Paint Tool SAI

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>>2318636

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>>2318637
Last one.

>>2318636
Looks really nice, is that what you wanted to hear?

>>2318639
Thanks. But no, I genuinely want some advice for the program. I'm mostly painting very opaquely and without much clue on how to control things like in PS. I just want some advice or resources.

>>2318641
Just keep painting. It looks like you have a very good handle on the programm already.

>>2318637
that's one glistening boi

>>2318636
This is hella good! I'm kinda getting that shill feel, but undeniably good work!

>>2318636
damn your paintings look so juicy! I've been painting on Sai for like 4 years and still haven't figured out some of the settings, there's tons of tutorials on Deviant art tho(http://maakucat.deviantart.com/art/Tool-Settings-Tutorial-Paint-Tool-SAI-301449395), check them out then start playing with your own brush settings, see what works best for you. I change my brush settings quite a lot, blending around 45% and dilution always high, same for the watercolor tool

>>2318715
I feel I have more of a handle on painting, not the program. But yeah, just going through the motions and trying things I can probably figure stuff out eventually.

>>2318779
Thanks. Not shilling though. It's not like I'm posting my name in the first post or anything.

>>2318790
Oh hey you showed up! Love your art. It's so fluid and loose, my stuff always has a stiffness to it, and when I try to get that fluidity it comes across as insincere or unsuccessful. I need to really fiddle a lot to get each stroke to look like I did it in one go.

Thanks for the link! That tutorial explaining the tools is exactly what I was looking for! Some of the settings I would never have figured out on my own probably, like Smoothing Pressure. The Persistence setting is really cool too, you can't do it quite like that in PS.

>>2318801
thank you! hey do you have a blog or something?, I really want to see more of your stuff!
also, check this out http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.cl/2008/04/windmill-principle.html
when you pay attention to soft edges/ hard edges/ darks and lights it really helps making stuff look fluid and smooth~. or at least since I practiced that a little it made me improve quite a bit!

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Starting to figure out some brush stuff a little, but still struggling.

>>2318912
I've seen that article before, but thanks for the reminder. I don't really consciously think of it the principle like that (though I do think about value patterns). Maybe I should try to consider it more, especially in regards to edgework.

As for a blog...well I have a tumblr but don't update it much at all. And my website has work a couple years old in, even the password protected pages I have work that's quite outdated. I just don't bother putting my work online really these days. So I'm a bit embarrassed by what I have online. Normally I guess would link it since you asked, but I've been accused in this thread a couple times of shilling already, so I'll refrain. I am following you on tumblr already though so if you just look through your followers you might be able to figure out who I am--my initials are AS if that helps.

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>>2319791
And a little Velazquez copy...this one was very very very difficult. His work seems easy to understand until you try copying it then you stumble over lots of subtle things. I guess it's not flashy so it's deceivingly skillful.

>>2319791
>>2319794
This looks amazing, please share your process with us

>>2319791
This looks really good considering that it seems like you didn't spend that much time on it.

>>2319800
Thanks. My process on these is very straightforward since I don't know the tools that well yet. I used pretty much just one layer the entire time, then used a combination of the brush, watercolour, and blur tool. I kept the opacity pretty high. To start I knocked in the background value over the whole canvas then did a VERY loose line lay-in (maybe a dozen lines total) with a fat brush. Filled in the local colours of each shape, put in some shadow shapes. All this is very rough and ugly and probably done in like 3 minutes. Then I just fiddle a ton with the shapes and edges and clean it up until it looks okay. Lots of repainting each area over and over to bring it closer to what I want, usually this takes 1 or 2 hours, sometimes more. If the drawing is really off (it often is) because I started too sloppy then I will lasso something to move it over a little bit or rotate it.

It's honestly as basic a process as possible. Observe--what is the value, colour, shape, and edge? Put down the mark. Do that for everything and do multiple passes tweaking things because the first few times it's usually not as accurate as you thought (you get a better sense of each part as the whole image comes together). I always stay very zoomed out. If it's not looking good I zoom out even further. I'll only zoom in if I can't capture a detail properly from afar (perhaps the intricacies in an eye).

Anyways, sorry if that doesn't help with SAI at all, but it's more general painting remarks that should work in PS or even traditional paints to a degree.

