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Animation Thread

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Thread replies: 322
Thread images: 73

Post animation, talk animation, discuss animation here.
>>
>>1910668

So you have open new thread, posted animation some other guy did just for the sake of discussion?
Looks like you are trapped by /ic.
i'm sure you are one of those who just admire others and don't draw by themself
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>>1910674
Mate it's just the thread picture. Never did I claim that I made it, it's only for inspiration. Lurk more newfag.
>>
>>1910668
I WONDER WHERE THEY GOT REFERENCES FOR ALL KEYFRAMES
ALL ARTISTS USE REFERENCES, WE ALL KNOW THAT
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>>1910687
i remember seeing that animators often have a mirror on their desk for face reference
>>
>>1910668
what is this from?
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>>1910691
http://soty6.tumblr.com/
>>
>>1910674
Self important newfags are the absolute worst
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What do you think, should I continue with this?
>>
>>1910712
yes v. cute, seems easy enough to keep on model
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>>1910668
>http://soty6.tumblr.com/
Did this guy traced scenes from animu?
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>>1910732
of course not, it's just fan animation.
>>
>>1910712

Why the use of skewing instead of properly drawing out the last few frames? It looks obvious and feels lazy.
>>
>>1910668
>>1910695
>>1910732
how does /ic/ reckon this guy got good? rigorous drawing, with little/no aid of fundamentals? or an academic approach from lifedrawing to stylisation? its in my understanding that the latter is not common in japanese artists (but im not sure if their animators also fall in the same bracket).

Im just extremely impressed by animation like this, or any animation really; it just shows a higher level of understanding and consistency of 3d forms than illustrations (where you can compensate the lack of fundamentals with complicated photoshop effects).
>>
>>1910687
They do have references for the character designs and mirrors for expressions.
They also have movement sheets.
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>>1910776
From what i've experienced the Japanese tend to learn mostly through rote learning, i.e. copying things over and over and over until they're memorised and understood.
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>>1910785
that's a completely illogical assumption when it comes to this field.
>>
>>1910776
http://sotymr01.tumblr.com/
This is his sketch blog, overall I just think he draws a lot and he really understands how things move and how they will look if moved.
>>
>>1910776
>with little/no aid of fundamentals?

What does this even mean? He clearly has strong fundamentals, knows how to draw the human figure and knows perspective. you can't get good without understanding the fundamentals. They are what make your art good in the first place.
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>>1910776
This guy sure knows his fundamentals, but i'm not sure if he's actually doing lifedrawing to improve his draftsmanship, they usually just invent a mannequin figure that they could turn around inside their head and just basing everything from there (of course sometimes they need to reference from real life).

Also to some extent, they're copying what they see on-screen, if you're watching Shirobako (that anime about making anime), one of the key animator is actually learning by copying genga. Hideaki Anno also has said that he usually copy explosion footage that he saw on television (that was around the 70s).

Toshiyuki Inoue also ever mentioned that the younger animator should just better learn/observe from the already well-known animator, since it took a long time for them to develop it, it'll be a waste of time to be struggling with the basic again.
>>
>>1910788
>that yama no susume drawing
I think i've seen this person's drawing retweeted by some animators that i've followed on twitter. brb.
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>>1910788
>http://sotymr01.tumblr.com/
Holy balls this guy is a beast and yet he sticks with mango.. why?????
>>
>>1910776

From a purely drawing perspective, traditional animators tend to have better fundamentals than other fields of art. This is especially true of the Japanese who manipulate more detailed shapes with complex cinematography, and don't often rotoscope no matter what that one idiot says about Jin Roh.

As for art education, Japanese public schools teach academic methods, and spend a larger portion of school hours on arts and humanities in general when compared to the U.S.. However, at a certain point, schools begin to push forward the students that show "talent" for art, and steer others away. The real art education mangaka receive are from their afterschool art clubs and doujinshi circles, where like-minded students study and push each other and learn through self-publishing.

Manga and anime have constraints both technical and financial that reward a certain homogeny in design, but they are not the entirety of the Japanese art scene. To draw any greater conclusion from that alone is narrow-minded at best, and at worst some passive-aggressive attempt to fit them into the Western narrative about Asians as uncreative drones, even while we've been appropriating design cues from them for centuries.
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>>1910820
you're being stupid on purpose?
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>>1910820
lack of interest with realism eventhough they're able to do it.

Also, asians, it could be from south-east or east-asia, grow up exposed to the japanese media such as manga and anime more than you know. It's no wonder that they tend to have greater affection towards it.
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>>1910799
By fundamentals, i mean isolating different primitive exercises that would otherwise collate to a high level of understanding of forms. i.e. drawing boxes in perspective, rendering spheres, learning anatomy by breaking it down to simple cylinders and boxes etc.

but anyone could very easily reach the same high level of understanding of forms by trial and error, which is what I implied. I meant that he could have learned from books that are derivative from fundamentals. i.e. scarcely learning anatomy and landmarks from 'how to draw manga' books and learning applied perspective and drapery from pose books (or something similar to these resources, the idea is that they dont hoard books of vilppu/scott-robertson quality)

instead of learning how to draw from primitive elements, he could have learned from drawing a fully clothed figure many times over; learning the fundamentals by trial and error. I dont understand what Im saying myself, but I think theres a distinction between these two methods of learning.
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>>1910833
>>1910835
You are stupid if you think that mango is high tier art. It's a generic overused cheesy and doll art. It's like when handsome artists turn to pony.
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>>1910840
In Japan, stylized art is the thing that sells.

Not only that but Japanese people has grown up with it, thus they generally enjoy drawing it more than westerners.

Basically real art in Japan is mango.
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>>1910837

You don't see boxing of the figure here? You don't see simplification to primitives?

Look, there isn't some mystical Eastern secret technique here. They obviously construct, they obviously observe as well. They just have a different set of priorities and place a greater premium on certain skills.
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>>1910842
stylized art is the thing that sells everywhere..
>>
>>1910846
Not in AAA video game industry where everything needs to look as realistic as possible.
>>
>>1910848
photorealism is also a style
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>>1910851
Am I a style?
Are you a style?

