Before Roman Empire embraced Christianity, how common was gay

Common enough that Julius Ceasar was once known as the Queen of Bythnia for his role as a power bottom.

Ubiquitous, though catching was generally viewed as being for sissies.

>>993641
>all you have to do to fix your reputation is publicly top someone in the marketplace
Truly a utopia

>>993631
Bibulus pls go

>>993603
There wasn't gay sex, in the modern sense of the word.
It was just sex. You should better made damn sure you are the penetrating party, though.

>>993631
>hearsay and unproven rumors made up by his enemies are now historical fact

>>993631
I'm at this part in Masters of Rome. Sounds like you want to be put up on some cabinet m8.

>>993603
You would feel at home.

>>993674
This. Homosexuality as it's currently defined is a modern concept.

Being the top wasn't considered gay. It was masculine. And it was fully expected for young men to be the feminine role in their youth and then graduate to the masculine role as they got older.

But ultimately it was very rare for a man to solely be with other males and it was generally looked down upon for a grown man to play the feminine role.

>>994411
>This. Homosexuality as it's currently defined is a modern concept.
>Being the top wasn't considered gay. It was masculine. And it was fully expected for young men to be the feminine role in their youth and then graduate to the masculine role as they got older.
>But ultimately it was very rare for a man to solely be with other males and it was generally looked down upon for a grown man to play the feminine role.

So, every adult man had a reamed asshole, then.

>>994519
Thats very gay tb h

>>994411
So basically "I'm not gay, I just like getting fucked up the ass"

>>994540
No more like "I'm not get but I'd fuck that kid's ass."

>>994411

>And it was fully expected for young men to be the feminine role in their youth and then graduate to the masculine role as they got older

I think that is more Greek than Roman

>>994411
>>994519
>>995139
As far as I know most of the boyslut shotas in Greece & Rome were slaves (who would be castrated so that they'd stay boyish and fuckable forever). It's not like your average person would've been a cumdump as a kid and then graduate into boyfucking in adulthood.

Bumbus

>>995847
That's not totally right like another anon said what that poster desribced was Greek practice (and later a practice that developed independently in Japan, Iran and Florence at different times). Sexualoty was based on the stage of development you were at. In boyhood or teenagehood you had and older mentor who also was a sexual companion but we're expected to play the role of mentor when grown up and fuck women for the sake of childbearing

>>995847
What's your source on that?

> It's not like your average person would've been a cumdump as a kid and then graduate into boyfucking in adulthood.

The boys would have sex with their teacher, then once grown, they would switch into a masculine role.

>>994411
>Being the top wasn't considered gay

There wasn't a concept of "straight", "gay" or even "bisexual" at that time.

>>994411

Correct and this continued until the 1880s. In fact, in the Renaissance, between the 1432 and 1502, the "Office of the Night" in Florence incriminated 17,000 men (out of 40,000 people at the time) with the charge of sodomy.

The masculine role was that of a man who did the fucking and the feminine was that who received it. Culturally, it wasn't too bad if a young boy or man received a fucking as they were considered to be in relative limbo in terms of gender. However, if a man was caught being fucked, then he would have huge problems legally.

Roman citizens could stick their dicks in every place the liked, the important was to not taking it. Being blowed by another man was ok, but not to blow one, thats shit for not citizen or slaves. Romans loved to fuck in the ass other people, enemies in partuclar, to show how much dominant they were. Rapes after a battle often included defeated warriors. Female omosexuality was a big fucking taboo, the average roman was disgusted to even think about it, but lesbians, and dildos were pretty common anyway, because the problem was, again, for roman citizens.

>>993680
The fact that those rumors were credible says a lot about Ancient Rome.

>>996126
True. Also, when they burned Savonarola (fundamentalish christian preacher) at the stake, half Florence was glad they could fuck boys again.

>>994411
>it was fully expected for young men to be the feminine role in their youth
Jesus Christ will this meme ever end. The romans absolutely did not do this. Adultery is something you're supposed to do with slaves, not female citizens or young boys. If you have even a suspicion of having been a bottom as a youth, you could be sure it would be brought up through your entire political career to laugh at you.
See: Caesar with that asian king (allegedly the only insult that would actually make Caesar mad)
Anthony accusations of being a kept boy for some rich patrician
Octavian accused of being Caesar's buttboy

>>993603
Pederasty is not gay.

