The one video that can save /ic/

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tl;dw:
>look at your drawings with a critical eye
>surround yourself with people who are better than you
>don't talk back to criticism
>analyze the criticism and make the most out of it
basically don't be a Dobson. Not very eye-opening, tbqh.

>>3039096
Yep, that's pretty much it.
It doesn't have to be an eye-opening revelation. These are just ideas that if people on this board took to heart, there would be a lot more productivity and less rage/shitposting/off-topic threads/replies.

>>3039139
it's 4chan, you won't change the culture of this shithole, but there are a lot of places online where you could find this kind of criticism

>>3039148
This is true.
> but there are a lot of places online where you could find this kind of criticism

Where? Artstation? are there other good art forums out there?
I know some youtubers who have their own following and have critique sessions. But the only other place I know of is conceptart.org and that went down the drain. Drawcrowd seems interesting, but I haven't registered. Do you know of good places? Can be any art forum you know.

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>>3039096
>roman tomboy

That's not a tomboy, that's a literal boy. A literal boy who get's fucked in the ass.

>>3039195
I refuse to believe you unless you can provide evidence of said assfucking.

>>3039210
joel jurion
french po-ju basically

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>>3039226
merci beaucoup

>>3038844
There are two major caveats here.
>surround yourself with better artists
>ask for specifics

This is something much of /ic/ is not, and can rarely provide.

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>>3039226
>french po-ju
Oh boy I know what I'm doing tonight, thank you anon.

>>3038844
Most amateurs on /ic/ don't want to improve though. They just want a place to post their shitty work to get praises. Few will listen to critique, the rest will ignore, deflect, or take it as a personal attack.

Draw it anime style.

>>3039356
>Posting for praises
>On /ic/

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any good cute guy ero comics that arent about fucking little boys or large hairy men?

>>3042355
no you degenerate fuck

>>3039148
>but there are a lot of places online where you could find this kind of criticism
give me an example

I'm not gay.

:(

>>3038844
I don't agree with a lot of things he's talking about. Especially the "yeah but" thing. There is no reason to just blindly accept someone's "Advice". What if they are wrong? What's so bad about questioning the information being given to you?

I never understood that. Why do you have to take everyone's advice? What the fuck makes them so much more qualified than you? Are you always wrong? Should you always doubt your decision making? What's so bad about explaining your decision making? Doing so might even expand into better ideas than what was originally said in the crit.

People lose their fucking shit if someone turns down advice. A lot of "mistakes" are what make paintings something really special.

>>3039240
>surround yourself with better artists
This uh... what happens if you are the "better artist." This doesn't work by definition.
>>3039356
>post their shitty work to get praises.
Where the fuck do you think you are?

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>>3039226

This ain't what I signed up for

>>3042390
If an Art Director tells you, "that lighting and color scheme isn't working. Maybe something warmer might work better."

You don't say, "yeah but what I have going on here is cool"
You change it according to the AD's vision.

Like he said, once you say "yeah but," it's over for you. You've instantly shown that other people's input doesn't matter in your eyes, and ruined your rep. It may not seem like a bad idea: you've spent 25hrs working on a painting that got approved only for the AD to say, change it completely. Of course you'd want to defend your time well spent. However in the eyes of the studio as a whole, defending your work just slows the process down. Slowing down in such a fast environment such as video games or the even faster film studio is actually very costly.

However, if you're more of a freelance illustrator, again you do what the client says. If they say do something different, you do it. It definitely is more flexible when it's just you. If you know that what they're suggesting is bad, you do the bad version but also suggest a better version at the same time. Even more so, you can even put it in a contract how many revisions a client gets before you start charging extra (if you so choose).

Critique isn't about being wrong or right. A critique is a conversation between two people with different tastes, perspectives, styles, etc. It may not even be an artist critiquing you. A critique is a chance to witness your work through the eyes of others. A fresh set of eyes that might see a totally different meaning than what was intended. Critiques are merely suggestions that are intended to make the piece stronger. Don't think of it as someone is wrong, think of it as a process to get the absolute best out of your work.

>What's so bad about explaining your decision making?

You MUST say EXACTLY what you intended within the piece BEFORE you open it up to critique. Otherwise, it's a lost cause. And if you bring it up then you'll get nowhere fast.

