Ancient Korea thread

Ancient Korea achieved nothing of note. It was a weak vassal state.

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>>986935

>>986935
>t. Taizong

>>986935
then how comes modern day korea is so successful?

>>987049
K-pop

>>986935
t. Hideyoshi

>>986935
>t. Finn

Fuck off we all know Hwan was the greater of the two.

>>986935
This is honestly the most useless kind of response you could ever hope to offer.
>achieved nothing of note
What the fuck is this supposed to mean? Are you only interested in studying history because you like judging? Do you actually think you're qualified to say what's noteworthy and what isn't?
>It was a weak vassal state
This is almost a bit of useful information, but you realize that this wasn't always true of Korea, right?
>inb4 'HURR KIM JAEBONG FUCK OFF'
Not even Asian, you're just retarded.

>>986935

But ancient Korea was when Korea actually stood a chance against China and actually won defeated several massive Chinese invasions. Your "Korea was always a vassal state" insult becomes valid a bit later.

>>987049
Any nation can be successful if they embrace the good ol' US of A.

Freedom is the path to glory.

>>986935
t. takumi matsumoto

>>987049
Rediscovering of ancient Hwan tech of course.

>>986949
>t. Taizong
>Tang Taizong
It makes sense

The border between north and south korea kind of reminds me of the the yin and yang.

A great nation that never really recovered after the Hyper-war

>>986915
Korea had some based Generals, that would also serve as Generals in the Chinese Armies, especially the Tang.

They suppressed several attempts by Chinese Dynasties to conquer them, but they eventually went with Friendly relations because they knew they would be fucked if X Dynasty did not fight on several fronts.

>>986915
Wait, does Panmunjom belong to North or South Korea?

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Ancient Baekje people pledgesd their allegience to the Emperor Yuryaku.

When Hanseong, former capital of Baekje had taken over by the ferocious Goguryeo armies, the great king of Yamato gifted Gomnaru as the new capital city of Baekje.

>>988215
>Panmunjom
North Korea but only one building is there

>>987049
pressure to not get raped again.
foreign investment
copying japan / singapore / hongkong
chaebul / huge company conglomerates
lots of government investment in not being a trash country
korean people are also fucking insane and work insane hours and really hard
also stealing japanese technology / reverse engineering. they had cheap labour / factories in korea. now the factories are in china and china is developing their tech.
???
patterns

also kpop.

Korea is the most Glorious Nation under All of Heaven, and the most Beautiful and Prosperous to ever have graced the Cosmos and the Entirety of High Creation ^___^

Every day sun shines first upon Korea's glorious shores, as a testament from Providence that this land was chosen to carry the torch of progress, civilization, reason, and morals.

Filthy jokkbari are jealous and envious of all of this!

^___^

t.Kimchi

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>>986935
I know that Korean history gets memed on all the time, but Ancient Korea (Koguryo) wasn't weak at all. They defeated the powerful invading armies of Sui Yangdi and Tang Taizong which is a big deal. They also defeated the proto-Japanese multiple times when Japan allied with another Korean kingdom (Paekche) and invaded one of the smaller Korean kingdoms (Silla) which was a vassal of Koguryo. Koguryo was a legitimate empire based on military conquest. After 700 years of existing, Koguryo eventually succumbed to a Tang-Silla alliance (plus traitors from Koguryo, including a son of Yeon Gaesomun) during a time when they were going through chaos and political turmoil after the death of the dictator Yeon Gaesomun, who was later immortalized in Peking opera as a super villain for his rivalry with Tang Taizong.

Balhae (founded by Koguryo generals) was a legitimate empire too.

Unified Silla was also not weak. After Koguryo fell, Silla basically fought Tang to a draw.

Koryo was also not weak. They defeated the Khitan empire back when it was the strongest nation in Asia. Koryo was ruled by a warrior class that held out against the Mongols for decades before finally capitulating. Koryo technically wasn't conquered and retained nominal sovereignty by becoming a sibling nation. All Korean kings married the daughters of Khans, and a Korean consort eventually became the empress of Yuan.

