How can one get so good? How long do you have to grind shit for this?

>>2893202
It's pretty high level. Could easily take a decade to get there, but to be honest 99% of people never even approach it. Also you don't get there by grinding, you get there by putting a lot of thought into every piece and studying deliberately. Grinding implies mindless repetition.

>>2893212
You can't think for 16 hours a day, yet you see people telling that it's necessary to do that much work

>>2893202
thats heavily referenced...theres a statue photo of that

>>2893217
That's because anyone who claims that you should be putting in 16 hour days is talking out of their ass.

>>2893224
So? Sargent painted his portraits from life and it doesn't make his work any weaker. The image in OP is still extremely high level.

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>>2893202
>Lin Ran
Dude, that's Lin Ran, that artist is at an almost inhuman level, that's a really big goal. Have their color and light tutorial here http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php/148355-translation-LINRAN-s-Light-and-Colour-Tutorial-Mini-tut-BIG-download!

also this >>2893212
Jaime Jones says you gain more from two hours of thoughtful practice than 8 hours of mindless tinkering.

>>2893202
Experience. You can bet his early work doesn't look like that, but because you don't see it or have an idea of it, you assume this is what they've always been capable of. Human assumption is dangerous. Just as human reasoning is dangerous. They assume since something always takes time, that there's a set amount of time for something to occur, not really true. It's easy to answer with years because you can't dispute that it took years, but the true answer is it's impossible to measure. You can't measure the time it took, that's impossible.

>>2893229

b-but its just a photostudy! photostudies are easy lool

>>2893212
>Also you don't get there by grinding, you get there by putting a lot of thought into every piece and studying deliberately.

whenever someone says something like this, you know they draw <3hrs/day.

not gonna make it.

>>2893202
>How long do you have to grind shit for this?

Long enough to understand how values work. How long that takes depends on a lot of variables, but it's all on you. When you legitimately enjoy what you're doing, 8 hours goes by in a snap.

I've got good news for you, you have found something that you appreciate and want to emulate. You have completed the first step, now fucking work!

>>2893202
Not related but sauce on the statue?

>>2893217
if you can think critically for 16hrs a day, without feeling drained, then you should stop drawing and become a scientist or engineer; they need people like that

>>2893202
i dont get it this isnt even good?

>>2893497
What makes it stand out to people is the strokes of texture that follows along the shapes. Normies are easily impressed like that. It's a competent value study but not hard to replicate if you know your shit.

>>2893559
even i can do this... just fucking glaze it with an opacity brush over the forms and use a softbrush.

>>2893559
>>2893561

So this is the true face of Dunning-Krüger

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>>2893567
? you really just have to try and not be a lil bitch about it.

>>2893232

It sucks that his sketchbook on CA.org is totally defunct now, as are the sketchbooks of all the greats.

>>2893202
Is this based on a sculpture or is it original?

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>>2893567
Dunning kruger comes in many foms

>>2893579
That looks like shit

>>2893579
hahaha, wow. I really hope this was meant as a joke post.

>>2893615
>>2893625
now thats kruger

>>2893644
Dude, just stop, you are embarassing yourself. Save that Linran painting and put it into a folder with what you just painted and look at it again in a year or 2. If you improved at all during that time and got over your extreme case of dunning kruger syndrome, you'll shit bricks.

>>2893202
10000 hours

>>2893202
just keep grinding till you get results....

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>>2893202

>>2893492
do it and feel drained anyway.

>>2893579
Anon, that isn't terrible. But it is beginner tier. The texture is not what makes OP image impressive.

>>2893202
Sculpting is easier than drawing. You need to know some drawing to plan it it though but it helps you become a better drawer.

Goddamn there's a lot of beginners on /ic/ who seem to underestimate the level of Linran. Saying "just grind for a bit" or "just understand values" is such a huge understatement. There's a lot more going on in that image than just a bit of texture at the end too. This is why no one on /ic/ will ever be able to paint at even half this level.