Realized I said opacity in >>2319810 when in SAI it is called Density.


>>2319805
Thank you. I don't know how long it took, maybe an hour or an hour and a half? Perhaps more? Or less? I'm bad at guessing if I don't time it. I tend to lack patience though so I just focus on getting the overall quick read to be decent even if it isn't refined that much.

>>2319791
This one is really appealing, is it a mastercopy? The hairline transition, it is so elegant


The vast majority of tuts for Sai teach you how to blend anime drawings. I know that you can do quite a fair bit with hand painted brush tips. There's a guy that I can't remember

His name on Deviant art was Something-3numbers I think. They were all fairly abstract and poor drawings, but good examples of what you can do with the tool.

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>>2319846
Hm, I didn't know you could create your own brush tips in SAI. Even in PS though I never bothered with that and just used brushes from other people's packs. So far I've been using mostly the simple round and the fine pointy brush in SAI.

If you remember the name of the guy post his tutorial or gallery or whatever.

Also thanks for compliment, the painting was from a photo, I attached it here. In this one I didn't really care about copying exactly, I wanted to try to make changes that made it look better so I made her skinnier in both the face and body, simplified her ugly dress to something more classy, got rid of the vignette dark colour grading and made it more high key, changed some edges etc etc. It's just a random photo I pulled from my files, it came in some pack of a ton of photos of portraits I downloaded ages ago.

>>2319791
I know you then!! goddd I love your paintings so much, I showed your tumblr to a couple of friends and everyone is like wow, a Craig Mullins in the making, post more please your work is amazing

Damn, you guys are great.


I was wondering if either of you had any tips when it comes to blending? I've gotten pretty decent at blocking in the basic values/shapes in a painting, but when I go to start refine/blend, it all goes to shit. I've tried using different opacity/flow settings, different brushes, brush sizes, I just can't seem to get those smooth transitions every painting in here has. I'm still using PS, and it feels like there's an overwhelming amount of options and sliders for each brush and none of them give me the result I want.


Do you start with hard edges/shapes and then smudge/blend them out? or soft and then add in the harder edges where needed?


Smudge tool? or soft brush?


Also a bit of a noob question about painting in general... You mentioned in your process you lay down local colors first, isn't this contrary to the whole 'paint from dark to light' mantra?


Thanks for any answers/tips/help. I'd really like it if you post your blog too, fuck shilling, it'd honestly be a big help.

>>2318801
>I feel I have more of a handle on painting, not the program.
That's pretty much it and why most people here hate SAI and cling to PS.
SAI rewards your prowess as a painter, the tools try to imitate traditional media as well as possible and there's few shortcuts. That's why good artists can make awesome shit in it, but amateurs can't seem to figure it out.
You're doing really good. Just familiarize yourself with the blending and the layer modes and you'll be ok.

>>2319941
personally I start with hard edges/shapes and then blend them with watercolor(smudge), adding hard edges again to define core shadows and where light meets dark. sai brushes are so much easier, can't really help you with ps :(

>>2318637
>unshaved armpits
>on a woman
jesus christ

>>2320081
The fuck are you talking about? SAI is one of the most stripped down painting programs out there. If anything using SAI is the crutch because it automatically blends so much for you. You're actually so braindead if you think that photoshop can't imitate traditional media.

>>2319876
Ah geez...giving me the ultimate compliment there! I'm flattered even if I disagree with it 100%. I lack so many things both artistically and mentally that make Mullins who he is. Plus you're the one who is much younger than me and doing things I can't.

I'll see about maybe posting up more images on my tumblr at some point. Maybe not right away. I have dozens of paintings I haven't posted publicly, some of them are my best works I think.

>>2319941
Hard to give specific advice without seeing your work. I painted in PS with only the hard round for a year when I first started. Then I introduced the soft round. Later I tried texture brushes. I gradually figured out things one by one over the course of years. So I learned a bit about brush settings, the mixer brush, layer modes, smudge tool, various "tricks" or techniques or whatever. It all grew organically over time.

Also blending is overrated. Look at some of Ruanjia's paintings or some of Ulysse Verhasselt's stuff or Alberto Mielgo's stuff. All completely hard edged opaque and reads well.

