it's time to practice d/ic/kheads!

Aye don't we already have a thread for this?

>>2286520
>>2286516
about to die
last thread >>2246720

>>2286516
Why is this thread not as popular as the last one?

>>2286516
What are some good books about head construction?
I've read Loomis' Drawing the Head and Hands, and Hampton's book

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>>2288196
loomis' head and hands is best imo

>>2288351
Hum idk, maybe I'll just keep trying. I just feel like there is something missing from his construction. But it is probably my noobness

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>>2288348

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>>2290319
>>2288348

Whoops, I messed up the first image.

>>2290327
and i though just that one redline of yours in the other thread was shit

>>2290334
Correct me if I'm wrong, asshole.

Halfway through this one. Critiques welcome.

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>>2290443
sigh.

>>2290444
You could define edges a little less, but idk.

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>>2290447
Thanks. I'm too focused on learning head construction and neglecting everything else. My stuff is looking very stiff too. I'll work on it.

>>2290444
that is the manliest link i have ever seen.

>>2290444
That hand is pretty poorly contructed you know

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some cyclops heads

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>>2290831

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>>2290832

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>>2290862

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>>2290688
Hey man these are really good! I tried a little paintover for you, hopefully it helps a bit.

Note that I don't do stylized stuff like you do, I'm more of a painter. So uh, I solved the issues through my methods, and hopefully you can take the lessons and apply it to your own stuff instead of getting caught up in our stylistic differences.

I feel that you are using more lines than necessary. Sure it's good to construct but you don't want to leave all those lines in, especially when some are shorthands that aren't very accurate. Like you use a line that extends from the chin to the ear. It's not a bad line to use since it is an approximation of the plane change from the face to the side of the head, and it does have some basis in actual underlying anatomy. But I feel the way you draw it doesn't really follow the zygomatic bone accurately and likely this line wouldn't fully connect to the chin. When you draw it out it looks more like a crease than anything else, and really ages your characters and looks a bit odd.

Another issue are your shadow shapes. I feel you are getting caught up in the smaller forms and losing sight of the major ones. Like on the black dude, I just painted him in two values and got rid of all line. It should still read clearly like this. But in yours you have lots of little shapes in there on his neck, you overemphasize the individual muscles (sternomastoid) and forget the main form of the neck which is a large cylinder. One thing that may actually help would be to paint it out fully like I did with the goblin lady. By figuring out where exactly every plane is you get a good understanding of what is a halftone and what is a shadow, and this will help once you go back to just two value images like you did before. You'll get much more accurate shapes if you know how to paint it.

You may also play with softening some edges. I did that on Link, I used hte smudge tool to quickly make the form shadows turn, and left the cast shadows hard.

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>>2286516
it seems like i will never get the hang of color man

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>>2290862
Good you are focusing on construction but there are some pretty major proportion issues. In general you make the cranium too wide and large. And you are squishing some of the faces a little too. It feels a bit like you are overcompensating the beginner error of putting hte eyes too high on the head and not making enough skull--you've got hte opposite issue.

>>2290917

I agree about what you said about putting to much emphasize on construction lines that end up looking like creases rather than plane breaks. I disagree what you said about softening edges though as it competly changes his sketching style which is based on flat comic book-ish shadows. I personally find the flat look very appealing. But if he wants to transition into painting you're right.

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>>2290921
You just need to ensure that your colours are all relative to each other. Think about global lighting. Are all the colours shifted one direction or another? What temperature have you shifted things?

I tried painting a few options for you. Right now I feel yours is a bit off temperature-wise. The sky is a strong blue/purple, and then she is painted overly warm. It doesn't feel quite right.

You can try applying Auto Color over your image. If it barely changes then you probably did an okay job balancing your colours. If it changes a lot (like in this case) you can see "oh, I made it too warm and it's weird". Obviously this isn't a perfect tool, but it's surprisingly good to check things or colour correct a bit.

To balance your bg and girl, I tried first greying out the bg a bit and making it less purple and more towards a green blue. You can also use things like soft light to bring in more warmth and it also saturates things a bit more which if used selectively can be great.

I also tried one where I had a strong blue sky with direct sunlight. The shadows in this scenario are usually darker than you'd expect. The lights are bright, and while they are still warm they are not overly so, especially in the highlights.

Try studying and observing light in different cases. And always try to find a nice balance of temperature and make sure the colours feel like they belong with the other colours.

Reference can help too when you are stuck. I didn't use any here, but I could have come up with more solutions (perhaps better) if I did.

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this turned into drawing metal gear very quickly

>>2290776
Yes, you're right. Forgive me, hands aren't my focus ATM. I'll redraw it.

>>2290764
I'll take that as a compliment.

>>2290917
Sweet dude! Thanks. Great crit. I'll apply your advice ASAP. Thanks again for taking the time, and for that sweet paintover!

>>2290952
Not him, but I love your paintovers.

