/oil/

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Another painting, for good measure

>>2780316
>bristol paper
Pretty sure that's your problem. Uncoated paper is super absorbent. Acrylic gesso is absorbent enough that a painting would need oiling-out, and paper makes gesso look practically hydrophobic.

The sketches I did were on chipboard triple-primed with gesso. And "grounds" basically means a prep layer of primer/size/gesso/etc on top of your "support" canvas/board/etc.

I hope wall-primer anon reports back with results soon.

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There's a lot of paintings posted that lean more towards direct and thick paint that highlight the brush strokes a lot, so here is something to represent the layered method.

>>2780576
Yeah I could tell the bristol was doing a lot of absorbing, but I wasn't sure that was responsible for the appearance of my surface.
I'll do some more practice on primed surfaces, thanks anon. I really appreciate your input.

Has anyone tried oils over synthetic papers like Yupo? I know a lot of people use them for watercolor, but I'm wondering if I can seal/and or gesso the thing to keep the paint from sliding around.

>>2780597
>in this moment, I am euphoric

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I posted the dead thread
Here is my latest still life

Also, thought you might be interested in this artist I only heard about today,
http://www.robertoferri.net/index.html

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Spent the whole day plain vidya games and not painting. I dunno if I'm gonna make it.

How much training can I expect it to take to transition from digital to oil and be able to achieve as good results?

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>>2781751
You need some inspiration. Do you sell any of your works? If so, where?

>>2781763
No, I don't have any works to sell yet. The grey bowl/egg/cylinder is my only paintingso far other than a few test patterns. Once I'm through a cast painting or three I'm gonna do some painterly still lifes and see if I can sell 'em to a local gallery or something. Gotta wait six months to varnish 'em though, so best-case scenario I sell my first painting next december/january '18.

>>2781962
>Gotta wait six months to varnish 'em though, so best-case scenario I sell my first painting next december/january '18.
I don't think the final varnish should be your concern if you want to put it in a gallery. If you don't have access to Gamvar you can at least add a retouching varnish after it's touch-dry. Or you could just not give a fuck and do it sloppily after two months like Mark Carder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IigHWFv-C_w

>>2781761
There's not really a solid answer for this. Learning how to oil paint is an on-going process, and with many different ways of doing; some of which take more time and more study to execute than others. We also don't know your level of drawing or anything with digital, which also has many different ways of being done.

How to paint landscapes and nature? This shit is killing me and I simply can't pick up colors.

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I've been trying to get better with oil for the past year and a half. Im starting to feel like i dont entirely suck.

This was done wet on wet on a 14x14 canvas. The paint is gamblin 1980. I didn't add anything to it except linseed oil. I mostly used Filbert synthetic Sable hair brushes. The light is over saturated because I wanted to see what the paint could do in terms of chroma. Never used the 1980 series before and I'm pretty happy with it.

Roast me breh's.

>>2783384
What kind of style are you going for with your landscapes?

I found it helpful to study Monet because his brush work is so easy to see compared to other landscape painters. It gave me a great idea of how to model the form of natural elements without relying on detail to tell the story. Color is still an outright bitch though.

>>2783646
DUDE WEED LMAO

I'm pretty impressed that it was done wet in wet, especially since it looks so controlled. Your technique is nice, the care you took shows- it's just not the most visually compelling painting. Not that still lifes are the most exciting things, usually, but imagining this hanging inn a gallery, I'd find it pretty walk-right-by-able

>>2784403
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the subject is not too compelling. I got home with my new paint and just grabbed the first thing off my shelf to try it out on lol.

I'm glad you think my technique has some uniformity to it though. If I was to paint the same subject again, what would you do to make the composition more compelling? I was thinking it might be interesting to paint it with a candle as the light source, which would take down the over the top color, but I feel like it would need something else.

Can someone seriously use dumb terms for me to understand the fat over lean method of oil painting?

What makes the paint lean or fat? Why is it crucial to put fat over lean? Are there other methods to oil painting?

>>2786179
Lean is less oil, fat is max oil.
Or lean is less pigment and fat is all the pigment.

Basically lean is thin layers, most likely diluted with thinner or linseed, and fat is straight from the tube with meaty, almost impasto, brushstrokes.

The idea is that your under painting is so thin, you can't scrape it with a palette knife, and fat is when you almost sculpt with paint.

You can tone down fatness or leanness as much as you want,bute the important parts is to keep fat over lean, so it dries properly.

I do not recommend to thin out your paint too much, it'll make everything transparent, almost watercolor like, and Sargent said to paint with a lot of paint, so you can push it around.

>>2786179
Okay:
fat>"neutral">lean
only Oil added>tube paint*>only solvent added

tube paint is pigment suspended in *just* enough oil to make it workable. I.E. it's spreadable and there's enough film when it dries to keep pigment from falling off the surface.

Solvent breaks down oil, creating a thinner, more brittle film when dry. Solvent dries very very fast relative to oil

Adding oil makes a harder, thicker film, but it dries really slow. there's also a greater volume of material/moisture lost to the drying process, so it changes shape. Even when it's dry to the touch, there's stuff below the surface drying & changing shape for months.

If you put down a layer of oil (fat), let it dry to the touch, then put a lean layer down, the lean layer will dry real fast, then crumple and crack as the layer below continues to dry and change shape

*high-quality tube paint

Best I could do without understanding oxidation too much. Experts r8 pls

Anyone have recommendations for best replication of oil in Corel Painter or CS6?

I heard and have seen some really nice stuff done in Corel Painter that does a pretty good job at mimicking it. The blender bristle brush on Painter seems to be the best brush I've found, but I'm curious if anyone has found the best settings for blending/etc


Aaron Griffin uses Photoshop but he gets these super nice oil like effects

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>>2784616
I recommend pic related for questions like this.

To make it short, the composition could be improved, there's a lot of empty space to the left, light has no continuous flow, shadows are non-existent, there's no underlying color strategy and value range could definitely be improved.

Turn off all the lights, leave one spotlight, get a viewfinder (cut it out of some printer paper) and just look through it.

Make composition sketches with charcoal, this will help too.

Also, [spoiler]DUDE WEED LMAO[/spoiler]

>>2786179
More oil = fatter, slower drying; less oil = leaner, faster drying.

Fat over lean essentially means that when you paint in layers each subsequent layer should dry slower than the layers underneath. This is done to prevent your top layers from cracking in a situation where you'd have paint that is still wet and shifting below a layer of dry stiff paint.

You can achieve this with more solvent and less oil in the bottom layers, and more oil and less solvent in the top layers, a combination of fast and slow drying mediums, by painting thinly in the bottom layers and gradually thicker as you go on, or waiting until the paint is completely dry (not just touch-dry or tacky) before you paint on top of it.

If you're painting alla prima and all your paint is wet and getting mixed in anyway you could disregard fat over lean entirely.

>>2786241
These give a nice texture:
http://andantonius.deviantart.com/art/Digital-Oil-Brushes-Free-Download-597379459

Combine it with mixer brush tool for wet paint effect.

I'd love to provide any good examples, but digital is just not willing to work with me, while traditional is pretty straightforward.

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>>2786241
Also, corel painter is a meme software that crashes so much, it's not worth using.

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Also, if anyone has any resources talking about seeing color, i'd be grateful. Everything seems greyish and muted to me, can't seem to catch nuances in halftones or even blow out saturation on existing colors, like picrelated.

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criticize me.
just starting out with oil.

>>2786262
go look actual saturated things like sunset or just push the saturation even if the object itself is muted.

>>2786262
just sort of guess, and if you arent using black it will look better.

>>2786262
>Everything seems greyish and muted to me
That's because most things in nature are greyish and muted. It's all about seeing the relationships between them and establishing a good value structure, you can get away with a lot in color if your values are mostly correct.

>>2786271
Not actually a critique, but I'd say that's pretty dang good for someone just starting out in oils! Really good color use, reminds me of a slightly less bold Lucian Freud. Keep painting.

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Please critique.

>>2786250
Oh man these are awesome thanks. Yeah I've done a couple of oils and its probably my favorite traditional medium in my limited experience, feels very intuitive, but cleaning brushes and equipment/oils is expensive as hell.


>>2786253
Really? I've never had it crash.

>>2786341
overall value composition is really poor. Try doing a ton of little thumbnails arranging interesting black and white shapes, then do it with black, white and 50% grey (3 value). Then try with a 4 value system. Look up master paintings and do thumbnails of their overall simplified value arrangements.

>>2786243
Thanks. I'll definitely check this out

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>>2786271
Looks great it's just ugly subject matter.

