas and is now ready to move on to the next level."

So we've established this is for beginner-intermediate manga artists. But then... Why are you going into such anatomy detail now? Why not make that your first book? Well, I guess it alienates the normie crowd, they don't want to be """"bombarded with technicalities""""" they just want to try out something new. Fair enough.

They continue to talk about this, just elaborating, and again. The written points are well-said. They talk about building up characters and how much better a well-studied one is to something that "has been splurged straight onto the page".

But then they say, "Add your enthusiasm to our inspiration and solid framework and there is no reason why you, the reader, should not become a successful Manga artist."

Let's move on to section 0.1. I know you guys want bad art, trust me, it is coming.

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>>3050520
So then we start getting into what looks like an 11 year old's DeviantART.

This... I don't...

HOW THE FUCK... Do you have such a wonderful, comprehensive understanding of anatomy and perspective, and then shit out this garbage? I don't understand. And we're not even towards the end, this immediately follows the first part.

I would bet money that one of the guys who wrote the book was a legitimate artist. Who studied for years, who had his fingers bleed from his craft... And the other just wanted to draw his waifu.

Why do I think that? Because RIGHT AFTER THIS HORSE SHIT THERE'S MORE GOOD STUFF. There's an entire back-front page dedicated to the study and anatomy of the fucking eye. I REFUSE to believe that someone with such a thorough knowledge of this created... What you see here.

Also, in addition to that 'waifu' comment... Well. You'll see.

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>>3050528

Fucking shit.

This is a little snippet of the eye study, followed by body perspective as well as a HUGE article about the importance from drawing from real life.

I... I don't get what's happening. It's like a dad and his kid. These are two grown men WITH AT LEAST ONE OTHER BOOK THAT'S BEEN PUBLISHED.

Also, see that face with the red box around it? My computer's shit webcam recognized that as a human face and put the little viewfinder on it. Didn't happen with the other shit I just posted.

They finish up the section by talking about medium like pencil/pen and ink... And I just am ready for the emotional rollercoaster of consistently being amped up and let down that this book will provide me.

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>>3050535
So then you get to section 0.2

And... You're met by this guy and his thing. And you're instantly put into the world of drawing nuts and bolts because...? I don't...? What?

OH NO WAIT, it was actually a cover-up for some wonderful perspective training. I know these pictures are pretty shit for seeing detail (even though there's not really... any), but the text, once again, is brilliant in technique.

So why the fuck is this Doc rip-off in here?

And wait, doesn't that girl in the bottom left picture look familiar?

Hmmmm....

The chapter goes on to do light studies as well, including the reference photo I mentioned earlier. It talks about angle and it's average in teaching people what to do.

This book also seems to be obsessed with studying 3D and perspective, and knowing anatomy. But look at this fucking "Manga" shit. It actually makes sense to me that one guy is riding off of his friend's talent and keeps shoving his OCs in there.

Because if you think we've seen the last of them, you'd be wrong.

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>>3050561

Section 0.3 is... Mecha? No, it's about digital art? And shading? I think?

You're about to find out that they can't get that right, either.

They talk about mech for a little bit, because Gundam I guess, and then talk about shading, creating tones, textures... One part of the book tries to teach you about shading with values but then the Manga strikes back.

They still capitalize that word.

But hang on a minute cuz it's about to get weird... Literally right after the last picture there they've given us the luxury of having COLOR INSERTS. Take a moment to quiver in anticipation, they're coming in the next post.

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>>3049658
Want a real answer? Simple, decades (centuries if you count the Edo Period) of artistic conditioning have allowed the Japanese to develop an intricate and odd but recognizable art style by emphasizing certain aspects of art.

For example, the large eyes you see in most anime is an evolution of Osamu Tezuka's representation of eyes, itself borrowed from Disney cartoons.

Most Japanese art seems to emphasize attractive shapes, contour, color and occasionally, perspective, meanwhile anatomy and form seem to take a backseat but aren't entirely absent.

Westerners tend to hold in high regard techniques that allude to realism.

