photobashing is gay and stupid.

>taking shortcuts in a high-speed job where the pieces you make are made to communicate an idea instead of making a pretty picture (which get looked at for five minutes then forgotten) are gay and stupid

>>2906500
Why?

>>2906510
how does feng's cock taste? do you even work in the industry? i hate normalfags who just parrot stupid bullshit. Just because it's a tool doesn't mean it's straight and intelligent.

>>2906521
I never said it was straight and intelligent. Why do you get so angry, though? I'm just giving you an alternate perspective. At times it can look pretty bad, but it's what gets the job done and at the day, they're the industry professionals. Not us.

>>2906530
I dunno, man. In that case it's their fault.

>>2906521

It tastes great, senpai. Ask your mom for a full detailed taste narration.

>>2906590
what does cum tastes like?

>>2906673
salty nickels with a hint of sugar

>>2906500
Well, so are you but I don't critique your lifestyle.

Cry some more.

>>2906500

I love Feng Zhu man, putting so much free quality content out there and giving guidance. Photobashing is more of a speed up thing for people who are already pros and need to get an idea to a presentable state fast, because they are on deadlines. Not sure what you got against it, but it ain't going away, man.

>>2906500
t. jobless basement dweller neet who can't even draw

>>2906500
>so many fucking sci-fi "concept" landscapes
Where do these all go? Who pays these people to make these? Like I haven't seen any sci-fi cyberpunk games or movies come out recently.

>>2906922

85% of Concept artwork gets scrapped and it's never used, it's just part of the process.

>>2906922
I feel it's kind of making a comeback. The new GitS, Cyberpunk 2077, Deus Ex, Remember Me, mainstream sci fi has the same feel like Jupiter Ascending or Guardians of the Galaxy. Otherwise it has always been a staple generic piece that is easy to make and looks cool to normies so people do it to pad their portfolios.

I dont even know what photobashing is

>>2906938
It's a digital photo collage with a greater or lesser degree of painting and photoshop tricks to blend it all together seamlessly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu6Y550vv9c

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>>2906922
>Who pays these people to make these?
no one neccessarily. they could be done for portfolio building, practice or fun.
though there's also a lot of ips that get cancelled.

>>2906500

You realize you don't pull this shit off without a strong understanding of fundamentals, right?

>>2906945
>>2906500

I can just see the resources like goofy brushes, hires pics of cities and buildings taking up at least twice the disk space than the actual .psd

Photobashing is a fad. It's effectiveness is grossly overstated and the process leads to bland designs that cannialize the work of others. The process photobashers employ relies too much on "lol look at the random shapes I'm pulling out of photos!" rather than being based in a informed design sense. Good luck designing a new Star Wars universe by pulling together a bunch of photos.

>>2908105
God I hope you're right. I also feel it leads to narrower and more derivative designs unless you are super good, but at the same time I think it will continue to be the norm in the future given how it actually does save a lot of time and it helps with elements that need less design (textures, plants, rocks etc). Seems concept art will end up being nearly entirely 3d and photos except in some specific cases like for animation or other heavily stylized work.

Nothing wrong with Photobashing if you are a pro. Specially if your work is concept art, you need to get ideas to a presentable state very fast. Feng Zhu can obviously work perfectly fine without Photobashing.

>>2906521
Straight and intelligent... ? lol you're really going to argue for 'gay and stupid' by saying 'straight and intelligent'? XD

You just outted yourself as an early to mid-teen troll.

>>2906500
It seems like everything is going 3d lately anyway so it probably won't matter in like, a month. Look at artstation. All concept work is going almost entirely 3d.

3d plates at least. Maybe they will still photobash textures over top of those plates, or just UV them on, photos will still be useful in some way most likely.

>>2906801
It seems to kinda be going away. Actually. Things are turning almost entirely 3D.

>>2906922
There are more tv series, shows, movies, and games, that are sci fi or at least 'futuristic' than at any other time in history, I'm pretty sure.

So while it might be something people love to do for fun, there is probably also a lot of legitimately used sci fi concept art out there by this point.

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>>2908120
I agree and think feng zhu is the cream of the crop in terms of people that specialize in photobashing, but that's because he already has a strong understanding of perspective and fundementals. something like this of his is far more impressive to me than the op pic because I know it's not just pictures of a firehydrant or a water refinement plant mashed together.

>>2906938
It's more complex than it sounds. The rough answer is 'bashing photos together' the actual truth is, using photos to get quick details, shapes, and design ideas while working on a concept piece.

Generally you have to force the photos to color coordinate, fit a perspective grid, and paint over them largely to fit into the lighting too, or in later stages of painting, you use them with an overlay layer or a low opacity layer of some kind to texture your under painting quickly instead of painting every detail by hand.