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>>2893497
>>2893559
>>2893561
>>2893579

>>2893801
there's no eraser if you fuck it up

>>2893579
thanks for the laugh
>>2893559
>What makes it stand out to people is the strokes of texture that follows along the shapes
idiot

>>2893820
kruger is real with this one

>>2893789
i wasnt going for texture retard. im not gonna spend hours to fully render it out. i made my point its not fucking hard to make it. lets see your attempt nigger

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>>2893824
you really can't tell what's wrong, can you

>>2893828
point it out to me

>>2893830
no, go study some more and look at your picture in two months, thank us then

>>2893838
LOL not one person in here can make a better than what i did fucking NOOBS LOL

>"How do I play basketball as well as (player in the NBA)?"

>"Just shoot some hoops bro"

>"You should learn the rules of the game. Once you know them it's just a matter of playing."

>"Normies are impressed by NBA players, but really it's just the dribbling they are impressed by. It's easy, you just need to bound the ball. Here's a video of me doing it as proof." *posts video of awkwardly bouncing a basketball while standing still*

>"Lol you guys are noobs if you can't even dribble like this, prove to me you are better at dribbling"

>>2893481
Immortal Love by Daniel Chester French

Just get TinEye, it's a reverse image search. Took me 30 seconds.

>>2893824
> i made my point its not fucking hard to make it.

But the turd you posted is lightyears apart from that LinRan study. It's typical shit you see in the beginner thread. You proved the exact opposite of what you set out to prove, that this LinRan painting is way harder to do than anything you could even come remotely close to doing with your current skill level.

>>2893810
But anon, if you had read this thread, you'd know that virtually everyone agrees with your statemnt, except for 2 delusional noobies we are all laughing at. Why are you such a contrarian faggot that you always have to pretend it's you vs the uneducated masses of /ic/ when clearly the vast majority of /ic/ agrees with you?

>>2893812
That's why you start with a clay model like every sculptor in history did.

>>2893202
2-3 years

>>2893217
>2017
>actually believing some of these pro's actually have put 12 a day
lmao

>>2894021
I too don't believe people who claim that they draw for 12 hours. It's fucking tiresome even without thinking

>>2894076
Some people have definitely put in 12 to 16 hour days of art, but it's not something that can be done long term and is not recommended. It's more like if they are working on a project with an insane deadline, or if they are in a crunch time at a high end art school. They usually crash and burn for a bit afterwards too since it's simply not sustainable.

>>2894084
I hate to break this to you but 16 hours a day is very common among artists from the older generation (Paul Bonner, Donato Giancola, Iain McCaig). Our generation is just lazy thanks to various factors like short attention spans due to media and a different work environment.

>>2894103
And all of this was mindless shit, what a great achievement.

>>2894014
This, if you have decent motor skill (can use charcoal without snapping it) and study at a good atelier

>>2894103
They're not putting in 16 hours of art every day. Or if they claim to be doing that then they are not counting their hours properly.

>>2894150
>>2894160

What many people don't seem to understand is that whenever artists throw around crazy numbers like 12-16 hours a day, they don't mean studying. These people genuinely ENJOY art. In your mind, you keep thinking "that's impossible, no one can WORK for 16 hours a day" but to them, it's play, not work. If a video game addicted NEET told you he spends 16 hours a day playing World of Warcraft, would you not believe him? Why is it so hard to believe that there are people out there who are similarly addicted to drawing?

>>2894178
But if you are a pro doing those hours then it IS work. Even if you enjoy the work, which isn't always the case, you still need to use a lot of thinking and brainpower. You also underestimate just how much 16 hours is. If you only slept for 6 hours a night then you'd be left with only 2 hours each day to eat your meals, cook, do groceries and errands, spend time with your wife or kids, commute, shower, exercise etc.

I think a lot of it is people say they "work 16 hours a day" but it's not actual solid work. They might be sitting at a desk about that long and doing work, but they're also taking tons of breaks and doing other things, and if you were to track with a stopwatch the exact time that they are putting stylus to tablet then it would be only a fraction of that time.

>>2894178
>If a video game addicted NEET told you he spends 16 hours a day playing World of Warcraft, would you not believe him? Why is it so hard to believe that there are people out there who are similarly addicted to drawing?

What a shit comparison. Playing a game is fucking easy compared to drawing, you don't have to think much and most games are streamlined. What this guy said >>2894187

It's not literally 16 hours of drawing, it may be 16 hours of fucking around and thinking but not literally drawing all the time.