Joseon initially was not weak either. Sejong did too good of a job pacifying the threat from the north (Jurchens) and the south (Wa pirates) during his reign, and soon after Korea developed a very friendly relationship with China (e.g. in a letter, Wanli likened himself to Liu Bei and the Korean king to Zhang Fei), so Korean kings after Sejong became complacent and Korea suffered during the Imjin War by not being prepared and underestimating the Japanese, whom they received regular tribute from before the invasion.

(continued)

>>987049
samsung and kpop
not even memeing

>>988189
Neat observation. But hey, yin and yang are supposed to be about balance.
The two Korean states are laughably lopsided.

>>989035
What most people don't know is that 30 years later, Korea (still weak from the Imjin War) was invaded and devastated twice by the Manchus. This can be seen as the biggest turning point in Korean history when Korea became a hermit kingdom and began its descent into cuckdom and memedom.

Anyway, as long as you don't compare Korean history with Chinese history (which is obviously the biggest and best in Asia) and ignore the memes and Japanese propaganda for a moment, and don't focus entirely on the Hermit Kingdom period, then you'll find out that Korean history is respectable.

Oh, and fuck KPOP.

>>989050
i was with you until that last line, fampai

>>987049
>Singapore was a tiny Malay village on some swampy island
>Then how comes modern-day Singapore is so successful?

>>989050
>Anyway, as long as you don't compare Korean history with Chinese history (which is obviously the biggest and best in Asia) and ignore the memes and Japanese propaganda for a moment, and don't focus entirely on the Hermit Kingdom period, then you'll find out that Korean history is respectable.
That is a lot to ask.

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>>989241
British influence.

>>988192
>Implying the world ever recovered from the Hyper-war
Fucking revisionists need to leave.

>>987105
>DUDE THEY HAD MORE LAND SO THEY MUST HAVE BEEN BETTER LMAO!
t. Korean

>>989242
For you.

>>989136
KPOP is trash

the utter definition of meme music.

>>989241
Because Singapore was a trade port of renown during the 13th century. And again in the 19th century.

Modern Singapore politicians want everyone to forget this fact and focus on Lee Kuan Yew and the PAP literally PRing everyone to make history and make everyone conveniently ignore the human rights abuses that happen on a daily basis.

>>989256
You're not completely wrong. The most important thing the Brits left behind was a massive infrastructure of roads, public transport and telephone lines that the leaders of the PAP expanded upon.

China ruled over them in a vassal state way for a long time, occasion rebel fighting back

I find the tributary system really interesting

Oh and they fucked up the Japanese when one of the warlords invaded, and did very well even without much Chinese help (iirc, most of the Chinese army was dealing with Mongorians at the time)

tl;dr, history heavily influenced by China

>>989047

Geographically, at least. And yin yang are not always balanced, that's just a meme.

>>989609
First, which Korean dynasties were a vassal to which Chinese dynasties? Second, when did your so-called rebellions happen? Third, what did it mean to be a vassal of China?

>>989609
Fourth, how did Korean dynasties become a vassal to China? Fifth, how did China "rule" its vassals?

>>989035
Three Kingdoms Korea reminds me of Warring States China where none of the polities involved would have held a common identity.

>>989735
Baekje was founded by a Goguryeo prince.

>>989638
>>989701
Not him.

>when did your so-called rebellions happen
I guess the most notable one probably is the Yuan dynasty, which Korea didn't recognize as true China.

>what did it mean to be a vassal of China?
China and its surrounding "barbarian" countries had a system where the countries recognize China as the center of the world and its ruler the emperor (other countries had kings) and send tributaries to China. In response, China would send gifts to the countries for their loyalty.

It was basically trading with a lot of ceremonial pomp. The practice is very Confucian. Part of "Korea is a cuck" meme is from the belief that being a vassal means "you pay us and we don't kill you".

