Monkey See - Monkey Do

Nigga, it's not do this one thing or that one thing. You do all of them. Copying is a weird term to use, it really means study, but copying works. Copying is the best way. Even if all you could do is draw like KJG because you copy him, is that not good enough?

>>2897806
algenpfleger's entire method was basically make studies of photographs, then apply from imagination until it sticks. worked for him.

>>2897806
Books can supplement when you get stuck but where you really improve (and learn) is doing studies. Everything in art, stylized or not is derived from life.

>>2897811
>algenpfleger
Why did he suddenly update his artstation a month ago?

>>2897806
Hnnnggggg muuh diick!!!

If you think kjg just drew a bunch of boxes and magically learned to draw you're a jackass. The boxes are a construction / perspective aid, you still need other knowledge, it doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

Likewise Frazetta copying Bridgman's drawings doesn't mean that was the "secret" to his success, it's not ALL he did to get good.

>>2897806
thats not what monkey see monkey do means but ok.

>>2897811
>algenpfleger's
I remember when he was coming up on Concept art.org

I am really glad I was around then. I am really sad I fucked off and didn't do any art for a few years while I studied programming.

I am glad they made it. Now that I am back and trying things again I think about how much of a missed opportunity it was for young me to not have pushed harder to be with the in crowd then.

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>>2897806
>Frazetta
Why does he get memed so often on here? His work wasn't that great (IMO it's absolute shite but I guess most of the people here just have bad taste)

OP you're right except you should have mentioned the part visualization and memory play. Of course we copy so we can draw more intuitively, but most importantly I think is the internalization of the image in the visual library

>>2897988
agreed, frazetta is skilled but overrated.

>>2897813
Fuck do I study tho?

>>2898009
seconding this

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>>2897988
Frazzetta put out shitty paintings sometimes but most of the time his work is a lot better than that

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>>2897988
>Why does he get memed so often on here?

Because he was a great draftsman and other than the hardcore dunning kruger sufferers like yourself, anyone with half a working brain can see that. If you were an artist yourself, you'd know that you never lose the ability to do bad work, no matter how great a level of mastery you have achieved. So yes, you will find plenty of paintigns and drawings of his that have wonky anatomy and derpy animal faces and whatnot. That doesn't change the fact that he was a better artist than you will ever be even if you had 500 years time to work on your art.

>>2897988
Very fluid gestures and strong poses, simple and classy compositions, for the most part good anatomy and form of his figures. What he's most known amongst artists however is his inking and shadow grouping. A lot of artists have studied his work for those qualities. Unfortunately, the fact that you cannot see any of this does not bode well for your artistic future.

>>2897806
>Frank Frazetta apparently copied one of Brigman's books

Source?

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>>2897988

>>2897806
Use whatever you need to make it click in your head. The only thing I know for a fact is that not every method works for everyone.

>>2897968
It's not too late, anon. You recognize your error, now is your chance!

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>>2898102
>all that projection

No one said he doesn't have technical skill, no one even mentioned anatomy so I don't know what you're going on about. The real issue is that his artistic value is trash. Frazzeta was an arrogant shit who thought he would be remembered like Botticelli or someone, and that reflects in his work

>>2898109
I agree with you on some counts, but as far as his 'classy composition' goes I'd wager this were merely a successful attempt in feeding the (bad) taste of a particular American current

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>>2898181

>>2898102
>meanwhile random no-name artists straight outta china draw 100x times better than him

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>>2897806
>How much can be learned from just copying?
>The great masters copied LIFE
Then why don't you do the same? It's not fucking rocket science, buddy. Draw from life, and quit trying to be the next "somebody" out there. It's your decision to be a great original artist, or a mediocre shit-tier anime artist.
Best you could learn from books is simplified anatomy and how to use guidelines, but even then you could figure out your own techniques for it all on your own. Quit being fucking lazy.

>>2898181
I agree with you anon, he's an okay draftsman but he brings nothing as an artist.

/ic/ doesn't actually care about art, they just want to "git gud", and if they ever do they'll end up like frazetta, just imitating lurid comic book illustrations, improving on the past, but never actually making art that's new and honest and personal, which is a decent measure of someone's artistic success, not just what >>2898109 said

Not that there's anything wrong with liking frazetta's drafting. But christ this board has such a narrow focus, if these guys went out to a gallery and tried to experience other people's art in person or read any other art book besides how to draw self help guides maybe they'd stop trying to be like Kim Jung Gi and Loomis and start trying to make art that they want to make.

