Art academy

I trained at a fart academy .

>>2794065
you just followed TOOTorials amirite?

>>2793765

Currently a student at an academy that's sponsored by the Art Renewal Center. There are a few of us on /ic/ it seems.

In general there are little to no entrance exams required across these academies. You can pay for either full-time or part-time and from what I've seen they offer all of their courses to both times. The fees are not that bad - ballpark is about $200-$400/mo.

Some academies offer specific things - Angel Academy does a full program on portraiture, Grand Central Atelier follows the Hudson River School landscape painting, et cetera.

The tough part is staying in once you get in because the curriculum is difficult and the demand for you to do as perfect of a job as you can are set from the get-go.

Instructors are very kind and knowledgeable, but it doesn't mean they aren't strict and they will absolutely not let you get away with half-assed work.

If you are the kind of person that can sit down and work on one drawing for 100 hours, or one painting for several months, then you should be fine. The timeline is not an exaggeration.

>>2794083
>If you are the kind of person that can sit down and work on one drawing for 100 hours, or one painting for several months, then you should be fine
How are you supposed to work afterwards?

>>2794086

I assume by this you mean:

>How are you supposed to work as a concept artist on a deadline afterwards?

The academies aren't really catered to any particular exit route. The intent of the rigorous curriculum in terms of quality is to teach you how to draw and paint in oils at a high level. How you use this knowledge and training once you are done is up to you.

If you want to go into fine arts professionally, the schools help guide you to selling your art work, exhibitions in galleries and whatnot.

If you want to go into illustration, design, concept art then you don't need to go into the full mile into it. You can opt out of the higher-level programs and dive into Art Center, FZD, Syn Studio et cetera.

Our academy has students who are exhibiting their work in galleries, current students who are going into concept art, previous students who went off into the game industry to be concept artists, and a few people who do sculpture in addition to being painters.

The way I honestly see it is - you can spend 2-3 years shitposting on /ic/ and other art forums and get nowhere, or you can go to school and get real good real fast. We have single-digit year old kids who wouldn't even recognize the scribbling that's posted on /ic/ as art work.

Feng Zhui advocates formal education over self-teaching for similar reasons.

>>2794111

Feng Zhu*

Just to re-iterate,most of these academies allow you to pay-as-you-go even as a full-time student. Some are not even accredited. Students show up because they want to learn how to draw and paint as best as possible. So in a sense, you choose your own level of involvement.

>>2794111
does your academy only teach sight size, or are there schools that teach a constructive method as well? I'm trying to become a competent comic artist

>>2794122

Good Q.

Most academies to my knowledge teach both sight-size and comparative measurement. Sight-size is considered as training wheels and you're expected after awhile to be able to do very precise sight-size using your eyes only.

Some of them however still only teach sight-size so do ask them!

Constructive methods are almost always employed to some degree. You are sometimes asked to render what is not necessarily in front of you to represent the true form of an object. ie, because just because you can't see a terminator shadow line doesn't mean it isn't there. This is sometimes done to have a better quality of realism to your drawings.

You aren't asked to draw a 3D wireframe of the life model or anything like that, but you are asked to shade your drawing in terms of simpler forms that appear on the body before you break it down further.

Instructors aren't glib and they certainly aren't ignorant - they have backgrounds in commercial illustration, comic books, animation, 3D, et cetera so they employ a lot of different construction and teaching methods.

>>2794146
>You are sometimes asked to render what is not necessarily in front of you to represent the true form of an object

I should re-state this as: You are sometimes asked to render what you may not necessarily see but what is in fact part of the form you're looking at.

There's a lot of playfulness with reflected lights, lost and found edges and values, and other things.

Not to shoot down on general education, but from what I've seen non-academic schools tend to rush students through drawing to get them to be somewhat employable as quickly as possible but it works against the student and it certainly works against their art. You need time to develop your senses and your tastes in addition to just doing the work. Eyes, muscle memory is developed over longer periods of time.

