Who is actually giving advice?

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Kill yourself

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO

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>>2432894

>>2432894
Part of "making it" is to being able to tell good and bad advice regardless of its source. You appreciate good advice by experience bad advice. If someone gives you bad advice and you think its good advice, then fucking try to follow the bad advice, fail, and learn from that.

>>2432896
/thread

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"Please spoon feed me only the kind, easy critique that doesn't need any thought done by myself as to whether or not it is useful or relevant to my current work. I am unable to think for myself and I need everyone to hold my hand every step of the way".

>>2432894
Dude it's easy to tell if you read the damn sticky. If it's too far off from what's in there then it's bullshit.

The people giving advice are only half the problem. You've also got a lot of anons here who: ask for advice then give "muh style" excuses, are jelly stuck up know-it-alls with no experience, or are so afraid to fail that they refuse to even try.

No wonder every decent artist here gets driven away. The people giving it are too fucking tired of their bullshit.

>>2432971
This.

Post YOUR work, OP. Let us critique you.

tl;dr "post ur work" thread

Lol no. If you can't handle anonymity, GTFO.

>>2432976

What's easy, is forgetting what it felt like to be a beginner, and how easy it is to get overwhelmed. There's a metric shit tonne of information in the sticky. From my point of view, by the time you understand the material in the sticky well enough to determine whether peoples' advice sticks to it or strays from it, you're well on your way.

Sadly most of the people here looking for advice aren't so developed as that.

I won't deny the existence of the people who feel "muh style" excuses them from learning their fundamentals properly. Frankly, they're not worth talking about. They're a waste of time, space, air and bandwidth.

I can't even begin to imagine the number of hours people must waste after listening to shitty critiques, or shitty advice. It's this inane notion that by sheer virtue of their sucking breath and being able to hold a pencil, their opinions on technique and methodology should be valuable to the world.

A great artist can be a shitty teacher. A mediocre artist can be a remarkably good teacher. But a shitty beginner's going to waste everyone's time, nine times out of ten.

>>2432980
I have no problem posting work when asked I've delivered.

>>2433020
That's true, I've been there too. But there are things you can do to help weed out the bad advice.

>Brush up on your art terminology.
You can tell when someone doesn't know their shit because they will throw words around and make zero sense.

>Read everything you can about drawing from legitimate books
Try to learn from them and only get your critique from /ic/ when your progress slows or you are stumped. When their methods are wildly different, it's probably wrong. Looking through sites like ctrl+paint or newmastersacademy can give you an idea of how people go about learning these things, and in what order.

>Ask questions.
People tend to over-complicate or over-simplify their advice here. If they know their shit and really want to help they will gladly give explainations, examples, proper redlines, and even back up their advice with reference books if needed.

>Practice

>>2433050

That's good advice. For the record, I'm not a beginner (I'm happily employed at a game studio, living comfortably off my art, though by no means a great artist). I'm just concerned about the experiences beginners have here.

Those tips you outlined, frankly, should be included with the sticky, ideally at the top. In bold.

>>2432899
You drew that like a year ago. Post something more recent
I feel like you're cherry picking a lucky image you drew and can't actually draw that well

>>2433056

Nothing wrong with cherrypicking and putting your best foot forward. I did a reverse-image search on it as soon as I saw it though. The rest of their work is pretty solid too.

>>2433055
Let the mod know you guys want to add it to the sticky then.

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Smart beginners lurk.
Lurk the board, read everything. Collect that information in your head. Don't be too worried if this information is wrong or right.
Over time you will develope an understanding for the general art talk and (if you're smart/patient enough) be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

>>2432894
>expecting us to do all this work for you for free

Like others have said, it's your job to discern good from bad advice. Besides, anonymous advice tends to have a broader deviation in quality. People will give much more honest and constructive advice, but also more destructive advice too. Both are more valuable than a "nice" review from someone who just wants you to scratch them back, because the destructive person doesn't want you to succeed, and the constructive critic wants you to get ahead- both serve as boundary indicators of your ability so as to give you not just* an idea of where you are technically, but how people react to your work instinctively. Politeness is dishonest and sets you back. It's up to you to choose which community you want to get your advice from, not ours to change the nature of the way we give it.

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>>2432894

Nice thread idea but it would have been good to add a link of our works just to see how consistent or not each one is.

-Get "keys to drawing" and finish it
-Major Forms > Shapes > Details
-Read "The Art Spirit"
-Doing severals "false starts" is important but I feel people here downplay the importance of learning to finish something, it is also a huge moral boost
-Rendering photostudies as close as possible isn't a waste of time (that said you should not do this all the time), Doing this taught me lots about form and how materials behave differently in the presence of light.
-Try several mediums, some might make you more engaged in the process of drawing and painting than others
-Let your taste push your own works, for ex: Question yourself: Would I download or at least like this piece if it wasn't mine?
-Colors are not that important, Values are.
-Keep at it, just keep at it

I could add some more but those are the most pertinent from the top of my head

>>2433056
Fuck off, Ricky.

