Japan number 1

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>>2936716

>>2936716
>died taking a nap
>overwork
wha?

>>2936741
Yes.

well if he have worked harder, he would not have died of guilt induced heart attack

>>2936716
I guess it's karma, based on the horrors he unleashed upon the world.

Rest in peace.
At least he went down doing what he loved,I guess...

That story might be a lesson for all the weebs who see Japan as a dreamland (it's not like your anime, man).

He was killed by the cancer that he himself helped to create.

>>2936716
>they have a special word for this kind of thing which implies its common
jesus

I think it's more screwed up that it took this long for them to announce their death.

The dude died in their office. Was it like "no one tell anyone... keep working"

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i thought this just happens in manga

Meanwhile in the west, according to Anthony Jones professionals usually work 4hrs a day unless they are trying to buy a house or something.

>>2937118
Japan isn't even that productive. They work hard instead of smart but their culture doesn't get the difference.

>>2936850
>he never played karoshi suicide salaryman

>>2937118
That probably only applies to people working in studios and bigger companies. A lot of freelancers and people working on their own projects still work all day. Also, how does Anthony Jones still have any credibility?

>>2937126
yeah ok

>>2937184
>Also, how does Anthony Jones still have any credibility?
What did he do?

>>2937126

In the west, a lot of positions are segregated. Whereas, in the east, they take multiple roles at once to meet a tight deadline.

They do take shortcuts like posebooks and photos though.

>>2937189
Ran a kickstarter for an art book with no intention of fulfilling it. The worst part is that you can buy the book on amazon now even though the people who funded it didn't even get it.

>>2937203
Around blacks never relax!

>>2937225

he's part ayysian tho

>>2937234
>be part asian
>can only draw rendered torsos and monster faces
I guess the ability to draw the other parts where left in the portion of godly asian DNA he didn't get.

>>2937186
You know most ppl in japan don't have central air conditioning?

What makes you think japs won't work themselves inefficiently to death? That's what they're best at, inefficiency and dying from karoushi,

INSIDE JOB

#NotWithoutMyKazu

>>2937267
they still make more comic books than the west

>>2937267

They're all obviously going for the One Punch Man workout.

>>2937139
I'm stuck on level 16, what to do?

>>2937379
nvm, I figured it out.

>>2937186
>yeah ok

He's right though.

Why would you want to work in a country where you'll always be viewed as a filthy gaijin? From what I've heard I don't think its possible for outsiders to fully assimilate.

>>2937565
>still falling for the xenophobia meme
It's like you don't understand artists at all, anon.

>>2937622
I mean I'm just trying to think about it objectively, why would japanese studios employ foreigners who probably don't speak the language well when they have loads of competent artists who have been drawing since they were old enough to hold a pencil?

Good luck with your dreams of becoming an animu artist in Japan though anon

>>2937684
It's not really possible to think about it objectively because there's so many factors. Maybe the foreigners are really good and have potential for more. Maybe they just want some difference in their studio. There's so many factors in fact, I think it's foreigners who are xenophobic of Japan. How many people do you think even try to get in? Most people give up without even trying. Who knows what the success rate is?

>>2937696
>maybe the foreigners are really good
I'm speaking generally, but westerners don't have strong work ethic when compared to Japanese.
>maybe they just want some difference in their studio.
No, they don't care about diversity amongst employees, they don't even talk to each other. Read this article (I know, Buzzfeed, but its relevant) https://www.buzzfeed.com/danmeth/this-american-is-one-of-the-only-non-japanese-working-in-ani?utm_term=.aqD4KMdZQ#.rdaNGl9be

>"I would apply to a bunch of anime studios, and get rejected. Then, for the rest of the year I would redo my portfolio entirely, learn more Japanese, and try to make any connections I could with people working in the studios. Summertime would roll around again, and I'd repeat the process. It took four years, but finally the studio Nakamura-Productions told me that my portfolio was good enough, and if my visa was valid, and I was mentally prepared for the never-ending work-hell I was about to enter, that they'd let me work there. I told them yes."

