Tracing photographs and claiming that theyre studies

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Ugh my grammar is terrible on the original post. I'm sorry about that.

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most people are happily ignorant about the process of creating art if they like the final product. if you're intelligent and see a market and don't feel bad about manipulating people that is the result. people want to see "super realistic anime girls" they don't care that it's a manipulated photo and just think wow amazing! I think this kind of thing has always been around in art, just look at drew struzans famous poster art, it's obvious that he traces photographs and paints over them but the final product is nice.

>>2908605
Drew Struzan is actually good, though.

The reason he traces is because it expedites the process, not because he's cheating.

>>2908609
it expedites the process a fuckton which I would argue is cheating. he's good at painting, coloring, understanding light and such, which is a huge aspect of creating art sure, but so is what this kind of stuff does >>2908583
to a certain extent.

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maybe I'm being too hard and it's just what the studio wanted for the movies he did, I'm not able to create art on this level. but the final artwork would look a lot more jenky if he didn't trace it. pic related. I don't see how it's much different than ripping off photos, the skills are just better and the audience is larger.

>>2908613
That kind of purist mentality will kill you in the movie industry. It's easy to take that position when you aren't a working professional but when you're given a project on Friday and they expect it to be done by Monday, you'll drop that ego REAL quick when you realize your pride isn't putting food on the table.

Struzan has already proved himself and the directors know that. The world won't stop spinning just so you can take 50 hours on a piece.

>>2908639
I'm not even arguing against it.

How do you know they're tracing? I'm a beginner and given enough time, I can copy the lines I see near-perfectly. It's not that hard.

>>2908641
I wouldn't call it cheating, though, it's just being smart.

Drew explains it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fEMJp70tGU

>>2908650
I admire it for what it is, it's just not something I find interesting or would hang on my wall. same with this kind of stuff >>2908583 but I can see why there's a market for people that want to look at what is essentially. nice photography with an anime sheen put on top of it.

>>2908578
>I'm tired of artists on deviantart becoming popular and making money on patreon by just tracing studies

Well don't look at their deviantart and patreon. Why you cares? Do you like to be tired or something?

>>2908661
this but unironically

>>2908650
Struzan is different than these other guys for a few reasons:
-he is working on a tight deadline and these are not his personal works
-he is using photography given to him by the studio or taken himself, so there is no plagiarism
-he is open about his methods
-he is not simply doing a quick trace and stopping there, he is redrawing it and adding a lot of artistic decisions
-he's not doing just a single portrait, the parts he traces are only a small fraction of the entire work and process for him

>>2908583

Nothing about this looks traced. Why is this in the thread?

>>2908864
Plagiarism presumably. It's just another morally/legally grey area so is somewhat relevant to the discussion.

>>2908870

Well if they are presented as studies, then plagiarism isn't a factor. But I have to admit I did not know that this picture (that I've seen many times before ) was based on a photo. Many digital painters don't seem to care for crediting photographers which is disrespectful at best and deceitful at worst.

>>2908874
Yeah I think at the bare minimum people should mention it is based on a photo. The ideal is to credit the photographer directly, but pretty much no one does that. It's annoying when artists do work that is clearly based on a photo they didn't take and then pass it off as a completely original work.

>>2908609

>The reason he traces is because it expedites the process, not because he's cheating.

He can do what he wants if he gets the job done, but don't entertain a double standard for basically no reason. Either believe tracing is cheating or don't, but don't say tracing is ok if you're a professional and not ok if you're not, that's dumb as shit.

I had a girl in my class who would pass all her assignments this way until one student pointed it out.

We always assumed the teachers knew.

She failed a few assignments after and barely passed the final assignment.

She´s still working in a general art store 4 years after graduating, while most of her peers are moving up in the industry.

So even though (bad) teachers and people who don't persue art may not see it, the industry will.

Don't trace if you want to ''make'' it.

>>2908913
Cheaters are only cheating themselves. Short term gain for long term harm.

>>2908913
Actually had that happen that made me question the ability of that particular artist going forward.

We had to do an assignment of creating our own Escher Lizard type of art. An interlocking, repeating work. This art student copied exactly point for point, detail for detail Escher's version of this that he did using a seahorse. All that student did was change the colors from the original work. That student got a perfect score and the art teacher seemed to be absolutely clueless.

A lot of us found this out quickly, but we didn't want to be the rat who broke the story. More over it really made us all question the other project this student had done over the last three years. All of which were amazingly well done works.

I'm actually friends on facebook with this person and I'm seeing this person post video game fan art that looks spectacularly well done. Not just drawn and inked well but then is coloured well too. On a sketchbook that looks like it is more for doing study work than anything.

This person doesn't show the underlying ground work they did to create the piece, or anything for that matter. It is usually the finished piece and on the rare occasion it is just the inked version prior to being coloured.