>>2432976
To give good critique it's important to realize the intentions of the artist, like is he trying to draw as realistically as possible or something stylized? If they are going for full render or flat illustration? You can't expect everyone to paint or draw the same way. Fundamentals are really just a guide before you can start to be creative. Actually, it's never too early to be creative, otherwise you forget how to. If someone is drawing an orc, are you really going to tell them that the jaw and shoulders are too big? If someone is drawing anime, are you really going to complain about the head size? Because that's just plain pretending to be a retard to troll someone.

>>2433260

Why anyone would have wanted to keep that is beyond me.

Maybe you got as much of a chuckle out of it as I did.

>>2433260
couldn't have said it better

>>2433484
you drew that?

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>>2432894
I have a question to ask of you. Its clear that the vast majority of /ic/ are trying to get good, correct? I know I am. So they are always, constantly breaking down visual information and processing it, dissecting it. It's fair to say most people here do this. we pause movies to study composition, draw muscle groups over figures , practice gesture along side Vilppu. So, because of this, the Knowledge of whats right and wrong often outweighs the Performance of the user. I know a little bit about composition, but not every piece I do is Fantastically composed. MY VISUAL KNOWLEDGE, LIKE THE REST OF /IC/'S USERS, OUTWEIGH MY CURRENT EXPERIENCE. Its naturally how we learn. we take in knowledge, and try our best to replicate it over and over. It's not perfect, because if it was we would all be as good as the old masters simply by studying them and instantly applying it with no effort. But, I digress. So, when I see something that is mishandled, and posted with the anon clearly not knowing the issue, I help even though I may not be able to put into practice the information I know

now hold on... this next point might be shocking to you....

JUST BECAUSE I REFUSE TO SHOW MY ART DOES NOT MEAN MY CRITIQUE IS ANY LESS ACCURATE. THE FACT THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A DICK MEASURING CONTEST TO JUSTIFY YOUR OWN MISTAKES BEING POINTED OUT TO YOU IS

E M B A R A S S I N G

AND THE FACT THAT YOU NEED JUSTIFICATION TO FIX AN ISSUE THAT YOU NEGLECTED AND WILL CONTINUE TO NEGLECT UNDER-MINDS THE TRUE PURPOSE OF THIS BOARD

I have always had no issue taking criticism and using it to my advantage. Even when someone says "it's shit" I can use that, because I know that it is unappealing and I need to examine it to learn why. Never have I gone "he says the anatomy is off.... but I thought I studied that. he must be some sort of lowlife faggot not liking my work. He's probably worse then me, and if it is, my anatomy is perfect." nothing is more toxic then thinking like that

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Best advice: get over the 'who' about critique. You'll know good advice when you hear it. I bet great artists like to blow some steam and shitpost too, we're all fucking human. So are you going to have shitposts that are excusable simply because inoue takehiko is posting and then go on to say that illustrat can't ever say one sensible thing? Then you are the one without a soul and damned within ruts.

Again, you'll know good advice when you see it.

>>2433342
You are not entitled to give advice to anyone.

This is fucking stupid.

A beginner can give perfectly good advice, just how like a master can give downright wrong advice.

You as a person should be able to tell if what they're saying is right or wrong. You don't have to be a good artist to be able to tell.

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>>2433260
>>2433050

this.

If you're on /ic/,you have access to a fuckton of artbooks, written by people who know their shit.
All you need to be doing is studying. Read the books cover-to-cover, do the exercises, actually study, take notes etc.

self-critique is the best critique.

also you're on an anonymous imageboard wtf are you expecting
>here's the secret. This is how you make it, Here you go buddy, you have the spark.
>thesecret.abr

>>2434321
Well... you're entitled to your opinion. But I side more with >>2434318

Plenty of people can be good at drawing and horrible at teaching. Sadly, in a free-for-all kind of environment like the internet when you're an artist not in shadowing/classical training, it's pretty much on you to have the wise eye and the critical mind.

But go ahead and dismiss it as 'shit advice' and see how much I care

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I am personally proud of this, took a little bit, proportions hopefully worked out in the end though

my advice?, stick to a easy schedule for drawing sessions and you will sooner or later get something looking like this piece of mine here.

>>2434327
The only (you) i can give (you) is 'epic simply epic'

>>2433342
I fucking knew you'd post in this thread

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>>2434327
You really managed to be dunning-kreuger about dunning-kreuger.