It's not really 'stupid' at all, despite what the OP said, it's actually rather difficult to do even when you're a well trained artist - keep in mind being a concept artist is a very rare job because of the high skill bar - and it's smart in that it saves a lot of time.

>>2906949
Not just understanding, a craaaap ton of practice and mad art skills.

>there is thousand videos, interviews telling difference between concept art and illustration and why photobash exist
>there is thousand videos about "real concept art" and what actually concept art is
>still creating same shitposting threads again and again just to post retarded memes for degenerates

>>2908105
And yet all the latest Starwars movies had people like Feng Zhu working on them and no doubt there are photobashed concepts floating around out there for them.

It depends on what you mean by 'informed design sense', have you ever watched a professional concept artist work? What do you know about design? People like Feng Zhu (since everyone is mentioning him here) use informed design sense in every single picture they make, that's why their ability to use photobashing is so effective in the first place.

He employs silhouette, value, focal points, symmetry, geometry, rhythm, etc. and he does it deliberately, meaning he's informed. If you don't believe me watch a single episode of him on youtube making a painting, he talks endlessly about the design decisions he's making.

What's the point in pretending you know something? It makes you look silly on here.

op here, I retract my statement, overblown nonsensical sci fi cityscape photobashes that are everywhere on the internet are stupid and gay.

>>2908118
It's because speed is King. Time is money. If time wasn't money it wouldn't matter how long it takes an artist to come up with a design. Having said that, you can be just as boring and stuck NOT using photos or other methods to try and create something new and unique as you do when you DO use them.

Things like finding new shapes or patterns with photos are just a tool, and they do actually help a lot. Part of the stress of being a concept artist is the need to CONSTANTLY innovate, which is pretty much impossible without introducing SOME random element into what you're doing.

If every artist had a library of objects in their heads like Kim Jung Gi, then MAYBE you could have all concept artists give up tools like photobashing, but realistically it's just not possible to innovate that much in such a short amount of time.

So yah, some stuff comes out with a similar look/style because of the photobashing tool, but also a lot of innovation comes from it too.

It may be used too much but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used at all or like the OP said, that it's 'stupid'.

>>2908607
Not that guy and although I agree that Feng does make educated design decisions as a whole, the actual design process in his photobashed work is him having a general idea and theme in mind and then looking through his photo gallery, randomly selecting shit he thinks looks cool. The end result always looks far worse than his hand drawn designs.

Also, as far as Star Wars goes, yes, I'm sure they had a bunch of photobashers working on the pre-vis stuff, but I assure you anything that needed actual design work that went down the production pipeline to costume designers, makeup artists, CGI artists etc was drawn and not photobashed. Photobashing is used to create quick mood pieces that show a general, very rough idea, it is a completely worthless technique when your task is to properly design something.

>>2906500
It's true. For some reason outsiders put everything industry people do on a pedestal. This is the sausage being made, it's weird to idolize it. You have outsiders now emulating absolute trash and thinking it has value.

Example of how this has degraded the quality of commercial art and lowered the bar. Millennials who grew up on manga, anime/comics, disney. They idolize an artstyle that's main purpose was SPEED, lots of panels, lots of frames of animation, it was simple because it had to be. But this became a new standard, suddenly pinups/still images in an anime style are considered something to aspire to. This is how we arrived at this deviant art trash, what's nothing more than a single frame of animation rendered out has value now? Box art and covers use to be gorgeous painted illustrations and now comic book covers look as bad as the interior art...(which keeps getting worse, in spite of these wonderful tools)

>>2908585
>feng zhu is the cream of the crop in terms of people that specialize in photobashing
Lol anon, he's not anywhere near the top for photobashing. He's an alright pro and is super fast, but there are numerous guys with 10x his skill.

>>2908751
You have no clue what you are talking about. The stylistic choices made by Disney, manga / anime, comics etc are not done merely for speed purpose. Disney especially was a complete game changer for how artists think about appeal and shape language.

Your argument sounds every bit as idiotic and uneducated as someone who would claim a Sargent or Zorn painting is a step-down to a tightly rendered renaissance piece, simply because they are too stupid or ignorant to understand the different appeal those paintings have and how expertly they succeed at what they attempt to do.

And please don't reply with "Hurr you just compared anime and manga to Sargent paintings durrr!" No I didn't. It's sad that I have to even point this out, but idiots like you are incredibly predictable in how they argue.

>>2908767
>You have no clue what you are talking about.
I do actually thanks, I'm well aware there is more to the style...i think/know economy (speed) is a pillar. I also feel like a style meant for animation or sequential art has been spun off into something else, for better for worse.

My statements only sound idiotic if you think i'm attacking stylized work and that offends you, i'm not.

>>2908575

Nah, Feng Zhu recently made a video about this and 2D is not going anywhere soon.