>>2290934
You can maintain a flatness while also have some soft edges in there. In any case it was just a suggestion for him to play around with if he wants. I did also preface my comment by saying to overlook the stylistic differences between us. Thanks for voicing your opinion though. He's free to stick to hard edges if he so wishes :)

>>2291180
No problem, glad you like it!

>>2291185
Thanks. If you want me to do one for you then I'd be happy to, just post up your image and let me know.

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>>2290925

Thanks m8, I'll work on it.

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(Are beginners welcome or should I go to the beginner thread?)

My construction for imaginary heads is flawed in a particular way. I believe almost every shape needs to be extruded outward more. Nose, muzzle, forehead. I've done about 15 heads and so far all of them have the same issues.

If that good teacher who always posts suggestions could take a look at it, it'd be great

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>>2290952
>You just need to ensure that your colours are all relative to each other
this is the hardest thing.
at first i wanted a direct sunlight but i didnt quite looked as i wanted so thanks for your paintover!
and in all honesty, if you are who i think, im jelly of your skills man. cant wait to get to that level.
just gotta keep studying. thanks again much appreciated

Well, this thread died rather quick compared to the last one.

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I'm in a slump, but here's some more.

>>2297491
Damn son... cool stuff.

>>2290802
i likey

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How's this so far?

>>2297749
Not bad! Your geometry is a little off on your down shots. I'll explain with a redline if I've got time tomorrow.

>>2297749

Try to study the shape of eyebrows a little more carefully. Treat them as if they are thin strips of clay when constructing. They have mass too. Right now they all look like those white trash blondes who shave off their eyebrows and draw them badly back on with an eyeliner.

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Doing some direct drawing without construction or reference. Fun but challenging

what books/techniques do you guys recommend to learn how to construct the head?

>>2303721

Hampton week 3

>>2298729
Very nice, I especially like the Dali one. Any literature/resources you'd recommend?

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>>2306441

>>2308415

Step 3, I'm pretty sure that's not what is commonly referred to as ambient occlusion. In my definition ambient occlusion is only included in the last step; the dark accents under the beard and the folds in front.

>>2308443
Well there's two sort of terms that get thrown around. "Occlusion shadows" which is mostly just those tiny near black accents in deep crevases that you refer to, and then "ambient occlusion" which is a borrow term from 3d, and it is the same physical process but the entire thing, as in it can happen more subtly and everywhere. Just look up some 3d images of it and see how it looks with ONLY that. If there was no ambient occlusion in that third step then all the cast shadows would have the exact same value, which they don't.

Anyways, it's mostly semantics. The process is still correct and straightforward and clear from the images alone, so arguing over the meanings of buzzwords is not really the important thing here.

>>2308444

I am well aware of AO looks in 3d. I just think the term is used incorrectly here and it might cause more confusion than be educational.

>>2308447
I suppose. I think it's technically correct, but I still wouldn't use it personally in this case as I agree it is a bit confusing. Although do people honestly even really read the text on these things? Or obsess over specifics of the text? I don't really care much for tutorials to begin with, but when I do look at them I just look at the images since they can tell me more than a sentence can. Very rarely does the text ever add anything, and in this case it is pretty obvious.

>>2288699
What are you having issues with?

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is it too obvious the actor i used for ref?

>>2309480
I barely know any actors so it may not be a good indicator, but I don't recognize him at all. His ear looks really weird btw.

>>2309480

Proko pls u no actor

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Any critique (bonus if it's about structure, I'm trying to really understand head structure)

>>2309591
Everything looks to be drawn fairly accurately in terms of placement, and you do have some sense of structure...BUT most of the forms have been flattened quite a lot. Look at the nose in the ref, it really projects off the face. Yours looks like it is pushed onto the face. The mouth, same thing. You can feel the form being pushed in in the corners of the mouth and the crease of the mouth. His bottom lip bulges outwards with a full form. But in yours it looks completely flat. There is no form, there are no different planes on it. The eyebrows on yours are flat, but in reality they start off near the nose by being underneath the brow and sort of in the eye socket, then they twist up and out over the brow ridge as they get farther out towards the eyes. Even the head structure, he has a rather major plane change as you go over the zygomatic bone down the cheek. There is a pretty distinct "front" and "side" to his face. You got this to some degree because you put in some value, but it is sort of blobby and not really showing the form as well as it could or should.

It's not a bad start, but I think you can observe a bit more closely and spend a bit more time making sure to REALLY get the structure shown correctly. It's these small differences that will push you art to the next level.

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posting old shit bcuz im lazy

ill do some more later

>>2309591
Flip the canvas.

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kill me with a shovel

>>2290444
all the faces look kind of samey

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>>2309599
Thanks for the really good crit man
I am trying to take under consideration everything you said but I could not manage to do it without shading the crap out of my lineworks. In the future head studies I will work on this and try to convey these volume aspect with lines or very very basic shading. It's just hard for me ether I do linework or finished look/copy..

>>2309903
Looks way better now. Still there are some small things, but overall you managed to get the structure much better.