This person then sells these to people as commission and the like. Its a shame too, because I looked at this person as someone who I can try and meet in skill, hardwork and dedication. But with one project that was plagiarism to the nth degree, I now question the integrity of that artists work going forward. It hurts to see that take place.

Especially when you see really talented and hardworking people not plagiarism get lower marks in comparison.

It also didn't help that the art teacher really liked this student, and I (or anyone else) didn't want to be the one that shattered that.

>>2908938

In the end grades don't matter as long as you can pass the finaly assignment and graduate.

If the person in question does trace, that person will most likely fall through when trying to get into a studio.

>>2908605
The difference here is that this piece was commissioned

>>2908938
post his work

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>>2908609
Yeah, and he might be known for his Star Wars / Indiana Jones type posters with all the heads, but he can actually paint too. Back when he did album covers early in his career he used to do a lot of Leyendecker type work, like the Alice Cooper one. I still prefer the Sabbath cover, with angels on one side and the devil on the other, but that's just me.

There's documentary called The man behind the poster I think which is pretty good.

I don't know what you people are imagining but nobody can capture in his head the likeness of an actor and just draw it in any posture /expression. If your job is to paint a realistic illustration with the main cast on the poster, then you have to use photographs if you want to achieve a decent result, that's just how it is. It's not a question of cheating, it's a question of common sense

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>>2908966
A piece the person has inked and is colouring (from this month)

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>>2908984
Another piece they did this month.

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>>2908985
A painting they did earlier this month

>>2908578
Gotta say. The only thing stopping me from digging into it any further and getting angry is the realization, one like a heavy blanket, that social media has extremely low standards and no checks.

Not to mention, everyone is busy crucifying racists. I don't think anyone has room to go after the tracing artists.

But yeah, funny to think how these guys are just getting away with it and are probably racking up followers on followers by posting a trace every day.

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>>2908987
and inking a sketch they did

I really, really want to believe this person did this without tracing someone else's work. However that one time really sours it for me and I have to question it every time now.

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>>2908990
here is another one that was in process

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>>2908993
and completed, it looks off to me for some reason.

>>2908644
Can you back your talk tho?

>>2908763
Thank you.

Think its partly the viewers fault for putting the artist on a pedestal. 'Poo, they're human just like me. Time to destroy their patreon followership.'

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>>2908984
>>2908985
are you wondering whether these are copied or not ? because they very obviously are
not because I can tell from the picture, it's just very well known art

>>2908578
>Being on /ic/ and pretending that they're studying

>>2909003
I had been wondering that exactly. I had been tempted on doing reverse image search on the person's work to verify but never got around to doing it.

It hurts to see that being the case. At least the person could be upfront and let people know they were just doing a copy for fun or something.

I wouldn't mind if the person tried to copy it by actually working at copying it. Rather than tracing it perfectly. I try and copy other peoples work to learn something, and because its fun. But I work at it, I don't trace it.

I'm extremely disappointed with that person now.

>>2909006
It's not a trace, i dont think. The lines seem accurate but the shapes are not. There are many small discrepancies.

I believe he did do groundwork, he sketched it on another piece of paper and went at it until it 'looks right.'

Then rendered it with his own choice of colors.

One question: why does this hurt you so much? There are plenty of bland artists on instagram that just copy celebrity portraits thinking they are making art. The bulk of people start that way. They get a image on their computer, and copy it down. They adjust it until its right, and then refine it. And then upload it. How is this new to you?

>>2909009
And to add to that, they did put in work. They aren't 'artists,' sure. They don't exactly represent integrity. But they did put in their own work in their hobby which is defined by their own definition of what art is.

>>2908893
Except there's a difference between tracing because you can't draw and tracing because you want to finish faster.

The word "tracing" is like a trigger word to some people. It's not inherently bad to trace.

>>2909030
>The word "tracing" is like a trigger word to some people. It's not inherently bad to trace.
I think it's a bit like steroids in terms of how people see it. No one cares that Arnie used them and they know that if they traced they wouldn't look like him, but at the same time they are annoyed when normal people use steroids and try to pass it off as natural. Not the perfect analogy since you can do great art without tracing, but still, some interesting parallels I think.

>>2908994
Is he like Photoshopping work onto a sketch pad??

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>>2908879
And it's annoying as fuck when a photographer try to pass of photos as their own without crediting the people in the photos, the car companies who built the cars the photograph, the construction workers who built the buildings they photograph or even the the company that built their camera.

Photographers are literally the whiniest people ever who literally always use somebody else's work while only pushing one button while acting as if they did something.

> look at me I'm an artist now!

>>2909009
>>2909017
personally though it'd be nice that the artist would be upfront about it, if I use a reference I reference that reference. Either by pointing to the original work or the artist themselves.

>>2909046
either it is what>>2909009 >>2909017 said or they are tracing it wholesale. Although it there are indeed small discrepancies than it would indicate that the person did put work in trying to recreate the original piece.

