Erik olson perspective vs marshall vandruff?

>>3006125
>I understand the concept of vanishing points

No, you don't.

>>3006126
Just because you understand a concept, doesn't mean you will be able to execute it successfully, retard.

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>>3006125
It's possible that you're just going to work out different forms of perspective until you find the right one. There might be a hidden logic to your sense of organization, for example an object might seem to *want* to be in the wrong area, or the wrong size, or the wrong angle. Sometimes this looks really engaging and it can give your layouts a ripple effect. Don't get discouraged and you'll make headway by studying more from reference.

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https://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html
Most complete guide to perspective in existence.

I haven't looked into it but Vandruff's course might be okay. Olson is a meme that spends 90 hours on 2-point perspective because he doesn't know how to into 3-point (pic related)

>>3006125
did you eyeball all of that? or not use a ruler? it's wonky as fuck.

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>>3006126
I think that's pretty good for free hand.

>>3006125
Honestly OP I don't think Marshall has much to teach you, but you're probably going to be stuck relearning things from erik for a long time. I've said this before, I shall say it again, the best video lecture series on perspective is Gary Meyer's Gnomon course, much quicker than Olson's but also much more exact and complete than Marshall's.

Best of luck, I'm sure with a bit of practice you'll be a wonderful artist.

>>3006182
Why are you guys keep talking shit about my work? Obviously, if my shit was perfect, I wouldn't be asking for perspective resources would I?

Erik Olsen's course is very in-depth. He does multiple demonstrations and explains everything he does multiple times.

It's also highly technical. For example, there's a six lesson on drawing stairs in perspective. He goes through every rule in the book for creating accurate and detailed perspective drawings.

>>3006125
Your example's pretty good (though there's a few exceptions, like that fucking side table on the left).

Drawing things at a proper height can make a world of difference. Think about how tall the tables and other object will be, in relation to the other objects / openings in the room. If you were to draw a box around the character in the room, that box damn well better be to proper scale.

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>>3006669
cont.
But seriously, do be more consistent

>>3006674
doesnt have to be perfect, the biggest problem with this pic is the vertical lines

>>3006534
if you post work expect people to talk shit about it, just ignore the shit part and then take the advice. thats how this place works . no hug box here desu.

>>3006674
>Half your shit redlines don't even follow OP's lines. Look more closely you dumb fuck.

>>3006687
>No hug box
That doesn't justify witless shitting on other artists without a modicum of contribution because you're bored, frustrated, and unmotivated to produce anything of your own.
This board is a wasteland shithole fuckpit because of people's failure to understand that basic fucking concept.

>>3006698
well if you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen... there is no point in getting upset about it you know what 4chan is ,why come here if you dont expect it. you received information necessary to improve . just ignore the rest of it. its as simple as that.
>muh feels
>muh respect
that shit doesn't matter here. if you dont want the (you)s go somewhere else.

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>>3006723
Fuck you man. This is like my first time sketching perspective anyway. I mostly draw characters and shit.

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>>3006765
Hey guys, second attempt at perspective, is it any better?

>>3006765
i didnt say shit about your work faggot. i was just saying you know how this place is.
i thought your stuff looked ok it just needs more mesurement to the vp and keeping the verticals in the right place.
>>3006766
this one is a little more boring than the first but still a good attempt.
use a ruler it will help you out. create grid then do it.

>>3006766
This one feels better than the original, though this one feels amateur because of the lack of multiple varying vanishing points.

Also with erik olson he'll teach you about really concepts. It's the idea that you won't need to do a perfect grid every time becaus you already understand the complex perspective concepts.

To some curvilinear perspective seems very very hard. And it is, when setting up a grid. However, once you've done a few technical grids then you can begin not relying so heavily on a grid. Yet you have it just in case things get out of hand.

Right now, i think you just need a little more technical knowledge of perspective. Learn how to mirror lines and planes. Learn how to properly cast shadows. Learn how to set up units in 3d space so you can make accurate measurements(super useful). Learn how to transfer objects around a plane, and not just left or right, but upwards or downwards or diagonally. Learn how spiral staircases are drawn.

Everything that I've said I've done technically and slowly about three times, understanding each step completely. Now i can create fairly good looking enviros freehand (better with a pencil than digi).

>inb4 show your work
Trust me on this.