Of course, there are exceptions in both sides, but the general rule is that the west values realism and the east values attractive design.

tl:dr: it's a cultural thing.

>>3049658
because anime/manga are drawings of asian people, duh

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>>3050578

They try to teach you about color theory, but wouldn't that be something for beginners?

Why even try to make it educational at this point? You're putting in these inserts for the sake of just having color but why do you NEED the color theory, aren't we supposed to know it already.

In case you didn't notice, there's a gaggle of OCs at the bottom of the page. For anyone that's wondering, the little white box has some text in it that reads: "This page: a perfectly serviceable design for a Manga cover. Opposite: the same components, but treated far more radically."

...I guess adding dimensions and black Moroccan designs is radical.

WAIT HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY SHADED THE ARM OF ONE CHARACTER NEVER MIND 10/10 100% A+ IMPROVEMENT GROUNDBREAKING

My spirit has all but been crushed. I would like to remind everyone once more: These are professionals who have at least one other art book published.

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>>3050585
They put this thing about the Manga eye in there after having that wonderful section about eye anatomy earlier... It's just dots. I know you can't see very well with my shitcam, but I promise you. It's just dots.

Because I feel like the other pages of color are literally the same thing, only with the light section applied (it's just outlines of the other stuff filled in with color), I won't include them. I'm just going to read what they have here:

"Every Manga artist has their own approach to rendering eyes in color.

Here, the iris first had graduated yellow/green tones applied. Note the tone is brightest at the center. The lowlights under the upper eyelid were then created.

A noise filter was then applied to the iris, followed by a mild gaussian blur. This gives a good, speckley effect similar to a real eye.

Lastly, the highlights werer added with the simple use of an airbrush. The hardness level was set to 80."

...Did you fucking do this in paint.net?

This actually makes more sense.

Unfortunately the guy who draws like a child can't apply his friend's knowledge of shadow and values, as we see the inconsistencies in the bottom right image.

Also they talk about chrome for a little bit.

Let's just keep moving on.

>>3050590
That book is a complete clusterfuck, keep going anon.

Growing up having to learn how to write kanji probably has something to do with it.

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>>3050590
Section 4 is my favorite section... But that's not saying a lot. I'm only going to include one picture, but I'll tell you about the chapter itself.

Chapter 4 has more mech, but it's not hiding under the guise of being poorly toned images. They actually have 3D and irl models of robots that they're taking reference from. They talk about joints being simplified enough to repeat over and over without looking terrible. Again. The text is great. These guys know what they're TALKING about. I'm convinced this part was written by the guy who can draw. They actually take a page or two to talk about how a lobster is built, its underneath, and it sounds fucking stupid but it's one of the most insightful things in this book in terms of joints, anatomy, and hinge placement/function.

Two pages about a fucking lobster's legs. This is what I'm excited about.

Now... The picture. This is the last image in the section. There's a big fucking robot killing everyone and this guy looks like he's telling his friend 20 feet away what kind of sandwich he wants from Subway.

...This isn't manga. It might be Manga, but it's not manga. Manga is about the characters, as you've said in the beginning. It's about the fully fleshed understanding about form and anatomy, about build. So why are we wasting all this time on things that should have been covered in your first book? Yes, it's important to include more details as you go along. It's called helping your readers grow as artists. And had you eliminated these autist sketches, your book could have stood alone as a great technique book.

It's almost like they didn't know what to publish. Either that, or their publisher was like 'wtf is this shit its like kids this wont sell', so they hired someone with talent last minute to pump this thing full of information.

But, again, that's not manga. This is just a clusterfuck.

How far are we in? About 130 pages left with .2 sections to go? Okay... Just tell me what section 0.5 is.

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>>3050606
So section 5 happens, and we're 132 pages into the book. We have just now started talking about panel layouts and page composition.

They start on the first page by saying "Graphic Innovation". No. No, no no, no. No. There's nothing 'innovation' about what you've done here. We're reading a manga book about manga and it's taken you 132 pages to get to composition and layout. Fuck you.

It then talks about pane(lol)ogy and it looks like panelology is the science of fucking shit up. At least that's what it looks like to me.