>>2794146
That's really nice, seems like a complete skillset. I always had this feeling that atelier training was always sort of incomplete and only gave you the skillset to work in very strict studio conditions.

>>2794160
Understood. So would you recommend an artist who works primarily with a constructive method to get at least some training in comparative measurement?

Also if you don't mind, could you post something of yours so I can see under what kind of regimen you're working?

>>2794146
Does very precise sight-size just come with time or is there actual something specific you have to know to proceed forward from basic sight-size?

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>>2794162

IMHO I don't think there is any school out there that can necessarily give you a complete, all-around education and prepare you for everything. You're in most schools for 3 years? Sometimes 4?

But I wouldn't classify academies as necessarily "complete" art educations. They are very good at getting you to draw and paint and you start life drawing from the first day.

But in general you aren't asked to draw entire scenes from your imaginations, although of course there are students who do that.

>>2794172
>>2794191

Sure, and I'll use it to explain sight-size measurement. See the exercise photo. This is one of the first things you're asked to do.

You start off with the two red construction lines which indicate where you have to measure from. You have a simple skewer or a knitting needle that you use, but fine adjustments to lines is left up to you. You do horizontal and vertical measurements off of the red lines.

When you do the block-in you transfer your block-in over to nicer paper and you no longer have lines of any sort, you do rendering by eye only.

Life drawings use comparative measurement where you try to fill up your entire 18x24 drawing paper with the model. You choose something on the model like say, from the foot to the knee, as your unit of measurement and you measure everything relative to that unit.

Also included how you're typically asked to sharpen your pencils, charcoals, carbons so you can render without having any speckles or clouds in your drawing.

>>2794172
>Understood. So would you recommend an artist who works primarily with a constructive method to get at least some training in comparative measurement?

It helps although ultimately the more you use your eyes to fill in the location of forms and shapes after you're done with the over all construction.

I'd rather not post life drawings - you can find those on sites like the Angel Academy of Art, Florence Academy of Art, et cetera. They all follow the same curriculum.

>>2794204
>It helps although ultimately the more you use your eyes to fill in the location of forms and shapes after you're done with the over all construction.

The more you use your eyes to fill in the locations etc the faster you get, so you can significantly reduce the time it takes you to draw and render the life model.

>>2794199
>>2794204
Nice! Great work on that Bargue, shit's hard as heck.

I do like 80% of drawing from construction and loose reference (lots of cartooning etc.), but I always try to work at least a little bit of copying in to train the eye with angles etc.

I used the little book "Accuracy: a drawing guide" by Dorian Iten as a learning base. This stuff is so hard that I always wondered if it was even worth bothering to train "on the side". Thanks a lot for the response.

>>2794199
>speckles and clouds
What do you mean by this? Is this common and I just don't notice it when I render with not as sharpened pencils?

>>2794221
I think he probably means touching the canvas with wood which smears the charcoal / graphite around

>>2794216
>This stuff is so hard that I always wondered if it was even worth bothering to train "on the side". Thanks a lot for the response.

I remember spending a good 4-6 hours doing a construction block-in for some of the first drawings but now it's a lot quicker and more precise. We are our own worst critics in some respects. You get better with time.

>I always try to work at least a little bit of copying in to train the eye with angles etc.

Nailing angles by eye is magic and satisfying.

>>Is this common and I just don't notice it when I render with not as sharpened pencils?

If you are using unsharpened pencils then you can see the white surface of paper underneath your shading. You need to get rid of these and you do that by going in and individually filling the speckles.

Clouds are when your values aren't consistent in one region, you have an odd shape that is half or quarter value darker than another because you over-worked it. So you use a kneaded eraser to lift and re-do that area so it matches up.

It seems unimportant and overly detailed but when you have forms in shadows that you want to represent, you really need to nail values correctly, and then pull back certain values to show reflected light.

>>2794233

We don't do this with the bargues copies, only the life model drawings to speed up the process but then we always go back and finely get rid of inconsistencies with charcoal/carbon.