Judging by the sound of the article it seems like there are only a handful of non-japanese artists working in anime studios. It's a pipedream for many, unachievable for most.

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>>2937702
>It's a pipedream for many, unachievable for most.

Well, yeah, but that's because most artists who have the specific wish of working in Japan are weebs without the actual qualifications. It's akin to dreaming of working for Blizzard because you like their video games.

There are a whole bunch of french Gobelins graduates working in Japan as animators and background artists for example. But I doubt many of them were actively gunning for a job in Japan and it happened mostly by accident through a string of work experience and connections.

>>2936716
>decided to take a nap and passed away in hsi sleep
so it's not the work that killed him, but rest

>>2937696
>I'm speaking generally, but westerners don't have strong work ethic when compared to Japanese.
Isn't it more that the Japanese have expectations of a strong work ethic, so giving the impression of working hard is 'fine'? Like excessive overtime but low productivity rates for the average white collar worker. I feel like this doesn't apply to the creative fields, though, because the horror stories of people passing out or dying early from overworking at animation or game studios is unfortunately common.

>>2937716
Yeah, French Gobelins alumni are the only prominent westerners I can think of currently working in anime (with the exception of BahiJD, and western rookies purposely sought out by Watanabe for 'Space Dandy').

I remember there was a Japanese-French Gobelins grad who had worked on a prominent French animation before landing gigs with Miyazaki and (possibly) Satoshi Kon. The interviews with her were very telling about westerner animators' attitudes breaking into anime. She argued that poor animation in anime was a result of animators not investing enough emotional interest in their work, but seeing that she had the pick of litter regarding anime work, it seems unfair to blame some inbetweener working 60 hours on some flop live novel adaption for an anime being shit.

The few Westerners who break into anime most likely have more mobility regarding what jobs they want, since studios probably only take extremely skilled artists. Japanese animators generally seem to have to work their way up the ladder and hope they land a sweet gig.

>>2937724
>I feel like this doesn't apply to the creative fields, though, because the horror stories of people passing out or dying early from overworking at animation or game studios is unfortunately common.
I have to admit, it bothers me that people seem to think it's common when it's really not. People hear about it and it's shocking so it must be common! Like come, it's not like bombings in the middle east where people die every single day. It's like once in a while.

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>>2936716

rip

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When I see stuff like this I don't know if our idolization of Japanese culture is appropriate

Fucking idiots. It seriously upsets me.

>>2936850
It happens often.

>>2937730
I wouldn't be surprised if you were right (animators and mangaka do generally seem to die so often because a bunch of them are people in their 60s on low salaries but high workloads and stress), but I'd still say the creative fields in Japan have harsh as hell work conditions that inevitably take a toll on animators. Veteran Japanese animators and westerners who've been in anime industry pretty much confirm it.

>>2937730
When your langage has a specific word to describe dying from overworking yourself, then it has to be at least somewhat common to some degree, otherwise that word would have never come to exist because there was no use for it.

>hurr durr but more people die in the middle east"
No shit, you idiot.

>not selling your paintings in the hundreds of art galleries in ginza

Oh yeah, I forgot you can't sell wacom scribbles in actual galleries

>>2937118
That's not true and you know it.

>>2937767

Japan animation industry is extreme example, but really symptomatic of what is wrong with lots of commercial art, even in the west (videogame and film production pipelines).

Really, IMHO the only way to have any decent living is to become individual brand that people will seek out, by being fine artist or a freelancer/ultimately independent studio.

Shigeri Mizuki, creator of Gegege No Kitaro, lived to like 90 while Tezuka and some other masters died in their 60s. Mizuki was adamant about sleeping a full 8 hours a day, while everyone else he knew died off due to overworking.

So Manga seems to have a little more flexibility.

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>>2937777
Yeah, it's equally bad being a codemonkey over here, horrible schedules, shit pay and you're totally replaceable.