It talks about layout and then it half-asses some mascot characters. They talk about text boxes and typography, which again it's probably the artist who actually did those sections because they have substance to them. Not a lot, but I have a feeling that everyone's given up at this point.

I mean there's not much else to say, just look at it.

>>3049658
jesus how many times are we going to have this thread? You fucking asked this same exact question last fucking month

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>>3050627

So... I want to talk about this. This is the final panel of the chapter, and as you can probably tell there are some familiar faces in here.

There's a mouth that looks more like a mask, there's a 'queep' that misled me so many times over the years, and there's "dynamic" that just does nothing. It's not interesting.

This is supposed to be a manga book about advanced layout. This is a book for people who already have skills. So why does it look like this? Who did this? Who is responsible for this?

But I want to talk about the last section, the subjectively best section in this book. The last section is about the shit art guy's OCs. Literally, he's taken the entire crew from here: >>3050585 (bottom of page) and shows off custom art, personalities, and character traits. It's an entire chapter dedicated to his characters.

So... I'm actually kind of a big snob when it comes to character design. Not the quality of the art, but the formation and birth of a character. I pride myself on making good characters, I've worked on character design for years and I take my work seriously. I feel like I'm about to go into this section very biased and possibly bitchy. So I'm going to address it honestly. I'm going to type out the notes for each character and post all relevant art.

With that said, I understand someone taking your 2D babies and putting them under the microscope for all to see in a final, published product. And clearly this guy wants us to see his characters, they've been in the whole damn book. Let's see if this guy's done them justice.

Last section in next post.

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>>3050635

Alright, let's get into it, section 0.6. Character creation. Arguably one of the most important things about manga creation and you've waited 148 pages to introduce us to it? GOOD THING WE'RE THE ADVANCED CROWD.

In all seriousness let's get started, because there's a lot wrong here and I'm losing my patience with this book.

The chapter starts off with the title "Personality crisis". It explains that for the "Manga" creator a character could be a new kind of problem. That... Seems like something you tell your beginner audience. Again. But you know what, fine, I can understand why people would have problems building compelling characters even after some experience. My shit went through about 15 wash cycles before I got it where I wanted it. It's understandable.

The book goes on to say, "Character creation usually begins with the idea of an archetype. This is a particular type of character with one powerful and clearly defined characteristic. ... Needless tosay, these archetypes are just a starting point. If the characters are naked expressions of these types, they will come across as blunt and unengaging."

Again, totally agree. Worded as well as it can be worded. It is okay and even encouraged in some cases to have one base element for your character and then build off of that. When you have a myriad of complex characters with a million different things going on, your story will suffer. A generic character isn't always a bad one, but you can't just shit out tropes and expect them to do well.

The following goes: "This chapter takes several very different characters, and using both images and words, rounds them out to create fully-formed, ready-for-action personalities."

So far, this looks to be incredibly promising. Sure, it's OCs. And they're poorly drawn OCs. But if this guy's seriously working up to what is a difficult facet of manga production with good characteristics, then that's not really a bad thing right off.

Let's give him a chance.

because (ignoring deviant art artiats) they actually are. the main differences in style come from the method of training. anime style is based off approximation and shortcuts. western style seeks perfection only which can ship out terrible art.

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>>3050652
...Now. The graphics. The pictures are pencil sketchbook drawings on shit paper.

But we just want the OC, right?

"Zuza

Age: 19

Height: 5ft 11"

Full Name: Zuza Blank

I.Q. 159

Government Status: Fugitive with CPO (Capture Priority Order).

Background: Orphaned at two years old. Taken in by M.E.B. (Mammalian Enhancement Bureau) and underwent nano-prosthetic surgery at age 15. Extensive training in espionage and unarmed combat.

Enhancements: Mk 3 protonium gauntlet with onboard intelliprobe hacker software."

I don't know what to say. I lack the intelligence to respond properly to that. You gave us her backstory, her immediate details... But at the same time, an orphan that's now a teenager with weird powers... That's like the basis for nearly all of edgy protagonists. Is Zuza edgy? I don't know. It doesn't tell me. She's got an above average IQ, does that mean anything? I dunno. But, you know what, there are actually more notes about her on the page opposite of that. Let's see what they tell us.