>>3006765
>http://www.mangahere.co/manga/kindred/c001/7.html
also to answer your backgrounds question , you do the line work and use screen-tone or digital texturing . a lot of manga backgrounds are photos converted into screentone and have line work added, in that particular example the brick wall is probably a tone that has been erased in some places. the top of the bridge looks like tone as well or a rock texture that has been monochromed. the lines on the ground and the plants are probably hand drawn the trees look like cut outs commonly used in manga (the solid black gives that away) the trees in 4 are probably drawn out + hatching. the buildings and stuff are all done using a ruler at some point. the sky in 3 is a monochromed photo or sky screentone.
manga is all about tricks to speed things up because the work usually has to come out fast. they have videos on the subject on youtube . if someone here will post the link there is a whole playlist about different things mangaka do . i dont have the link.

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>>3006766
If you want manga-like backgrounds, you really shouldn't skimp on drawing proper perspective lines and using mechanical tools. You should plan ahead with small thumbnails, which you can do freehand. Even when freehand drawing, you will still benefit from using perspective lines.

I can't tell if you're drawing one point perspective, or a mild 2/3 point perspective. If it's a mild 2/3 point interior shot, you can cheat by drawing in simple one point perspective and using skew/deformation on it.

If you already know the basics, then a good book on storyboarding will probably help you more than another book on perspective, since that information remains the same. For what you want to do, there's not much that isn't covered in Norling's Perspective Made Easy.

>>3006154
what the fuck

>>3006125
Don't worry about the shit criticism in this thread anon, /ic/ is what it is.

To address your question -
>Norling's perspective made easy
is very simple and doesn't go too in depth, but the basic concept is there.
From there I very much recommend
>Vandruff's perspective series,
it helped me tremendously and made me want to understand the real perspective rather than meme simplifications from art books.
Then pick
>Scott's How to draw
and do the exercises, they are fucking great.
Along that, learn to think in boxes and planes by studying
>Kim Jung Gi's or Peter Han's approach
and liberate yourself from vanishing points.

By now you should have a decent enough sense of space to freehand most of your work and fall back on the horizon line for corrections and more technical stuff.
I don't recommend Eric Olson, he makes the whole thing into a fucking science instead of explaining the simple concepts.

>>3006125

>Marshall Vandruff can actually draw and paint
>Erik Olson can't, wastes your time and doesn't even get into three-point perspective

I think the choice is clear. Always go for the better artist and don't waste your time. It's better if you watched those 7h and drew on its basis for the next 83h than watch 90h of some noone rambling.

>>3006154

There has to be a logical explanation for this shit.

Please tell me there is.

>>3006154
>>3006630
>>3006926
>>3006944

First of all guys, thanks for the in depth advice. But at the same time, go fuck yourselves. I'm more confused than I ever was with all this contradictory fucking advice. Though I would say that most users on here would agree that erik olson is a waste of fucking time.

I think I'll go with marshall vandruff for now. If i'm still having trouble with perspective I'll look into scott roberston because I honestly don't see the point of learning those xyz section drawings unless i'm interested in becoming an industrial designer.

In fact, I'm not interested in any art career as i'm just a hobbyist. Sometimes I ask myself why I take this shit so seriously if I never plan on making a dime from it? But I guess that's for another time.

>>3006963
>Sometimes I ask myself why I take this shit so seriously
I'm purely a hobbyist as well. I think it's just more fun to do art when I'm better at it. I got to a level that I can feel proud of my drawings.

>>3006198
Can you access Meyer's tutorial with a free trial or do you need a full licence? I'm going to do some saving this month so I can afford a month's subscription to check some of the tutorials I've been wanting to look at on Gnomon.

>>3006963
> If i'm still having trouble with perspective I'll look into scott roberston because I honestly don't see the point of learning those xyz section drawings unless i'm interested in becoming an industrial designer.

Don't be a pussy, learn it.

why is it threads on linear perspective usually have long debates here

>>3006776
Show your work

>>3006979
because perspective doesn't have a loomis

>>3006972
I'm not a pussy. I don't have the time to learn everything in the world. I need to focus what little time I have on learning the stuff I nee.

>>3006125

You might have a theoretical understanding but your practical understanding still sucks. All of your lines go slightly off direction. Looks like Vangogh's night cafe

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>>3006125
p00se2 on twitch is the way for perspective

>>3006971
I don't know, but it is on CGpeers and they have registrations open the 1st an 15th of every month, just sign up and you're in, and it's been Freeleech for a long time now.