>>2897811
Brad Rigney also did this.

>>2898181
>>2898312

Post your work. Let us see your "new, honest and personal" work you pretentious faggots.

>>2898181
>artistic value
end yourself

>>2897806

>How much can be learned from just copying?

Nothing, if you only see what you're copying as a bunch of lines with no relationship to each-other. Nothing if you don't get the feeling of what you're copying. Nothing if you don't pick up the stylistic elements of the image.

>copying one book in a day
It's just a folk-story anon. Muscle memory to that degree is also a meme.

>And men like Kim Jung Gi, drew lots of Boxes, supposedly so many boxes that he turned into a demi-god (supposedly the god of boxed forms) and now can draw anything! (wow)

No, he says you need actual understanding of the subject matter to draw it as well. You can't just throw boxes at things you don't understand visually.

>Is just copying a book multiple times better than reading it and then applying what you've read to your various studies?
Some say youre better at soaking in the information through the repetition of copying the material than reading the material once or twice and then applying it to something after the fact.

It depends how theoretical the information is. You can't just draw the pictures in 'Practice and Science of Drawing', nor can you just copy the paintings in 'Alla Prima' due to the instruction being mostly in the text.

The best way to learn with a book is to deconstruct the information in the book, take note of the important points explained in text, and master it piece by piece. If it's an anatomy book, it's a book about the anatomy of the head, neck/shoulders, torso, legs, and hands. You pick a section, copy the drawings, apply them to your studies, apply them to your drawings from imagination, copy the drawings, re-read the text when you're confused. You just repeat this over and over. But instead of continuing on to another part prematurely, when you still have no fucking idea what you're doing, you keep working on one part until you do. You can also cross-reference sources on the same subject to achieve higher understanding and mastery.

>>2897809
>>2897811
>>2897813
I like the sharp contrast between these posts
>>2897922
and this post. It's beautiful.

>>2897806

Frazetta was big bullshitter, he didn't copied Bridgman books not in a day, nor through the weekend.

Also for most of his illustrations he hired models, made photographs and just painted over it.

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>>2897806

>>2898397
pff would still bang.

OP here. for all of you who took that kim jung shit seriously; learn what sarcasm is

>>2897806
(brace yuorself)

just copying. JUST copying?

Nigga are you fuckn high?

ART
******IS***********
COPYING

YOU ARE LITERALLY COPYING THINGS EVERY TIME YOU ARE DRAWING.

EVERY

SINGLE

TIME

THAT'S IT.

U CANT ESCAPE IT

YOU CAN'T WEASEL YOUR WAY OUT OF IT.

YOU'RE COPYING. C-O-P-Y-I-N-G.

you could call it "studying" but that's just trying to make it sound like what you're doing requires brain cells (spoilers: it doesn't you dont have to be smart AT ALL to be good at art, and in fact the more GOOD artists I hang around the more I start to think being dumb is an ADVANTAGE not a disadvantage to making good art).

You're still copying at the end of the day. No way around it.

Also, it is true you can make art without copying::: by ""expressing" (scribbling/""""intuition"""") which is distinct from copying but even that still has to refer to SOMETHING otherwise it's just random bullshit and you can't really say """"you"""" made it because it's just fucking random.

point is, if you can't handle the fact that 99.99999% of art is COPYING, then you're in the wrong fucking business buddy. There are plenty of other types of jobs that require a functioning brain so if you really don't like COPYING, pick a different job.

I'd also like to thank our father who ART in hevane MOOT for our blessed website in which I can write comments like this and not get falgged. FUCK U quora and stackexchange for your fucking """""standards""""""

>>2899034
saved

>>2898247
Not really. Most of those no-name photorealistic peoples' art is boring as fuck, and has none of the energy that Frazetta's did.

>>2899034
post your art

>>2898331
nice meme reply

>>2897806
inoue kiyoshiro is fantastic. I like his (her?) work too

>>2897988
>most of the people have bad taste
The favourite words of the pleb.

>>2898247
>random no-name artists
Read that again and ask yourself why you'd want to emulate their path rather than that of a minor legend.