>>2908984
>>2908985
>>2908987
>>2908990
>>2908993
>>2908994
these arnt even good... sub par even

>>2909058
You're probably being facetious, but photographers really are the fucking worst.
Imagine if you could master every technical detail of painting and drawing in a week, that's photography.

OK ok ok..
So if I take the pose from a photo, then fill it in with the features of someone I know, and it turns out looking not really like that person, but still halfway good, then that's plaguerism and not art???

>>2908578
Trace is OK
Check this faggot, his fans suck his dick and he cums in they
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4mwDtaG79E

>>2908644
Post Your Work

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>>2908609
>The reason he traces is because it expedites the process, not because he's cheating.
Where do you draw the line?

>>2909458
>Where do you draw the line?

Over someone else's pictures.

>>2908864
>nothing about this looks traced

It's so obviously traced, you autistic faggot. Get over it.

>>2908893
This.

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>>2909470

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>>2909470

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>>2909470

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>>2908578
1. An study is not supposed to be shown, is intended just for learning, you retard

2. Tracing is a perfectly fine way of learning some things.

3. That picture doesn't prove anything. You can get 100% perfect lines by using a grid or autistically zooming in photoshop

4. Tracing is a legitimate way to do final pieces, as long as the final result is any decent. Pretty sure respected people, like dennis mukai did trace their work

>>2909458
>Where do you draw the line?
Here-ish.
>>2908763

>>2908583
Even disregarding the animu, he completely killed all atmosphere in the original pic.

How can you fuck up so bad?

>>2908985
That's spritework from the actual game. And it looks worse.

>>2908578
Put these niggas on the spot

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>>2909450
>>2908995
Yes. Please follow this thread, I was working on my replication of the guy in pic related. I'll post that soon. Before that though, promise me you won't unfairly roast me. I've only been drawing for about 6 months. Keys to Drawing is the only book I've read.

>>2908987
This is so bad! Look at that face. Look at that neck. Sometimes, coming to /ic/ really makes me feel good about myself.

>>2909418
to be fair, he just sketches the very first general proportions on top of the picture.

a lot of work had to go into that to make what he did later.

I am not specially found of color picking directly from the picture but each to it´s own I guess.

>>2909836
it's actually fine. pleasant colors. looks like something from a kids book.

>>2908864
either retarded or trolling

>>2909418
Tracing
wat

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>>2908609


>"I wasn't cheating I was just expediting the process of achieving personal success."
that's a good one m8 I'll write that down.

>>2910066
>what is reading comprehension

>>2909529
>>2909961

Shapes are different. Tracing wouldn't actually have made it that much easier to get to the end result. It's not THAT fucking hard to copy a photograph, you fucking shitnoobs.

The issue here is not tracing. It's plagiarism and passing it off as completely your own work.

>>2910087
of course it's not literal tracing. but they digitally adjusted it and did a paintover of some sort.

>>2910089

Speaking as a experienced digital painter it would actually have been more of a hassle to get the end result by a paint over than just painting it straight since the shapes are so different. Not a single element in this picture looks traced or painted over. Again, it's not that difficult to copy shapes to their rough equivalence from a photo when you have a bit of experience.

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>Struzan traces

Can I ask in what world you exist where he does this? I've seen footage of the man work from The Man Behind The Poster, he takes photos and then references them.

Like this one.

He took a photo of a couple neighborhood kids hanging out a window by a rope, and then referenced this in combination with behind the scenes photos of the actors and actresses in their onset clothes.

So, what exactly do you think he traced here?

The cave?

>>2910116
right here
>>2908650

>>2910125

Nigga, that ain't tracing.

>makes an outline via a projector from a comp he makes
>does everything else via references as literally shown in the video

If you count that as tracing, anyone who ever uses references or models for anything is a tracer.

>>2910129
You don't think he's ever just traced initially in his comp to get around a quick deadline? The guy who uploaded the video wrote "I am good friends with many illustrators who were either trained by Struzan or who have worked in the business. News flash... They ALL trace photos to speed up the process of producing a finished poster."

>>2910129
he fucking says the words "I trace"

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>>2908987

>>2910173
>>2908987 Misses the mark I'd say.

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>>2908913
>She´s still working in a general art store 4

Completely unrelated to the threads discussion but this reminded of something

>be in michaels
>cant find x product
>ask for help, employee calls over radio
>says coworker will come try and help me
>goes back to looking at pant
>"YES, HELLO I AM A FINE ARTS MAJOR HOW CAN I HELP YOU?"
>looks over
>40, obese, short edgy hair
>....."I am a fine arts major what do you need?"
>"Oh, well, Im a fine arts major and i have never heard of that before"
>"I am a fine arts major i know thats not the right product you need"


Now every time i go back in there I always say " I am a a fine arts major i should work for michaels" hoping she hears me

>>2910129
>makes an outline via a projector from a comp he makes
so the definition of tracing

>>2909470
Nice.