>>2434317
That's for each one to decide. Moreover, that's the implicit point of this thread.

>>2434336
I almost didn't do it.

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Use Photoshop. You don't need Cintiq, stick to Intuos Pro M. Don't use Lazy Nezumi, practice vanilla. Tweak pressure curves via external "tablet curve tool" program (or whatever it was called). Study perspective A LOT so you can eyeball it easily later on, and can quickly measure when in doubt. Think what you want to do (illustration? concept design?). Find what you like doin within what you chose in previous step (ie concept design and lineart) and focus on that so you become confident and gud. Then expand on other things. All technical skills can be learned via internet. Torrent what you need, get How to draw, How to render and study it. After that all you need is practice and design sence improvement. Don't be affraid to use references, but don't copy them. ie use them to stimulate brain by making a slideshow showing each picture for 3-4 seconds. Analyze designs you like. DON'T GIVE UP, it only gets more fun the better you get even if you're close to break. Compare to the best. Practice, don't get involved in philosopical b/s (don't be that guy who was asking stupid questions to Craig on THU). Understand object as 3D volume, not contour. Fundamentals+ design sence is the skill. Eveything else is just a cherry on top. DRAW OR DIE.

>>2434355
The joke is on you because the chart is wrong. That is *not* what the paper about the Dunning Kruger effect means.

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>>2434317
>>2434336
>The asspain is real.

wew

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>>2434322
> >thesecret.abr

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It's important to draw from direct observation. Find a live model.

>>2434355
>>2434327
>>2434321
>>2434336
These guys are just pissed that they have no access to teachers and are trying to cut down anyone they can

Fuck yeah, stick it to the man! XD

>>2434234

It was around the kr0npr1nz controversy when everyone kept throwing around the phrase "POST YOUR WORK" like monkeys throwing shit at eachother.

Granted, I was the kind of asshole who didn't really care either way and I'd just doodle things while reading everyone's back and forth. Quality or accuracy were clearly not the focus.

I suppose it represents what I thought and currently think about it. It's all just one big dick waving contest - and whoever has the biggest wiener is right about everything.

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>>2432896
/thread

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Don't think. FEEL.

>>2434854
Only applies if you're a dumbass.

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Draw a page of hands from observation everyday
Freehand your measurements, start a line somewhere then try to find out the measurements based on that one line. construction won't teach you to draw, you need to be able to draw accurately without construction before you start incorporating that to make things more accurate ( construction should come after your ability to capture likeness)

Also when you are shading, crosshatch. Represent forms. It's not enough that you know the curves and bumps of your hand once you've learned to measure accurately you need to actually represent that on the page with lines that curve around what you are drawing and teach you the surface of what you are drawing.

Don't draw from photos. Anatomy isn't important. Don't copy photos thinking it'll unlock some hidden knowledge of how the body works, that's how you end up samefacing and drawing the same character your whole career. You should be able to draw whatever or whoever is in front of you. Asian midget or Shaquille O'Neal. So try to only draw from life.

If you want to be a concept artist you need to be able to write. If you can't sit down with a pen and a notebook and have a conversation with yourself you'll never be able to make good concepts. Being able to ask questions and answer questions in a clever way is what it takes to come up with good concepts. You should be able to make yourself laugh. Like literally laugh. Ask a question and be able to come up with an answer that is funny enough to make you laugh out loud.

>>2434922
>giving advice that echos what people advise to you
You have to be one of the biggest shitposters on this board

>>2434933
mmmm no?
>draw hands
people never tell me to do that i'm just smart enough to do it
>write jokes
everyone says thats a waste of time
>learning anatomy from photographs is stupid and doesnt work
everyone on /ic/ thinks thats the only way to learn anatomy and i get shitposted for saying that usually
>learn to measure in your head before you incorporate construction
everyone on /ic/ says construction is more important than the ability to freehand and i get tons of shit for doing my measurements in my head (moreso in the past when i wasnt as good at it) because an eye might be misaligned or a leg might be too long but thats part of learning
>crosshatch
everyone here hates my crosshatching and wants me to stop doing it

you must be new here if your post was honestly what you think. nobody agrees with me, and thats why nobody learns as fast as me

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Don't negotiate with terrorists
Knowing is half the battle

>>2434985
Kek

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>>2434985

>>2432894
>Hearing the wrong advice early on can be pretty damaging to one's progress, especially at a stage where a person cannot discern good from bad
Which is why advice is generally limited to 'LOOMIS' and guiding anons to other specific material by third parties.