>>994205
Unless you're Lucullus, then your brain will be rotted by exotic mushrooms. Enjoy the rest of the series, in my personal opinion the last five books can't compare at all with the first two, but still a very good read.

>>996294
The fact that those rumours were reported doesn't mean they were considered credible. Insulting and slandering opponents was everyday stuff for the romans, it was expected that your opponents would say the worst they could at any chance they got.

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>tfw you and your qt warrior bf will never join the Sacred Band of Thebes

Life is suffering.

>>995139
You're right I mixed the two up. That was a primarily Greek thing.

Romans still fucked boys though.

Rome played by prison rules

>>997397
American prison rules (Also most of Africa and Russia)

>>997066
Yeah, I was enjoyed the first 2 books a lot. But it feels like a slog now that the original characters are all dead, old or irrelevant. Haven't read on since Sulla died.

I find Caesar and his mum really annoyingly perfect in it too.

>>997579
good point european prisons don't have that

because it is haram

>>997080
>you will never be Alexander the Great and anally devastate the Sacred Band of Thebes and forever consign their degeneracy to history

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Why was pederasty so widespread bros? It was in the Americas (amongst the natives that is), Europe, North Africa and especially Asia. They still practice it in Afghanistan.

Why were boys seen as the best sexual partner one could have? I mean yes, girls were married off early because they were usually seen as pure, but with boys this was somehow more pronounced? I don't understand as to why they were viewed as better than women, even in the romantic/sexual aspect. Of course this changed throughout time periods, but in many places at some point, pederasty was praised.

>>998344
>Why were boys seen as the best sexual partner one could have?
Confirmed for not gay.

>>996282
>Being blowed by another man was ok, but not to blow one, thats shit for not citizen or slaves.
This has switched around often. In late Medieval/early Modern north Italy, for example, it was considered manly to blow and womanly to be blown because the fellator was the active participant.

>>998344
Because you don't end up with more fucking mouths to feed.

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>>996124
That's because they don't fucking exist and are just used by attention-seeking fags and feminazi dykes to promote their pathetic overblown fetish and demonize those who like actually want to have kids and lead responsible lives, away from their debauchery.

Everyone is bisexual

>>999668
That's the Japanese consensus too. As far as I can tell this dates back to the Edo period at least.

>>998631
>Confirmed for not gay.
Maybe its just a phase? Why don't we set him up with a cute little slave...

>>999727
>Everyone is bisexual
except me apparently. I don't find dudes attractive. don't you think "everyone is bisexual" is a huge oversimplification?

>>999727
> Everyone is bisexual

It's more like a scale, the Kinsey Scale to be exact; ranging from completely straight to wholly homosexual- with every conceivable variation in between.

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>>999972
You are literally gay if you wouldn't at least receive a BJ from BJ. Don't you think it's a huge oversimplification to suggest that out of the billions of dudes in this world, and the trillions that have ever existed, that there's isn't at least one that you may find kind of attractive? I'd call it more like delusional if anything.
>>1000087
>believing this pseudo-intellectual cack
Nope, that's just more 'straight' guys in denial.

>>1000192
>Don't you think it's a huge oversimplification to suggest that out of the billions of dudes in this world, and the trillions that have ever existed, that there's isn't at least one that you may find kind of attractive?
Hormones cause all men to have the same general features and women to have all the same general features. the only way that a man could have drastically different features than all the other men is if they pumped themselves full of estrogen. counting those men then there are men I would find physically attractive but that is only because they pumped themselves full of hormones that gave them feminine features. I don't think this makes me bisexual

>>1000235
But what are 'masculine' and 'feminine' features? They are purely social constructs which have constantly shifted definitions throughout history. Does having small tits make a woman less feminine? Can a man who happens to be naturally hairless never be truly masculine?

As far as I'm aware, many 'shemales' are born naturally feminine, and the main purpose of taking hormones is simply to avoid the potential complications of a titjob and getting a high voice, although admittedly I'm no expert on the matter.

You are also totally ignoring the environmental factors which play a major role in human development.

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>>1000192
There's nothing pseudo-scientific about it matey. Also, the world would be a much better place if society simply got rid of all this labelling nonsense. Hetero, Homo, gender fluid etc. Who gives a fuck.

>>1000192
There's nothing gay
about wanting to be the little spoon
to Bailey Jay

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>>1000302
Perhaps you're somewhat right, although I still believe anyone who rates themselves either 1 or 6 is outright lying to themselves.