Not that I don't appreciate painting a fat person. It's a different skill than painting a hyper muscular figure.

It's so good I feel like I can smell that hair diaper from here.

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did a 2 hour direct-obsv sketch to try and get more comfortable with my brush. Shoulda spent more attention on accurate proportion & value. Anyway, what else should I do better?

>>2786271
How big/ how many hours in that? Also, how many brushes do you use?

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>>2788551
Pic is pretty close to my view of the subject. I'll be posting in
>>2783613
before I know it!


Right?

C'mon, right?

>>2788551
Values are muddy (No unadulterated blacks or white)
Hat is flat and misshapen
You added beard that is not on the subject
Cheek/neck shadowing is all wrong
Shoulders are not wide enough
Arm has fewer planes than the subject
Hands were scribbled in
Barrel is crooked and also scribbled in
Legs are more squamous than those of the subject
Foot is too deep
The entire body is too upright, the subject displays a clear bowing at the waist.

I could go on, but those are the most glaring errors.

Try harder.

>>2788912
Since you will probably get upset and ask me for techniques to improve, check out this link on how to draw using proportional envelopes.

http://www.davinciinitiative.org/uploads/3/8/6/4/3864305/drawing_with_envelopes.pdf

In addition to using proportional envelopes, you should start your drawings with gesture lines.

>>2786794
Post work.

>>2788914
>probably get upset
Nah m8 I been around for years, that's pretty much what I post here for. Thanks for the link

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>>2788915
See
>>2788551

Also the bowls & black/white portrait sketch last thread. I'm shit-tier with oil though since I just started, here's a charcoal so you know I'm not talking *completely* out of my ass.

>>2788952
Your charcoal drawing shows the same type of shading errors as your oil painting, you just had better control over the charcoal. I come from a place where there is a lot of Lincoln art and I can tell you these proportions are not accurate.

>>2788552
You can't even make the barrel properly, and it's just a vase-like object, we're not even going into rendering.

>>2789040
>same type of shading errors
Can you describe them a little more systematically so I can identify them myself more easily?

As for proportions on Lincoln, it's after saint-gaudens, I'm happy enough with those, though I agree about the values. I still stand behind
>>2786794

>>2789074
I had hoped others would pick up on the sardonic intent of that post.

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>>2783646
Interesting subject matter.
I like the shadowing in the cloth. I have the same problem with my fabric being too flat looking after I paint it. This is a 40 x 30 piece I did in the style of Pieter Clauesz

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>>2789672
I modeled the cloth after this towel that I set up on my washing machine. Lots more work to do.

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>>2780597
The layered approach?
I assume you are referring to the flemish technique. That is the technique that was in use in the 1500's and earlier.
It is also called the 7 layer painting. I need to try it sometime.
The steps are:
1). drawing in burnt umber
2). The dead layer in white and gray to get the highlights. You end up with a monochrome picture.
3). start of the underpainting of color layers. This is where you would add the strong reflection cast on adjacient objects. Green underpainting in the areas the bone is closest to the flesh.
Then glazes and thin washes to add coloring and highlighting.
Nobody who painted using the Flemish technique wrote down their steps. Their methodology was lost to time, and people went back to try and recreate their methods.

This picture shows the dead layer and the eye has had washes and color applied. The way to study their approach is to find pieces that are unfinished.

>>2789680
The Flemish method is one type of historically used layered technique -- it's not the only approach, and I'm not confident that the revived Flemish method of seven layers is close to how it was practiced, at least generally. In particular I'm not certain if the Flemish employed the gray finished layer unless for certain cases. I also do not see examples of unfinished paintings like in the attached example you show, where color is brought up from an area from which its expanse is broadened outward until the entire surface of a form is covered. Matching tone and color to be applied to a small specific spot, repeated until completion, seems to arise from influence of photography.

The layers on top need not be wash-like, and for safest practice, it's best not to have the surface too glossy for further application.

But to answer your question at last, I didn't have the Flemish method in mind. It's difficult to give an exact name to a general method because although there are some principles which they share, the steps are not always the same for different artists even of the same time and region. The color or tone of the under painting, the level to which it is brought to completion in design, the solidity, etc varies, and that's speaking of the flesh alone. It's a complete system that goes beyond just painting flesh.

In principle the layered method keeps in account that applied over a tone left to dry, a darker transparent color shows warmth and a lighter transparent color shows coolness.

>>2789619
Another person. There is no flow the strokes of your tones. It's as if you're just trying to match the tone by whatever means. A set of strokes next to another set of strokes of different direction creates a harsh edge especially if they not allowed to overlap in part. Besides they show rack of disciprine. You often go beyond the form edge carelessly. Almost like an infant scribbling a coloring book. There's no apparent thought when examined, whether something should be soft or hard, or how to vary the strokes for that purpose.

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>>2789619
>Posts garbage painting
>Claims it as humor when it's torn apart

>>2790108
Wow man you really got me. Should throw in the towel?

>>2790019
>seems to arise from influence of photography.

I've noticed this trend as well. Photography has really done a number on the general student's understanding of the lofty intentions of representational art. I wonder if anyone has realized a complete analysis of this phenomenon on paper somewhere.

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I fooled around on an oil primed ground and really liked the smoothness relative to acrylic.

What would you reccommend as the most economical way to use oil primed grounds? The highest quality? Best overlap?

Also; what kind of brushes do you reckon the post impressionists like Sargent or Beaux used?

>>2786262

Most of your colors should be muted with small bits of color here and there.
Also, depending on the quality of your paints it may be impossible for you to get certain colors. Do you have a warm yellow? A cool yellow? Are they true, or hue(mixes instead of pure color) colors? The ones with hue at the end of the name will get duller quicker as they already have multiple pigments in them.

Sometimes it helps when you're looking at an image digitally to take the eyedropper tool and examine the range of colors and tones that are in it.

Gurney's book on color and light is most helpful with this, especially since he primarily works in oils.

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>>2794375
>Gurney's book on color and light is most helpful with this, especially since he primarily works in oils.
But anon, it's fucking trash.

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In progress
oil on hardboard

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Someone teach me about varnishing. I just want a satin/semi-gloss coat that will even it out, and there's so many damn options. And having to wait 6 months because of drying time is rough

So can someone tell a beginner why you shouldn't use the paint thinner that looks like milk? It's all I've got.

>>2796491
Just use a retouch varnish and then add the final varnish when it's ready. Gamvar can be applied after the painting is touch-dry but it's really glossy.
As for what to get, any inexpensive synthetic varnish like W&N's. For a semi-gloss finish it's probably better that you mix your own from gloss and matte, that way you can tune it to however you like.

>>2796496
Don't know what you're talking about, but the answer probably is that the paint thinner will slowly kill you

>>2794974
aside from the fact that he looks like a corpse, this looks pretty nice.

>>2796605
This IS the oilpaint thread, right?

I'm talking about paint thinner, to clean brushes and thin down your paints with. There are several kinds of thinners, I only happen to have a regular thinner handy, not the "artist" thinner that's odorless and clear. This is just regular thinner that's milky in color and probably shouldn't be used in a closed room without proper ventilation.

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Painted my dead dog rip

>>2780571
I keep thinking this is Bernard from Westworld until I click the thumbnail

>>2796627
The odorless thinners are also bad for the health and you should have ventilation with them.

"Regular thinner" doesn't really mean anything because as you said, there are several kinds of thinners. No labels?

>>2796721
I thought it looked like Arnold

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please rate my balls

>>2796741
It's this.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Klean-Strip-Paint-Thinner-1-gal/44432669

>>2796630
sorry about your dog.

>>2796630
Your dog will be happy as fuck at that great painting you made...

>>2796791
me.
>>2796829
this.

>>2788551
its abit larger than A4 and took me about 18~ hours of solid work. I spent longer on it, but that was probably the amount of time I actually spent painting. probably spent another 5-6 talking shit to classmates.

and I like to use a variety of filberts, working large to small as the painting progresses.

>>2796767
I'm trying to learn how to use the brushes and mix values in color please crit

>>2796767
7 or 8. they don't look like balls of those colors, they look like white balls seen through a gel. Paint balls as if they actually have those local colors. Then move on to multicolor/colorfrom life.

>>2796978
good call thank you! any tips on how to achieve that effect? I think I understand what you mean (that I have painted a white ball seen through a colored lens) but how can I do(painting a red ball seen with the naked eye)?? I feel like this is really important to me understanding how to mix colors for paintings in the long run.

>>2796756
>Arnold

This doesn't mean anything to me

>>2797016
There's no better way than to buy some wooden balls and paint them yourself. No need to try to invent lighting and color.

