Furry art and industry prices

>>2924319
Furries aside I just can't buy into the "never do spec work" or "never sell yourself short, demand 200$ for a pinup" reasoning, especially when it's aimed at artists who are struggling to get any work in the first place. Oh yeah sure I'll just hike my prices up tenfold, that'll help.

It's always some industry veteran who struck gold a few decades ago who says this, maybe they're out of touch?

>>2924363

You're a fucking fag if you agree to spec work. The one exception would be a labour of love project, but other than that forget it. Good clients want to pay you.

>>2924374
This.

>>2924319
Furries may be spoiled rich by their autismbux but they're not THAT insane.

There's a reason the prices are that low, not everyone is that brain surgeon who constantly requests macro art.

>>2924363

Believe it or not, people who can afford those high prices often see greater value in services priced higher. It's stupid, but the feeling of paying more gives them more confidence and makes them feel like a big shot for hiring someone expensive. Like wearing a $5000 suit just to be that guy in the $5000 suit.

On the other hand, plenty of people will say fuck your price and hire one of the many competent cheaper options. But at the same time, going lower will turn off the crazy rich few who want to pay more for the best of the best and believe your low rate a sign of McDonalds quality

Basically, choose your hunt. Crabbing for steady hauls of small meat or whale fishing for the chance of a record breaking catch someday

Helps to actually know your value first. If you can honestly say that you'd pay your rate for the caliber of what you do, the client will have an easier time beliving it too

why are people on /ic/ so obsessed with making money

It's the demand for your art that sets the price of it. NO-THING ELSE.

>>2924427
I'm pretty sure the majority of ic is NEET and doesnt want a 9 to 5

>>2924427

>im 12 and what are bills

>>2924427
Because they're artists.

They came into the market thinking drawing is a stable source of money and then reality gave them a firm pat on the ack and showed them the world.

Its the fact that they've worked YEARS to avoid actually having to take responsibility and actually do some work that requires thought and they'll be damned if they'll have them wasted away to work at mcdonalds(because they didn't actually get some uselfull workskills.)

Most people aren't publishing businesses and, you'd be naiive to expect the same payment from everyone.

Context is key, if you want to make lots of money you should pitch higher up.

>>2924462
nice projection but really just making 20 bucks from some tattoo design somebody wanted me to do is nice side money

>>2924319
Most furry artists charge like 50$-150$
There are some furry celebrities tho, who can charge more, and there are those who don't even do comissions anymore.

>>2924374
stupid fucking faggot. People like you are the reason clients think it's ok to underhand.

"People like anon will do it for free".

Stupid fucking idiot.

>>2924319
Furries look for people that are recognizable in community. Those artists whom have big name can make a lot of cash. There are people whom draw better shit than most of famous furry artists and also cheaper but furfags care about who drew it and not how it was drawn.

>>2924427
they're not real artists
they just want EZ money
most of them don't draw but already dreams about money and create stupid threads like this one
no one of them gonna make it

>>2924427
think of all the cool stuff you can buy with money anon! cars, women, alcohol. buy it with your money. you don't want your oneitis from highschool seeing your social media account filled with old used stuff right? show her how successful and happy you are in your new apartment filled with new stuff! the trendiest furniture and a tasteful bottle of Dom Perignon still sitting on the living room table left over from the awesome party last night. that you bought with your money.

>>2924381
I read he was a plastic surgeon from Worst Korea who is poor because he spends literally all his expendable income on commissioning gay Star Fox macro porn.

>>2924515

Are you sure you quoted the right post

>>2924531
I just want to buy food and art materials...

>>2924729
if you want to never be hungry, exclusively buy food with a credit card, then pay it off with comissions.

>>2924319
why do artists always try to jew people out of money when they don't even buy art themselves.

>>2924751

Nothing wrong with making money from a skill

>>2924751
Art takes more time to develop than almost any other profession.

>>2924751
Why do [spoiler]janitors[/spoiler] always try to Jew people out of money when they don't even [spoiler]hire janitors[/spoiler] themselves.

>>2924781
Oh look. Spoilers don't work on /ic/. Well I look like a fool.

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>tfw drawing OCs for 40 bucks a piece
You just provide a service. Quit acting like your drawing has value when your client basically has no intention in making a profit.

>>2924515
I dunno if you were replying to my post >>2924363
but no I don't advocate for spec work. I don't even do commissions anymore. I'm just saying that people peddling their drawings for 10$ or doing spec work happens for a reason, which is that artists are desperate for attention and the money door is completely locked.

>>2924517
you sound like a south east asian chink,
go back to your deviantart and continue drawing the fanart of the work of your superior asian overlords who should have conquered and civilized your pinoy subhuman ass

>>2924782
putting spoiler tags in your posts is pretty obnoxious anyway, so no change there.