>>2893838
>hey guys, can you point out wrong with my work?
>no, go study some more and look at your picture in two months, thank us then
/ic/ in a nutshell

this should be a banner on this board

Guys, look at it from a statistical standpoint. Without a doubt there are crazy artists out there, who really do draw 16 hours a day and Iain McCaig is likely one of them. I'm not sure where I read it but after a workshop or something similar, where he drew all day, he was asked what he'd do once he got to his hotel, and his answer was "draw even more" with a grin on his face. That guy is nuts and he's not the only one, for sure. BUT he's the exception.
Take artists working in studios for example, most of them have 9-5 workdays and that's the vast majority of working artists in the entertainment industry.

>>2894200
It works at least. It might turn people bitter, but it works.

>>2894202
>"draw even more"
>tfw Ruan jia does the same thing
>tfw you would rather browse and funpost instead of draw even more
How do I become like Ruan Jia and Iain McCaig?

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>>2894200

It's legitimate advice. There comes a point where it is actually counter productive to give a pinpoint criticism of someone's work, typically when the entire understanding of the subject is flawed.

A general misunderstanding, a general answer.

>>2894178

People are conditioned to be unproductive and to consume media for hours on end. At the end of the day, WoW preys upon and facilitates that.

>>2894207
>>2894221
I actually have the same mindset

whenever I can't draw something I don't ask for critique because I know what I have to do is work more

that being said, we shouldn't focus on redlines and such, but responding with exercises they can do to get better at their problem, for that is what they are looking for but are not aware of. You might said just pointing out the mistakes with a redline is enough to make them aware on what to work more, but for beginners is not. Instead of telling them to draw more, we should tell them how to draw more

I come on ic for art banter and refs btw

>>2894227
>Instead of telling them to draw more, we should tell them how to draw more
How does someone do this

>>2894195
I'm not really insisting on the 16 hours number here, that is indeed a bit high, I'm just trying to make you understand that there are indeed some people out there who actually have fun when drawing and enjoy doing it for extended periods of time without it ever feeling like work to them. Drawing can be hard and challenging and it can also be relaxing. A pro who spends 8 hours a day drawing at work can still do some lunchtime doodles with his colleages, do a few life drawings while commuting to work and then draw some relaxing personal work at home.

Have you seriously never had the urge to just draw for fun? Take out your sketchbook and just sketch shit without any stress or expectation? Why is it so impossible for you to believe that there are people out there who do this quite a lot during the day?

>>2894244
>Have you seriously never had the urge to just draw for fun? Take out your sketchbook and just sketch shit without any stress or expectation?

No, because I am not that good yet. For drawing to be fun you have to be good.

>>2894259
>For drawing to be fun you have to be good.
>tfw this mindset will kill you

>>2894261
I mean some people can have fun with shitty drawings, sure, for me it doesn't work like that. When I see shit, I feel worse because that's not what I want to be. It's pretty simple.

Also people who say that having fun is the most important thing about drawing are those who make no progress and wont make it.

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>>2894244
>drawing for fun
But then I won't make it.

>>2894265
>Also people who say that having fun is the most important thing about drawing are those who make no progress and wont make it.
>tfw both these mindsets are dangerous
Those who have fun are truly the ones who make it anon. Don't fall for the memes.

>>2894270
Sure thing.

>loomis??
>haha i ve heard of him but i draw for fun so dont talk about him :p

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>>2894229
to draw more you need to see results

but a common mistake in beginners (which i had for over a decade so I would burn out very and show no progress) is not doing the right type of exercises for their art goal and so taking no progress out of their effort

art goals usually fall in 2 big categories, academic art (portraits, scenery, etc) and imagination art (character design, backgrounds etc). some knowledge are interchangeable between the 2, but generally, doing exercises for one will not give you results in the other

before photos and movies, there was a big demand for recording correctly (or in a certain way/style) visual stuff, so academic art was in full force. But after the general need for those was met by photos and movies, art turned to recording internal stuff, as emotions, ideas etc.

And so, in our current time, academic art is replaced by abstract art, which has no foundation and gives a bad name to art. Old academic art still has value because of the historical factor, and contemporary academic art has some little value because of the skill factor and the long history of the craft.

And then there is imagination art, the current art trend which is raising to fill a gap, which is art meant to record emotions, ideas just like abstract art, but while using fundamentals, just like academic art. The problem is that the exercises for training the fundamentals in imagination art, are a little different from the exercises for training for fundamentals in academic art. And because of the long history of the academic one, a lot of beginners which want to do imagination art (without being aware there is a difference) start by doing exercises for the academic art and so seeing no outcome for their effort and burning out right at the beginning.