>Do you start with hard edges/shapes and then smudge/blend them out? or soft and then add in the harder edges where needed?
I do both. If you are a beginner though start with hard edges then blend them out. You will have way more control this way.

>Smudge tool? or soft brush?
Yes and yes. Careful of each though, they can easily make edges too soft. It's not binary--there's a whole range of edges you need.

>local colors first, isn't this contrary to the whole 'paint from dark to light' mantra?
That mantra is not set in stone. It would take a while to fully explain why people say to use it or not...but just know that with digital you can start any way--light, midtone, or dark--and work to the reverse or creep the the extremes. They all work. Personally I really like using the local colour to start then going out from there to the extremes. It's fast and avoids colour/value confusion.

>>2320115
That's my fetish, too bad it has been hijacked by feminism and they probably ruined it forever.
Not OP by the way, just wanted to share my suffering.

>>2320278
Photoshop literally cannot imitate traditional media because it's blending algorithm is additive.

>>2318636
Really would like to see your brush settings if you are still here. I never could figure out how to get brushes like this in sai

>>2320280
I would love to follow your tumblr m8

>>2318636
OP please record a video. Please do it!

>>2318636
how do you fucking even do this in sai

>>2320322
It's not the brushes, it's the brusher.
OP has admitted he's a SAI virgin so I doubt he's modding anything but the density, bending, opacity and persistence sliders.
>>2320326
It's just a tool, try painting like you would with your favorite traditional medium and you'll find yourself doing similar, unless you don't know how to paint.

>>2320340
But I mean how do I even start like that? I don't really no how to paint super well in sai and seeing your pic is crazy to me. Is there a place I can start practicing painting and blending in sai?

>>2320342
>how to start
Grab reference, select brush, select color, drag stylus on the canvas.

>>2320342
Best thing you can do is start with basic shapes and then basic textures like wood.
You need to learn about light and color mostly, so you can correctly lay the values down, which is arguably the most important part of painting, then blend until you reach the desired finish. There is no universal right or wrong way to paint, some subjects will look gorgeous with the roughest paint splatters, some will only look good with a correct balance of sharp and soft edges.

Have fun.

>>2320316
Photoshop can look pretty close to oils when you use the mixer brush. I think the colour mixing is a little closer to real paints in Painter or ArtRage but it's hardly a big deal and is easily worked around by manually picking colours. Making digital look exactly like traditional shouldn't be the goal anyhow.

>>2320322
>>2320326
I have no idea what I used. That was my first painting in SAI. I didn't even know what density meant. I think I just used the default settings or maybe moved some sliders by accident without any idea of what they did.

>>2320324
Prepare to be disappointed, I don't post most of my work, and what I do post is mostly unfinished sketches.
http://andrewsonea.tumblr.com/

>>2320325
My computer isn't good enough to record things. I'm also very self conscious about my early stages. So no. I also don't see the point when there are many videos out there already made by people with 10x my skills/experience/knowledge.

>>2320340
Basically this, I didn't even modify half those settings. I don't know SAI at all. I know how to observe shapes, value/colour, and edge and can brute force my way to results in a study even if I don't know the tool well (for digital at least since you can repaint areas instantly...traditional I suck balls). You can paint almost any image with just a hard opaque brush. People are mistaking basic painting skills for a knowledge of the program.

>>2320342
Don't focus on the tool. Focus on drawing and painting skills and understanding of form. Most beginner errors are not because of a lack of understanding of the tool, but a lack of basic art skills. These are literally my first attempts in SAI, but I have years of experience of painting in Photoshop so I am using my knowledge built up from that.

>>2320363
I've saved lots of your work but had no idea they were from the same person. Good inspiration.

>>2320363
not disappointed at all. I think it's enlightening to see how people progress. I'll be doubly-not-disappointed if you decide to start updating with more of your stuff, but I know how it can be.

Also, props for repeating the importance of knowing how to paint/draw vs knowing the program. Understanding your tools is part of pro/master-level learning imo, not something beginners and intermediates need to worry about in depth.