"Top left is the first sketch made for Zuza. She has some qualities we're looking for, but is a little too "womanly." We're after someone whose physique is more teenage and lithe.

The bottom two images are much more like it. Narrower hips help the teenage look and her hair is more interesting.

The top middle head drawing shows the first working out of Zuza's hairstyle."

...This is incorrect. You told me that you were going to give me examples of complete characters. This was a promise made to the reader in the prologue. But I know nothing about her. I don't know her motivation, her personality... You've just given me an expression sheet. That's not an in-depth look at a human being's psyche.

I WAITED 150 PAGES FOR THIS.

You know what, okay. A protagonist is often supposed to be one-dimensional because it allows the audience to project themselves onto them. The supporting cast usually has more room to be vibrant. Let's see what they have to offer.

>>3050606
>good luck im behind 7 proxies!

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>>3050667
"Gogs

Age: 20

Height: 5ft 3"

Full Name: Brendan Cassady

IQ: 137

Government status: Fugitive. Not currently subject of CPO.

Background: pacifist and friend of Zuza since elementary school. Helped plan and execute Zuza's escape from facility Q. Mechanical/electrical genius. Successfully immobilized several government Pacifier droids be remote during the Manzoni riots.

Enhancements: none"

Nope. No sir, giving your characters background information without explaining terminology does not give us well-rounded characters. You're telling me what shaped him, but you're not telling me how it shaped him. The friend that helped the main character and is now the sidekick/love interest is not a characteristic.

Maybe the character notes on the other page will be more helpful than this horse shit.

"The original sketches for the mechanic character were almost unrecognizable from the character Gogs became.

However he looked a little too ordinary. Making him a goatee toting albino gave him an unmistakable look."

WHAT THE FUCK THE PRELIMINARY SKETCH LOOKS BETTER THAN THE FINAL PRODUCT. I believe that boy is a 20 year old engineer, I don't believe this Back to the Future fuckwad is anything other than garbage. THE FIRST DESIGN IS THE BETTER DESIGN.

You're telling me that you made him albino for his image, but you've already got a fucking main character. It's like they don't understand the premise of a supporting cast. I know I might be being a bit mean, but fuck me THESE GUYS HAVE AT LEAST ONE OTHER BOOK OUT AND THIS ONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE ADVANCED CLASS.

If you're going to make him albino that doesn't make him unique. Albinism is a fucked up condition when you read it, it causes some heavy shit, and you can use THAT to your advantage. But a worse, less believable costume and white hair does NOT make your character better ARE WE SURE A CHILD DIDN'T WRITE THIS? NO? IT WAS AN ADULT THAT GOT PAID MONEY? FUCK.

Fucking next page, let's just get it done.

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>>3050680
"Pandam-3J

Age: 11/28

Height: 6ft 1"

Full name: Pandam-3J

IQ: 132

Government status: Missing, declared destroyed.

Background: Pandam-3L is the result of MEB's ground-breaking work in cross-species enhancement. After a string of costly and largely fatal experiments, the first successful mind-transplant was performed between a human and a panda.

Enhancements: Almost every aspect of Pandam-3J, save the head, has received enhancement."

...I want you to know that your panda has less substance than Klaus the goldfish in American Dad. I don't think I need to elaborate on how shit this is? So what does the other side of the page say?

"The initial idea of putting a panda in a mobile suit soon began to create problems, not least regarding the rotund shape of the bear. Most operators of such suits are svelte, compact people and for good reason.

Going the cyborg route, I didn't have enough "pandaness". It was only when the shoulders were moved up and his body made more "roly-poly" that he started to feel right."

Okay... So this identifies a physical design problem and how the author solved it. I'm actually okay with this. I still think this is dumb, but this paragraph is probably the best we've gotten out of this section so far.

Also, stick to drawing pandas in suits. It's the best thing in here, but you didn't have to set the bar very high on that one.

Two more, and then we can not want to commit suicide any more.