Is this post a style?
>>
>>1910842
complete retarded bullshit


nigga why did you even go through the effort of writing up that made up garbage?
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>>1910837
I think they draw mannequins early on until they're able to pull that off just from imagination. from that point they could just add anatomy to make things looks more believable to a certain extent.

>>1910840
Where the hell did i imply that mango is high tier art? Maybe i poorly wrote my previous post but there's not even a slightest implication of that matter.
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>>1910854
please post a Japanese artist that has never drawn animu or mango.
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>>1910856
Do the whitewashed japs count?
>>
>>1910840
>You are stupid if you think that mango is high tier art.
literally no one implied that
why don't you go ask the artist to change his style based on your opinion
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2D is dead. This is the future.
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>>1910843
I was challenging the method of learning- not the final result. Obviously when it comes to animating, they will simplify the figure regardless of the learning method.

My point was, that this simplification could be stemmed from
1. learning to construct the figure from boxes (by academically learning how to describe the figure with simple forms)
or
2. learning to deconstruct the figure to boxes (by initially learning to draw the clothed figure by rigorous trial and error and simplifying it)

However, Ill withdraw my point here because there is probably no distinction between them and admittedly, I know im only desperately looking for a way to get good quickly.
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>>1910668
so i animated some cubes.
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>>1910732
He's a professional animator.
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>>1910874
Looks terrible. Like some PS3 animu video game.
>>
>>1910874
theres no fun in not drawing it though
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>>1910885
The last two cubes could use some work but otherwise it looks good.
>>
Anyone know know how to approach animation as a complete beginner? I want to learn how to do hand draen animation but i have no idea how. Any guide from the interwebs or a book i could check out?
>>
>>1910926
Animators survival kit has pretty much everything you need to know.
>>
Where do I get this template? >>1910668
Can someone please deliver? Thanks!
>>
>I'm reposting this question here since I might get more pertinent information.

Alright I just started >>1901205 year long fundamentals plan last week. I'm up to the part where they're mirroring planes in Scott's book. I used to actively avoid perspective, but figuring it out has made me enthusiastic about mastering it.

I guess my goal is to get into story art, Vis-Dev would be cool but I'm leaning toward Layout artist or storyboarder since I feel as thought I'm not that great of a "Blue Sky" designer, but would like to direct a story.

Maybe animation as well, but that's a third on my list.

What kind of skill set would I need to pursue these goals?
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>>1910885
another

>>1910899
Thanks, I can see whats wrong with them now i think. One slides too far and the other doesn't bounce enough.
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>>1910950
seconded
>>
>>
>>1910674
you know that /ic/ is welcome to amateurs as well as working to make it.[
>>
>>1910687
visual library is still ref. You don't even want to build a library, by study and life drawin, you think it's magic, and it's sad
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>>1910950
>>1911099
I know that TvPaint has that built in and I wouldn't be surprised if toonboom also hadi t.
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>>1910687
all you need is a wooden figure for the poses. its not that complicated

this is why most animators make clay/3d models of their characters so they can get easy references from all views/perspectives
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>>1910776
this guy is only decent at drawing, his expertise/talent is in seeing timing or animation. Of course he can focus drawing, but it's clear he has an affinity for animation, seeing things move and timing them properly.
>>
>>1911100
and its pretty obvious for this they used one
>>
favorite special effects animator right here
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>>1910776
I've seen animators sketchbooks and life-drawings and I think in terms of fundamentals they're the most strong out of all the arts. It's all intuition. They can feel out how an object can rotate in space or move in perspective naturally.
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>>1911113
and this
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>>1911108
Actually that scene was rotoscoped
>>
>>1911108
nah it's rotoscoped you can clearly see it from the finished scene.
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Bahi is everything i love about anime
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>>1911128
You have to be on drugs to draw this well.
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>>1911120
anyone has the finished scene ?

>>1911128
wow, did you actually do this ? on what software?
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>>1911113
>>1911117
god DAMN, is there a high quality version of this ?
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>>1911152
seriously, no way i could come up with that on my own. maybe im just not that creative

>>1911166
no im not bahi lol. he's a famous key animator from studio bones.
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>>1911128
Fuck I hate bahi. Mainly because he is overrated as shit. He gets insane amounts of praise without actually having that much professional work to show off, and the stuff he has done is not even impressive, it's almost ugly I'd say.
>>
>>1911178
>without actually having that much professional work to show off

he's still relatively new.
I believe he got hired around 2009

>and the stuff he has done is not even impressive
I fully disagree. His key frames are some of the best I've seen. Very full of life considering he only does the key frames. If it had proper inbetweens then it'd probably blow my mind.

> it's almost ugly
Some people like slow and realistic animation. Some like extremely exaggerated. I dont think its ugly at all
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>>1911178
I swear every time there is an animation thread someone always brings up Bahi and then someone starts hating on him.
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>>1911174
oh ty.

>>1911170
Would you know what software he uses ? can't find it.
>>
for those using photoshop to animate, how do you color in your frames?

Fill bucket? For that to work, my lines would need to be non-anti alias. However when I look at other people's line art, it looks much better than anything the pencil tool could produce.

is there something im missing?
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>>1911099
the fuck m8? Who would want to animate this?
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>>1911122
Oh shit son, I got a hard on.

>24 drawings for a walk cycle
coolio
>>
>>1911201
>he doesnt know about guro fetish people

Its sick and repulsive
>>
I still think 2d animation is one of the hardest drawing-related fields to be decent in.

You need to know everything a painter knows, and then put it in motion
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>>1911115
In my animation 1 class we had to do around 100 life drawing poses each week, on top of animation assignments.

its just that much of an essential skill. you usually wont get the luxury of spending +10 minutes on a single frame
>>
>>1911210
Not the other anon, but I am so intoxicated with animators and animation that I am studying them to create drawings that "move."
I think its why I love doujin more than western porn
>>
>>1911184
I like exaggerated animation as well, but he doesn't do exaggerated and fast animation well at all. I don't like how he smears, it's ugly and often completely unnecessary to convey the motion. I don't like how his characters bounce around so much, they look like their bones were replaced with jelly. They also twitch a lot. I don't like how inconsistent his drawings are, his shapes and forms look very inconsistent to me.