How is your anime program?

>>2794199
Wait, you precisely measure a construction then you do a block in with the construction then you somehow do it without the construction?

>>2794256

Start with the basic construct, measure that out. Then do the block-in of shadows, measure that.

Once you do that, you're no longer using the helper grid. Curvatures and how quickly or slowly to turn forms is all by eye.

>>2794216
>I do like 80% of drawing from construction and loose reference (lots of cartooning etc.), but I always try to work at least a little bit of copying in to train the eye with angles etc.

If you aren't already, do life drawing sessions at a nearby college (or academy even).

Try to find ones that have longer poses so you can get the practice in of doing details and rendering with shadows, and not just a quick 3-5 minute gesture.

The nice thing about the life drawing is that the model is constantly moving around so you can't depend on any strict measurement, but rather just use observation to figure out how and where the shapes and shadows fall and a bit of guesswork along the way.

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>>2794199
>those pencils

These two give a decent overview of the academic approach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd1J4wMijQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijzxRfR5odI

>>2794386
Holy cow, this level of work is insane. I figured these things take a life time to accomplish but a person can already achieve them in just a few years time? And beginning with figures which is like the most difficult subject ever?

>>2794415
Beginning with figures is easier than say a dog because you are wired to know when a human body looks wrong. Doesn't make it easy, but it's not the worst thing in the world.

>le academic meme

No thanks I'll just take a picture.

>>2794415
>And beginning with figures which is like the most difficult subject ever?

Yes and no, you develop a taste and a way of seeing things that it's no longer as difficult as you're used to thinking about it before.

Individual areas like faces, hands, feet still pose issues because the real dilemma there is what to keep and what to throw away.

But that's why you have several life drawing classes each week, to grind through it until it all comes together.

>>2794415
>I figured these things take a life time to accomplish but a person can already achieve them in just a few years time?

What you're seeing is a process that has taken centuries and many generations of artists to experiment, develop and refine into something that can be taught and executed in a reasonable amount of time.

>>2794421
That makes sense, but doesn't /ic/ always badger people on them making anatomy mistakes that weren't noticed?

>>2794437
>you develop a taste and a way of seeing things
This is the first time I've ever heard of this. Could you explain a bit more about what you mean by this?

>Individual areas like faces, hands, feet still pose issues because the real dilemma there is what to keep and what to throw away.
Really, I guess as a /beg/inner I can't tell what's thrown away and what's not because it's all at such a high level. Feels like it's similar to how you don't draw every leaf on a tree when it's at a further distance.

>But that's why you have several life drawing classes each week, to grind through it until it all comes together.
So grinding really does work over doing 2 hours a day?

>>2794452
That's really impressive when you put it like that, but I can't figure how that's possible without having learned it myself. What made such a difference? Hasn't art been taught the same for years? Unless I've been missing something.

OP here, just an FYI >>2794421 isn't my response.

>>2794480
>Could you explain a bit more about what you mean by this?

You want to make parts of the figure that are closer to you come forward and the parts that are farther away from you recede into the background to achieve a higher degree of volume - ie, realism. How exactly you do this and to what degree you do this is up to you. With suggestions from instructors you end up trying various approaches.

>Feels like it's similar to how you don't draw every leaf on a tree when it's at a further distance.

It's more to do with preventing yourself from over-shading something because then you end up making a caricature. Sometimes being subtle is the key. But also knowing where to place and how to shape highlights can make a big difference.

>So grinding really does work over doing 2 hours a day?

These academies, being open to just about anyone, have a lot of older people with full-time jobs going through the curriculum part-time. Their art work is just as good (if not better, really), it just takes them longer than the suggested 2-3 years.

It's good to draw and practice regularly, but as the saying goes 9 women can't make a baby in one month. You develop different physical and mental facilities over a longer period of time.

>Hasn't art been taught the same for years? Unless I've been missing something.

Unfortunately no. It's a very long story, the gist of it is that these academies only started coming back a couple of decades ago. A lot of knowledge has been lost due to rejection of academic training and academic art at the beginning of 20th century.