>>2908902
And? Other pros have said the opposite. John Sweeney just said in an interview a couple days ago that it's all heading towards 3d and photobashing. If you actually keep up with job postings and openings from companies you'll see how many 3d positions there are and how many of the "2d" positions actually require about half the workflow to be in 3d.

>>2908904
I think traditional will be completely gone eventually but not until we have complete fully realized vr

>>2908904

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6t2iRO9KmU


This interview? This guy doesn't sound sure of himself at all. Plus this guy is working for Naughty dog while Feng Zhu is on top of the industry and has worked for the biggest shit out there.

>>2908585
it seems like every episode of design cinema feng manages to talk about how much he hates spiky mountains, and yet look what we have here...

>>2908935

You don't really get to tell clients rocky mountains are bad, okay?

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>>2906521
These are the people critiquing your work on /ic/

>>2908105
Photobashing is a solution to an entertainment industry with tight deadlines. Besides, even if it were a submedium rather than a strategic way to communicate something, how is it that much more removed from collaging as an art form? Although yeah there's definitely more bad than good photobashed work visible around the web.

>>2908922
>Plus this guy is working for Naughty dog while Feng Zhu is on top of the industry and has worked for the biggest shit out there.
I legit can't tell if this is bait or not.

lol, looks like most people don't remotely understand how incredibly rare it is for someone to be skilled and dedicated enough to make it in concept art. good luck queers

>>2908623
You didn't need two paragraphs to agree with the post you were responding to but express your dislike of how true it was.

>>2908751
Comic artists are some of the most skilled figure artists alive. Don't believe me? Ask MASTER FIGURE ARTIST Jeff Watts.

There are some things about Manga specifically that are for speed, but that doesn't mean like the other person pointed out, that it isn't done with skill or with appeal in mind.

The simplicity of design in Disney was due to the nature of hand drawing frames, things were 'rounded' because it's easier to turn a rounded form without any obvious mistakes.

Draughtsmen like Milt Kahl are extremely skilled artists and simplicity does not mean something is not masterful, skillful, or appealing, or 'not art' or not on par with fully rendered paintings in terms of value.

So you have a fully rendered rembrant on one hand, and a two hour film of moving art on the other, which is more valuable? You see what's going on here? Animation like disney had movement, it was a different art form, it wasn't just one still image, and the designs worked in motion. I think 2 hours of moving artwork is INCREDIBLE and not any less valuable.

I think you're being a bit of a snob, really.

>>2908754
There are not numerous guys with 10x the skill of Feng Zhu. He's super rare and his speed is a factor. He makes good design decisions with fantastic fundamentals, quicker than most people.

There are VERY few concept artists in the world, period. It's a rare skill, a rare job, and there really aren't that many people who can do it, and on top of that, he's in the top rankings of his field.

He's also been using photobashing since it started, on top of all that.

So yah, he probably IS near the top for photobashing.

If he's not in the 'top' ranking, then nobody is.

>>2908902
I've watched the same video you're talking about and I'm an artist who has looked around and that's not the take away or impression that I got.

He clearly said something similar to what I'm saying, the tools used are changing and 2D as a tool in this particular line of work is going out. Not away entirely, but a huge chunk of it is being replaced by 3D as a tool.

>>2909097
>There are VERY few concept artists in the world, period. It's a rare skill, a rare job, and there really aren't that many people who can do it
There's literally thousands of pros if not tens of thousands of pros. Given how ubiquitous photobashing has become it's not hard to believe there are a lot of high level guys out there doing it. Don't forget that for every famous name there are like 10 guys in the same office as him who are less known but just as good if not better.

Feng is a solid pro--he's fast and consistent. But his designs are repetitive and the last few years he's focused more on teaching than on working.

>>2908910
I don't think traditional 2d art will go away completely, any more than music will. But 2d in pipelines for concepting? Yah, probably for everything except obviously rare 2d projects of one kind or another.

Since 2d is a style there will always be someone doing real 2d for something or another.

2d can be faked in animation and games etc. with 3d but that doesn't mean everyone will do it.

Otherwise movies like Kubo wouldn't exist (stop motion animation). Stop motion is old. And yet every now and then someone does it. Kubo could have been made way easier with 3D, and the animation would have been smoother, but instead, they went hardcore and made real physical puppets.

>>2909102
Tens of thousands? You're just making numbers up on the spot and it's obvious to everyone.

The internet makes EVERYTHING seem like it's not rare. There are NOT very many people working in Concept Art, ASK a real concept artist.

Don't pretend you know something because 'google' gives you the impression that there are lots of people doing it professionally.

Why not use google properly and do a search query for whether or not it's actually a rare job.

You'd be lucky if you were right even saying thousands.