To me it looks like Bahi lacks all the basic skills and knowledge that an animator should have. You know, shit that you learn if you actually went to an animation school instead of learning to animate by watching anime sakugas on youtube and copying those.

Lets take some other animator as an example. How about Yoh Yoshinari? He is also someone who often does very fast paced scenes, but the difference between him and Bahi is that his drawings are consistent and the movement looks smooth.

>he's still relatively new.
>I believe he got hired around 2009
and that's probably why he is so overrated. Every weeaboo lost their shit when a non-japanese animator was making himself a name in the industry. "living the dream" like people say. People who know shit about animation praise him because he is the only animator they actually know of.
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>>1911194
>For that to work, my lines would need to be non-anti alias

http://www.psoft.co.jp/jp/product/antialiasing/ps.html
http://www.olm.co.jp/rd/technology/tools/?lang=en
>>
>>1911099
>>1910950
http://www.aja.gr.jp/data/digital_aja_layout.php

Or just take 5 minutes to make your own template in Photoshop.
>>
>>1911122
I cant find the secret sauce yo
>>
wj23_nDFSfE
>>
>>1911217
It's because he's marked as "prodigy" for being able to enter the industry without even working 1-2 years as trainee.

And he speaks english.
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Sasuga Bahi-kun.
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>>1911323
>>
>>1911328
Why is he using English when he's in a japanese studio?
>>
I've been fooling around using gimp to make gifs. Are there any other inexpensive options? Photoshop is kind of pricey.
>>
>>1911339
>Photoshop is kind of pricey
I don't think I know a single person that has purchased adobe software.

pirate that shit like everyone else
>>
>>1910842
Please stop.

http://char.txa.cornell.edu/nonwest/japan/japanhis.htm
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Can I get some pointers on what I'm doing wrong? >i realize the details don't stay together
Is it just the consistency?
>>
>>1911346
>works from home doing animation
>doesnt ever need to leave his house
>gets paid well

damn now that's the dream.
i wish i had such skill
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>>1911345
make the guy simpler
>>
>>1911345
what is he supposed to be doing? it seems like he's taking a bite out of an invisible subway
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>>1911354
He is trying to convey anger. I guess I didn't get that across.
>>
>>1911346
He went to Japan to work on Dandy for a few months.
>>
>>1911348
>gets paid well
>in anime industry
HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA

Without his parents' financial support, Bahi will probably die.
>>
>>1911359
>>1911362
seriously? mind ball parking how much you think he makes yearly?

surely it has to be over 50k(which would be fine to me)

If it's below 30k, then I can see why nobody wants to work in the industry. That work requires some serious skill.
>>
>>1911192
>Would you know what software he uses ? can't find it.

MOTHERFUCKING FLASH!
can you believe it? he's hella good
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>>1911367
In-house animator gets paid around this
>>
>>1911376
Whoops not bahi but it was for normal animators in japan. Sry, Bahi's a freelancer, btw.
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>>1911376
Wow, that's real shitty pay... they must be living in poverty.
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>>1911367
>surely it has to be over 50k
Only a chief animation director makes that much.

Average key animator makes around 20k a year.
They get paid 4000 yen for a cut.
Bahi animated less than 30 cuts in Space Dandy.
Do the math.
source: http://www.janica.jp/survey/2009symposium_rundown.pdf
>>
>>1911379
if you watched the anime, you'll notice nearly all of them are living in very small shitty apartments

no way in hell would I be doing that type of work when animators in america get paid nearly double
>>
>>1911376
>>1911367
>>1911377
>>1911378

Guys if you're interested in what it's like to work as an animator in Japan listen to this podcast interview with Aya Suzuki -

http://thepegbarandgrill.com/podcasts/episode-4-aya-suzuki/

Bahi's even mentioned at one point.
>>
>>1911378
He went back to Japan again after that interview.
>>
>>1911378
>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2014-04-16/the-space-dandy/part-ii-bahi-jd
Wow, i don't know that he got this much attention even from ANN. I guess that's why weebs are wet all over him.
>>
>>1911383
Cool, do you have more something like this?
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>>1911376
What is an "Animator"? Are they not the ones doing the key frames..or you know, the actual bulk of the work? 9,400 is lower than fucking working at walmart. How can a professional job that requires such skill be so shitty?

I'm guessing the college student is an intern doing animation?

What is Part-timer then?

The rest seem about right. CG animator is basically minimum wage still though
>>
>>1911376
and people wonder why there's communism
>>
>>1911391
Did you miss his live drawing event he did while he's still in Japan?
http://bahijd.tumblr.com/post/94735609555/talk-and-live-paint-event-with-mebae-jnthed
>>
>>1911413
I was there. I couldn't even hear a damn thing.
>>
Bahi did an AMA on an IRC channel in August.
I'll post some of his answers that are related to the thread.

<g***> Can you even stay in Japan as a freelance animator
<(Bahi)> g*** Yes, there is also a system where you can be a freelancer with similar contract to employees.
<g***> Interesting
<(Bahi)> But freelancing is hard in japan, but that's not news.
<k****> do you earn enough to sustain yourself?
<(Bahi)> Let's say, it's not easy.
<(Bahi)> but I don't mind, I think it's alright when you are young.
<(Bahi)> it's probably harder for older animators that are in their 30s, 40s.
<(Bahi)> this is young animator life.
<(Bahi)> I mean for older animators that want to get married and have a family, it's better to be an employee.

<g***> What will you do if you can't get any work for a while
<g***> Do you have another way of getting income
<(Bahi)> Do personal work, which I really would like to do too.
<g***> Or savings?
<(Bahi)> And do illustrations.
<g***> Ah, I guess you can always get some money as an artist
<(Bahi)> But there is always work though.