We all know how to train for the fundamentals in academic art, and the fundamentals in abstract art is ass kissing. Do you want me to (possibly) writhe another wall on how to train for imagination art?

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>>2894265
>Also people who say that having fun is the most important thing about drawing are those who make no progress and wont make it.

Yeah, well the kind of person who loathes not being good enough and expects that there is some magical point where you start to enjoy the process, and lament the distance between themselves and their lofty goals - all those people end up and stay here.

The kind of people who make it a career legitimately enjoy the process of working and improving. It's because they understand the pain to be their drive rather than their burden. That doesn't come from getting good, that comes from the stamina battle of working constantly and getting tired of your own bullshit. The earlier that happens, the better.

>>2893202
Anyone know where I can find photo refs of statues like that? Google etc only provides so many photos with shitty ass lighting.

>>2894367
Don't just google "statue" or some generic term. Do some research and find specific sculptors then google their name. You can also go under Tools>Size>Large while searching.

Otherwise I really like Sotheby's. They have great photos and in hi resolution, so search through there for particular artists or you can find auctions for sculpture that will have a variety of artists. If the auction was done like 10 years ago the images might be smaller, but any auctions from the last few years have nice hi res images.

The Metropolitan Museum of Art also has a nice online collection of hi res images.

>>2894300
>there is some magical point where you start to enjoy the process
I hit that point, actually. I hated drawing for two-three years and then started enjoying it.

Why? Cuz my depression got cured.

Feel like shit? Focus on your eating/sleeping/exercise habits first. And social habits. Complement with meds if you need to.

>The kind of people who make it a career legitimately enjoy the process of working and improving.
This is the truth.

>>2894372
>social habits
Like what? Does this mean getting friends?

>>2894374
It means getting out of your room and doing things, ideally with friends. Friends online don't count towards this since it's not in person.

>>2894379
Doing what kind of things?
???
Do you think I know? I don't go out.

>>2894380
Depends on your interests. It could mean going to museums, going shopping, hanging out at a pub with friends, playing in a recreational sports league, going to the movies or a play or concerts, walking in a local park etc.

Just think of normie activities and do the ones that might actually appeal to you. Humans are social animals and being around other people is good for mental health, and so is changing day-to-day activities to break up monotony.

>>2894265
For me, seeing that I've drawn something shit is invigorating because I start thinking about how to fix the problem.

Art is just problem solving, and a certain amount of problem solving is killing off bad ideas. If I think I've drawn something good, it's scary because it only means I don't know what I did wrong. I can be certain that I did something "wrong" because art has no skill ceiling. Like being photographically perfect isn't even a ceiling because there's also expression etc.

I'm one of those guys who can work for 16 hours a day because the conflict of learning is super exciting to me. And it feels a lot like a video game.
But I do get burned out. Like I can spend a week drawing non stop like that, and then two weeks doing fucking nothing. I feel like I'd make better progress if I just worked a few hours a day every day. I don't have a strong work ethic, just an abnormally long attention span. Or abnormal among people my age anyway.
It's good for deadlines tho cause I can work 30 hours on a project in one sitting.

>>2894200
How would you give advice to someone that has difficulty viewing a stereoscopic sidebyside image? All you can really do is say "cross your eyes and focus on the 3rd image that creates", if someone is doing a study and its not accurate... well, the answers right fucking there infront of them? Each individual has to learn to see for themselves first.

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>>2893202
all great artists are fueled by praise. Kinda like Jesus or Santa
>get good
>get praise
>feel good
>keep going

>>2895533
>tfw /ic/ is stuck in the get good phase because no one gives them praise so they can't feel good and keep going

>>2893830
your own fucking mentality. Your oo far up your own ass to notice how shit your drawing rly is, so you go around pretending actually good art is "herpa derpa ezy" and come up with every possible cheat known to man and pretend the artist used it so you feel better about your own art. That's what's wrong now that we cleared that up... back to /beg/ with you faggot.

>>2895537
>>tfw /ic/ is stuck in the get good phase because no one gives them praise so they can't feel good and keep going

Can easily be done by using the drawthreads