>>2909122
Well I was guessing based on the fact that forums for this stuff had hundreds of thousands of accounts as of a few years ago when that was still a common type of website for people to participate on. Since approximately 90% of people just lurk and don't make accounts, that would put a few million people for the forums in terms of visitors at least. Count in the fact that the industry has grown a lot since then and there are many countries that use different sites, it's not unreasonable to conclude there are thousands of pros (even using conservative guesses with like a fraction of a percentage of those previously mentioned people actually being pros).

Any major studio will have a few thousand employees, so even if only a small number of those are in the art department it really adds up when you consider how many studios there are, and the fact that a lot of artists freelance.

>>2909093
READ the fucking post slowly. Your post is evidence to my point. I'm saying that fan's who grew up on animation and comics took something, SEQUENTIAL ART AND ANIMATION and spun it off into a subset of ILLUSTRATION.

By removing it from it's mediums context and transposing it to another imho they created a spin off that i PERSONALLY think is trash.

You guys are so quick to use someones post as a springboard into a canned rant, you completely ignore what they're saying... for what? a chance to parrot some 2nd hand knowledge you picked up?

>>2909136

>Any major studio will have a few thousand employees

Jesus christ man, go back to studying and learning about the world for a few years and come back later.

>>2909196
http://static9.cdn.ubisoft.com/ubigroupstatic/en-US/global/img/company/Ubisoft%20Facts%20Figures%20February%202016_238554.pdf
I just looked up the first company to come to mind, and they have 10k employees. Again, I didn't say they are all artists, but they still will have several art departments within them.

>>2909136
Nice walk back from tens of thousands. I wonder if you did the google search for 'how rare is being a concept artist' and thought 'oh crap this guy is right, how do I walk this back without seeming like I was wrong...'

>>2909204
dude, just chill with whatever FZD is selling you, take everything he says about "the industry" with a massive boulder size piece of salt.

>>2909172
Comic art isn't illustration according to you? Or what? You're just being a snob, and people are pointing it out. You can think it's trash all you want, but other people clearly don't think it's trash.

Do you feel you're 'so right' that it's worth getting angry about?

>>2906500
photobashing is cool and awesome.

>>2909213
I think you really under estimate the sheer size of the entertainment industry. There's thousands of studios worldwide for video games and film. It's literally a multiple billion dollar industry.

>>2909172
>Millennials who grew up on manga, anime/comics, disney. They idolize an artstyle that's main purpose was SPEED, lots of panels, lots of frames of animation, it was simple because it had to be. But this became a new standard, suddenly pinups/still images in an anime style are considered something to aspire to. This is how we arrived at this deviant art trash

Sure doesn't sound like you were misread to me. It was pointed out that comic illustration was actually good illustration in reply to you ranting and raving about it. So you used the OP as a springboard for your own canned rant to trash stuff you don't like and preach it like it's gospel and all the people who like those art styles are wrong and you're right.

>>2909221
Actually, pretty sure Feng Zhu himself has disagreed with what this guy is saying, and has pointed out on numerous videos that his job is rare.

>>2909234
Video games are actually a good example of how you're overestimating the amount of concept artists.

There are millions and millions of copies of video games world wide, but how many actual game titles are there, since the beginning of gaming?

Relatively much fewer.

I can read about someone winning the lottery about once every two weeks or so, makes it seem like it's not rare! Because--internet.

I can find people who want to transition into horses. Like have surgery to become a horse. On the internet.

I can find thousands of photos of ultra rare diseases as if they were ubiquitous.

I can also google search still image photographs of the planet earth and get a million hits, but then realize that it's usually the same picture again from 1972. In almost every single picture.

Concept art is similar - though less rare than some of those things, it's still rare. You're seeing a lot of work, from a relatively small number of people.

It is a rare job. There aren't many people doing it. That was the main point of the post that began this back and forth, and you KNOW it's right, so you had to back up all your claims, but honestly, your claims didn't even matter, because even if there were 10 000, that would still make it severely rare as a job.

>>2909234
All you have to do is google labor statistics to see that being an artist of ANY kind is already a rare job, then you get specific and say 'visual artist' and the job becomes even more rare, and then you get VERY specific and say 'concept artist' and you've got a suuuper rare job.

Most of the jobs for visual artists these days are for 3D, and even in that field which is the biggist, it's still a pretty rare job.

I think you're confusing the bazillions of hobbyists on the internet for working artists.

>>2909234
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes271019.htm

There is no way you're right.

>>2909222
>Comic art isn't illustration according to you?
I think Sequential Art and Illustration are 2 different art forms under Narrative Art.

>>2909234
Look at how many AAA projects ship a year, know the same talent works across these projects. Realize pre-production is very short. Growth is inflated by a frictionless marketplace (app store) where artists may not even be getting paid due to over saturation. Lot's of "growth" at the bottom, and a tippy top 1 percent.