<C******> how do you actually get to work on a project tho
<C******> do you approach a producer
<C******> or does one approach you
<(Bahi)> It's automatic
<(Bahi)> when you do your first work, things just come on their own.
<H*******> Automatic?
<(Bahi)> Producers know all animators
<(Bahi)> as soon as a new name pops up, they will check it out.
<l**> what would it take for a foreign animator to get checked out by japanese producers
<(Bahi)> First you have to approach on your own.
<H*******> So, you contact the studios, begging for work?
<(Bahi)> But not "begging" though
>>
>>1911099
Absolutely disgusting.
>>
>>1911419
Do you have a link to the whole ama?
>>
>>1911383
>apply for in-betweening work
>got hired by Satoshi Kon
I'm legitimately jealous of her.
>>
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>>1911419
>But not "begging" though
>>
>>1911424
I have the logs but I won't post them all because PRIVACY.

>>1911428
>How do you deduct from that post that he went back and worked for a few months?
I didn't deduct from that post.
He said on that he spent the summer in Japan.

Also, people asked him in the AMA.
He's working at studio Bones at that time.
>>
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>>1910885
I added an asploshion
>>
>>1911438
Okay. I fucked up.
He didn't work there.
Sorry.
>>
>animation thread
>only 2 people posted their own works
>got ignored
>animators cock-sucking

What's the fucking point of making this thread on /ic/?
>>
>>1911345
Seriously, learn to draw first.
>>
>>1911454
You can learn to draw while animating.
>>
>>1911448
>implying animating took only 30 minutes - 1 hour.
>>
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>>1911440
oh now we are talking. but can you add tits to one of the boxes? you know practice overlapping and stuff...
>>
>>1911455
Can't wait to see your progress.
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>>1911455
But you can't animate if you don't know how to draw.
>>
>>1911383
>Animators in japan tend to be generalists and then specialized in something they are more interested to get into.
Interesting.
>>
>>1911443
What irc channel server is this AMA from?
>>
>>1911475
Is it that hard to guess?
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It is for me, don't know about that guy.
>>
>140posts
>only 2 were actual users

i think you guys scared everyone off
>>
>>1911510
that image doesn't make sense, surely blacks are afraid of ghosteses not ghosteses themselves
>>
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>you'll never be as good as bahi

why even try
>>
>>1911519
Does it even matter? Why be that good when you'll only be making a below average salary.
>>
>>1911519
Pros don't even consider him as that good.

>>1911520
It's all about money right?
>>
>>1911521
>Pros don't even consider him as that good
How do you know?
Are you a pro?
>>
>>1911523
>How do you know?
Do you even read this fucking goddamn thread? How long have you been on animation thread? This has been discussed over and over again since 2 months ago.
>Are you a pro?
No, i aim to be one, but the Pros who've been in the industry have mentioned that.

Bahi is overrated, people who've been sucking his dick is just either muh entry-level 17-18 yo sakuga enthusiast who barely draw shit and browse /a/ all the time, their eyes aren't good enough to judge shit and consider boing-boing high-speed jell-o bones sakuga action is godly as fuck.
>>
>>1911529
Hi /ic/, being jealous again, huh?
>>
>>1911479
ya
>>
>>1911539
jesus whats with this influx of self important noobs lately
>>
>>1911529
>Do you even read this fucking goddamn thread?
And are the posters in the thread "pro"?

>but the Pros who've been in the industry have mentioned that
Source?

>i aim to be one
With that attitude, you'll never be one.
>>
>>1911097
That made me laugh out. I think you could give the speeding frisbee more screentime, maybe make it fly even lower ? That would enhance its "punch".
>>
>>1911529
actually, the only kind of people who always try to convince others how bad someone else is are jelly little noobs like you. I have never seen a good professional do that kind of thing, not in animation or any other artform. A good artist will say "The guy is pretty good at that boing-boing high-speed stuff, maybe I could even learn a thing or two from that!"

a shit tier amateur such as yourself will say: "HURRR HE SUCKS STOP LIKING THIS GUY'S WORK, ALL THE PROS HATE HIM" And that is reason 12342345 why you will never make it.
>>
Bahu
>>
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chinese_cartoon.webm
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>>
>>1911174
what anime is this form damn?
>>
>>1911654
If you don't already know, then you don't deserve to know.

How's life under a rock?
>>
>>1911551
>And are the posters in the thread "pro"?
>Source?
Like i said, read the thread carefully and check the links that were given in this thread. Your lack of attention is just evidence that you only came here to shitpost.

>With that attitude, you'll never be one.
Like those words matter to me.

>>1911603
That professional blurted out "Who's that animator from austria again? Bahi? yes, Bahi, He's not really that good".

Listen, if you've been here from the last few threads you must've knew that keyword "Bahi" always ends up derailing the thread, previous thread as i recall was a good one since his dicksucking ends early.

>post animation, talk animation, discuss animation

Does posting "all i ever love about anime, is Bahi JD yoyoyo" "How could i be good as him" "i'm surprised you could still maintain your sanity after making that animating a scene like that" "17 years fucking old Bahi ladies and gentlemen, 17 years fucking old! there's no hope for me to work as animator" counts? you could just at least create a new thread just to worship him. /ic/ did that with Jaime Jones, Mullins, and any other artists. or ffs just create a thread to worship some animators in general.

or my advice, make that thread on /a/ since no one will get mad if you create that thread over there, in fact, you will meet more like-minded people that also fascinated by his prodigious talent, there'll also a little chance for you to meet people that consider him as overrated and went vocal about it.
>>
>>1911654
Boku no Pico
>>
>>1911683
What link?
The only link that has professional animators talking about bahi is this one
http://thepegbarandgrill.com/podcasts/episode-4-aya-suzuki/

And she said "Let's face it, he's good".
>>
>>1911695
>>1911683
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they praise him?
http://a.pomf.se/flpsmc.mp3

>>There's an Iranian guy or something who...
>Aya: Bahi
>>Where's he base?
>Aya: He's in Austria
>>He works digitally and he works for Japan, right?
>Aya: Yeah
>>They'd think he's..... (not sure what he said here)
>Aya: I mean, a lot of studio has started accept it
>>I guess as you said they're looking for people, they need people so
>Aya: Yes, and he's good. Let's face it, he's brilliant so...
>>Yes he's amazing
>Aya: It's a cost that studios will be willing to pay for if they can provide the work.
>>
>>1911683
I know this has been the problem from the past couple of threads.

The way to stop shitposting is just by simply contributing your content to thread, anon. It'll eventually dry out and we'll have a decent conversation here. I think that's why we can have a pretty decent discussion in the previous thread.