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>>3050692
>>3050692
"Tomoko

Age: Unknown

Height: 3ft 2"

Full Name: Tomoko Takahashi

IQ: 168

Government Status: Unknown

Background: Any attempts to lure information out of this tiny, super-smart girl/lady have been in vain. Refuses to discuss any aspect of the past, even what happened yesterday. Mans the controls at Monkeypop Terminal with unerring authority.

Enhancements: unknown"

Do I really need to tell you how this is going to go? Let's just get to the text on the next page.

"More than any of the other characters, Tomoko arrived on the paper almost fully formed. She needed a traditional but timeless feel, as well as an aura of playful mystery.

Billie Holiday came to mind when the single lotus in the hair was added. Sometimes if something works, why question it?"

You know what Billie Holiday and Tomoko have in common? A fucking flower in their hair on occasion. Fuck you.

So, I'm not going to talk about why this is terrible, you all know what's wrong with it. Instead I want to touch on what he said when he wrote that she came on the page fully formed.

I took this to mean that he drew the design to the character before he gave the character any traits. Is this a bad thing? No. Not at all. It could actually be argued that this is a good thing. If she really won't talk about shit that happened even yesterday (which is... it just is), then we probably won't get to know much of her personality anyway. Therefore, visual cues can be helpful, as well as colors, styles, and designs.

But you need to find the balance between image and blatant insert. You can't rely only on that design to get you through your story. Now, you can push through with props and environment, which would be the smart thing to do.

Unfortunately the kimono on a girl named Tomoko living in a tower doesn't work. And the super smart girl/lady that's small? You've already thought of five anime with that character trope.

Let's see the next page, I'm not fucking around anymore.

>>3050505
>Draw Great MANGA A Complete Guide
this 5 star amazon review seems to disagree with you:

>This is definitely a book for people who already have experience drawing manga and want to take it to the next level. It includes a fairly detailed look at anatomy, gesture drawing, foreshortening, rotation and perspective, lighting tone and coloring, use of graphics programs, character development and layout and design. Though only 190 pages, it really packs in the info and is, for me anyway, an invaluable reference.

What are some of the better "How to draw anime/manga" books?
I've only heard of the awful ones, are there any actually good ones?

>>3050561
those nuts and bolts are cute btw

>>3050717
none because theyre never useful

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>>3050698
So I think we're pretty positive that we won't be getting what we were promised. How much did I pay for this new? $8 on sale?

"Zarkoz

Age: 32

Full Name: Geoff Mussorsky

Government Status: Fugitive with a CPO out

Background: the horned thing that was once Geoff Mussorsky is the result of illegal abuse of equipment and facilities inside MEB by an over-ambitious bioneer. Although terrifying, his look is achieved purely through bio-tech. Mussorsky has lost his mind and is convinced he is Zarkoz, Lord of the Damned.

Enhancements: numerous"

The author has given up.

"Here's another character that arrived almost fully-formed.

When you need a real powerful basket-case type, there's nothing quite like a pair of big, fat horns to say "evil".

The first draft at the top left didn't quite have that hugeness so the shoulders were widened and he was generally bulked out.

The cloven tootsies were just too good to resist."

First of all, fuck you. I feel like I can't stress that enough.

That is not how villains work. We are the advanced class, did you forget? We know this. A good villain is more than just a pair of horns, and instead of giving us characters with substance you've just thrown out hollow husks. What, are you afraid someone's going to steal your OC idea? No one wants your garbage.

To say a character is fully-formed by their appearance alone is bullshit. And the only reason it worked for the previous one is because I assumed she was to be a minor character. But a villain, a major drive against the protagonists, should NEVER be treated this way.

Look, if this was some 11 year old kid, I wouldn't care. But this is a grown man who has been published MANY TIMES. I actually have a book on dragons that he's done and it is legitimately good. But this is garbage.

So I've moaned and bitched and showed you pretty much the whole book. That's about it.

I want to know who is responsible for this shitstorm. And I think I do.