Korea in particular benefited financially from it. There are apparently incidents where Joseon Korea insisted on paying more tributes when Ming dynasty wanted to reduce it, so that Joseon would receive more gifts.

>Fourth, how did Korean dynasties become a vassal to China
By choosing to be one. As stated above, neighboring countries benefited economically being on friendly terms with China. Not to mention not getting invaded is generally a good thing.

>how did China "rule" its vassals?
It doesn't. China had a very hands off approach with their vassals, and why wouldn't they? Governing itself alone must have been a handful. As long as tributaries kept on coming, any domestic politics were left to individual countries.

>>989809
Good post.

>>989809
Didn't Korea also get Special Snowflake status from China by having a four toed Dragon for being little china or something?

>>989749
Qin nobility was derived from the Zhuxia identity of the Eastern Zhou yet they clearly viewed themselves as superior to the central states.

Buyeo/Goguryeo wasn't equivalent to the Jin/Sam Han culture complex.

>>989850
News to me. I have seen the four toe dragon thing on wiki, but I've taken that with a hefty grain of salt because it's wiki.

If it is true, I wouldn't be surprised. China seems to like giving out weird things like that, like titles nobody really asked for.

At one point the title of "King of Wa" was given to Japan's emperor, which was silly since the shogun had the real political power.

>>989896
Okay, but the Baekje founder was a direct descendant of Goguryeo. That's 2 out of 3 kingdoms that share a common identity. Silla came along after Goguryeo, based on archaeological records. Korea has traditionally claimed to be from Samhan AND Yemaek/Buyeo lineage, not just one or the either.

>>989915
How is common ancestry equivalent to common identity?

The descendants of Zhou cadet branches rejected royal family's authority and ruled over non Sinitic populations(Wu,Yan).

Primary sources show the Western Rong had Ji surnamed chieftains yet they were viewed as barbarians.

A unified Korean identity came after the Sillan conquest Joseon,Buyeo,Yemaek and Han are all separate identities.

>>989915
I'm about to visit Busan soon, that's around Silla's base area right? Any snobs more knowledgable about Korea know some /his/ sites to check out down there?

>>989959
Snobs=anons, thanks autocorrect.

>>989809
and when did this all happen?

>>989283
Koreans didn't lose the war, and they're not 95% white and only 5% mongoloid like modern day Finns.

>>989953
>How is common ancestry equivalent to common identity?
How is it not? The founders of Goguryeo and Baekje were literally family members, not some distant relatives.

>>989959
>Replies to my post
>Asks a question to "[anyone] more knowledgable about Korea [than the guy I'm replying to]"

Why you gotta hurt my feelings like that?

>>989984
So when did Baekje have a Goguryeo identity or vice versa?

Is the Wa/Yamato Korean because their elites had close ties with the Korean peninsula?

Both kingdoms were multiethnic and in Baekje's case they tried to emulate the Chinese southern dynasties not Goguryeo.

>>990020
Okay. Dude, I'm not going to spend the next hour arguing with you. Have it your way. I'm not THAT invested in history, trust me.

>>990035
My point was East Asian ethnolingustic diversity was far higher in the past and labels such as Korean,Chinese,Japanese are all anachronistic.

Trying to equate Buyeo with Korean idenity is disingenuous.

>>990008
Aww :( stupid phone, I didn't mean to lad, sorry. :(

So besides my original question, also who knows about that war in Korea around 700AD that involved some sort of ancient Japanese invasion? That Silla and Tang were able to defeat some monstrous 800 ship Japanese fleet in? It's fascinating but there seems to be little in English about it.

>>990201
>That Silla and Tang were able to defeat some monstrous 800 ship Japanese fleet in? It's fascinating but there seems to be little in English about it.
My knowledge on the details aren't too clear but Baekje asked for Yamato assistance against the Silla/Tang; they were utterly smashed at Baekgang and it spooked the Japanese so hard that they heavily fortified the coast, fearing a massive Tang invasion that never came.

I believe it was this defeat that encouraged Yamato military reforms--one part of the reason for the rise of the Samurai alongside the Emishi threat.