>>1000192
>EVERYONE IS A LITTLE GAY

a little late to be posting on a school night isn't it?

>>1000288
>social constructs
You've got to be kidding me. there ARE actual physical differences between men and women. characteristics that are only on one sex or are on the opposite sex only in rare cases or through hormone therapy are defined as qualities of that gender. Beards are associated with men for a good reason: women rarely have them. so the ability to grow a beard is a masculine feature. Women have wider hips than men and have breasts. though men can get breasts to some extent by gaining weight, they are still completely aesthetically different than women's breasts.

>many 'shemales' are born naturally feminine, and the main purpose of taking hormones is simply to avoid the potential complications of a titjob and getting a high voice
the reason they are taking hormones is to gain more feminine features i.e. higher pitched voice and tits. women naturally have higher pitched voices than men. that's why you won't find many soprano male singers that have gone through puberty

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>>993603
I've been traveling around the depths of 4chan for over 5 years now and I wonder something. Why is 4chan so gay?

All across the boards, there's people being both ironically and unironically gay. Why?

>>1000347
>Beards are associated with men for a good reason: women rarely have them. so the ability to grow a beard is a masculine feature.
>women naturally have higher pitched voices than men. that's why you won't find many soprano male singers that have gone through puberty
Many women find clean shaven men attractive. Most of them probably, the whole meme beard thing is just a fad. Moustaches where associated with homosexuality for a long time also.
There are attractive women who have deep voices and attractive men who have high voices.
Also
>wat is falsetto
Bitches fucking love that shit yo.

Nothing you have said explains any of this. I never argued against genetic differences between men and women, just that what is generally viewed as masculine and feminine is subject to change.

>>1000364
>what is generally viewed as masculine and feminine is subject to change.
You haven't demonstrated that. My point with the beard example wasn't that having a beard makes someone more attractive or masculine, but that it is a physical feature that is almost exclusively on men, and therefore categorized as masculine. Just because you are attracted to men doesn't mean you find all masculine features attractive nor with women and feminine features. What people find attractive does change, but not the physical features that are associated with each gender. at no point in time will you find that developed breasts were considered a masculine feature because men cannot develop breasts except by taking female hormones

If you took it you were a woman. So only slaves and young boys took it.

Otherwise yeah, fuggin a dude up the ass was pretty acceptable.

>>1000378
>except by taking female hormones
And getting fat.
>at no point in time will you find that developed breasts were considered a masculine feature
I beg to differ. In the distant future when the population swells to such an extent that being well fed is a sign of affluence, I'm sure poor bitches will squirt at the sight of man tits.

>>1000391
that's why I said developed breasts. there is a clear difference between male breasts and female breasts

>>998107
Alexander had a qt warrior bf too, though.

>>997735
Right? Caesar is at least 100% Gary Stu, just floats through life buttblasting Bibulus and Co., but without any suspense. Just pulls parliamentary procedures out of his ass to fit the plot. The challenges Marius and Sulla faced were way better.

>>1000364
I don't know if it was correct, but I've read that the recent norm of women taking contraceptive pills has caused a slide in females to being attracted to more feminine men, with smaller jaws and no beards, because, being on contraceptives, their bodies "think" they're pregnant all the time, and so they want a man who'll stay with them and provide for the young, instead of one who'll fuck other sluts and leave.

The only place that had anything approaching the modern concept of homosexuality in the classical period was China.

>>1000450
Homo sapiens is already a feminized sissy compared to his ancestors. Wide social cooperation comes from a drop in testosterone in the males, making them less agressive. So the next step for humanity is a race of sexy lesbians amazons

>>993603

It was viewed as Greek, and therefore weak and lacking in virtue.

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>>996114
So casual sex was for men on boys and sex with women for the sake of population was the way of life?!

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>>1000649
Sounds like the life to me.

>>998093
Underrated post

>>993603
Rome was a beautiful multicultural and progressive city. Everyone got along in peace and harmony with no prejudice. Gay marriage was legal and encouraged. There were no borders and they all lived in a globalist democratic socialistic republic.

This all ended when the evil Christians came along and oppressed everybody. Fuck I hate Christians so much.

Of course things are at least getting much better today, I consider myself very progressive and I hope my country brings in many Muslim refugees. If only Muslims had been the ones to take over back then instead of the Christians, we would have a much more tolerant and peaceful society. I hate Christians so much.

Was fucking young boys a universal past time or did Afghans adopt it from Greeks?

