Regular reminder that learning properly and efficient is far

Thanks.
Brb activating my almonds and making a homemade coconut.

>>3034424
>learning properly and efficient
define this.

>>3034450
The opening post is self-explanatory.

>>3034450
Consistently analyze your work and what went well, what went wrong, what you need to be doing in order to improve.

I.e. If you make mediocre drawings for 10'000 hours you will just become excellent at mediocre drawings.
You need to regularly sit back and look at what you did, where you've improved and where you haven't and ask yourself 'why did it work, why did it not work?'. Say you're practising line weight and your picture looks shit, ask yourself why it does not look good and why it looks good with artists that are good at it. Compare. Reflect. Change what you're doing according to your analysis.
Push outside of your comfort zone.

This is one part of it. The other part is to also just have fun and DO what you can do. Just draw for fun. Having 1-2 active study days per week and drawing just for fun on the other ones is the way that keeps you both motivated and will lead to constant improvement. 1-2 times a week you look back at the drawings of the week and analyze and improve.

Don't forget to do creative excercises as well! Get people to give you draw prompts or use random generators online. Draw things you've never drawn before. This is a really important part, otherwise you will just end up with generic nothingness despite good technical skill.

>>3034424
Good job on offering vague suggestions instead of any actual advice.

While i do understand where you're coming from i believe this kind of advice is utterly useless to a beginner and those who have reached somewhat intermediate level already know this stuff.

>talent to learn efficiently
learning isn't a talent but a skill, you can actually learn to learn, everything comes with time and practice

and how about stopping worrying about having a perfect learning curve and actually focusing on drawing what's fun for you and learning that way? kinda obvious thing but so many people focus on "making it" instead of just doing something they actually like.

>>3034463
It's vague on purpose because clear suggestions will interrupt ideal individual solutions. People will just get into the cycle of doubt and arguments like you are diving into now.

Take this definition >>3034460
Being so precise about what contains the idea of efficient learning will interrupt the very idea of flexible thinking that is the most important aspect of the concept. It's about being aware of stagnation and trying to build solutions. Trough personal methods of finding the truth any solution that went trough your own filters will be extremely powerful. Even the best advice in the world is worth shit since it's just information and not a tool you refined and can actually use.

Any beginner who has spend weeks on /ic/ has read advice worth a lifetime and the biggest mistake is not trying out all kinds of different things to build the learning tools that work for you. If you never stagnate and always innovate you will always eventually reach ideal refined solutions.

>>3034460
>Say you're practising line weight and your picture looks shit, ask yourself why it does not look good and why it looks good with artists that are good at it
The answer to this is scenario is most likely that the other artists have more experience. So it still means that you need to put in more hours/mileage.

>>3034476
No, the answer is that you are doing something wrong and that they are doing something right. If you can figure out what they did right and successfully adopt it, you've solved the problem.

>>3034476
What can or what needs to be done must be put into words. Just putting in the hours without defining a clear problem and working out a clear attempt in problem solving is the definition of wasting time.

>>3034424
Itd be great if you guys would cite some sources on this subject.

>>3034479
>>3034481
>>3034484
ngmi

>>3034484
Source = your own mind.
It's an educational philosophy based on self discovery.

Get into the cycle of doubt and you will just continue to seek information which makes any kind of information worthless no matter how good the content is. Discover the solution yourself, that's the only way to kill "doubt" entirely.

>>3034484
source: codyboy

>>3034476
You can jump into the water and try to figure out your own way of swimming by trying over and over again, or you can watch experienced swimmers and try to understand what they're doing. Which one will get you there faster? Which one will lead to a more refined technique?

Of course you need mileage. But spending a bit of time trying to figure out what you should be doing BEFOREHAND leads to you not wasting time wiht irrelevant things for the particular thing you want to develop and lets you avoid developing bad habits.

>>3034479
This. There is always a reason why one thing looks good (or "works", rather) and another thing does not. And finding the answer lets you practise it specifically.

>>3034471
I agree that it's important to find a solution that works for each individual. The takeaway from my post was not meant to be 'do this exact practice schedule' but it was that real progress comes from analyzing and understanding. The exact manner of which and the exact amount of which varies depending on the individual - some take away more from master studies, others from analyzing their own work, for example.
>being aware of stagnation and trying to build solutions
I agree with this completely.