>>3042525
>Don't think of it as someone is wrong, think of it as a process to get the absolute best out of your work.

That's not how things work though. Most of the time, your art director or client isn't some god tier artist who knows exactly what he's doing. I mean, I agree with you that you shouldn't talk back if you're being paid to do a job and instead just bite your tongue and do what they tell you to. But you will most definitely NOT end up with the absolute best work you could. That's what frustrates so many good artists in the first place, they know the revisioned work is an inferior version of their original vision. There's a reason why the art direction of so many movies and AAA games these days looks like utter shit and when you see early concepts of a project people go "wow, that looked great, what happened?".

I've been trying to surround myself with good artists for almost ten years now. The "scene" is very cliquey and while most people are decent enough to reply to your mails and such, they won't just let you join their circle, unless it's obvious you're about to become the next big thing. I managed to become good enough to make a living anyway but it's pretty tough and lonely with no genuine connections in the industry.

The way I see it, it's best if you surround yourself with young and eager artists right from the start so that you can grow together and help each other out along the way. I observed this in other artists, who got serious around the same time I did. I hate to admit it, but I'm very jealous of the comradery they enjoy. Skip what I tried to do and learn from my mistakes. I'm too old now to hang out with young artists and too much of a known outcast to be part of a social circle within the industry.

>>3042355
mentaiko ofc
check out his priapus series

>>3042550
Remember that being a concept artist comes with the responsibility of representing the AD's vision/idea into reality. Unless you're a senior concept artist, can really get into the AD's head, or you've been around in the studio for a very long time, your viewpoint doesn't -really- matter. For example if you're given the task to figure out designs for octopus military armor within the COD universe. You're free to come up with whatever shape design/color palette/etc you feel necessary. Just don't return with 15 sketches of Tiger military armor or even 15 sketches of octo-armor within the Disney Infinity universe because it "looked cool to me." However there is nothing wrong with suggesting ideas when you've already explored the vast opportunities of the original idea. That is actually really encouraged cause it shows not only can you deliver, but you can deliver more than they thought. Which looks good for you and gives more ideas for them.

It does suck, but that's what the job entails. Unless you're in the super early preproduction phase, or are a super important asset, you won't be calling the big shots.

I'd argue that what differs between a good and a pro artist is how well they can take a "bad" critique/idea and actually make it look good. For the sake of the studio, the artist's job security, and credibility to deliver. And like you said, a lot of the time it is the ADs fault, but other times it's system and engine limitations and time constraints that also tend to make things look bad or unfinished.

>>3042857
>the AD's vision/idea into reality.
You are 100% wrong here.

The job of a concept artist is to represent EVERYONE'S vision. To work as a team. To communicate ideas visually.

A good team works together. A good team discusses ideas, share ideas, and listens to one another. Everyone can have an influence in the project, whatever is. Of course, every project is different and there will be varying degrees of freedom.

ADs are really meant as middle men. They know how to talk "artist" and "producer". They work WITH the other artists and coordinates them. This involves giving and taking feedback. Everyone on the team has a wide range of skillsets, experiences, and knowledge that can be used to help the project. You would have to be a fucking idiot to hire a team of experts and not let them do what they do best. Be creative.

>>3042525
>You change it according to the AD's vision.
No, you don't. You explain your thought process and they do the same. Whoever comes up with the better argument is the advice you implement.

DO you really just blindly accept any and all feedback you're given?

Can you imagine if artists like Manet did that? "Geeze Manet why do you paint such mundane shit? Also, your perspective is shit on that painting of a threesome. You should change one of the most famous paintings of all time because I said so.

or Degas? "Geez Degas, don't you know composition? Why do you put so much worthless NOTHING in your paintings? Why would you just paint the legs of the dancers? Why not the figure? Don't you know what you're doing? Why do you have a bunch of sketchy lines over anything? You shouldn't put "lines" in your art."

or Van Gogh? "You're using way too much paint there man, tone it down some. Learn some fucking perspective you fucking noob."

You're a fucking tool.

>>3043363
You're missing the point.

>>3043351
Literally the first search result defining a concept artist:
"producing the illustrations that help Production Designers realise their vision." It doesn't say realize YOUR vision; It's their vision. I will say that you are definitely interpreting their ideas and using the most of your abilities to design something that THEY (and you/anyone) can get excited about. I think that's where the confusion is in this discussion.