Fine art is a much healthier option, I mentioned Ginza because I went to Tokyo last year and went around a whole load of galleries and it's a viable market for gaijin, lots of westerners exhibit there. It's mostly representational in the commercial galleries as well, not just abstract or whatever, and all different kinds of prices ranging from 10.000 yen up to a million.

As a painter myself I think it's a legitimate venue when I get good enough. You wouldn't have the whole cringe factor of being a wannabe mangka either.

>>2937813
I'm looking to get into entertainment and do visdev stuff, but I'm definitely intending to do fine arts, representative paintings on the side. I find it a little weird that people only seem to stick to either commercial art or fine arts, and that not a lot of artists manage to do both.

I hope it's just from a lack of interest and not lack of time.

>>2937742
Is this picture the new "anime was a mistake" -misquote meme?

>>2937825
/ic/ is mostly focused on quite a small section of the art market, much like there was in the old conceptart.org days. But fine art isn't just conceptual mumbo jumbo or abstract daubs, if you're selling to normal people who want a painting or their wall then something that's representational (not necessarily realist, but a re-presentation of something) is the best choice.

We tend to fall for the false dichotomy of either concept artist or jackson pollock imitator.

Personally, I can't tolerate being in front of a screen for that long, I spend enough time in front of a computer as it is.

>>2937717
Kek'd. This post is too Japanese for this thread.

>>2937742
Source on the image?

>>2937203
thought we were talking about alex jones lmao

>>2937717
Goddamnitt anon, almost made me spit out my coffee.

>>2937742
what amount of work are they doing that's causing them to die? like are they missing multiple nights of sleep?

Animation is already slave work in eastern countrys

>>2938385
Basically, yeah.
People getting an average of 2 - 4 hours of sleep for over a year straight. They even explained how some animators over there would brag about how little sleep they'd get.

Kind of funny, most of the best art out there is from the West or French land, but Japan has yet to put out anything really good. Everything there has been completely mediocre, and yet you have people dying there all the time from this kind of work.

They refuse to change to common sense cause of "traditional" reasons.

>>2936716
lol who cares about a naruto animator, call me when a BOruto animator dies, only boruto is relevant now, he looks the same, and has the same personality, but it's the next generation. get relevant.

>>2938671
>>2938385
Sadly this shit exists even in the west. I have a friend who finally got hired to work on a show and he takes pride in the fact that he only sleeps, sometimes less than, 4 hours a night.

He's not japanese or anything, his teachers just told him he basically has to kill himself if he wants to get hired. And that's what he's doing. I'm trying to get him to chill a bit.

>>2938687
Speaking of, there's people who are even japanese that are amazing artists but aren't vets in the industry. So, because of this, even though they are better than anyone within their field, they're usually put into a situation like you mentioned where "you have to die for your job" type of attitude.

Except in this case, it's either you die or you don't get promoted.

>>2938687
most people in brain based jobs sleep few hours, lack of sleep helps with creative solutions, everyone knows that. read a paper once in a while lol.

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>>2938701
>lack of sleep helps with creative solutions
FUCK WHICH SHITTY, UNSOURCED DOT COM SITE DO I BELIEVE?!?!?

>>2938707
>google scholar
tml

>>2938720
>Although much is known about the impact of sleep loss on many aspects of psychological performance, the effects on divergent ("creative") thinking has received little attention. Twelve subjects went 32 h without sleep, and 12 others acted as normally sleeping controls. All subjects were assessed
on the figural and verbal versions of the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking. As compared with the control condition, sleep loss impaired performance on all test scales (e.g., "flexibility," the ability to change strategy, and "originality, " generation of unusual ideas) for both versions, even on an initial
5-min test component. In an attempt at further understanding of whether these findings might be explained solely by a loss of motivation, two additional short and stimulating tests were also used-a word fluency task incorporating high incentive to do well and a challenging nonverbal planning test. Performance at these tasks was still significantly impaired by sleep loss. Increased perseveration was clearly apparent. Apparently, 1 night of sleep loss can affect divergent thinking. This contrasts with the outcome for convergent thinking tasks, which are more resilient to short-term sleep loss.