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>>990453
Yet another example of how Japan have been crap at naval warfare throughout most of its history despite being an island nation.

It's actually a shame that Bakje/Yamato lost. In an alternate timeline, modern Japan and Korea may had more amicable relations than we have now.

Jap here, ancient Korea is interesting as fuck

Baekje had a huge influence on the Yamato state, as they had a military alliance which led to Baekje refugees being integrated into the Yamato court.

These refugees remained in aristocratic families and a big influence on Buddhism.

>>990519
Japan relied on Silla merchants to travel to China. Maybe because Japanese ships weren't capable, or maybe because Silla dominated the maritime trade between the three countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ennin%27s_Diary:_The_Record_of_a_Pilgrimage_to_China_in_Search_of_the_Law

>>987049
The same reason all the Asian tigers were successful
>Authoritarian rule in its developing phase
>Export based economies
>US Bonds
>Minimal welfare
>State intervention in economy

>>989809
Agree on most points. But vassal isn't really an accurate word to describe the Chinese tributary system because it was so different from European vassalage. Tributary is more accurate, although vassal would be accurate to describe Korea's relationship to Yuan and late Qing because it was due to military conflict and they influenced Korea's domestic policies. The word vassal makes people not versed in Asian history assume that Korea was conquered and occupied by China all the time which is far from the truth. It also makes it seem like China was some aggressive warmonger which isn't true either considering that China couldn't care less about outsiders most of the time.

>>989982
>VAPORIZED any evidence of their existence
>99.9% of their population DEAD from autism poisoning
>Fell within 3 months of the activation of the Autism Array
By those metrics Pyrrhus decisively defeated the Romans and Japan won WW2.

>>990665
Before Baekje's lost, Baekje had been a relay station between China and Japan.
After unification of the peninsula, Japanese delegates tried hard to go Tang Dynasty directly.

>>991015
They tried but Silla controlled the sea. Japanese envoys complained to the Chinese emperor that Silla was always harassing them on the sea. Read Ennin's Diaries. I recommend Reischauer's book.

>>989735
>Warring States China where none of the polities involved would have held a common identity.

They all saw themselves as Huaxia and competed to see who is more Huaxia

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/04/21/revolutionary-discovery-in-china/

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Koran / Ainu
하나 hana / sine (1)
둘 tul / tu (2)
셋 set / re (3)
셋 net / ine (4)
다섯 daseot / asikne (5)
여섯 yaseot / iwan (6)
일곱 ilgup / arwan (7)
여덟 yeodeol / tupesan (8)
아홉 ahop / sinepesan (9)
열 yeol / wan (10)

Why Korean Language's numerals from one to four are similar to Ainu Language's?

Who taught them how to count?
Whether Jomon Culture or Okhotsk Culture?

>>989241
Geography

>>986915
Hyperwar, m8

>>991473
doesn't sound similar to me

>>986915

Hope you realize that most of the posts here are trolling. The japanese and its dicksucking supporters dont take too kindly of koreans in 4chan.

I hope you can distinguish them.

>>991473
It is fairly well received in the Asian studies community that early Korean culture influenced early Japan. More evidence in this can be seen in the Kofun burial mounds, which developed as a practice earlier in the Korean peninsula. There also is a ethnic difference from Ainu peoples and "Japanese", which some claim comes from early Korean settlers, or perhaps Korean and Chinese war refugees.

>>987049
>then how comes modern day korea is so successful?

Because they didn't fall for the free trade meme and followed the disgriste development model of the UK, US, Germany and particularly Japan, its old colonial master.

See "How Asia Works" by Joe Studwell.

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>>992061
>Kofun burial mounds
Do you think about keyhole type mounds which originates from Japan in 3rd century and inported to Korea later in late 5th century?

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This is a crown of Silla ornamented with many magatamas(orbs) made in Japan.
Those Jadeite stones are identified to be mined from Itoigawa, Hokuriku Region.

I've lived in Korea a few years. Have been to museums, talks on Korean history, read books...