The con of anonymity sort of evens itself out in that respect, considering it's much quicker for advisors to reference good teaching material rather than having to take the time to explain the concept in their own words for no personal benefit. And third party content is very easy to confirm the quality of by googling it and seeing what other non-anonymous art communities have to say, whereas beginner anons wouldn't have known what to search for without being made aware of it in the first place.

In any case, you don't have to know anything about art to know that blindly following advice on 4chan probably isn't a good idea, so as far as I'm concerned it's on one's own head if they're led astray and don't take the time to vet the advice against any other sources.
/ic/s strengths are as a place for socialising and for guidance towards resources, which 4chan can provide in a valuably novel way that isn't necessarily found in other communities. It's not a personal mentorship and it doesn't need to be.

Anyone who takes personal advice at face value with no scrutiny is an idiot.

I think I'm the king around here giving bad advice to sabotage you imbeciles. You'll never know what advice you followed from me and that makes it all the more delicious.

>>2435949
>Anyone who takes personal advice at face value with no scrutiny is an idiot.
the typical cop-out in a shit situation

>>2433056
>4chan filename
it's obviously not thDark lol, the dude's a cool guy

>>2434985
upvote

>>2436149
If you think that every critic on this board is actually here to help anons then you either haven't been here very long or you're delusional

>>2436204
That's the point of this whole thread, isn't it. A large portion of people here are full of shit.

>Half of this thread: B-but i dont wanna show my art, people will get i suck too much at art and that my critiques are not any way better
/ic/, /ic/ never changes

why are you guys acting like showing your work is the worst thing ever? its not hard

This is 4chan, here everyone's a fucking expert.

>>2436263
Exactly. Please, everyone, show your work, and be honest. Don't lie

>>2436204
If most of the critiques and advices are shit, then we can close all these threads. It's a waste of time for everyone.

>>2436285
Seems like the logical conclusion. That's it, I guess. Let's close up shop.

I think critique done to a specific piece of work is perfectly fine done anonymously. Usually it just boils down to "this bit here looks wrong" "oh yeah I didn't notice that, thanks"

Advice pertaining how to get better at general - /ic/ tends to be a shit place for that.

>>2436260

That's kind of the thing about critique - you have complete discretion to follow whatever sounds right to you.

Sometimes the most poignant observations can come from a complete normie.

>>2436263
>>2434323
>>2436260
read
>>2434297

and maybe you will understand a little more

Where is the ART in this thread?

>>2436343
>>2436370
Irrelevant meta babbling, someone good at art and no need to hide his art, will be more likely to produce a good critique, the sad truth simply is critiques can be thrown out here cheap and consequencelessly which directly forms the overall quality of them. If we cant adress that problem, it will be like with the sticky without an overdone, years people shit on new people and those looking for direction, til some actually went and made a useful sticky. If you really think that people are here all about helping others you are more delusional than i thought, it often looks more like an outlet for frustated or edgy people, who are more intersted in being "right" than a help.

>>2436413
>who are more intersted in being "right" than a help.

Abso-fucking-lutely hit the nail on the head.

>>2434799
i like your thinking style anon.

>>2436413

>someone good at art and no need to hide his art, will be more likely to produce a good critique

Granted they'll see more mistakes than your average jabroni, you seem to be under the impression that all good artists are good at explaining themselves or good at putting things in a way that the common shitter would understand.

Are the people here any better? Not always, but there are a lot to filter through.

>If you really think that people are here all about helping others you are more delusional than i thought, it often looks more like an outlet for frustated or edgy people, who are more intersted in being "right" than a help.

You are right in more ways than one. A lot of the time you're going to have to fish through shitposting around here to find anyone who is even remotely worth having a conversation with.

But even if most people here are more interested in being right, when they're "right" - they're generally right about something and it's worth looking into.

>>2436452
>you seem to be under the impression that all good artists are good at explaining themselves or good at putting things in a way that the common shitter would understand.
you wrote, i specifically wrote:
>will be more likely to produce a good critique,
>will be more likely
So explain how you come to the conclusion about me without making up stuff from your site and ignoring parts of what i wrote? In the end,what you just did is about what i said before:
>more intersted in being "right" than a help.

>>2436461

>will be more likely

I didn't ignore that, I even said it myself that they would see more mistakes - I was addressing that they not everyone who is good at doing art is necessarily good at explaining themselves.

>>2436481
>I was addressing that they not everyone who is good at doing art is necessarily good at explaining themselves.

They have to be better at explaining themselves than some random asshole on the internet.

>>2436461

Truth be told, it's not even that I disagree with you.

I just think that en masse, the greater volume of critiques you have the more likely it is that you will stumble upon something useful even if most are talking points from naivety. You rarely get this from anywhere else.