>>2924319
laughing at these arbitrary pixel sizes, who wrote this fucking trash.

>>2924319
>industry standard
The second an artist brings up that bullshit is the moment I walk away and put them on my blacklist. I will NEVER hire them and I will wash my hands of them forever. There is no such thing as an "industry standard" and if you're going to be a disingenuous little prick then fuck you.

The fact is the "standard" is whatever people are willing to pay for your level of talent, reputation and ability to give people what they want. Someone can be talented and yet really bad at giving clients what they want. Someone can be talented and yet have a shit reputation for taking forever to deliver completed work. Someone can have less talent but be amazing at giving people stuff fast and understanding what the client wants so even though it's not perfect they are still way happier.

If you want more money you need to get off your lazy ass, produce things quickly and create happy customers who will preach your name like the gospel. I've seen plenty of artists disappear into obscurity because they either charge way too high or work way too slow or do a piss poor job in listening to what clients want or a combination of all three.

>>2927543
are you making money with your art..?

>>2924319
Yeah, this is stupid.
You can't hold people who comission you for a magazine, video game art etc. to the same standard as some dude on furaffinity who comission you to draw his beaver avatar for personal use.

>>2924319
>the only way you can make a secured, decent living as an Artist is either drawing furry porn or furry artwork

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If you're wondering why "Industry Standards" are the price that they are for the same level of work as personal commissions, it's simply because of this:

The big money in illustration comes from the licensing of the work more so than the work itself. When you're hired for an illustration for a commercial project, you need to be accounting for the standards fees (time spent, materials, skill level, etc.), and then on top of that, you add a fee based on the usage of the work. The higher the usage, the higher the fee. For example, OP's example is for book illustration. The higher the estimated print run is to be, the more value you're adding to the project and the more money you should get. It's why the New Yorker pays $5000+ for a cover while an alternative weekly pays about $300-500.

Usage fees go out the window when pricing for personal commissions, which is why they're often so low. I strongly advise against personal commissions becoming your main source of income, especially (in this thread) for furry artists. You are so much better off developing a portfolio and trying to land commercial gigs in illustration than being a furry artists. It'll be harder to build up, but you could develop a style that propels a lifelong career. Furry art (and anime art) cannot be used to cross over into any reliable commercial illustration industry. It's a dead end road.

>>2927577
Even if we go with your explanation the numbers represented are still arbitrary bullshit numbers pulled out of someone's ass to justify overcharging people. Even within a for profit industry it's not factoring in all the other stuff that determines pricing.

>>2927558
I don't do commissions. I got started late in life and so I am focusing on doing what I want and only what I want. If people like what I do and want to throw me money on Patreon they are free to do so, otherwise I am not going to do any requests, commissions, projects, etc etc.

>>2927606
>Even if we go with your explanation the numbers represented are still arbitrary bullshit numbers pulled out of someone's ass to justify overcharging people. Even within a for profit industry it's not factoring in all the other stuff that determines pricing.

The New Yorker fee is reported from several artists online. The payout has been rumored to have gone down in recent years, but it is still $3000+. The art director for the New Yorker confirmed in an interview that there is a flat fee for all artists, regardless of who they are.

The alternative weekly covers fees are from myself and others, as I do these fairly often. These are standard fees for medium-sized alt weeklies with a circulation around 40k - 80k. The larger ones pay more.

None of these are pulled out of peoples ass, and it's not over-charging people at all. It almost sounds like you don't want to make a lot of money if you have an opportunity to do so. Do you really not think you deserve a reasonable cut of a profitable product or service if you contributed a major asset to it?

>>2927577
editorial illustration is dead, blogs pay peanuts if they want art for a long post, or get it for free. While institutions might still follow "standards" from 40 years ago many don't. The bar is lower, the talent pool is saturated, the material cost is 0, expected turnaround faster, the rates are the same if not worse. WFH excludes publishing rights.

>>2924363
That's because it's your shitty attitude that's keeping the industry so fucked. Why would someone pay full price if they can get some student/autist such as yourself to do it for a quarter of the price, despite the lower quality. If everyone jacks up their prices to a reasonable amount, there'd be no need for this fuckery.

>>2927655

Well unless artists want to unionize, whining isn't going to magically get such a large and disparate group to agree to price fix.

>>2927691
I feel like realistically it'll just play into the hands of artists with really cheap cost of living - not liveable if you're working in the nordic countries, but certainly if you're in eastern europe or even south america. Race to the bottom.

>>2927710
Wouldn't it be worthwhile as an artist to move to a country with cheaper cost of living once you're good at drawing?

A $30 commission you do in the states won't last long with rent and bills but if you live in an area where the average salary is just $400 a year then getting a commission a month should be enough to keep you fed and housed.