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>>2783646
>>2789672
Getting the right texture to the cloth can be very difficult. White cloth can be deceptively difficult unless the light is tightly controlled. I think your work is suffering from the same issues in the painting I posted above. You need to focus on lighting and composition. Your understanding of shape and color of the individual items is not bad. I can tell what the objects in the painting are and their relationship to other items in the painting.

Where this painting does not work is the composition. If you look at Claesz' work, there is an overall angle, direction, or shape to the image. You painted the objects as individual items and not as a unified composition. This (I assume) threw off your overall composition and contributed to some items looking more flat or round than others. Take the vase in the top right and the fruit bowl for example. Raise the surface, or lower your perspective.

Next is the lighting. Not too bad to be honest. There is a long tradition of impressionistic art that is oversaturated by light. the majority of the problem has to do with composition once again. the shadows look just as disjointed as the rest of the items, which gives the painting a kind of patchwork feel.I do like how you were able to bring color into the shadows to reinforce the liveliness of the objects. If you were copying the technique of early to mid century impressionists then I wouldn't have much to say on this, but since you are attempting to copy the style of Claesz then you need to tone your light way down. Same problem I had. One counterintuitive technique that is used in classical art is to work in very low light. There is a lot of light in the image I am posting, but the sides and shadows within the painting are almost black. Try to use a studio space with a singular direct light source. I like the direction, but keep practicing. Try using less Items to start too.

>>2789674
One more tip is try a different color cloth. Claesz used mostly a white table cloth, but other colors might be more forgiving to practice with.

>>2797016
Change the background colors and add them to the surface of the ball. As well as colors from other elements on the surroundings.

>>2796779
Pretty much all paint solvents shouldn't be used in an closed environment. I don't know what that thinner actually is, but I do know that the turpentine one can get at the Home Depot is practically the same as the artist variety. If it does what it claims, which is that it leaves no residue upon evaporation, I don't see why it cannot be used for oil paint. That said, if you are unsure, you can look into painting without solvents, unless you need it for staining the ground to rid the canvas of its whiteness.

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One of my first actual acrylic paintings. Yes, I know this is a board for oil painting but i figured its hard to come by a acrylic thread on /ic/. I know the cloth is fucked up in more than just one way, but just give me critique on the painting.

>>2798638
Not board for oil painting...a thread for oil painting.
Goddamnit

>>2798638
What's the canvas size?

No edge control.
No value range.
Boring, stiff subject.
Broken perspective?
Cute white cloth, the rest needs a lot of work.

>>2799028
Thanks for the feedback. You are absolutely correct about the subject being boring. This was something i wanted to do as to get myself into painting. Gotta learn how to create more visually exciting scenes.
The canvas measures 24x32cm.
Ill keep what you said in mind.
Im hoping to move to oil paints, so maybe by then I can paint something worth looking at.

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Acrylics not oill, but I only ever see the oil general. I really phoned in the person and I could have probably stretched the visable flowers further before making them flat. Also what about the distance you observe the painting from? Is that a common thing that happens in painting or should I be planning proportions better so that the painting looks acceptable at a medium range? This painting looks well across the room then as I come close it looks less put together. Is that impressionism in a nutshell or am I just worrying about nothing?

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>>2799383
>Im hoping to move to oil paints, so maybe by then I can paint something worth looking at.
It's not about the worth, but the composition and the value range and how light flows through the painting.
That's a decent canvas size, you should be able to put some more edge control into it even with big brushes.

>>2799503
Ill focus on this

>>2780688

He's pretty dope

>>2786262

We live in a muddy world. The key to color is actually values. The best thing to do when you paint light relations from life is it squint yours eyes, and then paint your values on the canvas as you see them through squinting; its an easy way to compress your values.

Also artists like pic related don't see color that way in real life, they actually take liberties, but it works because the value relations of the highlighted could to the sky to the shadowed clouds to the ground makes sense.

>>2786271

As for the paint aspect, the ugliest part of the painting is the fact you can see the tooth of the canvas everywhere, use more paint. and think about better canvas, priming masonite from homedepot gets the job done too.

It looks like you put a lot of color in the figure that isn't actually there, like the green on her rib cage, or at the least exaggerated it.

I'm currently studying at an atelier, and the overall thing that is holding you back, as with most people is being able to be specific as well as subtle; looking at the slightly darker halftones around her xiphoid process and rib cage, those don't look that sharp in real life probably. being able to handle your medium to make transitions on the form like that is part of having really solid drawing skills, being able to see what shape that value and color is and exactly where its going to be, and judging by the hand and portrait those still have room for improvement.

Pull up your painting next to the aformentioned professional Roberto Ferri to compare.

>>2796767

Try using as much paint as your brush will hold

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I saw this in person (it's much, much more vibrant), and the sky is a perfect gradient of 5 different colors. There is absolutely no trace of brushstrokes. How do I achieve something like this? Soft brush on a smooth oil ground?

>>2799946
>Try using as much paint as your brush will hold

Doesn't that work paint up into the ferrule? In their texts, Speed and Henri both reccommend one keep paint on only the tip-half of the brush. What is the benefit of loading it thoroughly?

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I've fucked around in digital shit for a while and I haven't been making work regularly for quite a fucking while. I'm too obsessed with theoretical shit. Plus taking 21 hours a semester at two art schools and interning at a gallery, I learn a lot but fuck I don't have much time to actually make my own work. I'm ready to get back into things. Anyway, here's an oil painting from a couple years ago, need criticism. It's from life.

>>2801482
well you're pretty fucking good, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'd say you're at a level of technical ability such that when you have the free time to paint something, you'll have no trouble getting it down. How'd you paint that, something like
>observe color
>mix on palette
>Blend as little as possible?

Also, how'd you match colors? did you have to control the lighting much?

Anyway, if you really want criticism, I'd just say that the shadows/table surface are a little too messy/inconsistent. Related, it's as if you painted around things, rather than 'through' and behind them, which causes a 'cutout' look. The carrots especially seem to lack depth when taken in along with the rest of the painting (although taken individually, the form seems more or less correct). There's also some perspective inconsistency, most obvious at the top of the middle tape.

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4'x3' canvas. The assignment was to do three in the style of an artist. I chose Chuck Close.
Wat do u think?

>>2802002
Not even close.

>>2802002
Looks okayish. I think perspective of the head compared to the mask looks weird.

>>2802002
Chuck it in the bin.

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>>2786271
>just starting out with oil

I'm about to drop some serious change on brushes soon. Ideally I'd like to get some big ol' kolinsky sable brushes so I can get ultrasmooth blending on a big scale, but I can't quite afford that. What's the best alternative?

>>2804949
The best alternative is not to spend a bunch of money on ridiculously expensive brushes that are going to be ruined eventually, especially if you can't afford to. Soft synthetics work well enough, so do cheaper natural hairs like mongoose, black sable or blends. It's not watercolor, the kolinsky brushes (especially at a large size) would be a huge waste.

>>2804958
Also there are large mop brushes used specifically for blending and softening, those shouldn't be that expensive. Look at what you have available locally, but badger hair would be a good bet. Fuck, you could probably even use shaving brushes for this depending on how large you work.

>>2804949
Mongoose and mongoose imitations would be my recommendation. I don't know what the situation is with natural mongoose now though. It might be harder to come by. Monarch by W&N is good in all sizes. I don't know what you mean by large-scale, however, as even in large paintings the blending doesn't necessarily or normally occur in large expanse of surface save for areas like sky.. It's hard to give an accurate advice because there are many ways of applying paint and blending.

>>2796613
Maybe that's the intention?

>>2804949

rosemary brushed are pretty dope and nicely priced.

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>>2801482
i told you you were gonna burn out on that retarded meme art. shoulda spent all that time drawing and painting from life.

anyways heres some new stuff

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>>2805114
and this one. patterned fabric feels a lot more like effect than actually applied knowledge. Actually painting every pattern on that piece of cloth is still too intimidating. I'll probably have to do a very detailed study beforehand... maybe tomorrow.

>>2805013
>>2804962
Cast paintings is what I'm going for. Then a still life involving velvet. i want to be able to hide my brushstrokes like I see in Gerome and other's paintings at the museums.

>>2805114
any advice on mixing to the colors you see without wasting a ton of paint? A method for checking if you're right or not?

I really like sight-size as a training method, but that seems to work only for proportion and value.

>>2796630
Very pretty pupper.

>Painting anything other than Hudson River revivalism
Top wew

>>2805139
the only way you'll get better at mixing colors is by drawing. every time you do a drawing add light and shadow to it. don't just do outlines and move on.