>>2436521
There are a few things i dont like about this; bad critiques attract more bad critiques and make people believe this is how it is done, creating even more bad critiques. Also you basically cant know how good some critique are, until you are on a different level and actually see how it is, but then it is most likely to late and you wasted hours or weeks with the wrong idea in mind, because you listened to someone, who didnt even wanted to do cause damage, but simply is on a level where errors are mostly common. It is a bit like watching some obscure conspiracy theories news outlet or their comment section, you hardly would read through all this stuff, trying to filter out the bullshit, just so you can get some information you would have not gotten otherwise, the danger for falling for false stuff on the way is way to high and questions if it is worth to begin with. What i basically want is that people come together, see the fault in the current situation, without just shrugging about it and that we can debate how we could change it for the better. The whole discussion pretty much reminds me, how it was when the new sticky was made, the number of peoples saying that it would lead to nothing and we just should leave it like it was, was astonishing high and contradicting by now you hardyl will find anybody, who want it how it was before. /ic/ is has gotten way better in the teaching art department, but the critque department looks still like in a preconstructional state. We basically need a part in the sticky about how to make good spot on helping critiques.

What you say is that the amount of bad critiques is still on a level where the damage done through them is tolerateable, while i believe we are at a point where we need to change stuff.

>>2436563

>It is a bit like watching some obscure conspiracy theories news outlet or their comment section, you hardly would read through all this stuff, trying to filter out the bullshit, just so you can get some information you would have not gotten otherwise, the danger for falling for false stuff on the way is way to high and questions if it is worth to begin with.

That's the thing with art though, you can experiment and figure things out. That is entirely on you.

Conspiracy theories are typically outside the reach of experimentation.

>We basically need a part in the sticky about how to make good spot on helping critiques.

I couldn't agree more. There should be etiquette.

>>2436576
>There should be etiquette.
Etiquette on 4chan?

>>2436576
>That's the thing with art though, you can experiment and figure things out. That is entirely on you.
Which takes a lot of time and you try to figure things out which could be beyond you at your current level. A lot of things can't be figured out except a few years later, when it is too late.

>>2436598

There must be some discrepancy between how you and I define critique.

I see it as more of a general direction to look towards, taking into account that not all of the information received will be completely accurate or cover the broader scope of the topic.

If someone tells me "Hey, your composition is weird" or "your values are too close", I'll look into it, but I never just take their word for it.

I of course, value a detailed analysis above all else, but that kind of 1 on 1 is a rarity in and of itself.

>>2436579

Isn't what a sticky usually entails?

You wouldn't go to /a/ and request anime recommendations.

Even then, /ic/ is very different from the other boards. This is probably the only place where you could unironically have a tumblr page.

>>2436635
Idk

I snicker a little every time I see someone post their tumblr link

and I have a tumblr myself

>>2436563
What was it like before the sticky, oldtimer?

>>2436621
If you already understand that "your composition is weird" or "your values are too close," then you are already well on your way and whatever you use probably works for you.

But it isn't like that for everyone. People who are lost or new can't judge advice as well as someone who has all the pieces he needs together.

>>2436663
Lots of threads from beginners asking for critique or help, who got shit on, because they didnt know how to basics, while basically no one gave real helpful directions or them having a place (thread) to post their stuff. It was a bit like a circlejerk of clerks, who complained about customers trying to go into a shop through a door, that actually isnt an entry and closed, they would eyeroll all day about those "stupid" customers who always try to go through the wrong door, whitout getting that it simply isnt obvious to new people and instead to complain all day about it, just slap a "no entry" sticker on the door and solve the problem for almost everyone. Also basically everyone below 6/10 was simply shit, there was no further distiguishing or different approaches on what to do next. It is a bit exaggerated but you get the idea.

>>2436701
Sounds like very little has changed desu. And I like your clerk analogy but that gives them too much credit; they were most likely just trolls who couldn't even draw either. And then there are the trolls trolling trolls who gather whatever mspaint sonic/naruto crap they can find in dA and post it here pretending to be the creator.

I'd hate to say it, but /ic/ might actually benefit from poster id if we want to keep the shitposting close to an absolute zero

>>2436669
L O O M I S is the only thing those people need to be told. Everything they need to get started is explained by Loomis.

Detailed critique is for the ones who are past that point.

>>2436726
No. But feel free to kill yourself.

>>2436726

That sounds really impersonal.

art is gay

>>2437066

We know you are but what is art?

>>2434783
HOLY SHIT I HOPE YOU KILL YOURSELF. What the fuck is wrong with you that you recommend something like that when clearly you never so much as look at your model.

>>2437053
Like I said, they don't need personalized advice. 99% of the problems faced by people under a certain level is generic shit every beginner goes through and Loomis addresses all of that.