>>2899577
because a random no name that's better 100x times at drawing is still better at drawing.

>>2897806
>How much can be learned from just copying?
Everything.
Reading the books will prove useless, the people who wrote them were not acquintances with pedagogy, most weren't even in casual terms with semiotics. You're not getting a higher enlightment from their ramblings. Even Leonardo, the most tediously descriptive autist ever, is useless if all you try to absorb from him is his rethoric.

Draw, bitch, you're not learning to draw any other way.

>>2899585
Then be a nobody with a false perception of your own worth.
You're not better than anyone if only your and a handfull of contrarian imbeciles think so.

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>>2899575
>>most of the people have bad taste
>The favourite words of the pleb.

>'plebian, "of or characteristic of the lower class," 1560s in a Roman historical sense, from Latin plebeius "belonging to the plebs," earlier plebes, "the populace, the common people" (as opposed to patricians, etc.), also "commonality; the mass, the multitude; the lower class," from PIE *ple- (see pleio-).'

>>2899590
okay justin beiber.

>>2898009
>>2898011
>everything in art is derived from life
>but what do I study???
life
literally fucking anything you see around you or can find images of

>>2899595
Your point?

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>>2899624
A pleb, by definition, wouldn't say 'most of the people have bad taste'

>>2899639
wow you're really shit with this whole semantics thing aren't you

>>2899639
The pleb is the most likely person to be the idiot who thinks he himself is not a pleb.
"scio me nihil scire" is the very first step out of ignorance.

>>2899034
You made me sad remembering I am not dumb enough to be happy just by living and never will.

>>2899648
We're taking about taste in art though, not Socratic wisdom. If I like anime and I acknowledge that it's rather plebian, that doesn't make me less of a pleb

>>2899661
Kids watching Naruto think they know anime.
The pleb always thinks he knows better, no matter the subject. With experience and inquiry comes the realization that you don't know shit and an openness to empirical experimentation.

>>2899747
frazetta sucks

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>>2899753
>frazetta sucks

>>2899753
Of course, and so do Schiele and Mucha, Rockwell and Leyendecker, Picasso and Waterhouse. All shit compared to an obscure chinese flash in the pan and some washed out instructor that meant so much to art history his books went out of print before those of his contemporaries or successors.

You're still a base pleb.

>>2899747
>The pleb always thinks he knows better, no matter the subject
That isn't some dogma that can be universally applied to everything. It's not like in religion or philosophy where the mere act of realizing that you're a sinner or know nothing improves you; your 'openness to empirical experimentation' doesn't automatically follow

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>>2899762
>people call this good art

>>2899766
>some pleb getting brainwashed by history books written by jews and white themselves circlejerking calls others pleb

>>2897806
L noses and a 6 for a mouth. Such great bodies but bland as shit faces.

>>2899648
>>2899747
The irony is strong here. It's like you're not even aware that Frazetta was one of the most arrogant artists there was. He tooted his own horn all his life, shat over his peers because of his superiority complex, and here you are defending him in the name of modesty

frazetta sucks

>>2899871
Indeed

>>2899866
I'm not defending Frazetta, I'm offending anon.
Plebs desserve nothing but disdain.

>>2900474
you sound disdained

>>2897988
what do you mean? this pic is awesome

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damn frazetta is a god

>>2900596
Dey foun da wyt wimminz. Trex popo 2 bisy etin dey donus....bix nood mufuga bird tell dem gime mah wimmins bak.

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not really in to that 70s action man aesthetic but I like a lot of his paintings and can acknowledge his talent.

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>>2900596
>those rocks to the right

>>2899783
pyw fegget.

>>2897806
>cumdrips
Fucking gay as fuck

>>2900610
I like how the paintings are so muddy just like how our imaginations are.

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>>2900607

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>>2900607
I think in this case I can unironically say that you are ngmi

>>2898397
thanks for the fucking kek holy shit

>>2898397
>putting this much effort into a shitpost

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>>2897806
Copying is a good strategy of learning. It has involves plenty of analyzing shapes, lines, proportions and all that shit. It helps you learn the basic form of objects really quick and once you've drawn a certain object a good amount of times, it becomes like muscle memory. But obviously, you want to use other techniques as well.