>>2805136
Keep in mind most of them were painted in layers. The layers vary from painter to painter as one should expect. I think the modern practice of cast paintings, of laying in the correct tones in the correct shapes isn't accurate to the "academic paintings" much less to pre-modern painting at large. There's a lot of wrong or misleading information out there, and even some that are right are not archival.

Gradations can be created by varying the thickness of the paint over a dried surface that has been colored according to the effect. I don't know if this is the manner Gerome or his contemporaries worked, although it's possible to achieve a smooth gradations without necessarily "blending" as one might think of when presented with the term. In fact you can see a lot of brush strokes when you remove the assumption that the main feature of Gerome's work is that they're smooth. The backgrounds are not simply blended with a soft brush in the backgrounds for example, yet it seems he employed a different method for gradations in the background than for the flesh, and other methods for different materials. They are simply not applied for the purpose of attracting attention to them as other painters do. Unfortunately one has to know what to look for in order to determine how a painter painted in the first place.

>>2801482
fantastic painting, great subject matter

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>>2780571
Does anyone in here have any tips on low prep painting?

I just need to have the bare minimum of equipment readily available so I can make sketches while chilling on my couch. If I need to get 10 different things and an art studio to paint, it's gonna take a while to git gud.

So, what is the bare minimum I need to have laying around my room at any time to make simple sketches in oil?

>>2805156
That won't teach you about colors, even a colorblind person can do that.

You need to read up on different pigments and how they react together, then practice mixing them. Learn how to darken and lighten a color using it's complementary. Learn some color theory. Plenty of books out there.

Have to say I'm very impressed with the quality of painting on this thread. Been hanging around Wetcanvas for years but compared to here the the quality of work there is utter shit.

>>2780571
any good info on indirect painting? also anyone ever try to glaze over charcoal or pencil?

>>2805817
>anyone ever try to glaze over charcoal or pencil?

Seal it first

>>2805841
What medium does this guy use?

>>2805817
I'd advice against graphite or charcoal that's too lose.

Also depends what you mean by glazing.

>>2805475
A sealed and primed surface to paint on, something to use as a palette, and something to clean or maintain your brushes with. You don't need a lot.
For a reasonably portable setup you can use a canvas pad or canvas boards, or even cut sheets of canvas from a roll.
You can get a small handheld wood or acrylic palette, some palette paper, or improvise with whatever surface you want. You can use a tempered glass cutting board, get a sheet of glass cut to size, or even use plastic plates if you're in a pinch.
As for cleaning brushes, you can use soap and water if you're patient, clean with solvent or oil, or avoid cleaning them entirely if you paint often and don't mind dirty brushes. Just put the tip in a slow-drying oil like safflower or poppy and store them horizontally. Then just wipe them clean when you start painting again.

>>2805841
This is my goal. What steps do I take to paint like this? I understand it will take years, I just can't afford to go to an atelier or art school. I do draw from life a lot already.

>>2805973
I mean starting with a drawing and using transparent paint to put in colors.

>>2805980
Thanks for the pointers, bro. I appreciate it a lot!

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>>2799503
That pic puts my still life from yesterday to shame

>>2805114
BRIIIIIIIIAANNNNNNNNNN

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>>2780571
You could just make a thread about oils every once in a while, but no, you feel the need to make it so there's always one up, you autistic, cancerus faggots.

>>2806207
Fuck off. Not everyone creates art in the same way. I paint with oil. I love this thread. It's the only one that has been up discussing oil in particular.

>>2805114
damn bro I'm officially on your jock. I'd love to watch you paint sometime.

>>2806207
WTF why do you hate oils? you know what don't tell me I don't care.. wierdo.

>>2806239
>>2806230
Pls don't feed the troll, guys.

>>2806196
That's still real nice. How long dide you spend on it?
How big is it?

>>2806230
Not an argument for turning it into a general. The fact that there's a limited amount of threads on any given board means that yes, not everyone gets to talk about that one topic that's close to their heart all the time. I paint with acrylics and watercolors a lot, so I participate in a thread when there is one, and if I have something specific I want to talk about I'll make one myself.

Here's what happens when you create a general. People keep making the same thread over and over again. Weeks turn into months, months into years, they form their own little micro-community in it. Traffic is drawn to this thread more and more, and other people pick up the practice of creating their own generals, as the most active threads on the board are always these generals, and they want to create their own "sucessful" threads. This is where tripfaggots come into being, and soon thesyset out on their journey to make the whole board know of their existence, people form cults of love and hate around these personalities and soon discussion devolves into bickering and flamewars.

Generals. Not even once.

>>2806256
how long have you served for?

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>>2806200
ayyyyy the draw threads falling for my bait too hard so ima post here too.
>>2806236
thanks man

really trying to improve my texture in my paintings. painting more subtractively. wiping off paint and repainting spots, keeping what works and painting over what doesnt. id like to do a bigger piece in the fashion of this one but with full figures

>>2806259
reported.

>trolling
>phishing
>bullying

>>2806207
>you autistic, cancerus faggots.

Nothing's more autistic than fucking compooter art.

>>2806262
i posted this painting in the draw thread with the comment "did a painting" and people flipped out. if i can post a painting and it causes a shitstorm at some point its not me thats the problem.

>>2806258
Not that long actually. I was along for the ride that lead to the /v/ /vg/ split and /co/ being taken over by the bronies, so probably since mid 10.

>>2806275
nice, I started late 09.

>>2806259

honestly looks decent. I would enjoy a clean background on your stuff a lot more though. not those many lines all the time.

>>2805114
What palette of colors do you use?

>>2806646
cad yellow, cyan blue, some basic red, prussian blue, burnt umber, titanium white.

>>2805114
I didn't burn out bro, we're very different kinds of artists. You hate thinking, you just want to paint like an impressionist. I'm interested in trying to forecast where the art world is going in the internet age. Those are totally different objectives.

What your doing is guaranteed to have appeal, literally zero risk. But you won't ever make a real career off of it, and by that I mean there's a giant wall both financially and socially.

In what I do there's much more risk, and it requires ass loads of networking, researching, etc. But if I'm successful, I'm going to be in the pockets of some rich jews who can make an actual career.

And if that doesn't work out, I can paint still lifes and landscapes, it's easy to do that. That's all I'm going to say, we've argued for a looong as time before, I remember you.

>>2806246
It's little, 8x6 inch. Abut 1 hour 40 mins
Tanks for the nice words.

>>2806259
I like your landscapes. Post some up here, broski.

>>2806650
Thanks.

Do you make the colors work on the canvas regardless of what they are or do you put a lot of forethought into which ones to use? I notice that Prussian blue is a very strong, intense color, almost like black.

>>2806659
whatever you say. you think the future of art is illustration, i think it's regressive and it will be impressionism again. we'll see who's right in 20 years.

>>2806926
i havent done any new ones recently. a few clunkers but nothing special.
>>2807471
i landed on those colors naturally. I used to just paint with arbitrary colors, but I found I get the best results by not using black, and using complimentary colors without their compliment, while still being primary.

So my main two color schemes are a cool yellow, warm blue, cool red or a warm yellow, cool blue, warm red.

still working out the kinks for what i'd need to use as my shadows but prussian blue and burnt umber are working fine right now.

I'd recommend giving it a try with each of those color schemes. They're very versatile and you can mix some really nice colors with each palette.

As a general rule stay away from abusing earth tones. mix your browns. It'll save you money and you'll get a wider range of browns and grays. For a long time I used "Flesh color" as my skin tones straight from the tube and I never got the range I was looking for.

>>2807513
Cheers dude for all that info.

>>2807513
I doubt mixing earth tones using cadmiums is going to save you much money. Good quality earths are cheap af in comparison, and while I agree that you shouldn't abuse them, yellow ochres are just too convenient. A transparent oxide red or synthetic burnt sienna mixes really nice translucent darks that are hard to replicate with just three primaries, and gives nice washes for your lay-in too. More useful than burnt umber if you don't mind that it doesn't go as dark. For pure blacks you could have some phthalo green to mix with your cool red.

>>2807513
>it will be impressionism again.
can you say more about this, cause I'm gonna be a landscape painter

>>2807790
i know cadmiums are crazy expensive, but they are soooooo good.

>>2807915
just a theory i have that art is regressive as people's lives get better and we will make our way back through the art movements.

I think that as life becomes easier for people and robotics take over the work force people will expect more out of art work over time, and conceptual work won't be in the taste of the general populace who aren't artists.