>>3050590
I hbelieve the technical term for that eye is "pepe eye"

So, /ic/, what are some good 日本語 how to manga books? (translator note: 日本語 means nihongo) (translator note: nihongo means japanese) (translator note: japanese is the language spoken in japan)

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>>3050726
This book was written/drawn by two people: Emmett Elvin and Eugene Felder.

Emmett Elvin has published a lot of these books, ranging from dragons, to cartoons, to manga. And from looking at the consistent art styles, I can tell you with a TON of confidence that the art issues all stem from him. His beginner how-to-draw-manga book is embarrassing.

But then what about the good stuff? What about the useful anatomy, the lighting and 3D references, all of that? Well, when you take a look at Mr. Felder's history, it looks like he's got two works that stand out. This book, and another called 'Still Life Fundamentals'.

I think we know who's doing all the work.

Elvin is an author who just pumps out work, over and over, and some people may see that as a successful author. He is not. All of the low ratings that complain about the art are stemming from him. The good ratings talking about the references are coming from Felder.

The only useful thing in this book are the references, and to be honest they have nothing to do with creating manga. The only actually manga-specific parts of this book are at the very end and have less than 30 pages dedicated to them.

It looks like Elvin and Felder have worked together on multiple occasions. Their work is on Amazon, if you want to look. It looks like Felder is taking the opportunity to experiment and try new things while Elvin stays in the realm of 11 year old internet users. He is pretty okay at some animals and dragons/beasts, but his "Manga" is disgraceful.

This shit is from the early 2000s and forward, too, there is no excuse for... THIS.

Although I will say his work is pretty great for reaction images.

It's like a low budget Christopher Hart. And now I'm done talking about the man.

>>3049658
>whether it be China, Taiwan, Korea, Thailand or Indonesia
It's worth noting that for a very long time, none of those countries had the means and resources to produce their own domestic animation, despite being outsource hubs. The only animation, what the kids copied and trained from, was Japanese anime. I remember back when Japanese things were technically banned in Taiwan several decades ago, there were still anime in every betamax video rental shop and pirated manga being sold on the street. Doraemon, Fist of the North Star, these were all more popular than Mickey Mouse there.

>>3050733
I personally like some of the sketching manga style books it's nothing insane but it points you in the direction I guess you could say? Honestly if you want to learn to draw a manga style study it. Find an artist you like and study his works while simultaneously practicing your fundamentals
http://artist-refs.tumblr.com/post/67269980908/how-to-draw-manga-sketching-manga-style-vol-1-5

>>3050763
those aren't japanese books.

>>3050768
Written and drawn by chinks and translated to English if I recall don't see how it wouldnt be a jap book

>>3050768
wow its like you cant read at all! plus thats more an argument against ops point, since this style is shit yet its written by a japanese person

>>3050790
>>3050803
>don't see how it wouldnt be a jap book
i asked for
>... the language spoken in japan
not "books written by japanese people", if anything, the japanese books would be the 作画のための考えるデッサン series

>wow its like you cant read at all
looks like you can't read
>plus thats more an argument against ops point
again, can you read? where have i given you the impression that i give a shit about op's point?

>>3050132
that was peru anon

>>3050734
I bet the book was almost fully made by the terrible guy and then the publisher/editor wanted to add more substantial stuff to it. So they probably took the words and information from either the good guy's other books, or other ones that were in the draft stages and slapped them in there.

>>3049663
>west has no culture

we do, it's just turned to shit because of niggers.

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>>3054090
Speaking of black people, why are they so much better at drawing manga style than whites?

>>3054108

While that's true for whatever reason that guy drew his ass off and is top of his class.

>>3054108
Do you know any other black artist that isn't LeSean?

>>3054195

yes, I have a personal list

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>>3054200
What kind of answer is that?

I was asking for names

>>3054202
oh

>>3054209
are you not going to share or were you just talking out of your ass or something?

>>3054222
yes

>>3049672
>It's not the 00's anymore

This. I can't fathom how someone born in 2000 sees the world as you've pretty much always had the internet widely available and pretty much everyone from everywhere uses it.

I still remember in the early 2000's in high school having to use the fucking library for home work because not everyone dumped all information on every subject ranging from retarded bullshit to legit academic sources on the internet.