Or just filter that word, works like a charm for me.
>>
>>1910823
So is Jin Roh rotoscoped?
I've seen people argue against both.
I thought it was when I first saw it, but now that people have brought it up I'm kinda curios.
>>
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Professional artists admire Bahi?
Please call the animation police!
http://akill-blazard.blogspot.ca/2013/09/some-people.html
https://twitter.com/honnyaku_blog/status/404273688020656128
https://twitter.com/leseanthomas/status/531688856886591488
https://twitter.com/Thomasintokyo/status/460959938605371392
https://twitter.com/cindy560a/status/536048214818844672
https://twitter.com/sekise10/status/366561598522925056
>>
>>1911714
>so is Jin Roh rotoscoped?

If I ever... EVER saw your face, I'd slap you. Learn what animation means before you talk. Learn what rotoscoping means before you fucking talk. Learn what referening means before you talk. Learn who animated what cuts before you talk. Okiura and Inoue does NOT rotoscope, they just know how the fuck people move. People who thinks Jin Roh is rotoscoped should stop pretending to know, because of how fucking casual they are. Please don't post this ever again.

10/10 is mad.
>>
>>1911714
Of course.
No one can make an animation that realistic.
>>
>>1911376
on the note of animator's salary, in the sony hack a survey of what they get paid got released:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B_VQJLPibbABYjjh12Ce4QQMVxkq1S4a7sBuKXDTq7s/htmlview?sle=true#gid=1255808547
>>
>>1911719
>Jin-Roh had amazing animation, but on close inspection you realize that a lot of the human figures aren't strictly animated, but are in fact rotoscoped (traced over live action footage). Some people take exception to this technique, but I feel it worked brilliantly in this film. The scenes of Kei were often devastating, simply because she moved exactly as a real girl would. It accentuated the terror when you saw the Special Unit marching in, ready to deal out instant death.
http://www.mania.com/jinroh-special-edition_article_81487.html

That said, nothing wrong with rotoscope.
Stop getting so defensive.
>>
>>1911715
Hahaha damn, I want to drink the tears of the anti-bahifags.
>>
>>1911727
>By: Dan Kuhn

Just because someone on the internet says anything, it does not mean that it's true. Please remember this.

I've read interviews with Inoue where he talks about how people tend to mistake his work in Jin Roh for rotoscoped.

Just read the comments in that shady "MY OPINIAN ON JIN RAH" you linked.

"Jin Roh does NOT use any rotoscoping for the realistic human animation. Director Hiroyuki Okiura, whose speciality it is to do such realistic work, claims as much in his interviews on the R2 special edition box set. The very extensive behind the scenes features in this box set do not contradict his claim, showing no form of live action involved in the animation.

As an animator, I have to say your "close inspection" is flawed. On close inspection, the motion is very clearly NOT rotoscoped, though it might appear as such at first glance. Watch a Ralph Bakshi film like American Pop, and you will see that the difference between rotoscoped animation, and what Okiura does, in Jin Roh and all his other works, is quite apparent."

PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF.
>>
>>1911715
>[Q&A session]
>Q,Could you name the young animator that you remarkable most?
>Ohira:hmm... If I have to mention, Bahi JD.
He deserves this, i can't wait to see how his skill turns out in the next 3-4 years.
>>
Did this for exams in a subject. Even though there's a little weak overall animation, I think I still managed to pull off a good one minute of animation by myself.

https://vimeo.com/113502085
>>
>>1911760
>This is my exam in 3D art

But why is it 2D?
>>
>>1911767
It was projected onto an object in real life. that's where the "3D" comes from. Everyone in my class was dissapointed when the teachers dropped 3d sculpting and stuff, and came up with this "modern art" stuff.
>>
can someone answer me this for once, how in the hell do you draw traditionally on flash ?

I see all those professional animators drawing so naturally on flash, and yet when I open mine, I have two or three sizes of a shitty brush and every line seem clunky as hell. anyone can advice me something ? are there add-ons or something for flash ?
>>
>>1911719
Sorry, I didn't mean to get you riled up.
Thanks for at least answering my question
>>
>>1911797
Read the older threads.
But because you seem to be devoid of anything that can faintly remind one of intelligence, here:

>Select Brush tool
>Set smoothing on 0%
>Turn on pen Pressure
>draw, and stop asking retarded questions on /ic/
>>
>>1911454
>Oh gee thanks for the help there buddy.
>I sure will get right on that helpful piece of advice
>>
>>1911806
ty and you're right, knowing that precious information is a definite proof of your superior cognitive ability
>>
>>1911822
Oh please, you flatter me! It's not a proof of my superior intelligence, no no! It just shows where you stand. But I will take it as a compliment.
>>
>>1911797
>brush
Use pencil tool like any other sane person.
>>
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>>1911828
so what do I do now, seems like your holy advice didn't do much for me, can you try to enlighten this dark soul of mine ?
>>
>>1911806
The problem with the brush is that the pen width scales depending on how zoomed in you are. The pencil tool remains the same.
Also at the bottom of the toolbar turn pencil mode to ink mode, not smooth or straight.
>>
>>1911841
That's still pen tool :^)

>>1911860
Yeah, that annoys me with the brush aswell. The pen-tool is cool to use, but it's literally hell when it comes to colouring. There might be holes in your lines because of how flash reads input from your mouse/tablet, even though there are no visible holes on the canvas. I used pen-tool some before, but it only works against you if you want to colour anything.

I remember changing settings on the pen tool to make it less retarded, but I can't remember where I found it. Still. Brush tool is objectively best.
>>
>>1911864
For coloring pencil tool lines with the paintbucket you can set it to "close large gaps". It works so much better then.
>>
>>1911613
>each part has a different count to make one scene

cool
>>
>>1911760
thats pretty cool, what software did you use?
>>
>>1910833
>three question marks
>>
>>1911905
>>1911909
>>1911924
Are you mentally okay?
>>
>>1912036
But that is what I've been saying all along. Using reference is essential if you want to achiev realistic animation. There's nothing bad about referencing.