>>2437354
you are fucking crazy

>>2436149

More like typical copout from the most basic expectations of personal responsibility for your own well being.
If you're really this vulnerable, you should not be on a website famous for tricking people into posting their credit card information, deleting vital computer files, and mixing poisonous chemicals. Try not to click on any 'you're a winner!' popups on your way out.

Speaking as a beginner/intermediate artists who does not offer or request critique here, /ic/ has never been the place for personalised critique. Those who request it are rarely at a level where it will be useful, and those responding are rarely invested enough to offer anything beyond cookie cutter resource recs.

Which is fine, and all that can really be expected on an anonymous site, where every conversation and poster will effectively disappear within days. There's no incentive to be invested in anons' flippant doodles.

It's very one-sided and selfish to place the burden of this issue on advising artists.
If someone who's taking time out of their day to share their hard earned knowledge and offer free critiques is obligated to post their own work as a show of trust, anyone requesting for someone to take time out of their day to share their knowledge and give them a free critiques also needs to prove their dedication as a show of trust, to prove they're not just wasting everyone's time.
But no, sure, the beginners are the victims here. Shame on anyone who wouldn't jump through even more hoops to help them for no reason. Laugh at the artists too chicken to post their work, pity on the poor beginners who won't just take 5 seconds to join a website where they will be held accountable for their doodles and demands.

You're mistaken as to the purpose of this place if you want people to adhere to a constant identity like that - which is necessary for worthwhile critique. If you want that sort of thing, there are plenty of sites with identified posters whose art can be easily seen and whose level of respect as an artist and community member can be readily surmised from various stats. But that's not what 4chan is for, it never will be, and it never should be. If that's all you're here for, you're here for the wrong reasons, and it will not mould to your expectations.

Don't order pasta in a sushi joint.

>>2434582
put your trip back on firez

>>2437433
lol, enjoy your bullshit, you are just self-defeating

>>2437491
I want pasta.

>>2437354

Though Loomis has a lot to offer in terms of the bare essentials, there is no substitute for human interaction.

You don't just absorb information from books, it needs to be applied, it needs to be discussed with others to gain a broader perspective of what the information presents.

We as artists are isolated enough as it is.

>>2437870
> it needs to be discussed with others to gain a broader perspective of what the information presents.

If these midgets "need" that they must be some sort of subhuman idiots and they will never make it.

>>2437387
What the fuck is even controversial about what I said what the hell?

Anyway I'm not the one wasting time repeating the exact same sentences to a thousand noobs who could get the same information from the sticky, if you enjoy doing that more power to you I guess

>>2437985
Have YOU made it?

>>2437996
Years ago and I never needed fucking Loomis explained to me by some internet guy who isn't Loomis. His books are the explanation in itself, I mean why would you even read them if they didn't actually contain the information you need to learn in themselves?

>>2437985

>If these midgets "need" that they must be some sort of subhuman idiots and they will never make it.

Subhuman you say? Shitposting or not, collaboration is our single strongest trait as human beings. Peer review is good practice, faggot.

>>2437985
>midgets
>subhumans
>idiots
>will never make it
that's just you projecting, stop being an angsty teen

>>2437992
I dont' mind generalized advice, but Loomis is useless for a lot of people. It seems to only work for people with certain goals. If you are here with the goal to go to art school and then go pro, then yes, Loomis will be a good start as any other, because you will go through everything anyway. For everyone else your mileage will vary and Loomis will probably be off hard.

Same for the advice about figure drawing; the chain works well for people who want to go to art school and slurp figure drawing up.

>>2437833

Noting stopping you from going to a pasta joint.

>>2438084

Different anon jumping in, but Loomis is what /ic/ offers.
So if Loomis is not what they need, /ic/ is not what they need. Loomis can't magically make himself the impossible 'one size literally fits all' art resource, and neither can /ic/.

>>2438563
Then why's it called /ic/ and not /loomis/?

>>2432913
leave ingres out of this

>>2439024

Another different anon jumping in.

Now that you mention it, I vouch for a thread.

/Loomis/ General, where we have a discussion about his teaching. Kind of like a book/study club.

>>2438011
For those who have advanced to the level where there is something to review.

There is no point in critiquing every stick figure sonic OC.

>>2439116

On a board this slow, there's no way it'd stay active. The beginners thread is probably good enough, or question threads. Those weren't around when I was Loomising, but any time I had questions, people were lousy with answers because it's so ubiquitous here. A dedicated general would probably be superfluous.

>>2439127

You're superfluous.

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I'm still very much a beginner but I'll post my art anyway. Because if I can't showcase my failures, what can I show? It's just going to prevent me from getting feedback and I'm going to be failing for a long time. I need to stop fearing embarrassment just because I'm not up to par.