If you get a commission every other day then you'd be able to live like a king there.

>>2924319
>furry art is totally up to part with industry standards right?

Furry art is more forgiving, you can get a lot of work for low-to-mediocre skill levels and lot of work and money for high skill. In contrast Industry is extremely competitive, nepotistic; so you better be a fucking amazing artist or know somebody, sometimes you need both.

Also, furry artists can lack etiquette and treat their clients like shit and still get paid, unlike industry where you would get fired immediately.

>>2927722
Lots of retirees from the nordics actually move to Thailand just for the low cost of living and warm weather - a 1 room apartment there is a small and nice beachside house in Thailand.

Unfortunately you'll always have family ties and friends to keep you - but yes, it does make economic sense if you enjoy that country. Artists are now one of the very select few professions that make basically the same amount of money wherever they live, as long as the have an internet connection.

>>2927577
>Furry art (and anime art) cannot be used to cross over into any reliable commercial illustration industry. It's a dead end road.

What if you get hired by Disney though? Someone's gotta replace their retiring animators.

>>2924363
>I just can't buy into the "never do spec work" or "never sell yourself short, demand 200$ for a pinup" reasoning


Consider that there's always globalism. People and companies can always hire cheaper work from artist from third world nations.

There's no way an artist from first world country or living in an expensive city can compete with their prices.

>>2924434
>It's the demand for your art that sets the price of it. NO-THING ELSE.


This

>>2927543
>The fact is the "standard" is whatever people are willing to pay for your level of talent, reputation and ability to give people what they want. Someone can be talented and yet really bad at giving clients what they want. Someone can be talented and yet have a shit reputation for taking forever to deliver completed work. Someone can have less talent but be amazing at giving people stuff fast and understanding what the client wants so even though it's not perfect they are still way happier.
>If you want more money you need to get off your lazy ass, produce things quickly and create happy customers who will preach your name like the gospel. I've seen plenty of artists disappear into obscurity because they either charge way too high or work way too slow or do a piss poor job in listening to what clients want or a combination of all three.

More artists should start commissioning other artists just to see what its like being on the clinets shoes. It will make you a better bussinessman

>>2924434
>>2927744
This only applies to the world of fine art.

This thread is about comparing the multiple factors that distinguish the pay between commercial art to personal art.

>>2927737
You got me there. I was trying to think of a good rebuttal, but you've got a point. Movies like Zootopia and any Disney movie with animal characters are right up furry artists alleys.

However, I'd argue Disney looks for a more specific skill set than what I assume the average furry artists has. Disney may hire character concept artists, modelers and animators - all things I'm not sure furry artists are trained to do. I'd also argue that the amount of porn furry artists do disqualifies them from the job. Disney is not going to hire you with a porn portfolio.

>>2927577
>tfw anime art will never die

>>2927747
>More artists should start commissioning other artists just to see what its like being on the clinets shoes. It will make you a better bussinessman
I agree 100%, I started off being a client but got so tired of the bullshit that I started learning to draw just to avoid it all. There are so many poor businessmen in the artist community. Nothing is more irritating than when you commission someone, give them $300 upfront and then they drag ass to the point where it takes months just to get a sketch. Meanwhile they are finishing all kinds of pieces both personal and commissioned, including those they accepted AFTER yours. A year later you still have no commission and they finally admit they don't really want to draw what you want and that they only took it because they needed the money bad at the time and give you a refund. The refund of course taking several more months to receive.

Then when you share all this they throw a huge shit fit like YOU are the unreasonable one for not understanding their artistic preferences and process. Typically followed by nuking their own gallery or disappearing themselves only to show up again with a slightly altered style where the whole fucking process is repeated with some other poor saps.

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>>2927655
>That's because it's your shitty attitude that's keeping the industry so fucked. Why would someone pay full price if they can get some student/autist such as yourself to do it for a quarter of the price, despite the lower quality. If everyone jacks up their prices to a reasonable amount, there'd be no need for this fuckery.

I dare you say this in the Drawthreads.
Artists there giving away art for free despite having commissions. They're setting a bad mindset for people; why pay for art when a person can get it for free?

>>2924515
>people like anon will do it for free
Go wait a few months for him to maybe even CONSIDER doing your request amongst all the other ones then

>>2924434
Theres demand but theres also "fuck you im not doing a full body, full color, full detailed background piece for $7"

>>2929254
>Theres demand but theres also "fuck you im not doing a full body, full color, full detailed background piece for $7"

thank you captain obvious

Darkgem does pretty lewd stuff, yet he works in the vidya industry.
Taclebox, same.

>>2929305
You would think it would be obvious.
Apparently not.

>>2924374
>Good clients want to pay you.

Not much