>>3007089
kill yourself

>>3006963
Dude you never don't have problems with perspective, you just keep improving until you die and the more effort you invest, the more joy you'll get in return. It's the same with any other skill in this world.

>>3007100
No u

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>>3006963

Ok, I am >>3006944 , I'll make this clear to you:

Adhering to very rigorous perspective mostly doesn't fucking matter.

http://www.lizsteel.com/sketching-street-scenes-without-persepctive/

Relationships between objects matter, attractive shapes matter, keeping things in proportion matter.

Very rarely people stick to the heavy VP approach to perspective. Grab Steve Huston book, he explains how he eyeballs it all with the use of his pencil. Or see krenz tutorials how he takes box approach.

You don't have to even do that nowadays, if you are working digitally you can overlay grid easily or import still from 3D mockup scene that can be really done in minutes and you will also have lighting for reference.

You think Scott Robertson dude uses heavy construction that he teaches you? NOPE, look here what "hack" stuff he does to streamline the creative design process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diMDoFkN73s

If you still don't believe me go to the site of that Erik Edwin Olson dude and see where being fixated on perspective alone will get you.

Those concepts aren't fucking difficult. Have in mind what perspective is and be aware of it while painting - but there's so much more to creating the depth, your pieces will suffer a lot more from bad values and edges than not aligning perfectly to VP that is waaay beyond the canvas.

Where can I get Erik Olson's video tutorials? I don't mind paying 35/mo. But, can I keep watching the videos forever? Can I just pay 35 to have access to the lesson whenever I need it? ty

>>3007131
like, this looks like shit for some reason, but the perspective is sound, right? what is it about this? maybe if he rendered the trees and skies better it wouldn't look so terrible. the distance between the large buidlding and the hospital looks suspect too. and the way that little dinky house isn't facing the road right there just looks wrong. not to say this exact map couldn't exist in reality it just looks wonky. look at any of james gurneys( who I think might be some kind of genius) plein air paintings or sketches of real places and they look a million times more realistic.

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>>3007278
forgot pic

>>3007278
perspective is off.

>>3007281
Stairs and base of building are not parallel to the sidewalk when they probably should be. Building also looks like it is leaning back.

>>3007071

Learning it saves you time in the long run.

>>3006198
>I've said this before, I shall say it again, the best video lecture series on perspective is Gary Meyer's Gnomon course

>Look it up
>Watch preview video
>Cum in pants

I guess I'll be doing a load of laundry while it's downloading from CGpeers. Thanks anon.

>>3006674
Dude, so many of those lines aren't following op's lines, wth?

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>>3006198
>>3008181
>oh cool he actually has some 3 point perspective stuff
>see pic related in preview video

As a vehement handprint perspective shill and perspective god, I can confirm that this is the good shit.
It's probably way easier to digest than handprint being a video series and all.
I'll look into it later properly to see if I should start shilling this instead of handprint.

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>>3006154
>Most complete guide to perspective in existence.
>it skims curvilinear perspectives
every time

>>3008195

This stuff is like porn to me.

>>3008289
It triggers me too senpai. Should have said linear perspective.

Ctrlpaint's series is good enough. So is Marshall's. I'm impatiently waiting for Marshall to do his perspective series with Proko.

>>3007131
Quality red pill.
Let it be heard loud and clear.

>>3009773
>Marshall to do his perspective series with Proko
Oh my..

>>3009773
Wheeeeeeen?

>>3009883
No official date. He's been talking about it for a year, maybe longer.

>>3006132
then you don't understand the concept. LOL

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>>3006125
The part I circled feels slanted. Like it's falling apart.

>>3006125
I found the ctrl paint vids to be great and really helpful, everything I looked at wasn't making sense it was clear and concise when I finally watch his vids though.

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I finished Olson's course about 9 months ago (as well as Scott Robertson's book), and although I am way more confident than before (I keep most of principles in my head all the time) I'm still unsure how it's applicable when there's so many 3d tools around, with focal length, curves and stuff, does a practical 2d approach even exist nowadays? I've spent sooo much time with perspective, but now its either "draw what feels right" or "use 3d for overly tech stuff".
Seriously perspective is the most controversial topic for me, it helped a lot mentally but applying it the way it's taught nowadays seems obsolete