>>3034471
agreed, i made a stupid argument there, my bad

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It astonishes me how stupid some people on /ic/ are. I can't believe there are people who think you get good at art by just mindlessly grinding boxes without thinking about why you're doing it. Do you really think you're going to enjoy that? Can you think of anyone who enjoys drawing 250 boxes? And afterwards, you don't have anything to show for it. You've gotten better at drawing boxes, congrats. Now go draw shit that personally appeals to you, or you're not gonna make it.

>>3034541
I believe it's because the root problem appears to be so complex that those kind of people get overwhelmed and scared. When faced with problems people start to doubt themselves and their own methods and freeze up. To avoid freezing up they start to look at one single truth "the more time I invest the better I become".

This creates a comfort zone since you are free to stop thinking but eventually learning just becomes really frustrating since even though you slowly get better at art you never improve your learning skills and you never shake that toxic feeling of doubt away since you are running away from the core problem. It's also an opportunity wasted since not the art itself improves you as a person. It's all the learning skills, productive habits, refined thought patterns and the courage that facing problems will give you that will make you grow as a person.

>>3034541
Assignments like "draw 250 boxes" or "do gestures for 10 hours" are handed out because your average Joe is not going to be introspective and enough of a critical thinker to be able to ask himself the right questions and figure out a particular concept quickly. It's safer to just get him to put in hours hoping that somewhere along the road he subconciously picks up the knowledge required to master this concept.

>>3034424
>you will waste a lot of time
That's not too bad, considering most of my time is already spent on video games and shitposting.

>>3034481
so this whole thread is just to tell us: "don't doodle shit for 10 hours without knowing wtf you're even doing"? This is common sense.

>>3034563
It's fine if that's all you got from this thread. Everyone will interpret it differently. Just don't ask anyone else to confirm your thoughts.

>>3034575
That's not how communication is supposed to work.

>>3034580
You already started with a dead end question so communication is not possible.

>>3034557
>I believe it's because the root problem appears to be so complex that those kind of people get overwhelmed and scared. When faced with problems people start to doubt themselves and their own methods and freeze up
This. So much this. Problem is, I don't even grind boxes because I doubt even that.

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>>3034424
Lol this was unnecessary post, anybody with common sense would've known this anyway.
Of course you need balance and discipline in everything, including art. You can't just practice hard or just study and copy from other if you want to git gud. You have to do both, just like how you have to have a good diet and a disciplined workout. Also the point about thinking about why you're fucking up and trying to solve the problem is pretty obvious to anyone with common sense. Mindlessly practicing and ignoring that you're still shit is like running into a brick wall and repeatedly slamming into it like an autismo asking "why no work?"
Delete this post, faggot and get back to drawing.

>>3034691
Well yeah, obviously anyone with common sense would know OP was right, but as has been shown in this thread, there are many people that lack common sense.

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>>3034563
>>3034691
>OP is faggot confirmed

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>>3034693
this is why manchildren and anyone under 15 should be punished and not allowed to touch the internet until they get cure their retardation

>>3034590
wasn't the same anon you were responding to :-)

>>3034691
>>3034694
>>3034706
>>3034710
And here he is at least, the asian shitposter.

>>3034711
I like how you think that anon was asian. Could be lazy like the rest of us on /ic/

>>3034715
That guy is here for years now. He always has poor grammar and is incredibly butthurt for some reason so I call him the asian shitposter or the chinkposter.

>>3034719
Lol fair enough.

>>3034460
>>3034460
>Consistently analyze your work and what went well, what went wrong
what if you can't tell? i can see that *something* is off, but i can't pinpoint what.

OP: I have no talent so I resort to posting vague pretentious shitposts on /ic/ to feel better about myself. If you reply to me then you're a dumb dumb poopy head.

>>3034744
Check proportions and mirror your drawings first. Make sure that things line up and are consistent lengths.

If you still can't spot the mistake, put it aside for a few days. Examine other people's art to help develop your eye. Both beginners and experts.
Also google "common beginner mistakes in drawing" to see if any apply to you

>>3034744
get critique

Chiming in to say that this is very good advice and I've only realized this recently and only taken steps towards trying to correct it.

>>3034460 has it down very well, if you draw a wrong-looking arm 10,000 times, you'll just get good at drawing wrong arms and when you do try to correct it to draw a proper one it'd be even more difficult to make the switch.

I'm at the part that I still feel extremely depressed about drawing anything for fun and feel guilty if I'm not just doing studies 24/7, but I'm trying to slowly break back into doing maybe a giant loli once in a while to for recovery.

>>3034424
>excuses to not work hard


First you work hard, then you figure out where your weaknesses and inefficiencies are.

Then you can fine-tune your learning.

By working hard first, you learn how to work smart.

Good job not making it.