Your stuff is inspiring. Can't help but feel a daunted seeing all the progress you made in a year, while all the older stuff was already at a much higher level then me, but it's all the more reason to keep pushing. Thanks m8

>>2319941
You haven't tried everything yet. If you can think of it, photoshop can do it; it's too expansive of a program.
Here's a hint: Smudge Tool + Soft Round Brush + Scattering on.

SAI is great, I use it first and foremost. Painting is easy with it, as long as you have a basic understanding of everything painting encompasses. I only ever use varying degrees of density of the regular "brush" tool, with varying degrees of the blending meter on said brush.

Using the "blur" tool or too soft of a brush always comes out a bit undesirable, so I avoid. Also never use textures.

lol why the fuck do people think this program is not capable of stuff like this and OP did something magic, SAI can blend, blur and has a color wheel just like every other program, it has literally nothing to do with the brushes just the person using them

>>2320280
Thanks for the advice, this is turning out to be a pretty great thread.

>>2320280

>local colors first, isn't this contrary to the whole 'paint from dark to light' mantra?
>That mantra is not set in stone.


I've always wondered about this too. Is this just more to do with traditional mediums and how actual paint mixes? I see most digital artists starting with a midtone/flat/local, but everyone always says to start with darks.

>>2320545
Hahaha salty ass nigga

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>>2318636
I want to paint vases like you

>>2320545
brush engines are propietary, so there are some nuances between apps. They may all look similar but are not exact to one another.

>>2320363
>http://andrewsonea.tumblr.com/
>sailors and dead mermaid guy
Holy shit, I've been looking for you! Excited to see more stuff from you when you can post 'em.

pait tool sai have a technology very similar to Painter digital watercolors (without the ability to dry mind you)

almost all the tools behave like this they blend and drag colors


>>2321091
this render is pretty basic

>>2321099
SAI's brush engine is perfectly capable of imitating oil, gouache and alcohol markers.

>>2321117
All you have to do is turn blending off and set 'blend' to 0

Or just use the pen tool

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Boring ass study, practicing using the brush instead of the watercolour. Should I let this thread die? It almost did but I felt I should reply to people here. I also am not sure how much more SAI I will do in the next few weeks. Got holiday crap and also an art test to do so I will do that in PS.

>>2320392
Cheers. I do have an inconsistent style though yeah.

>>2320402
Thanks, though I haven't improved really.

>>2320539
I've just used those things as well, density and and blending on the brush is enough.

>>2320945
Yes, it comes from traditional, though there are other reasons people use it as well. I suggest you try every approach and see what works for you.

>>2321091
Ooh nice vase! Some edges are a bit blown out in places that I think they should be defined though, and vice versa. I should do more vases too.

>>2321115
Thanks

>>2324016
No your paintings are beautiful and giving me idea's of how to use Sai to achieve similar effects. Keep thread alive and keep bumping/posting your work.

>>2318636
Finally a good thread about SAI! Saving images and tips vigorously. I have such an old slow-ass computer, SAI is one of the few programs that runs smoothly on it...

>>2324016
This is the best thread on /ic/, even though I don't use sai, i love your perspective on painting. Please dont let it die.

>>2318638
I really like your leyendecker study. I actually just found out about him yesterday and wanted to do some studies on his work too. Mostly on his females tho. Know any other artist similar to him?

>>2324063
>>2324070
>>2324128
Wow thanks guys. I'll keep an eye on this thread so it doesn't die then, and share things about SAI if I learn more.

>>2324258
Hm, hard to say. Leyendecker is pretty unique. He had a brother actually who painted in the same style as him but was less famous and succumbed to drug overdoes (possibly suicide). And some of Rockwell's early work is influenced by him as well. Maybe just check out other Golden Age American illustrators, they are probably the closest. Leyendecker was actually trained in France and highly influenced by some artists he met there, so maybe look at the artists he likes--Mucha, Toulouse-Lautrec etc. He also collected medieval illuminated manuscripts and that influenced his design language a to fair bit. If you like Leyendecker though he has a massive body of work, so even if you can't find others exactly like him you can be satisfied with just him for a long time.

>>2324284
dont forget that he looooved the cock. cant forget that.

Ah, Andrew Sonea... that name has got a familiar pep to it!

It is fancy seeing you here, though you're a long way from CA. What brings you to the gutter?