>>2290921
You need to learn how lighting works, specially in skin, in normal daylight, if i'm not mistaken, you can observe yellowish coloration in the brightest posts, and in the shadows you can see a little coloration from the reflected light of the surroundings, usually it's a bit blueish from the sky.

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this angle was hard

>>2310791
I've told you this before many times--when you have taken it as far as you can from your head, spend a few minutes to find some appropriate reference to take it that last 20%. All the forms feel just slightly and don't feel quite right. I spent 2 minutes searching and found a couple close-ish refs, if you looked longer you can find ones that match more closely.

http://i2.blogs.indiewire.com/images/blogs/anthony/archives/Arnold_Schwarzenegger.jpg

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/california-governor-arnold-schwarzenegger.jpg

Also, be careful of the rimlight. You're using it too much like an outline. Remember that it is a reflection of a light source, so it will hit entire planes (that we view at extreme angles) and it will need to be consistent in what it hits.

>>2310791
fix that ear, nigga

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>>2310812
i did use references but more for the features than the angle so thanks for the references
>>2311034
i realized that when you put things in perspective you realize you dont really know the way forms really are

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4 hours study

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>>2311697
here is the reference

>>2311697
Not bad, but your shadow values are inconsistent and patchy. I think you overstate the reflected light in places. Try to group your values a bit more for a clearer and more pleasant read of things.

>>2311703
thanks dude, yep im going to practice the values, im really new to to the "value" and "shadow" things, normally i just draw the contorn of the face.

>>2311711
Cool. Also when I posted that comment I hadn't seen your post yet of the reference. Now that I see that it is apparent there are some major shape and angle and proportion errors. Just look at the two thumbnails and it is pretty obvious. Even if you intentionally straightened the angle of the head there are many other errors.

>>2311714
i forgot the angle of the head, I always start whith a straigh line in my paper, that is the problem.

>>2311718
That is a problem. You should spend the first few minutes just noting the major angles and relationships within the image. If they are not correct you do not move on.

>>2311719
OK dude, thanks for your advices. I'm going to practice every aspect that i failed in this drawing.

>>2309872
this

>>2297491
your faces are so ugly and blocky

>>2314837
thanks

>>2315234
Thank you.

>>2314486
breddy good anon

>>2315449
Thanks.

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Structures are not solid I know. That's my biggest problem and working for it.
I consider myself understand the basic meaning of a facial position; But to accomplish on actual drawing is really hard.

>>2315533
Head is an improvement over your older stuff. The shoulders and clavicles and their relation to the head are pretty messed up though.

>>2315575
You've got very confident lines, but as you say the structure isn't great. It's still somewhat symbol drawing on some of the features. I would take some time to study the features individually and separately and larger. Construct them properly and understand their structures and forms.

>>2290327
>>2290319
stop redlining you don't know shit

>>2315587
I will do whatever the fuck I want. Why don't you contribute instead of being a cunt.

>>2315706
I did contribute; I called you out on your bullshit.

>>2315727
It's a thankless job really.

>>2315761
I wish I was getting paid.

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wanted to do some irregular scars

>>2315955
isnt this a repost? have you drawn anything or are you just reposting....

>>2315967
the latter two are reposts but i figured i'd just throw them up since it's a head thread

>>2315955
>>2315943
try a punch hole or a bash scar
not everything is cuts and burns

>>2309591
Don't be afraid to go dark. Squint your eyes to simplify values. The whole right side of his face could be a great deal darker. Good start though.

>>2311723
If I were to draw this study, I would step 1, start with simplifying the hair into an ellipse, as well as the head, after taking my time and drawing each shape with purpose, making sure to get the size and angle correct.

That's me though, but it's something to think about as an approach to nailing the size ratios first thing. Think about the positive shapes (the ones you are drawing) as well as the negative shapes (the spaces between the drawn elements.)

Good luck.

>>2315587
>>2290334

...same guy?

what's wrong with his redline exactly?

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>The shoulders and clavicles and their relation to the head are pretty messed up though
how?

>>2316739
Is he meant to have such tiny lips?

>>2316750
Little biiiiiiiitss

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ass

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Can someone crit me on this?

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And on this one too.

>>2320147
Go back to your comics

>>2320147
serbs suck asian peepee

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>>2313153
>>2314486
really like your style, some madhouse animation kind of one. Keep it up.

for now, i'll try to fill a big page too.

>>2320147
I like this one a lot, well done

>>2320232
Thanks! I like what your doing too. Keep grinding.

>>2321095
Looking good. You've a tendency to draw the cranium small and face long relative to "ideal" proportion. Just something to be aware of if that wasn't your intention.

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>>2316750
haha. noted, thanks
>>2320232
i think the girl noses may be a tad too long and bulbous

>>2309480
Are you a fucking cawp?

>>2290327
I think that the redline makes the ear too high now.

>>2321991
You're improving with every piece. Keep at it.

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>>2322289
thanks
>>2322224
i think you should choose what lines to leave in and out

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>>2321095

>>2321095
Thanks for the feedback

>>2322871
that black shape is destroying the silhouette and making the image look all flat

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>>2291602

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>>2322892
how so?