The old masters that /ic/ likes have been tossed aside as not "worthy" of artistic merit in favor of abstract bullshit. You can read more here:

http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/ArtScam/artscam.php

>>2794492
This is a good tl;dr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc

>>2794492
/ic/ barely likes any old masters. They post meme painters like Sargent or some painter they heard from some famous digital illustrator who does podcasts or something.

>>2794552
/ic/ is always sucking Repin's cock for his Ivan painting. Also Boogerbro seems to be appreciated around here even though he is kinda ghey. /ic/tan also told me he likes Vladslaw Bikini.

>>2794492
That was an interesting read.
>modern art is really a meme
>the jews were at fault yet again
>the loud minority mess up the world as usual

I think /ic/ could take away a lot from reading this. Reading it actually made me feel like I was reading a post on /ic/.

>>2794569
>/ic/ is always sucking Repin's cock for his Ivan painting
Well yeah, rightfully so. Not my favorite but that painting's GOAT

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>>2793765
funny story, i spent 8 whole years at st. petersburg russian academy, left, gave up on art altogether, and now i butcher meat for money

I spit on the institution and anyone foolish enough to seek art education in an academy or atelier of any sort.

There is no right way to learn, go out, do what you want and enjoy it. don't cling to old ways like a baby sow.

it's all in books nowadays. old men here or anywhere only have the wisdom of old men. nothing more, nothing less.

I am grateful for my time there, but it ruined fine art for me.

know the joy in art and cling to it, don't let anyone tell you how to do what you want to do,

have preferences, build character, and a natural appreciation of art.

Don't be a senseless drone. Don't let the love and appreciation of art be taken from you by the dispassionate work of art education. you'll end up chasing fundamental education for the rest of your life. Do what you want and do it well.

Isn't it possible to just self teach this stuff?

>>2794611
what happened bruh? You don't do art at all anymore? What were your original goals? Are you at least happy now?

>>2794619
Okay, tell me what you have to do to be able to do >>2794386
I'll be waiting.

>>2794623
I'm genuinely asking, not dismissing the idea of Ateliers or art academies.

But plenty of super high level artists are self taught so I would assume you can get to that level by yourself too. They probably start you off with Bargue plates which anyone can do by themselves, the hardest part would probably just be training your patience and not rushing through it. Then after a couple months of that you move on to doing casts or busts of whatever you can find, after a couple more months of that I guess you would move on to doing still lives and figures from life. I definitely think that stuff is achievable by yourself, it just might take you longer since you wont have a teacher to guide you.

>>2794631
if you've ever heard an old god-tier artist say "there's no wrong way of doing things" or something similiar it's 100% true. it's just some ways are simply easier and have less headache.

But if you learn all the same stuff in a different way, you still learned all the same stuff. it's just your way might have been harder, redundant, tedious, etc.

>>2794611

Thanks anon for this response. I appreciate the feedback.

IMHO being in an academy does not ruin fine art for me. If anything, I am enamored to be there and to learn as much as I can from the tradition. I've found a different joy there.

>>2794631

A lot of these "super high level artists" do have a background in some formal education, scholarships growing up, et cetera.

It is achievable but a good part of it comes from the environment you're in. Not everyone can focus at home, but they can focus at a school or a workplace and get a lot of things done to get them over hurdles. It's a lot easier to DIY after the hurdle is over.

>>2794569
Yes. Repin is one of meme painters that they heard from some famous digital illustrator.

>>2794623
These aren't that impressive. I suppose if you're just starting out and angry about modern art, so you swing the pendulum and go much too extreme. More extreme than almost all pre-moderns.

What's the point of "waxing Neo-Platonic" if they are for the most part, quite literal in their mimesis? Sure they will use the examples of plaster casts and maybe acknowledge (appreciate is too kind of a term) it's idealism and then copy it exactly. Talking about idealism and then copying models as accurately as they do is contradictory.