I'm a huge history nerd, but I can't develop any interest in Korean history because it's boring as fuck. Nothing of any importance or interest, either political, cultural, or technological, ever happened here before the Korean War.

>>991414
Huaxia wasn't even used in the Han dynasty,only the Zuoshi Chunqiu mentions that the Chu labeled the Zhou polities as Huaxia which is a variation of Zhuxia.

Eastern Zhou polities saw themselves as culturally Hua and geographically Zhongguo/Zhuxia.

Eastern Zhou assimilated the native Yi polities of southern Shandong/northern Anhui/northern Jiangsu while Chu was never considered as belonging to the Hua,Zhuxia or Zhongguo.

>>992645
The same can be said of Japanese history before the Meiji period.

>>986915
Here's a primer. Korea gets fucked up by all their neighbors, sometimes themselves. Occasionally China feels bad for them and keeps them from getting totally annihilated.

>>992924
You seem like an expert. Can you provide a list of all the times Korea got fucked up (including the date) and all the times China saved Korea from annihilation?

>>992924

You've got it backwards m8, Korea's downfall has always been other Koreans.

t. kimchi

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>>989809

The vassal system was buddy-buddy up till the Ming Dynasty, but when Qing took over Korea fought two wars to remain independent because they didn't recognize Manchurians as the new rulers.

Of course they lost, and they had to do very humiliating things for Qing China. In one ceremony the Joseon King had to kiss the feet of the Qing emperor and build a huge stone stele to commemorate that cuckery.

Nevertheless, relations normalized about 100 years after the wars, but Korea would never be genuine friends with China ever since.

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>>989959

Don't forget to check out the remnants of fortresses that Hideyoshi's forces built around there. The Japanese were serious about making permanent presence there.

>>991473

Doesn't sound similar at all

>>992953
He's baiting. Most of this thread is one Chinese guy alternating between baiting/trolling and normal posting.

>>992645

Throughout my life studying history from all over the world, I had failed to ever find history of a country boring.

Maybe it's because I find anything fascinating; I even have a book just about historical pens

>>992888
Don't disagree.

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>>993145
Are you saying that you don't disagree, or are you saying to not disagree with you?

>>993087
Korean history really is boring.

It's shockingly poorly documented until quite recently; basically just asides in Chinese histories. There were no really great empires or states. No movements of peoples (Korea seems to have been inhabited uniformly by Koreans since the dawn of time). Occasionally the Japanese come in and set up shop for a while. More than occasionally the Chinese do the same. The culture was traditionally a superficial clone of Chinese culture, just as it's increasingly a superficial clone of American culture.

Korea post-Korean War is super fascinating, if only because it's a huge lab experiment in polar opposite economic systems (despite a common culture), nut nothing before that is worth anyone's time. Even for the kind of person who devours books about the history of bhutanese basket weaving.

>>993166
I do not disagree that Japanese history is weirdly uninteresting - both in light of Japan's size, and of its outsized influence thereafter - before the Meiji restoration.

>>993176
>Occasionally the Japanese come in and set up shop for a while.
List the times they did.

>More than occasionally the Chinese do the same.
List the times they did.

>>993176
Korea's history is interesting in the way it influenced the history and culture of Japan as well as Manchuria. Depends how you look at it

>>993344
Koreans were also like the Phoenicians of the Far East.

Read Ennin's Diary. Reischauer. Not only Silla, but the 3 kingdoms, Balhae, and Goryeo.

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>>993344
Korea's history is interesting in the way it was influenced by the history and culture of Japan as well as Manchuria. Depends how you look at it

ftfy

>>993403
I think he was talking of Gojoseon/Three Kingdoms of Korea bit.

The Yamato culture did rip off a lot of shit from those guys.

>>993293
You must be a Korean national because your posting style and replies to different posters in this thread reveals your asshurt about Korea being memed on.

>>993470
List them. I'm still waiting.

>>993470
>See memey generalizations
>Call him out on it
>Receive ad hominem

Okay..