It wont mean that you can't do conceptual art and illustration, it just won't be the most popular thing like it is now.

the contrarian theory to that would be that art keeps getting more illustrative and conceptual. And all art continues to get simpler and simpler in fine arts, and representational art continues blur the distinction more and more between fine arts and illustration.

>>2796630
Oh man I hate when the dog dies. Sorry anon.

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Fellow oil painters. What are your lit recommendations for improving technique?

>>2807998
>art is regressive as people's lives get better
There is this thing called Foucault's pendulum i think, where trends and ideas swing back and forth between two extremes. The extremes in this case are the old and the new I guess? I would agree with what you're saying, cause the modern art movement has been here for some time and it's starting to stagnate from what I understand. But I also think that in the future there will be more diversity and it'll be hard to pinpoint which "direction" of art is the main one, cause there will be lots of movements in parallel that don't necessarily care about what others are interested in. That's a great thing about the internet, diversity in culture. And I'm not talking about culture in the sense of nationalism here, fuck off with that shit.

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Oil generals are the best threads. Here's a painting I recently finished.

I'm looking to spend some money on my first set of colors. Is the zorn palette a good place to start? Maybe with a viridian added in?

>>2809879

>when u nut bet she keep sucking

>>2810183
I suggest starting with a primary mixing set. red, yellow, blue, white, black. use this to practice mixing colors and matching the colors that you see. If you want you can add a earth tone and a green that.

>>2810183
You can start with black and white then gradually add more colors as you get comfortable. Zorn is a good limited palette for skin tones but not a good overall palette for anything else. For a more versatile limited palette a cooler red would be preferable as well as a cleaner yellow and a dark blue. From then you can add your earth tones like yellow ochre, burnt sienna/umber and whatever other convenience colors you like. In place of viridian I would suggest a (good) student-grade phthalo green, you get a more pigmented and versatile paint at a fraction of the cost.

>>2809879
What a waste. At least do some proper sketches first before you waste Precious paint

>>2810263
Clearly you know more than me about oil painting so please tell me all that's wrong so I can improve instead of spouting out meaningless drivle.

>>2810192
>>2810200
>>2810200
Thanks guys. By any chance, would cyan and magenta be better option than red and blue? Or are there no ideal pigments for such a setup?

Also, as far as color matching, my biggest concern with a limited palette of a red, yellow, blue, white and black is that I wouldn't really be able to 'match' colors, and I'd struggle to ever get anywhere near a lot of them because my gamut would be too small. I could mix away a quarter tube of paint before I realize it's impossible to match a certain color unless I pick up a lead yellow or something special.

I'm really trying to take an academic approach to painting, so "close enough" isn't really good enough. I don't want to settle for "oh yeah that's purple and what I mixed is purple" if they're actually 4 or 5 hues apart. Maybe I just have to pick subjects that are within my gamut? Seems like that might be pretty difficult considering the wide range found in nature. Hopefully this description of my goals/concern for selecting a palette isn't too obtuse.

Does this have a matte varnish on it or something? it seems like big swaths of it are really chalky or something. I've never actually seen a "sunken in" painting, but based on descriptions this is what I'd imagine it looks like.

Often i change technique halfway because idk wtf im doing. Is that a bad thing?

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>>2810313
it sounds like you are torn between a lot of things. If you want to use RGB as your basis for colors you will have a hard time getting realistic colors. CMYK is much more suited to realism.

But if you are looking to incorporate magenta and cyan into your palette it tells me you want a more impressionist palette.

I have much more knowledge in RGB than CMYK so I'll just speak to that color theory.

Remember that colors on RGB are more suited to digital, and the actual colors that that chart translates to in paint aren't labelled as such. "Cyan" would be your blue, "Turquoise" would be your cyan, "Lemon Yellow" would be your yellow and all of this is stuff you'd be able to tell just looking at tubes of paint long enough.

Magenta is a tricky color to incorporate because what they mix best with are green-yellows, and green-blues.

A beginner "realism" palette for RGB would either look like Cadmium Yellow, Cyan, Red or Indian Orange ( or any red orange), Turquoise, and Lemon Yellow. Those have the most range, with the cad yellow palette being closer to realism than the ind. orange one.

Problem is that's an expensive palette. It's not really a beginner one ( Cad yellow is up there in price, and red oranges are tough to find). And if you REALLY want realism you'd be better off with what the other guy suggested and just getting a red, a blue, and a yellow. Magenta and turquoise in a limited palette wouldn't work for a beginner because you wouldn't be able to mix what you are actually looking at.

I provided a chart with some examples of the range of colors you get with the palettes I've experimented with. And I pointed out what a Magenta limited palette might look like, but again those would be difficult to manage for someone just starting out.

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>>2780571
finished this

>>2803577
Kek'd

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>>2806659
How do you even find out what matters in painting nowadays?
I went to an art academy and they told me it was dead anyway.

>>2810313
Even in the best constructed limited palette you are going to have deficiencies in mixing, either from hue or from the chroma of your paints, especially depending on which red and which blue you choose.
A magenta (a cool-leaning red, basically) isn't going to mix saturated warm reds and oranges as well as a typical "fire engine" red like a pyrrole, and a phthalo blue gs (what is normally used as process cyan in the printing industry) is going to mix more saturated blues and greens, but won't mix purples/violets as clean as a warm blue like ultramarine would.
You also need to keep in mind how much more difficult high-chroma, high-tinting paint like the Phthalos can be as primary colors for a beginner, when just a dab of it can be enough to overpower your mixes.

You can start with CMY or any other shade of blue and red. Keep in mind this is ultimately just a stepping stone and you'll eventually be complementing your palette with other colors you need, and dumping some for others you might prefer. It's better to gravitate to colors that best suit your subject matter and techniques than trying to do every single thing with as few colors as possible. For the biggest range in mixing you want to work with split primaries rather limiting yourself to just a single warm or cool-leaning choice for each color.

Your average CMY palette is going to be:
Phthalo Blue Green Shade (PB15:3 or PB15:4 - can substitute for the cooler-leaning PB16 phthalo turquoise but it's not going to be as versatile or as saturated)
Quinacridone magenta PV19 (keep in mind this pigment can go from crimson all the way to violet, so pick your paint well)
And a cool leaning yellow, for which there are a lot of choices. The best is going to be a Cadmium Yellow Light/Pale, with more budget-friendly options like Hansa Yellow Light and Benzimidalone Yellow being (almost) as good for a much smaller price.

>>2810313
>>2810656
Long post, continued

I would recommend at least adding a dark earth tone like a burnt sienna, transparent oxide red or burnt umber, so you can mix your darks with less fiddling around. If you want to paint more portraits than landscapes, an ultramarine deep would be a better and easier-to-work-with choice than the phthalo, and so would a more rose (rather than magenta) shade of quinacridone red.

For his drawmixpaint pallette Mark Carder uses:
Titanium White PW6
Cadmium Yellow Light PY35
Pyrrole Rubine PR264
French Ultramarine PB29
Burnt Umber PBr7

That's a really good starting palette, with adding a black for b&w paintings, and maybe replacing the cadmium with something cheaper. From then you add more high-chroma colors like Phthalo Blue, Phthalo Green and Pyrrole Red/Scarlet.

>>2810467
Great work!

Do you use reference photos or paint from life?

>>2810935
paint from life

>>2810467
Bri, I love it, except for one thing.

>>2811487
what's that?

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Oil on painters paper
From life

>>2811615
Damn son I'm jealous. Is that just white and burnt sienna? How long did it take you? How many/what kind of brushes did you use?

The next time I was going to sit down and paint, I was planning on doing something just like this of a model skull I have, but I'm not super confident in how to approach it (or if I even have an adequate selection of brushes, it's seriously pretty sparse) so your input will be super helpful.

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>>2811642
I use a limited palette (ala carder method) Used all of the colors, mostly white and burnt umber. Yellow, blue and red in that order of quantity used.
I layed down some yellow/touch of red underneath and painted over that base (thought it may add a glow around the edges and center of the comp)
My brushes are utter garbage. My functional ones are a few flats. I use the edges of said brushes for the details

This was my process here:
Sketched out the bone first with a soft pencil
Mixed my main colors for the hi low and midtones
Mixed a few transition between those where I thought were needed (colors in the front and bottom of the bone and background tones)
Blocked in darkest tones (think in terms of shapes large to small)
Worked my way up valuewise
Bounced back and forth trying to balance comp and temp (adding blue to the shadow tones yellow to high tones)

Take this all with a grain of salt; I'm /ic taught and my painting struggle is real brother

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small painting. 11"x14". I used a palette of Anise, Lemon Yellow, Magenta, Burnt Umber, Prussian Blue, and Titanium White. Gonna try the same still life tomorrow and try to fill the canvas a bit more. Also gonna get rid of the Burnt Umber from my palette possibly. I'm relying on it too much. If Im using a green and a magenta I really should be mixing my own browns instead of relying on one out of the tube.