What IS wrong, is when people like several of you guys thinks that Aku no Hana looks the same as Jin Roh. It does NOT. You guys should watch the sakuga conference.
>>
>>1912068
example?
>>
>>1912241
>You can tell in a show where they left thier footprint without ever seeing the credits.

This is definitely not the case for Jin Roh. Outside of the effects animation cuts by Yoh Yoshinari and Toshiyuki Inoue, anyone would be hard-pressed to tell who did what in Hiroyuki Okiura's films.
>>
>>1911085
bumping this question just once in hope of reply.
>>
>>1910874
its not tho.
there will always be a demand for traditional.
always
>>
>>1912036
>>1912068

Please provide sources for what you keep pulling out of your ass. An anon making claims like that doesn't carry much weight.
>>
>>1911323
looks like a normal x-sheet?
>>
>>1911613
fucking disgusting
>>
>>1912384
It's common sense. There's no way someone can do realistic animation without having to use reference footage at the very least.
>>
>>1911613
It's not Bahi, just a guy that's copying him.

Even so, I too, am thrown off by the flailing. It looks like Bahi is a little uncomfortable with "normal" swift character animation, and it really shows in that Dandy cut he did with that mustache monster. It's acceptable as animation, and it creates chaos, but it's not structured chaos, just "noise".
>>
>>1912434
>"use reference footage at the very least"

That's not what >>1912068 said.
>"Some will go so far as to turn the reference into a template"
>"And some animator become so synonymous with a templated shot that's all they ever do"
I guess he's referring to Okiura or Inoue in this case, and that's not the case.
>>
>>1912435
Do you know which guy? I'm interested to see his other stuff.
>>
>>1912434
Don't you mean there's no way YOU could do realistic animation without having to use reference footage? There are many artists in this world who can do things you could never imagine, because they are better at their craft than you will ever be.
>>
>>1912454
>animation is for weebs

Go away, shitter.
>>
Japanese animators can't do realistic animation without refs.
>>
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>>1912459
>Western artists can't to any type of animation without refs.

And just in case you are too much of a moron to notice, I'm being sarcastic here. Both western and japanese artists can animate perfectly fine without reference, they just use refs because it's faster and easier and animation is all about making things easier and more efficient to lower production costs.

You really need to learn to draw and stop being so dependant on references if you ever want to make it as an animator.
>>
How could this thread derailed again worse than ever before?
>>
>>1912475
Post tits.
>>
>>1912475
Because these threads are per definition, shit. These threads should probably not be on /ic/. It's just a bunch of wannabes that want to admire animators.
>>
>>1912549
It seems to me that typically there are people who want to talk more about animators and the industry. Ideally a separate thread should probably be made for work, since these fill up so quickly with discussion.

It kind of worked with the animation studies thread, but I don't remember if it died from lack of posts or if it got filled and died, so there's that.
>>
>>1912553
*more people who want to talk about animators -- is what I should have said, but yeah, every animation thread other than that one mostly has been filled with posts about software and arguments about B.JD and pictures of anime scenes.

On another note, I'm making an image of software with it's pros and cons because it always comes up. So far I have these listed:

TVPaint, Flash, ToonBoom, Pencil (free), Synfig (free), EasyToon (free)

Are there any that I'm missing that are typically used here?
>>
>>1910837
> drawing boxes in perspective, rendering spheres, learning anatomy by breaking it down to simple cylinders and boxes etc.

silly anon
when you are very good at a thing for a long time
you don't plan carefully, you just do it with instinct or reflex
do you think of grammar when speaking English? Of course not
>>
>>1912555
I use hanepen, it's a great free one for mac users.
>>
>>1912702
Oh my god, thank you so fucking much for this. It's just what I have been looking for. I used to love easytoon when I had a pc and now that I'm on mac I was missing it, but this is a perfect replacement, I'd say it's even better. Such simple and intuitive controls.
>>
>>1911122
bruh quit playin, I need sauce
>>
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>>1912807
Wow check out the creator's twitter, he has some serious skills!!

https://twitter.com/cii__
>>
>>1911174
Why the fuck are they picking up the chips, they're outside. What, is she gonna eat those dirty mud chips now?
>>
>>1912850
They're not chips, they're some sort of cookies wrapped in plastic, please take a closer look.
>>
>>1910837
I don't know what you're talking about anon. Vilppu and Scott Robertson are probably the best people to learn from when it comes to fundamentals because they help put you in the right mindset for understanding how forms work. Frankly, I don't think it's possible to have an understanding of forms unless you lean it from a bottom up approach. People have been trying to draw from pure observation for centuries and they never even came close to the level people were at once the rules of perspective were discovered.
>>
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>>1912835
It looks wobble at that framerate.
>>
>>1910712
pretty slow for a cat
not luxurious moving or jerky cat like movements
nice form tho
>>
>>1912835
Nope.
Looks like they're just tweening keyframes.
>>
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Heres a gif from my freshman animation final. I just started a 3-4 months ago, what do you guys think?
>>
>>1913074
Too many frames for such simple actions. Also lacks many of the principals of animation. You gotta remember those.
>>
I skimmed through the thread and I didn't see an answer, so forgive me for the dumb question: aside from Flash, what are some decent applications for amateur animating?
>>
>>1913074
On top of >>1913084, your art skills are very poor. Normally I believe that you can still animate without being a master draftsman, but you have to at least have consistency in your character.
>>
Has anyone here used monkey jam?

Is it only good for pencil tests or can it be used for doing colored sequences?
>>
>>1911613
The guy who did this shit is a right out bahi stalker, i refrain from contributing to the bahi conversation in these threads but this guy creeps me out.
>>
>>1913131
Who is the creepy bahi copier guy. Do you have a link to his stuff?
>>
Tweening keyframes that they also drew! I'm just impressed that he can animate at all. Usually software programmers can't draw for shit.
>>
>>1913091
Didn't skim hard enough son.
>>
>>1913147
meant to reply to
>>1913013
>>
>>1913148
Nobody posted anything about software here.
>>
>>1913156
Yes, they have.
>>
>>1913145
Is there a way to use the blending options so that PNGs have transparent backgrounds instead of projecting black?
>>
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>>1912702
>>1912807
That's good to know! If you guys could make things that you like and dislike about the program, that would be great, I don't have a Mac to test it out myself.