>>993427
Why do Koreans even claim Gojoseon when there's no evidence that Gojoseon spoke Koreanic?

>>993584
because there's evidence Samhan, Silla and Goguryo came from Gojoseon

Korea did not come from nowhere when it pushed the Proto-Japanese out of the Korean peninsula to Japan. It makes no sense Gojoseon wasn't Korean Chinese dumbass

>>986915
>>986935

They invented pizza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLA6Bk_ivs

>>993401

http://www.koreasociety.org/doc_view/694-silla-korea-and-the-silk-road-golden-age-golden-threads-normal-quality

>The Near Eastern merchants apparently went no farther east or north than Yangzhou, and at this point the Koreans took over for the last leg of the trading route, to the easternmost corners of the known world. From what Ennin tells us, it seems that commerce between East China, Korea and Japan was, for the most part, in the hands of men from Silla. Here in the relatively dangerous waters on the eastern fringes of the world, they performed the same functions as did the traders of the placid Mediterranean on the western fringes. This is a historical fact of considerable significance but one which has received virtually no attention in the standard historical compilations of that period or in the modern books based on these sources...

>While there were limits to the influence of the Koreans along the eastern coast of China, there can be no doubt of their dominance over the waters off these shores. There were many ships which Ennin encountered off the coast of China or heard were engaged in trade between China and Japan, but few of these appear to have been manned by either Chinese or Japanese.

>While Ennin’s diary, as well as other sources, shows that the Japanese were starting to compete with the Koreans in the maritime trade of the Far East, their challenge was still feeble. [...] Ennin’s crossing to China and his subsequent voyage up the south coast of Shandong on Japanese ships as well as the whole catastrophic maritime record of the mission contrast sharply with the speed and efficiency with which Korean vessels whisked him up and down the Shandong coast and finally back home to Japan.

>The days of Korean maritime dominance in the Far East actually were numbered, but in Ennin’s time the men of Silla were still the masters of the seas in their part of the world.

Reischauer

>>993584
why does japan claim the jomon period when they didn't speak japanese?

why does england claim roman britain when they didn't speak english?

>>993601
>>993606
>This triggers the gook
There's no evidence that Koreanic was spoken in modern day Hebei/Liaoning or what Gojoseon spoke.

Chinese sources record the presence of local polities such as the Guzhu,Shanrong,Lingchi,Sushen etc where Gojoseon eventually emerged as as toponym/polity.

Only the Yemaek have a connection to Gojoseon where's the evidence that the Buyeo and Sam Han are descendants of Gojoseon?

>>993293
The forrowing is Japan and Silla relations Samguk Sagi said.

BC57: Hogong, an Japanese expatriate became a chief vassal of Hyeokgeose, the first king of Silla.
BC50: Japanese invaded.
57: Talhae from Dapana state at the northeast of the Kingdom of Wa(Japan), became a king of Silla.
59: Silla established diplomatic relations with Wa.
121: Japanese invaded to the eastern maritime area.
123: Silla made peace with Wa.
173: Himiko, the queen of Wa sent ambassador.
193: Famine on Japan, caused refugees from Japan to Silla.
232: Japanese invaded Silla and their troops sieged Silla's capital. Jobun, the king of Silla defeated them.
233: Japanese invaded on the eastern coast.
General Seok Uro beat them by burning their ships.
249: Seok Uro killed by Japanese.
287: Japanese invaded Illye-Bu and took 1000 prisoners.
292: Japanese attacked Sado castle (present Pohang).
294: Japanese attacked Jangbong castle.
295: Silla gave up the counterattack to the Japanese.
300: Silla and Wa sent ambassadors eachother.
312: Wa wanted a daughter of king of Silla. Silla sent a daughter of a subject professedly.
344: Wa wanted to send a daughter of the king again. Silla refused to do.
345: Wa decleared to break the relations with Silla.
346: Japanese force sieged Silla's capital. They withdrew by shortage of foodstuff and Silla troops persuit them.