>>2810467
The monotony of the diagonal strokes make this appear like a digitally filtered photograph.

>>2811822
Bowl of fruit No 235.

>>2811533
It feels awkward with the space on the left a bit cramped, and much more free space on the right of the group.

>>2812173
gotta grind the basic things first.
>>2812392
I still have a hard time composing my images. I have to luck into it still. I compose the still life so it's pleasing to the eye but placing it on the canvas where I want to is still a struggle.

>>2805114
Do you sell these?

>>2812458
>but placing it on the canvas where I want to is still a struggle.
Make yourself a viewfinder to help with that. It's great for plein air painting - cut a hole into some thick cardstock in the aspect ratio of your canvas, then if you want to you can take it further and tape some acetate or other transparent surface to it and draw some grids.

>>2812583
alright i made a cardboard viewfinder, put some saran wrap around it and gridded it. hopefully it helps.

>>2812673
should help for framing. are you gridding the canvas as well? if so mark the grid on the side of the canvas and you can use strings to figure out where the grid lines were after they are covered with paint.

>>2812796
>if so mark the grid on the side of the canvas and you can use strings to figure out where the grid lines were after they are covered with paint.
not entirely sure what you meant by this if you have some tutorial that illustrates it that would help.

I gridded the canvas though. I have it gridded as 4 lines that meet in the center. I saw some viewfinders online that had it that way and with squares and thought them meeting at a point would be easier for me

>>2812859
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_SpPf6x9ac

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used a palette of emerald green, turquoise, magenta, prussian blue, painter's grey (burnt umber and prussian blue), and titanium white.

11"x14"

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>>2809879
In terms of drawing, the other Anon was referring to an opportunity in your composition. I am not sure what you are trying to convey with your composition. (Where is the tongue of the horse?)
Since you didn't show the snout of the brown horse we don't know the emotion. He almost looks like he is wondering why the other horse is in the emotional state. Also the brown horse it is difficult to see how there is a realistic drawing. There does not appear to be a proper jaw line toward the back of the neck.
I grabbed this quick picture to illustrate that you had opportunities to convey emotion and meaning through a composition that included input from both horses full facial expressions.
Otherwise you did a good job of rendering the shadows, highlights of the horse skin.

>>2813036
it looks good, but why not try to create a realistic image?

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>>2799491
There are a few issues with the painting.
First the rows look too mechanical. For example the 2nd row on the left is thinner than the third.
Is that a 9 x 12 canvas size? When you paint who is your audience, and where will they stand to view? Once I know that I will decide how far the viewer will observe the piece.
You are not worrying about nothing. When someone will buy your work the will view it up close. If it looks better across the room they may not buy it.
I would say to make sure it is put together well close up. I see impressinism as a well constructed detail painting that uses fewer brush strokes to create a well "drawn" image. You can create a piece that appears to be "out of focus" in some parts. Another observation is The field worker appears to be looking away from the center of the painting and that makes my eyes go off the painting.

>>2813036
Thanks for posting your palette these last few times Bri, pretty helpful.

>>2813508
Who is this Brian people keep talking about on /ic/?

>>2813218

Prolly because he can't....

>>2813554
Post your work

>>2813036
Spaced better on the canvas. Why are you using emerald green though, that's a funny one?!

How scared should i be of linseed soiled rags/ paper towels catching fire spontaneously, and getting sick of fumes if I screw the lid on my container with mineral spirit directly after dipping a brush in it? This is what has me very hesitant in picking up my oils again instead of acrylics.

>>2813686
Don't use turps/mineral spirits.
Pure linseed oil is fine.

>>2813686
>linseed soiled rags/ paper towels catching fire spontaneously
From what I've read, actually pretty concerned, if you have a moderate to significant pile of them. Get a metal trash can with a lid that seals.

>>2813800
I use refined linseed oil as a medium, usually wipe my brushes on paper towels and throw them in a plastic bag, never been any fire or even heat as far as I can tell.

>>2813686
Don't soak your paper towels with oil. Change them often if you are worried.Learn to paint without using much oil. You probably shouldn't be using that much oil to begin with.

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I just bought these utrect chunking bristles. Is that good enough for some sale-worthy work, or should I have invested more in a different brand of bristle? I've got one w&n, but it's splaying after just a sketch or two even though I'm very gentle with it.

Planning on getting w&n eclipse fitch brushes for small/detail work. I'm the guy that wants to render like Gerome (one day). Am I on the right track as far as materials?

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How do you use turps for cleaning brushes? Dab it on the rag and wipe, or pour some in a glass and swish around?

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>>2805383
>I think the modern practice of cast paintings, of laying in the correct tones in the correct shapes isn't accurate to the "academic paintings" much less to pre-modern painting at large. There's a lot of wrong or misleading information out there, and even some that are right are not archival.

I agree completely. However, after doing some cast drawings, my ability to draw in a manner similar to the drawings I've seen by Repin or Sargent greatly increased. While I don't think cast study is they way (I think it was part of a much greater whole) those guys learned, it's definitely very helpful, especially for a novice. Look at pic related, how are the smooth gradations on the cheek and above the brow created? There's no evidence of brushstrokes, I can't imagine they used hog bristle. However, that's practically the only type I hear about.

The forms in the hair all have very soft edges, though the gradation happens much more quickly and I suppose you could fudge this a bit. But clearly this piece involved some sort of blending. I can't find good info/video about how to do it anywhere.

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>>2805383
>Gradations can be created by varying the thickness of the paint over a dried surface that has been colored according to the effect. I don't know if this is the manner Gerome or his contemporaries worked, although it's possible to achieve a smooth gradations without necessarily "blending" as one might think of when presented with the term. In fact you can see a lot of brush strokes when you remove the assumption that the main feature of Gerome's work is that they're smooth.

Again, I agree completely. However, Gerome did achieve smoothness when he wanted to, in order to convey certain materials. Check out the skin and satin/silk in this pic. I'm sure painting it involves mixing-to-color for each stroke to build up cloth form/changing skin complexion, but then it is also blended. I've seen videos of people just wiping a soft brush all over the place, but
A. I can never get that to work, when I try it, paint gets picked up from a dark area and ends up in the middle of a light area and vice-versa
B. I imagine the method of blending employed in these last two images is more deliberate than that anyway.

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>>2816009
>>2816003
Part of me also wonders if that kind of perfect gradation in small details and over large areas, for value transitions both subtle (see the small highlight on the cast brow I mentioned) and dramatic (the hair) is achieved by using some sort of medium, or working on a perfectly smooth oil-primed surface. I've been working on sanded acrylic gesso, so maybe that's my problem?

More Gerome just for thread inspo

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>>2816010
check out this background, it's real smooth but different than the cloth or skin. I suspect this is what you meant when you say he used different methods to achieve different effects. How do you think he did this one?

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damn look here's a Repin with similar attention to intricate detail in perspective as
>>2816010
Did these guys use lenses to copy what they saw? I hope not, I'll be damned if I have to get a lens ground just to paint a fucking picture. Fuck Hockney, Tim and "his Vermeer".

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One more Gerome for now. Do you guys think he did the background by mixing washed out colors, or did he paint then glaze over them, or both?

>>2816013
looks like glazes & scumbling

Does anyone have any experience with dying/toning white gesso?
Any good methods?

>>2816285
you can always just mix acrylic colors into it, but a thin wash of oil paint over white gesso gives you more texture and better color than acrylic mixed gesso. usually if you use acrylics it's very even color across the whole thing, whereas a wash gives you some variation in value naturally.

>>2780571
noob question:

How do I paint on top of a layer of paint? If I paint a blue background and then try to paint white clouds on top, it turns into a bluish blob. Am I seriously supposed to wait a week and let it dry, between every layer?

>>2816455

thick paint on thin paint. Make the ground layer thin and thickly paint over it (use more). Or you can just include the blue on the canvas in your mixing to accommodate it.