For now this is what I have, not the prettiest though. I tried looking around for pros/cons, but I still need to flesh it out a bit. How is it looking folks? Anything I should add or remove? I'm considering on removing Synfig, but I don't know.
>>
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this is fucking gold here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a54UB7PpLKM
>>
>>1913186
is hanepen for mac only?
>>
>>1913186
oh I didn't see the icons, forget it
>>
>>1910668
>>1910712
>>1910884
What software shoul I use to make animations like these? Nothing to fancy
>>
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>>1913270
Can you read the thread before asking questions as these? There is a guy who made a list that caters perfectly to people who have trouble finding software. Instead of spamming with retarded questions every thread, try to contribute instead.
>>
>>1913279
you could've just answered the question
>>
>>1913282
>spoonfeeding retards when the question is replied to several times in every single thread
>>
>>1913147
This program is also being developed by an animator
http://animationpaper.com/
>>
>>1913283
this is the first time I visit this thread. Also, naming one software is spoodfeeding?
>>
>>1910884
holy shit how do you do it?
>>
>>1913186
Add Tupi and PAP 4.0
>>
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quick silhouette thing.
>>
>>1913287
There is literally a list of animation software 4 posts above the question.
>>
>>1913437
I like it. The only thing I could suggest is maybe give him little reaction from the step forward, or from the swing of the sword. He stops dead after those actions. He wields the sword as if it is as light as paper. Also the blood(?) spray from the ball appears to be moving vertically but the cut was horizontal. The blood spray should follow the direction of the cut.
>>
>>1913458
I didn't complete the motion, but I guess he'd take another step forward.

The juices from the fruit, I agree completely on.
>>
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I did this but I was a moron and didn't notice was drawing the feet off frame. Is there a way to move all the drawings simultaneously or do I have to do it one by one?
>>
>>1913854
That's pretty cool.
I love the way he shift the weight between legs.

>Is there a way to move all the drawings simultaneously or do I have to do it one by one?
What software do you use?
If it's flash, you can just resize the canvas.
>>
reddit actually has a goldmine animation sub.

Some of the users are highly talented. And they find some cool shit. They have a bunch of nice tutorials on there. I request you overlook the reddit thing in this case because there aren't that many strong animation communities. And the subreddit gets some pretty good hits. Hell if you're looking for exposure, you should definitely post you work there too.
>>
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>>1913877
Posting more flipbooks.
>>
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>>
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>>
>>1913877
It's not even colored
>>
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>>1913562
Thanks for the feedback!

How many categories do you think there should be? What do you think would be the best way of organizing it?
--
I thought about adding links, but I figured these were all easily searchable on things like Google. Do you think I should add them? Is there a reason why searching for the software's name isn't as efficient?

--
I didn't invent any new terms, I think. TVPaint for example says on their site that:

>TVPaint Animation is a 2D software based on bitmap technology.

Do you think using the term raster would be easier to understand? Should I use both terms?

--

Regarding research and the like, the reason that it only lists a limited amount of software is because those are the ones that are mentioned often enough in these types of threads. I will admit I'm not the best at it though, so I'm relying on other people in this thread to catch any mistakes I've made.

The Pros/Cons are actually feedback that's been posted before too (except some of it, like the .gif thing). I don't think c&p the entire feature set from each program would be effective, which is why I looked back and saw what users here said about them when recommending them.

I am still fleshing it out though, I'll make sure to skim though each site again so I don't miss anything. Is there anything in specific that you think should be mentioned? How would you make it?

I did see a ton of more software recommended on other sites, but I don't know how much better or worse they are, which is why I'm just going off what I've seen mentioned. If you have any recommendations though, I would be glad to add them.

On that note, >>1913316
Thanks for letting me know about these two, I've added them to the thing and have also made the OS icons bigger.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EftIAMsVKgk
>>
>>1913854
If it's flash you can just use the "edit multiple frames" option next to the onion skin, have all the frames highlighted/bracketed, and then drag a selection box around all the art. wait for your computer to maybe be annoyed. then shift+up arrow everything
>>
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I made this today. Going to bed with disappointment i suppose. Dem drapery is tricky.
>>
>>1910874
What is?
>>
>>1911622
why is this so perfect
japanese people are just so fucking masterful at everything
all that is left is to humbly bow at the master race
>>
>>1910888
>>1913942
>don't know about GG
And new generation was born
>>
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>>1913963
It's animated by a Chinese animator, actually.
>>
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Just trying to get some pencil mileage for now. Any recommended exercises?
>>
>>1914014
www.animatorisland.com/51-great-animation-exercises-to-master/

This is the one I see around the most, that and the exercises from Richard Williams Animator's Survival Kit.

From what I remember hearing, most places/people will always want to see your bouncing ball / walk cycles because it showcases what animating is mostly about (timing + squash and stretch). I might be remembering wrong though. Those two are still good either way
>>
>>1913963
It's called practicing, you fucking weeaboo.

Same reason why so many Chinese digital painters are the Gods of rendering.
>>
>>1914027
Reading Richard Williams now. Walks are too hard for me. I can't figure out how to draw without perspective.
>>
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older stuff
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>1914101
newer stuff
>>
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>>
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>>
I have Retas in Japanese, is it possible to make it English?
>>
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Stuff of the four-legged variety is a little difficult. >>1914027

Any critiques with this before I add more to it? (wings and face)

I think the tail may be a little stiff, and the body seems to stretch a bit between its hips. Mane is a little inconsistent, too.
>>
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>I'm not a robot

Godspeed.
>>
>>1914101
Look at some LM nigga
>>
>>1914289
It looks like his torso/spine is stretching. try to keep the distance between where the legs start consistent.
>>
>>1914101
I like this one a lot
>>
>>1913963
But it's not very well-animated at all

Maybe you're confusing your boner quality with animation quality
>>
>>1914368
LM? Like Loomis cause the arms are short?
>>1914474
Thanks
>>
>>1910668
>How long does it take to animate this many frames?
>>
>>1914883
Something simple that's that number of frames would be about a day if you work nonstop.
Taking into account the complexity, at least 3 days of nonstop work.
Now, taking into account human concerns. A 10 second animation like this one would take about a week of hard work. But to put it into perspective, the Looney Tunes animators had to produce 10 seconds of animation minimum on a weekly basis. But their effect animation was much simpler.
>>
>>1915032
>atleast 3 days of nonstop work