>>999668
>>999814
I call bullshit on that.
If you give head, you are not the one getting pleasured

Everyone keeps saying it's fine if you were top... then who the fuck ever agreed to be bottom?

>>1001177

It was deemed acceptable for young teen males to be the bottom. If you were of an age to get married, it was generally frowned upon.

>>1001063
>>>/pol/

>>994411
what do you mean by being masculine?

as i know people at that time prefered small cocks over the big one (like the gods gift) and thats why every sculpture has a little one

>>1001155
Sex isn't about pleasure, it's about power.

>>1001143
Pastime, or pass-time.
And the former.

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"Irrumbabo ego vos et pedicbo"

"I will fuck you in the ass and rape your mouth"

-World renowned love poet Catullus, to his friends

>>1001303
Shouldn't it be "you all" or "you (plural)?"

>>1001207
That pesky pol bogeyman, surely everything I disagree with must be from pol

>>1001315
It's a joke, because the post he's replying to is the exact opposite of /pol/ beliefs.

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>tfw pederasty is no longer an accepted social institution

God fucking damnit just die in my sleep already.

>>1000000

>>1001344
Life is suffering.

Common enough.

See: Egalubulus [sic], the Roman Emperor who married his male lover Heraclius and who caused a scandal by prostituting himself to well-known gladiators and members of the Galatian guards (I think some Senator noted he preferred "men whose masculinity was evident") in the Imperial Palace.

>>1001344
Just go to Afghanistan, it's becoming more acceptable again

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>>1001177
Basically what I'm getting from this is any slave or little boy who couldn't fight back.. rape is the term I believe I guess was acceptable. If you got raped it was OK if you were under age or a slave..

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>>1002147

>>1000356
because everyone is but here everyone constantly talks about it

>>1001246
That was a Greek thing that might have been spread to the Romans. Big dicks were associated with barbarians so civilized men would have small ones.

>>1000450
It seems to be missing something without Crassus Orator Antonius Orator and Scaurus. I miss seeing them rek people in the senate desu.

>>1001314
Yes I meant to imply that my apologies I never use the "you all" when I translate

>>1001246
What you're talking about had nothing to do with masculinity.

Small dicks were considered civilized while big dicks were considered comical and unrefined.

I'm pretty sure that's more about Greek aesthetics though, not roman. Pretty sure big dicks were considered a sign of fertility in Rome.

>>1001155
Tell that to the girls who can't keep their eyes, hands, and mouths off of a nice cock. When I've asked girlfriends why they like it so much, they've said they love how they can make me moan and dissolve with pleasure, and how there's just something sexy about being close to such a good hard cock.

>>1002081
Did it ever stop being acceptable there?

>>1003429
Don't forget Numidicus's admirable stubbornness and Rufus's long, entertaining letters.

>>1001303
>Irrumbabo
*Irrumabo
>pedicbo
*pedicabo
Learn your grammer, Catullus-senpai.

>>1004824
Quoted it from memory m8 it's been a long time since I read Latin. Also they're not really common verbs. Glad to see the intelligence level here is high enough to correct me though.

>>1004461
For some reason you mention girls made me hard.
This is a weird thread.

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>>1004461
During the Taliban regime it was illegal, and punishment was enforced. Today it is still illegal but everyone does it anyway and no one gives a shit, except for the few Western educated people there.

>>993631
>t. procopius

>>1004448
IIRC small dicks where still laughed at but growers where more appealing then showers, because they where still big when they needed to be but not horrible to drag around lets say a battlefield

Thats why you see so many small dicks in statues

>>1006880
I thought they it wasn't really enforced during the Taliban regime.

>>1006897
I think statues had small dicks because it was considered vulgar to have large ones on statues.
It focuses the attention away from the face to the dick.

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>>1006897
>Thats why you see so many small dicks in statues
Or is it becouse marble is white?

>>1006856
Maybe you're just a good red blooded American man who likes girls Anon.

>>1006880
Yeah, isn't it like buying and selling fireworks on the 4th of July (where they're illegal) or driving a piece of shit loud car or motorcycle? Technically illegal, but only enforced in some places due to lack of law enforcement caring enough/acceptance of culture.

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>>1006930
It was, they considered pederasty a part of homosexuality, which meant capital punishment.

In fact, the reason why the Taliban gained a lot of popularity in Kandahar was because they freed a boy who was being fought over by warlords
>>1006953
Pretty much

>>993603
Rampant faggotry