I just wanna say that like with any hobby, taking care of yourself is important. Make sure to get enough sleep. Make sure to take breaks. And if you're not in a daily regimen of consistently drawing the amount that you want, (For example, 4 hours a day), but want to be in one, you don't have to go from 0 to 100 overnight. Do a little bit first then work your way up to a lot. Replacing bad habits with good ones can take time. And the more extreme the shift the more likely you're going to fall back into what you were doing before.

Also, do draw everyday even if it is just a little. Even if all you can muster is sketching your cat or the cup on your desk. The times where you feel the most down,where you feel "I just want to take a nap" or "I'll draw tomorrow when I feel refreshed and in a good mood" are the ones where you need to kick your own ass the most. You're going to greatly regret all of the time you've wasted doing essentially nothing of value, and putting forth the slightest bit on your off days will give you drive to stay consistent and work hard no matter what. Obviously if you get into some sort of severe accident and just have to be out of the game for a week you have to take time to heal. But having a cold isn't an excuse. Your drawing that day might be worse than other days but you'll be glad you did it.

Also, most importantly, don't play League of Legends.

why his pencil holding hand a penis???? wtf

>>2439188
Luci, right? I really like your sketches.

>>2439196
Ah, Yeahh that's me. Forgot that LAS doesn't exist in a vacuum for a moment. And thank you anon.

>>2439188
>I'm still very much a beginner
no you're not, blog.

>>2439188
How long have you been drawing. Because you're not a beginner.

>>2439201
I feel guilty now because The pic I posted is one of the few things I've put color into for forever. But here, have a mountain of sketches, studies, WIPS and doodles.
http://beginnerforlife.tumblr.com/

>>2439258
This is such a hard question to answer because technically I've been drawing my "entire life", in that I've picked up pencils and crayons or whatever when I was a kid, and drew with a mouse on the computer when I was a preteen up until I was about 15 and got a tablet. But all I've ever done is copy anime and Disney. No studying. I didn't even know what studying was. I've basically been symbol drawing my whole life, just a lot of it. Up until a few months ago I had drawn sporadically, doing a few pictures every few months and going a long time without doing anything. I haven't really studied at all until late 2015.

I feel I'm a beginner because I don't really have a solid grasp of the fundamentals, such as anatomy or perspective. Uap until recently I have only begun to actually study, so I'm new to actively learning. But I could be completely wrong about what being a beginner means.

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1: Read Perspective Made Easy and do all the exercises.
2: Read How to Draw by Scott Robertson and do all the exercises and watch the videos.
3: Read Figure Drawing by Andrew Loomis and do all the exercises.
4: Read Drawing the Head and Hands by Loomis and do all the exercises.
5: Read Force by Michael Mattesi.
6: Read How to Render by Scott Robertson and do all the exercises.
7: Read Color and Light by James Gurney and do all the exercises.

There you go, with 4 hours of focused practice a day (don't check your smartphone every 30 seconds) this training will last a whole year or a bit more. Also you need money to buy the books and a cintiq or intuos pro and ellipse templates etc.

After you complete that just do what you want for a while, explore styles, what you like to paint and such. THEN make a list of the things you are not good at and you want to learn and get to it.

>>2433342

Who is this Firez guy I keep seeing? Is he gud like catbib?

>>2439283
Post your own work, shithead.

>>2439291

NO

But trust me, this really helped me, it simply works.

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>>2439276
You aren't a beginner, my friend. ;^)

>>2438563
If some anons don't want to give critique to beginners or deal with topics outside their comfort zone, it's in their perfect right to ignore these posts and threads. But then they should do exactly that. There are enough other anons.

/ic/ isn't limited to Loomis, that has nothing to do with having a 'one size literally fits all' art resource.

>>2439399
His stuff is very inconsistent, but some of it's good. Quality seems to fluctuate a lot. I'd call him late stage beginner.

>>2439541
>his
very obviously female but I agree with your assessment.

>>2439541
>drawing since 15
>beginner

even if you don't conscientiously think about fundamentals, it's safe to say that copying anime and disney will lend you some form of skill.

>>2439541

Beginner by the standards of an older CA I imagine.

I remember looking through all sorts of sketchbooks back in the day, seeing people so far ahead that they made most of what is posted here look like kindergarten arts&crafts time - and that was beginner.

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Ignore the fact that it's a photo, my scanner isn't working right and it's actually a decent pic.

My advice: Don't ignore the fundamentals. I did and I think it shows in my current work. I'm taking classes now in school that will focus on the fundamentals which I'm grateful for and it's already helping my work.