The animator is experienced, I'd say about 8-10 hours work.
>>
I would use flash if the brush engine wouldn't suck so hard
>>
>>1913921
While I suppose it's technically hard to animate, shit like this just feels like the death of animation to me.
Why the fuck is this so popular? People flying through the air, fighting with retarded, supernatural power, with missiles flying all around while the camera goes berserk. There is so much of this, it's all the same and it's incredibly boring to watch.
It's style over substance, without the style.
>>
>>1915117
If you're really that eager to know why don't you create a new thread for that discussion?
>>
File: JB Milt Kahl.gif (3MB, 270x360px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
JB Milt Kahl.gif
3MB, 270x360px
>>1915117
It's probably the same reason why superheroes/action and the like are so popular. In real life you can't/don't really see any of these things at all, so it's cool when these kinds of scenes show up.

What kind of animation do you prefer?
>>
So I've got of a stupid question but...
I'm kind of a beginner, I understand from, perspective and start to try and learn some real anatomy, but I'm still just past pure beginner : can I try to learn to animate simple things as I learn to draw, or is this not a good idea?
>>
>>1915117
You sound like that fucking idiot from that one picture whining that the ass of that overwatch girl wasn't artistic enough for him.
>>
>>1913942
Guilty gear Xrd
>>
>>1915418
Both, but put more emphasis on the realism.
There's a strong mindset around here where everyone starts with the fundamentals and builds up their ability to draw realistically, then dumbs it down into cartoons. That's not the best mindset, and if you already know you want to animate, you might as well train it while you learn to draw.
>>
>>1915418
I would say that you can learn how to draw and animate at the same time. You're just adding more things to learn about at the same time (timing, etc).

If you waited until you were super good at everything, you probably wouldn't be animating for a ton of years. Animating is just (usually) drawing a bunch of pictures in the first place, so I don't think it would hurt any.

If you can't draw but want to animate, there's no reason why you couldn't learn how to animate 3D models either. That's becoming the standard these days too, so someone who's interested in joining the animation business should be learning 2D and 3D unless they want to specifically stay in one niche.
>>
i am getting used to animating on wide aspect ratios like 2.35:1 (widely used on movies, not pun intended) because it gives me better focus on drafts for some reason, anyone doing something they have never before when it comes to animating?
>>
Animator in the industry here, ask me questions and Ill answer them as honestly as possible.
>>
>>1914100
This is almost good, but she should bend her knees before jumping.
>>
>>1915612
what films you worked on?
>>
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>>
>>1915620
A couple of Marvel movies and lots of video games. And some movies with Joseph Gordon Levitt.
>>
>>1915622
so you're 3d animator then? are there plenty of work for one doing specifically in 2d?
>>
>>1915631
I do both, just to get enough work out here. Theres plenty of 2D work as well, you just have to know the right people and get into the industry. 3D is a tough industry though, lots of jobs have gone overseas to China, India, Singapore, Canada, etc.. because of subsidies.
>>
>>1915612
Where are you located and should someone interested in getting a job in the industry be moving there/to an animation "hub sort of place?
Or is location becoming less relevant with telecommuting and the internet?
>>
>>1915659
Best places in the states are Los Angeles (for film and commercials), San Francisco (for mobile app/fb game type of work), and there are a few companies spread out. Bluesky is out in Connecticut, DreamWorks has offices in the SF Bay area, LA, India and China. Blizzard is around somewhere. Just do a google search for which industry you want to work in and look at the biggest saturation of companies within one area. Youre gonna need all those companies once your 3 month contract is up and you have a year lease on your apartment. My advice, either stick 100000% with it and completely forget you have a social life, or do it as a hobby. It's a pretty unstable industry. At least from my experience.
>>
>>1911523
I have yet to see something that
he himself has created, aside from your 1min ~ 5min animations or demo reels.

A 15min animated short made by him.
Maybe then he can be criticized or "judged".
>>
>>1915612
2D or 3D?
How important is the formal education in the animation industry?
>>
>>1911380
Yeah, but keep in mind that Japans
Anime industry is saturated like the
Graphic/Web Design field in the USA.
>>
>>1914506
what is considered "well animated" for you then
because if you mean having "silky smooth 24fps" you know nothing about animation
>>
>>1910874
the problem is never the demand
the problem is those who demanded are usually unwilling to pay and instead go to Nyaa
>>
>>1915666
Thank you, I appreciate you responding! So all work will be contract work? I figured people who were in a big studio would just be moved to other projects once the one they were working on wrapped up.

I am happy with my minimal social life as it is. I'm going to go all in.
>>
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>>1916275
some shitty but really fun easytoon gifs i just made
>>
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>>1916554
whoops didn't mean to reply
>>
>>1916554
Don't really know what's happening but push the expressions further!
>>
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>>1916595
okay will do that next
>>
File: Untitled.gif (270KB, 1105x870px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>>
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>>1916703
reference
>>
guys, check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnSdi7YEeXU
>>
>>1916703
i really enjoy your work man
>>
>>1916710
>rotoscope
>>
>>1911760
Oh i remember
Youre the guy that posted in the last thread
But only with the cat and the window sketches
Amd i commented how the cat seems didnt land on the ground
>>
>>1917165
Yeah, that's me.
I animated the cat on a different file, and then put it all together with a proper background.
As a side-note, I fucked up the perspective, you can see the roof and the tables on the inside have different perspective, but I had to break it to make it work.
>>
>>1917118
>talking shit about god Hiroyuki Okiura
google his work faggot, none of it is rotoscope, you're just jelly
>>
>>1917374
>taking the bait.
Next time when that word was mentioned, people should just ignore that.
>>
File: how-i-draw.gif (77KB, 480x360px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Here's a thing I just made on toonboom
>>
>>1918023
how do you make gifs from toonboom?
>>
What type of computer do you guys recommend for animating?
Thread posts: 322
Thread images: 73


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