>>2816009
As I said, gradation can be achieved using the method I described, and by that I meant smoothness.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/G%C3%A9r%C3%B4me-Black_Bashi-Bazouk-c._1869.jpg

Here is a higher resolution image. You can see that there are small brush strokes, particularly in the lights. In many small parts it truly does seem like the light, barely lighter than the part it is painted on, is applied on the dried surface. For example on the forehead and the ear. There is a subtle yet certain spottiness in the half tones and the dark tones. The lower cheek for example is almost like how the background has been applied, only not as stark. These are things one must know to look for as well as what different types of application looks like in the first place however. It should not surprise me if some of the effects I mentioned can be arrived at wet on wet, especially if one is careful and has the final image in mind. I can actually imagine the strokes and order for that.

The warm outline of the face against the background suggests that the darker tones have been glazed at the final layer, with little to no white added, and this makes minute contact with the background. Again, a painter must know to look for these in the first place.

The ivory is textured throughout, with the lights having more texture by the stroke. The mid tone is not blended with the wet darker parts, but that the light gradually has more thickness. That's only my theory at any rate.

Whether or not the face is painted in layers is for another to decide if they have counter evidence, yet it should at least be agreed that the tassels are painted over dried paint, slightly oiled out.

>>2780571
>Want to try out oil
>3.75 € per tube

Am I looking at the wrong material, or is it really that expensive?

>>2816500
What? That's really cheap unless you're buying really small tubes. Some of the pigments I want to buy costs anywhere from 10-50 dollars each.

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i did more to this. decided on thick impasto going the opposite direction of the regular brushstrokes.

>>2816508
Yes, they were really small tubes.
That's unsustainable, I'll stick with my charcoal and pastel, I guess :(

>>2816585
No. Buy them. You only need a few tubes to start out, and as you get better you learn to waste less paint. Buy large tubes for white. You save more money that way too. You can buy large tubes too, but in the beginning you may need to figure out what colors you even want to stick with, or you may end up with a large tube that you don't even want to use much of.

I have some tubes that are a few years old but still haven't even squeezed out a quarter or less.

>>2816585
Also the more expensive ones I want to buy are not ones that most oil painters normally buy or need. You could get by with earth pigments.

>>2816585
>pastel
Pastel is the most expensive medium, though, considering you need a truckload of them for a realistic range of colors. A single stick of a good soft pastel like Schmincke costs almost as much as a tube of paint, too, which lasts a lot longer.

>>2816615
I know, a decent range of pastel costs about 20-30 €, and it goes pretty fast, but I was under the impression oil also ran out pretty fast too.

>>2783646
looks nice! I'd say interms of image making, the light cloth in the background should be a bit darker, if you do a glaze of burnt umber w/ a little ultramarine blue just on that cloth and avoiding the bong it will really make the foreground come forward.
>>2786271
thats fuckin great I love the green in the shadows and the composition and subject is really strange in a good way. I feel like the only thing this needs is some thicc paint in the highlights and a coat of varnish.
>>2788551
try toning your canvas/paper a mid-tone gray/brown, it really helps for seeing value and blocking shapes in!
>>2805114
new cezanne fuck me up
>>2809879
needs some varnish, and take down those highlights a little, they're all too white! The compositions ok tho

>>2816612
>earth pigments
Are there categories of pigments other than colors?

Like earth, metal, plant, chemical or something?

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>>2816884
Water, Earth, Wind and FIre.

>>2816884
It's a category of inorganic pigments that are found from the ground. They are often clays with iron oxides and have other compounds that are found naturally in the earth. Some even have some percent of organic compounds (decayed plant materials), like umbers.

Minerals are also found in deposits but are ground from things like cinnabar or lapis lazuli (mineral pigments). There are synthetic versions of these as well.

>>2816494
Yeah, that's the fat over lean rule, right? I think my problem is painting too thick. I'll have to make the lean a lot leaner for that to work. Thanks for the tip!

>>2794974
Dfp is this you?

>>2816500
Sounds cheap, are they student paints?

Just bought a 65ml tube of OH Ult Blue for £10 (about $12)

>>2817130
Not necessarily. Fat over lean is for applying over drying paint. It's not a hard and fast rule either, but the discussion on it could be endless..

What you seem to be doing is wet on wet.

requesting mixing acrylics and oil experiences

also
beksinski: how

is it possible to brighten a really muddy color if you are not patient?

>>2817368
Damn, that's fucking cheap. I live in a third world shithole and $12 isn't even enough for a 15ml tube of Rembrandt.

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>>2817623
i got 200 ml tubes for $10+shipping. But I buy series 1 mid-grade paints... not Charvin Super Extra Fine or whatever.

did more to this, added oil over the acrylic.

>>2817975
>bowl of fruit no. 9000

>>2817975
you did a much better job with the brushwork this time brian. i am proud of you.
the ellipses are also getting better.
when people shit on your paintings its not because its just fun, but because its so frustrating how you waste actual potential with laziness and gimmicks.
its still messy, but it looks better than usual

>>2817975

I kind of feel you're getting diminishing returns at this point, it's just the same still life more or less over and over. It's time to add a banana.

>>2817975
the 'fabric' looks like garbage

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>>2818092
i need to get back to painting flowers but i dont have any good vases

i did more to this painting. changed the color palette to Alizarin Crimson, Indian Orange, Cerulean Blue, and Prussian Blue, with a grey and a white. It was just kind of a rainbow before... I also changed the proportions to match the size of her head she was very wide before.

>>2818263
chunbum is still light-years ahead of you.
he shall be the art hero that we all shall remember in the history books.
you will be a coal in the shadow.

>>2818312
chunbum go to bed

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>>2818263
Since you are doing a portrait piece, why are you making her skin tone so warm with the Alizarin Crimson and Indian orange? Here is a palette for skin tones.

>>2818493
lol shit palette

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I was a fool and forgot to oil out the canvas and it was a pain to work, it was so dry.

>>2818263
Proportions of the chest look off.

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I've primed a few board with acrylic "gesso" and after reading up on it it seems Gamblin recommends using PVA size (of it's own production, of course) to size canvases, instead of acrylic.

Anyone tried this? Is there any difference between their PVA size and hardware store construction PVA bucket?

>>2821508
You can seal the surface with PVA sizing or any number of acrylic mediums, it doesn't matter. GAC100 is a good, reliable choice. It doesn't replace the gesso, you still need to prime the surface.

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This looks like the better thread, didn't see it before.

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Could someone convince me about using oil painting over acrylic? I feel very comfortable with acrylic paint but I really like how oil paint looks; should I change? When is acrylic preferable anyway? Is there any advantage to using oil paint?

pic related, one of mine

>>2821519
>>2821508
With gesso you can pretty much work straight on a surface without size (though it won't last forever) as long as there's 2-3 layers.

Pva size is for when you want an oil-based ground, which i hear gives a smoother, better surface to work on.

Pretty sext painting btw.

>>2821521
Also pretty nice, though i think you could render a little more.

>>2821616
Oils are WAY more workable and versatile. Acrylics dry way too fast. If that's your work, it shows that you're very methodical and deliberate in planning and painting (seriously fuck acrylic) and if you've got the money, i'd say you should give it a shot. It makes acrylic seem like a toy.

Also, fwiw, i've heard gallery owners claim that oil is the only serious choice for trying to sell to buyers. Watercolor and acrylic put a $200 cap on your work, unless it's truly amazing, then 4-500

>>2821519
>>2821668
My main question was, should i splurge on the fancy "artist" PVA size or can i buy a bucket in the hardware store and it'll work the same way, except a lot cheaper?

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>>2821616
Acrylics dry a lot faster and won't allow you the same manipulation as oils i think, unless you add sculpting mediums and stuff like that.

Oil dries longer, allows for a handful of effects, looks nice, and protects your pigment.

The medium is secondary though, McGinnis used tempera a lot and it didn't retract from his works.

Try every medium and find what suis you best.

>>2822160
There is an infinite number of PVA glues, they're not all the same. Anything you find in your hardware store isn't going to be pH-neutral, so not archival. If you want a proper alternative, Lineco makes a PVA glue meant for book-binding and restoration, that should be more than adequate. I don't know how the price compares to Gamblin's PVA size, but neither of them should be all that expensive tbqh.
If you want something less expensive, look for a cheaper acrylic polymer medium, it's a much safer bet than latex primers or whatever it is you're looking at.

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What is my problem? Its my second Oilpainting and i love it and hate it at the same time. Do i have to work with more shadow? Buy better oilcolor?

>>2824732
You gotta go back to the beginning and learn to compose value. Your painting has a wild pattern of disorganized darkest-darks and lightest-lights all over the place. It's not the materials, it's you.

>>2824906
Thanks for the critique. So shall I focus on doing a better sketch first? And is pastel chalk legitimate for such a preliminary sketch?