A critique is not an attack of your personally as an artist or your artistic ability. Rather it is a concise description of possible suggestions that might make your piece better. It's not about being right and wrong. Like the guy said in the video, you just take the critique and analyze it yourself. If you then apply your interpretation of the critique, you might surprised. If it's obvious it won't work, then yeah you could probably omit some things. But since digital art is necessary for working in this industry it is not hard to at least TRY their suggestion. You could even include it in a sheet to say that you even tried that "route" but fell at a dead end.
I am sure that indie studios/devs must rely more on their artists because they just don't have knowledge of what art style works or whatever. AAA companies, have entire design teams with a concept lead managing the whole group. He gets the brief and sends it to the junior/senior positions within the team. Designers do their work and submit them to the concept lead who checks them over and sometimes does an overpainting if it's not a grear design. The concept lead then takes that to the project leads and presents the team's ideas as a whole and then gets a critique there too.

>Everyone on the team has a wide range of skillsets, experiences, and knowledge that can be used to help the project
Right, except that any studio that doesn't need jacks of all trades, would rather have many specialized artists working specifically on certain things.

>>3043363
It seems that you see the critique process as a conversation between two equals, but that's not the case. They are the authority, because THEY give and YOU receive. When you receive something, whether it's a feedback or a Christmas gift, your instant reply is a 'thank you', not a 'yeabut'.
>Honey I bought you new socks
>Yea but I'd really prefer them in blue color..
>...
Afterwards (unless they're paying you) you can decide not to implement that feedback or not wear those socks, but if you do that right in front of that person, you're discouraging them from further giving you Christmas presents.

>>3042525
This, this and once more this.

>>3043363
Those are all fine artists though.
You should be a fine artist when you're working on personal work in your free time, but not when you have an AD or a commissioner putting up with your shit.

And you missed the last paragraph -
>You MUST say EXACTLY what you intended within the piece BEFORE you open it up to critique. Otherwise, it's a lost cause.
That's the one and only right time to explain your vision.

>>3043846
geez man, people aren't gonna read such a block of text with no guarantee that there's a point at the end.

>>3039096
>don't talk back to criticism
its only absolutely true when speaking to a real teacher, when talking to /beg/ you should take what they say with salt.

>>3043859
Talking back is not the same as taking something with a grain of salt / doubting the criticism.
The first you should do never, the second you should do always.

How do I befriend good artists to critique my work?

>>3043862
thats what i meant i suppose

>>3043863
Listen to their advice and show that you are serious about improving.
Be cool and nice to talk to.
Give them specific complements about their art.

>>3038844
>the one video that can save /ic/
I mean /ic/ is far not always doing what it preaches but of all places, criticism here is relatively well valued

>>3043863
be a cool guy or have a worthy vagina

>>3043863
By making the part about befriending them your primary motivation and the part about critiquing your work secondary.

>>3043855
>geez man, people aren't gonna read such a block of text with no guarantee that there's a point at the end.
True. It was late and I couldn't make concise sentences. However, it still refutes the other argument and has a point to it.

>>3044160
It was a bit rude of me to call you out like that, I just think good ideas can and should be delivered efficiently, tis all.

>>3044460
Nbd and I agree though

>>3043855
>AD or a commissioner putting up with your shit.
What's the difference, exactly? The things I mentioned had nothing at all to do with the subject, but technicals.

Say Van Gogh created the Starry Night as a bookcover. Does he have to listen to the complaints then? is he wrong to paint the way he does or is the client wrong? Why would the client hire an artist like Van Gogh when he wants rendering like Pyle?

It's more complicated than "always accept critique." not everything has to be perfect, you know? There is perfection in imperfection. It's what makes art... art. Doesn't matter if it's commercial or not.

>>3044944
A client wouldn't hire Gogh in the first place, moron.

People don't just hire artists without looking at a portfolio/art test to show they're worth the money.

You would actually know if you've gotten any job with art, anon.

>>3044944
Gogh wouldn't get hired for anything more realistic, but even if he did a book cover in his style and the writer said he'd prefer it in red rather than blue, then Gogh should oblige without taking it personally. It's not his book and it's not his opinion he's getting payed for.

>>3039096
hot