I'm not that experienced myself, but I find that when trying to paint opaquely, setting the minimum density to at least 50 or so in the advanced settings makes things easier to handle. It's a really obvious thing but I missed it when I was first meddling around with the program.

>>2325547
Not Andrew, but where else is he supposed to go? Unfortunately there's no better art community, especially not for getting crits

Andrew, stop doing studies, your handling of brushes and edges are great, sure it can be better but start making your own paintings. your compositions are lacking in many of your images cause you can't properly compose an image from start. good job on the dead mermaid tho

>>2326488
I ache for a new CA.org

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am not a good artist but I just tested sai and it seem ok to me

pic related, used the brush tool and 40-ish blending mode

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>>2326519

>>2326519
that fucking nose

>>2325547
Oh man, someone from CA? You remember me? I was a bit saddened a couple years ago at the MB event in LA when no one seemed to know who I was, even people from CA that I was sure would recognize my name. Who are? Shoot me an email if you wanna chat or whatever.

As for why I'm here...CA died, forums in general died, I got sick of fb's attention whore nature and lack of discussion. I dunno. I've been hanging around here for a few years now. It's not the best, but it's better than the alternatives, and anonymous posting has its advantages.

>>2326494
Thanks. I agree with you, though I actually don't do that many studies these days. The last year or two I've barely done any studies and have done either client work or personal pieces from my head. I haven't posted that stuff though. I think my composition has improved, but as you say it's still weak. Probably more of a draftsmanship weakness than a reference weakness though.

>>2326520
Wow I didn't notice the palette thing before. What's the point though? Why not pick off your canvas or manually off the colour ring thing? Also why did you duplicate the layer a couple times?

>>2326621
"Wow I didn't notice the palette thing before. What's the point though? Why not pick off your canvas or manually off the colour ring thing? Also why did you duplicate the layer a couple times?"


I like to paint with real oil/acrylic so the palette option make me feel at home.

Also If you make illustrations for a book, to keep the color consistency I find it better to block the main colors so each pages of the book would have more or less some kind of homogeneity.
Duplicated the painting when the face did not had those piercings and shit in case I fuck it up too much .

Somehow the brushes don t work that well when I pain on an empty layer, the blending is weird.

Keep in mind I am not a real professional so those are just what s working for me in sai right now.

>>2326519
is she alcoholic?
i really hope she is alcoholic and not your tumblr signature

>>2326621
if you are doing personal stuff then start posting it online! I can't see what it isn't shown. I don't care if it's draftsman or your dependance on studies. it's almost like you don't have confidence in your original pieces therefore you only post things you do have confidence in which are studies. I've been following your since CA days and it seems like you are limiting yourself with exploring styles, independently making images, and trying new things. It's all my opinion and you don't have to give an rat's ass about what I say, but I would just like to tell you to add some spice in your images! stop following old master or whoever's foot steps and make your own path.

>>2326621

>Who are?

You wouldn't know me very well, but I've seen you around. You weren't like the rest... always very helpful to the people around you and I came to admire that from you as a teen challenger myself.

It's been years later and you've come a long way, and I understand your reasons for coming here. It is an unfortunate fact that forum culture has for the most part died and that the remaining vestiges will inevitably meet the same fate.

It would seem that Facebook has been eating everything recently. In lieu of this, I've done away with most social media and find myself at home with these fine degenerates.

Anyway, you've improved and I'm happy to see that you're in good spirits.

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>>2327390
>facebook eating everything

I hate that shit site so much, why must it be such a success?

All bg groups arent even helpful its just a "crit pls" self promo slugfest

CGplus has a forum but they already purged their site once because of "reasons"

>>2327546
>purged their site
When did this happened?

>>2327546

It's the business model.

It has devoured many services - instant messaging, social networking, forums, soon video hosting as they are encouraging people to steal content and rebrand it as their own, swiping hundreds of thousands of views from the original content creators and monetizing it.

It's brilliant really. I feel like art will find a way, but facebook will always be a formality so long as it is around.

>>2327549
CGplus is made by the people of CGHub a site which just dissapeared one day to the next

>>2328151
It's so convienient as well. Everything is within easy reach. But many of my closest friends, even family aren't on it so I'm less attached.

Just using it as self promo because internet following aint gonna grow itself