Is using reference cheating?

Yes. Any stupid faggot can copy from a picture.

The real masters only draw from imagination.

>>2619315
only if you get caught.

Depends on how you're using your reference.

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>>2619315
No, Peter Blake uses tracing paper

>>2619317
This is such a stupid meme

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>>2619333

"are you an artist"

"yeah"

"draw something"

"i-i c-cant.... i h-havent got any references!"

>>2619342

"are you an artist"

"yeah"

"draw something"

"I can only draw human figures"

"show me"

"git nekkid"

>>2619344


>"so you cant really draw then?"

>>2619346
>"I can"

>>2619315
Not really.
Tracing and/or painting over in the other hand...

>>2619342
The few requests I've gotten I do indeed say "yes though I'll need some references" and have had no trouble

>>2619317
Yes, any faggot can copy a picture.
Badly. SO badly you can tell it's copied instead of eyeballed, like a real artist can do. Copying a image isn't wrong, claiming said image you made a copy from another source when said source is someone's unique piece of work is lazy. Unless that art from the other source is copyrighted, it's not illegal.

That's why this shit is a meme to scare off the kiddie artists. Using a ref is fine, just not all the time because you're being a lazy cunt. Learn from the ref, and draw from your mind when you've improved on your studies.

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>>2619315

>>2619317
This is /ic/'s worst meme

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>>2619315

You should rather ask who is being cheated and of what?

If you can't figure the solution to a particular problem and use a photo to find it, you can still learn from it. If you use it mindlessly, you're cheating yourself out of this knowledge, may as well copypaste the pic and paint over it.

If you're already a pro and could figure out the correct answer but just want to go fast, why would it be wrong to use a ref?

> Pic is an example, "borrowing" perspective from a photo and doing a different scenery.

>>2619451
>You should rather ask who is being cheated and of what?

That's easy

Who: Your audience and your fans
What: They are being denied your complete
creative vision

By cheating using reference you deny the viewer to see the work as your own, as you intended it. Rather what they get is something bashed together with very little input from the artist. Reference destroys the artistry and by that demeans the artist.

References are bad and you should feel bad for using them.

>>2619460
So your work loses value if it's based in reality? Does that mean you get worse and worse as an artist the more you build your visual memory? Might as well gouge your fucking eyes out now or you're not gonna make it.

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>>2619315
breathing is cheating.
what, you want to have an advantage over other artists by supplying your brain and muscles with oxygen?

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>>2619460

You are talking about references as if they were photos bashed together without much thoughts put into it. A lot of artists use it to get closer to what they envisionned and modify it as much as needed.

> Pic related

learn how to construct forms from imagination but also relish in the ability to correctly draw from reference.

>>2619460

If you stop using reference your work will eventually get worse. Your bad habits and tendencies will grow over time. I see this so much in a lot of artist that has gotten a certain amount of fame.

>>2619315
You have to learn from somewhere.

>>2619347
>'you can copy'

>>2619469
What makes you think reality is the definitive metric for any work? If visual memory here is used to draw a contradiction, then answer this:

What's the value difference of say an artist like Kim Jung gil and an autistic savant that can draw an entire city after only one glance of a photo? Or how about a painter that was born with out eyes? Or how about an artist who suffered a brain injury and has no short term memory but can paint in vivid detail memories from childhood?

>>2619480
All that cheating.
Wow
Just wow

>>2619557

>painter born without eyes

Yeah there's another word for those anon, shitty painters. You can't paint if you can't see you dumb fuck.

>>2619643
>You can't paint if you can't see you dumb fuck.

Esref Armagan was blind from birth--and yet he could paint semblances of landscapes, objects and people.

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>>2619317
I know it's troll thread but
>The real masters only draw from imagination
That means there is no real masters because even Michelangelo used references.
>>2619693
His paintings are shit. Blind people can't draw.

>>2619480
most of those guys belong in the beginner thread t b h

If anybody could show me how to set an image in my mind to use as a reference when painting I would pay them a lot of money. It has to be to the point to where I can observe this image and get details and colors figured out and drawn in really well.


But I don't think you can really do this unless you're gifted with some kind of extreme imagination or something. Can't tell you how hard i've been working to figure out how to use my mental image as a reference.

>>2619709
He paint things he never saw or could see, while you on the other hand need tons of references to paint shit you see everyday. And your shit still comes out as shit. Why?

>>2619749
You can't draw serious realism without reference. Look for example at Ilya Repin, Sargent etc. Big paintings need models

>>2619749
>unless you're gifted
there's that talent meme again
looks like somebody is
not
going
to
make
it

>>2619778
>He paint things he never saw or could see
He can touch shit you know? He has ears. And don't project your problems please.

>>2619804
You need pics and loomis to paint. And your shit still comes out looking like shit. This guy could paint on a description alone. You need to cheat just to barely get mediocrity, while this guy can do that with less.

>>2619784
you can only make it if you have the spark, ligameme, natural talent and several years of Neuroplasticity baka desu senpai

>>2619820
unless your gifted, of course

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>>2619817
>even more projection
You don't need loomis for this.

>>2619828
But you do

>>2619835
Prove it, pedo.

>>2619837
You know what do

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Just look at this awful painting some talentless fuckwit did. Sure there is immense beauty, superb composition, a high level of understanding of colour and fantastic brush work but I bet his hand eye coordination was shit.

>>2619315

There is no cheating. All that matters is the final product and if it's authentic enough that it isn't theft.

In one word: yes

>>2619837
Flash your spark, Pedro.
Prove us wrong

Not if you actually study the reference and apply it to your art. If you're just copying it, you won't learn shit.

>>2620128
>Not if you actually study the reference and apply it to your art.

But that's using reference too. No one ever said using reference = copying a photo 1 by 1. Studying the photo with the clear purpose to apply it later, or observing the subject in real life, taking photos yourself for research etc, that's all included under "using reference".

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Do whatever, man. It's your art and your rules. If your artwork looks cool in the end no one can bring you down.

posted in the wrong thread
>>2620159

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Imagination stems from reality, only true og painters can draw non-real objects like tesseracts.

References are necessary unless you want to try to have broken shitty anatomy because you never bothered to research how the real thing looks for pride reasons.

You have to understand reality to bend it.

Nothing wrong with references. It helps you build a mental/visual library during the drawing process.

Being a slave to said references, however, is not good and just ends up stifling your imagination. I do think using your own photos is preferable to using copyrighted ones, but not everyone can go out and get pictures of things they want, so you gotta take what you can get, I guess.

>>2620505
>tesseracts aren't real
:^)

>Draw everything from imagination and memory
Bull shit i can't draw my friends's fully rendered portrait from imagination

>>2619317
Seriously how does one makes a painting from their own imagination
if someone could do this, he would be exploding in the art business

So Painting a copy of the given landscape , for a beginner is bad?
Then what's realism?

>>2623735

You have to paint from life and reference to build a visual library before you attempt painting purely from imagination. Even then it's adviceable to also use reference. Being able to draw and paint from imagination is obviously a necessary skill if you want to draw things that doesn't exist like dragons and giant mechas

>>2623743
Now its clear
Is there are any tips on how to paint landscapes from our imagination?