>>2824732
youre getting ahead of yourself. like the other anon said, learn some technique man. and I'll say this. start painting from pictures or life, boring simple things that you can do a few paintings of. youre running before you can walk because its evident you cant mix paint, or make a nice blend on the canvas. muddy.

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>>2824985

Compare pic

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>>2825202
And pic.

Notice in the black and white, you can see it's mostly "dark" area with a connected swoop of "light"? Within the "light" there is a spectrum of lightest to darkest marks. Yet, the darkest mark in the "light" area is significantly lighter than the lightest mark in the "dark" area? This heirarchy and subordination is called value organization, and it is the MOST important factor in getting a painting to read well.

Do away with your colors and paint black and white. Better yet, switch to charcoal for now. Study how various masters manage it.

Further; cameras almost never do this well, even with a ro photographer at the helm. This is partly why you ought not copy photos and only draw from life.

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>>2813204
I knew i had seen the photo Anon used as a ref.
Just gonna post it.

What would you guys say is the best tutorial series / subscription to get into oil? Watts Atelier seems okay but not sure.. NMA seems very rudimentary on the oil videos but could be wrong. I'd love to get a class type situation where I can be taken from heres the colors to buy to lets practice making the value scales to lets do these still lifes to portraits etc.

>>2825659
Havent tried watts, but it seems like it's the only really good one (though expensive).

You're correct, NMA is pretty bare bones when it comes to oil (the color theory bootcamp series is downright bad). The videos by huston are good as a start, however, his painting is very impressionistic and he only focuses on drawing concepts in oil, rather that handling and using oil. Definitely a couple months worth of info there if you're just starting (and depending how much time a week you spend painting). But don't jump into a 6 month sub if you're only interested in oils.

>>2813204
Thanks for the tips, I'll keep that in mind for next time.

>>2825942
>the color theory bootcamp series is downright bad
It won't teach you any theory, but they're good exercises. They're really tough for a beginner but can ultimately help a lot with getting you comfortable with mixing and picking the correct values / establishing a good value relationship.

>>2826006
But he doesn't even mix colors to correctly match the photos he provides. Every time he reveals his "solution" it's a laughably bad painting, especially the color harmony (or lack thereof).

I get it, oil can't replicate a computer screen. But he doesn't even try to tailor the color choice to create the illusion, he just picks colors in the most unspecific, haphazard way. Instead of trying to think in terms of any sort of quantifiable color model, he just goes "oh it's a dark green". then he picks something that falls under the enormous umbrella of "dark green" but is otherwise a far cry from what he's trying to match in terms of hue, value or chroma.

Beginners would do much better to learn to color-match through the Carder method.

>>2825942
>>2825659

Watts is pretty decent. There are not a ton of examples, but enough to keep you going for a bit. It teaches very broadly what different approaches one can take for oil painting which is pretty neat. It does not hold your hand though. You will have to work out whats best for you.

>>2825631
wtf is this horsefighting??

>>2826168
Yes I think so. Its a horrible photo.

I saved it from an Daily Mail article in 2014.

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Re-interpretation from the morning. Bonus points to the one who knows the original. Colors are, sadly, pretty blown out on the photo.

tried to test out the colors from OP and also do some value scales. Value scales are turning out to be a big challenge.

With charoal they're easy because to pick a value i just pick an amount of pressure. I can immediately compare it to the value scale. With the oil, I gotta mix to it, but that's difficult because the value of my mix looks different on the palette. What do?

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>>2828435
Forgot pic

>>2828435
>but that's difficult because the value of my mix looks different on the palette
>put some paint on a brush
>get it to your scale on a canvas
>compare

>>2828435
have the same lighting on your palette as on your canvas and have some greyish neutral tone under your colors so you can actually see them.

>>2829096
Somehow it looks lighter on the brush

>>2829104
Have a mid-grey palette. But even having my palette in a different plane than the canvas seems to have a drastic effect on what I observe.

>>2828435
thats because most painters dont use pure black to paint.

they mix Burnt Umber with Cobalt Blue to create blacks
Add more Burnt Umber for warmer grays and Cobalt Blue for colder grays

>>2830301
p.s. I'm talking about your values vs the ones you are studying. not how different it looks on the palette

>>2830301
Isn't it usually done with ultramarine blue, instead of cobalt blue. But what the hell do I know

>>2830316
Eh I'm using ultramarine+burnt umber for my black. really I wasn't concerned about the study color matching, just the inconsistency of my value scales. Thanks anyway, though

I'm just gonna gesso up another board and do a bunch of them i guess till I've got the hang of mixing to the right value/ doing proper value scales first-try

>>2830320
Maybe you are right.
I remember when my teacher taught me that, I only had a tube of Cobalt Blue (Ultramarine), i never really knew the difference.
I know its one of those two

Reminder that not using black paint is a meme.

>>2830334
>Cobalt Blue (Ultramarine)
Is that like female (male)?

>>2830570
Probably a Cobalt hue made from PB29. Seems kind of pointless, but so is regular Cobalt Blue imho.

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>>2827217

>>2830681
gj

>>2830301

Sargent and Zorn used black.

>>2830790
>>2830354

Yeah, it's fine to use black for black if you know your color theory. But if you're new to mixing, it's easy to fuck things up with black. It's usually better to obtain low valued colors through complementary mixing.

>>2794974
>idolizing him this much

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in progress
please crit

>>2832234
No sense of form. I can't tell what I'm looking at

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>>2780571

Does anyone have suggestions for storing oil paintings that are still drying?

So far the best I've come up with is small shelving that I tape newspaper over so that dust doesn't get in and let the paintings sit there for a while

Also any suggestions for how to scrape/clean off dried oil(oil w/ medium too) off the pallet?

>>2833162
Ideally you'd want something like a rack that lets you store them upright or tilted slightly forward so dust doesn't sit in your still-drying paintings.
As for scraping paint, off your palette, any regular paint scraper works. If it's not bone dry even a palette knife would work, or a rag with a little bit of solvent in it.

How do you sketch your paintings on the canvas? Is there a way to sketch with chalk without having it mix with the oil?

>>2833270

You'd have to seal it after you were done with the sketch. If your painting is on an acrylic primed surface you can just spray on some clearcoat and paint over that no problemo.

No sure what you would do if it was oil primed though, maybe paint on a retouch varnish?

>>2833270
>How do you sketch your paintings on the canvas

literally everything. Charcoal, crayon, pencil or oil itself.

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Okay, I've got a tube of titanium white and a tube of cremnitz white (both MH). An anon in the last thread told me titanium is comparatively inferior to cremnitz in all the ways that matter for painting. However, my cremnitz is super separated. Every time I go to use some, the walnut oil *pours* out before any pigment. I'm kinda concerned it will dry out or something. Any way to mix it while it's still in the tube without compromising or wasting the paint?

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>>2833776
>>2828436
Also, did a couple more value scales today. How'd I do?

One is titanium and the other cremnitz. I'm using chipboard with clear acrylic gesso to paint on, which gives me a toned surface. The cremnitz doesn't seem as opaque or vibrant. Maybe that won't matter so much for portraiture.

Tried blending the titanium scale with a cheap white nylon round. Favorable results, but it really ate up the brush. Maybe i should sand down the gesso.

Wish I had more than a few hours a week to paint.

>>2833776
It won't dry out in the tube, as far as I know even if it becomes oil-starved, because oil requires oxygen to harden. If you have some lead white that does not have as much oil as you'd like as you squeeze it due to the separation, you can add more oil to it with just the knife and it will be fine. Here is what my Rublev (only oil+pigment product like MH I think) pamphlet has to say: Separation of pigment and oil may occur with [product] and is a natural process when stabilizers are not added to prevent this from occurring. If separation occurs squeeze the amount of paint that you will use out of the tube onto plain white paper. Allow the paper to absorb the excess oil, scrape the paint off and transfer it to your painting palette. HINT: Store the tube with the cap side down to force free oil to the tube end."

Also, "separation commonly occurs as the surface tension on the pigment particles reduce over time, resulting in less oil needed to coat each particle. The excess oil naturally expresses and separates Aging can improve the quality of oil paint -- as long as the container is closed..."

Separated oil and pigment is unfortunately a risk with tubed paint that are made without the common additives...

>>2833815
AAA post, answerd my question. Not too worried about separation, just draining all the oil. That storage tip ought to take care of it though.

>>2833874
Give feedback if or when the oil moves to the end of the tube. Somehow it doesn't seem feasible that it will be fixed in a short enough time.

>>2833930
Will do. I'm firmly tapping the cap against a table whenever I walk by my supplies, so that might speed the process.