But seriously, save yourself later frustrations and headaches by starting off doing fundamentals and studies, and then applying that to your fun personal drawings. Let the studies be the main focus of your work. I'm trying to do studies most of the week, and then apply it to fun drawings on the weekends (since if you can't apply what you're learning, you aren't really learning it and are only memorizing it in a certain way).

Don't avoid drawing what you're bad at (Like i did. Look at the hands) because again you're just making things harder for yourself down the line.

>>2439876
Adding that I'm in school for 2D animation and character design, so when i was told to display my best personal work, I did a character design. This pece shows perfectly where I am at with my understanding of art right now and how far I have to go. I still consider myself a beginner.

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Do simple warm-ups like gesture and light sketching for as many hours as it takes until your awkwardness around the paper goes away. And if i know artists who complain about not being able to get in the zone, that would be pretty much all of you reading.

Nearly all effort expended in a cold state on complicated shit or planned serious efforts is wasted. (This includes studies.) You won't learn a goddamn thing or be able to make any reliable output until you warm up, and it can take a while sometimes.

And by the way. Everything counts on gesture. Every fucking stupid little thing. So definitely start there.

>>2433342
How many hours a day would you say you practiced in order to get better?

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If you want to have a nice solid drawing, you should start learning constructive and academic drawing to discipline yourself. Then comes everything else, painting, sketching. You'll see everything from a different point of view and you'll analyse everything way better.
Thanks to constructive drawing, i've learned how to draw everything I want.

>>2434317
Fuck off faggot. Post your art, you buttmad wannabe shitsucker.

>>2440238
this is pretty solid advice 2bh

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>>2434985

I drew it you shitty hater c:

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My biggest piece of advice is to not get distracted. This really hit me hard the other day when I was about to play Rocket League and I saw that I had 150 hours.

I was just thinking to myself "how much better would I be if I had spent those 150 hours practicing and working on my art?"

I have nothing to show for that time wasted.

>>2440637
I feel as guilty as you are. i've been playing pc games too much

>>2440637

I stopped playing CSGO entirely after I deranked from MG to SII for the R8 update. Was probably for the better.

It's not worth keeping a virtual rank that's so easy to lose.

>>2440676
It's extra funny because even though ice got 150 hours, I'm still in the bronze ranking. I'm at the top of bronze but still. Man, fuck that game it's so goddamn addicting. I'll catch myself thinking maybe I should practice more. But again, it's time wasted.

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>>2440676
at those ranks your problem isn't even aiming since no one can aim, its just positioning on the map as ct & sticking together as t

>>2440702
>sticking together as t
most of the time you're all gonna get killed in a nice choke, if you're above GN2.

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>>2440708

I'm not great or any thing but sticking together & getting return kills been working ok when I do play I dunno not too into it

>>2434297
dude you just said it, if everyone here has more knowledge than its experience then the people that have good art have even more knowledge than the rest, so i should listen more to their advise

>>2433342
the left is better then my portraits right now

>>2439289
Nope. Catbib and other related /ic/ artists have been drawing for more time than me and they are probably more inherently skilled.

>>2440340
As much as I could, I have been drawing every day since I started. It's hard for me to give an average but I would say that I draw between 2-4 hours per day

>>2441498
fwiw I drew several isolated face features for 1 month before attempting that 1st portrait,

The thing about the "Well let's see YOU do better" attitude is it's pretty bullshit when it comes to assessing valuable advice. In sports, the best coaches/trainers are typically guys who never accomplished much in their sport of choice, (example: Freddie Roach is one of the world's greatest boxing trainers but never got beyond amateur league) but that's not the point. The point with advice is to check it against what you know and see if MAYBE there's some useful information to be gleaned.

NOW, that isn't to say all advice is useful. In fact I'd say most of the stuff that passes for advice around here is bullshit Tiger Mom brutalism masquerading as wisdom or Tough Enough-ness. BUT, because this is a mostly-anonymous message board, someone looking for advice really can't be too snooty about who he decides to take seriously.

Just look at a piece of criticism/advice given, and try for yourself. Or don't. But great artists are often times the WORST when it comes to teaching others.

>>2441557

/thread

>>2441557
"Well let's see YOU do better" seems to mostly be used by defensive/sensitive artists that cant handle critique. By "handle" I mean know to listen to what is said, though take what stinks of bullshit with a grain of salt, and brush off whatever they may find upsetting and remain objective.

>>2432913
holy shit lmao

>>2434922
>literally "muh style" the anon

Fuck off and leave your comfort zone.

>>2441557
>Tiger Mom brutalism

what

>>2444734
The kind of mom that screams louder than her childs.

>>2433342
>left: ordinary woman, albeit big-lipped, but it just shows a fault, something we all have
>right: weeaboo shit