Trying to learn how to draw, especially with anime really getting a significant audience in the US in the late 90's and early 2000's meant scouring web rings full of shitty geocities, tripod, and angelfire sites made by other people who became interested in it around the same time and were self taught.

>>3054202

Please explain how:

>Do you know any other black artist that isn't LeSean?

is exactly the same as:

>Could you please name other black artists besides LeSean?


Do not get offended if you're unable to properly form a question.

>>3050734
Thanks for taking your time to research and write this down. It's really bizarre if you ask me.

>>3054108
Dunno what that's about actually. Some niggers really love them some anime for some reason.

>>3049658
>>3049663
>>3049718
>>3049701
>>3049664

It doesn't help that the public education system for the united states treats art as an afterthought.

A product of the industrial revolution in Britain I'm afraid.

Education as we know it was designed by people who owned factories, who decided that the emphasis on education should go to mathematics and sciences, things that are useful to know when working in a factory. Then follows English and History, because those are fairly important in general. Lastly came everything else.

It's also the reason why school has been described as miserable for younger children. It's run virtually like a factory.

Art has been for generations in the United States and the majority of the west treated as a dumb throwaway class that doesn't accomplish anything.

>>3055659
Not the other anon, but it's not exactly the same, it's just obviously implied.
How did you not see it?
>Do not get offended if you're unable to properly form a question.
Ah you are one of those... makes sense now

>>3054108
because they have high amount of chickens in their diet??

>>3056078
You should eat more chicken if you want to get even a 1/10th close to blacks skill then.

Trained by parents to be able to stay in and do repetitive tasks for extended periods of time.

When I first immigrated to the US, I was surprised but how free my peers were at school. They went to each other's houses all the time, stayed out after school, went to the mall, etc etc. It was expected that I stayed in my room and studied, especially during these "crucial years" (meaning 1-18).

>>3049686
East seems more likely to do illustrations outside of and text overlaid on the panels. West uses panels as a means of detached viewing. Japan uses panels as a single aspect of creating the emotion that's trying to be invoked.

>>3050515
That bottom middle skull is laughably bad.

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>>3049658

This might be kinda off topic but i have always wondered why more advanced rendering isn't more popular? Is this because of influence of comics/manga? You always see really great linework, but when it comes to rendering, it seems to be much rarer skill. I mean, i see many great artists with absolutely stunning linework, but many don't go beyond that. Rendering more doesn't exactly mean that you're going for more realistic/human look, but this is what many people seem to think.

>>3056605
Because rendering takes a lot of time.

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Yhis is kind of manga related, but I want to know whats the best way to draw these effect or sketch lines they usually have around punches or explosions in manga. Do they draw the general shape first then draw all those little sketch lines seperately? Maybe there are some books or videos on the subject?

>>3049658
ShindoL got so good at it he moved to Japan

>>3050528
Oh God, it hurts

Thank you for dumping btw, anon

>>3049663
>they are missing a key human element that every people have: Soul.
>every people have

Way to contradict yourself dumbass

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>>3049658
There were a shit ton of amazing artists that started with these things.

The HowToDrawManga website is how I learned photoshop 5.0. The free Jdillon tutorials online were amazing.

I don't remember all the artists that hung around the howtodrawmanga forums but I know Olly Moss started there as well.

>>3050717
get how to draw normal realistic human anatomy then start studying anime styles yourself

>>3056010
It is interesting that the high point of Western oil painting was from about 1550-1850. West, Copley, Stuart and Peale were erased by the great photographers and illustrators. Even great American painters like Edward Hopper bear the influence of illustration more than anything else.

>>3050579
Yes, it's always said that the Western artists do organization best, while the East focuses on ornamentation. I think we could use more artists frankly, if they can manage to organize something about the way we live now.

>>3050528
I NEED that fucking book

>>3063470
You can buy it used for like $3.

I wouldn't pay any more than that for this... Thing.

>>3064690
it'll probably be a future meme in the year 2050 and worth thousands of bitcoin after japan stops producing anime