Well, that solves that.

>>2938736
divergent thinking and creativity aren't the same thing duh,

creativity = create things
divergent thinking = think of as many uses for a brick as you can.

is bulshit

do people that idolize japan as some type of perfect anime dreamland actually exist?

I see it memed about all the time, but I've never actually seen someone who is stupid enough to believe that japan is some paragon of perfection.
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Japan's work culture is ruthlessly horrible.

>>2938769
They exist but not on this website

>>2938769
Japan IS the anime dream land, unless you want to go to Korea and work at their studios.

>>2938685
wow such edge ;)

exactly how do you acutally die due to overwork? i can understand if it's physical stress from working in a factory for 16 hrs a day or some shit, but if it's from sleep deprivation as a manga god or whatever, won't you just eventually reach a point where it's impossible to stay awake and you fall asleep? like how you can't stop breathing long enough to suffocate

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I f japan is meme
How about study art at cyka blyat federation ? I'm just curious about it

>>2936716
>died from overwork
>in his sleep
You mean to say, if I don't die before going to bed, there is still the change of doing it while sleeping?

>>2938762
>think of as many uses for a brick as you can.
>not creativity
anon ...

>>2938707
I mean, if you want a true answer with creative solutions, just smoke weed.

>>2939241
go to czech republic or poland
you can live a pretty cheap life there and work in AAA game studios if you have the skill
or you can do contract artwork and live a nice comfy artist life there (which i intend to do)

>>2939241

I would sell my soul to attend the Repin academy in St. Petersburg. Look up "the art of gold" on youtube.

>>2936716
>taking naps to rest
his heart failed cause he new he would never make it.

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>>2936741

>>2938671
>Kind of funny, most of the best art out there is from the West or French land, but Japan has yet to put out anything really good.
quality bait you got there friend.

>>2937139
Fucking sweet game, under-appreciated.ab

>>2937717
It' all makes sense now...

>GOODA-MORRING SRAVES!
>HEADU-OFFICE HAS NOW BANNED SREEP AT WORK
>SREEP IN YOUR OWN TIME PREASE
>SREEP IS A SHAMEFRU DISPRAY

... And so Japan's animation industry's output increased 200%.

>>2936772
>At least he went down doing what he loved
Sleeping?

>>2939458
the best part is how he doesn't include france in the west, lol

>>2937696
>Who knows what the success rate is?

We could probably ask all of the half Koren half Japanese who were born in Japan but can't get citizenship.

>>2939240
>won't you just eventually reach a point where it's impossible to stay awake and you fall asleep?

Well yes.

Except you fall asleep forever.

>>2939240

Sleep deprivation fucking your health isn't really a case of "I stayed up for 80 hours and then died". It's more "I got 2-3 hours of sleep a night for two months and fucked my cardiovascular health."

>>2940251
>tfw have no idea how fucked up your cardiovascular health is

>>2936716
Japanimation isn't worth. It is if you're just trying to get a closer look to how they do it then fuck off afterwards.

It's better to do your own etsy/patreon shits than literally die from deadlines (no pun intent).

production companies are abusive as fuck and see the animators as mere tools they can replace any time.

fuck doesn't trickle down properly either. you don't expect being paid royalties there unless you don't rely on the 'industry' and do your own circle thang.

>>2940251
I've seen in some of these videos [link] ; https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x40ksp0_urasawa-naoki-no-manben-manga-documentary-s2e3-2016-igarashi-daisuke-english-720_creation

mangakas literally living in their studio and taking mini cat naps in between working. my guess is this is just a common thing they do and take pride in it even. kind of spooky.

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>>2940424
>meanwhile this semen demon's studio works 8 hours a day like actual civilized people and take regular vacations too

working in one of the top 10 largest game studios in asia, ama

>>2940487
Is it easy to switch between them

>>2940489
probably. there's a mix of different nationalities among all the seniors. especially among concept artists (I am not one of them).