Every Korea thread is always Chinese and Japanese who hate Korea, and whenever Korean tries to defend they resort to more meme.

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>>993655
interedasting

so korea had the most powerful ships and navy and owned the seas just like they owned the land and steppes with korean genghis and attila? especially after the fall of the great hwan empire, they retreated back to the great hwan ocean/east sea?

>>993676
>forrowing

>>993681
i mean what do you expect on a weeaboo site?
weebs will do anything to gargle nippon dick

>>993656
Equating Gojoseon with Koreans is equivalent to the entire Roman Empire being British.

>>993676
Silla had many colonies in Japan, you know that, right? Also, none of those are occupations.

>>993670
Gojoseon was centered in North Korea, not in China in Liaodong. I'm not talking about the culture in Liaodong.

Because Sam Han/Silla originated directly north and the only obvious area is Gojoseon since Korea is a small peninsula?

I don't know what language Buyeo spoke, but Goguryo and the Yemaek should have spoken Korean

>>993684
Nice memes. Glad to see you have a genuine interest in history.

>>993731
gasamnida chingoo

>>993681
sadly that is what the situation is in academia regarding korean history internationally

>>993684
Not 100% certain but I think Reischauer might have a bit more credibility than you. Maybe.

sequel of >>993676

364:Silla defeated Japanese by ingenious scheme.
391: Kingdom of Wa invade Korean peninsula and fought against Goguryeo.
393: Japanese sieged Silla's capital and defeated by the Silla's armies.
399: Japanese troops overflown along the border with Silla.
400: Japanese sieged Silla's capital. They retreated at the arrival of rescue forces by Goguryeo.
402: Silla sent Misaheun, a son of the king Naemul to Wa as a hostage.
405: Japanese attacked Myeonghwal castle (Bomun-li, Gyeongju). At their retreating, Silla force persuit them.
407: Japanese invasion.
408: King Silseon of Silla gave up to attack Japanese military base of Tsushima.
418: Hostages had been sent to Wa and Goguryeo returned to Silla.
431: Japanese attacked Myeonghwal castle again. But they retrieted.
440: Japanese invaded souther and eastern area of Silla.
444: Japanese seiged Geumseong, the capital of Silla. They retrieved by shortage of provisions. Silla forces tried to persuit them. But they failed and incur heavy casualties.

>>993714
Warring States Gojoseon and the Han era Gojoseon are two separate entities.

Warring States Gojseon:
Gojoseon traded/was a tributary of Qi(Guanzi).

East of the Yan polity but west of the Liao river(Zhanguoce).

East of the Lie river,north of the Bo sea,adjacent to the Yellow Sea and north of the Taihang range(Shanhaijing).

From the Shiji we know that Wei Man usurped the throne and that this Gojoseon included Northern Korea.

The compound phrase Yemaek Joseon shows that the Yemaek were associated with Joseon but they were two separate concepts.

Jizi's migration was penned in the Han dynasty but there's archaeological evidence that a Marquis Ji(㠱侯) with a Shang nobility title(亞) was present in Hebei and Liaoning,㠱 and 箕 were interchangeable in the past. Regardless of the historicity of this enfeoffment Jizi was worshiped by Goguryeo(箕子神).

Efforts to find what the Bueyo,Yemaek,Sam Han etc spoke is confounded by the paucity of extant sources and the reliance on toponym glosses.

>>993709
If your sayings are truth, Empress Jingu is grand-grand-grand-[...]-grand-daughter of the ruler of colonial Japan, a prince of Silla named Ame no Hiboko.

So, Japanese Emperors had legitimate claim for Silla mainland and they did rule them actually. ;)

Empress Jingu and Emperor Ojin, Nintoku, Yuryaku and Keitai are true emperors of the ancient Koreanic Empire centered on Kyushu island.

sequel of >>993939

459: Japanese sieged Wolseong. Silla forces parsuited them on the withdrawal.
462: Hwalgae castle fallen by the Japanese forces and 1000 prisoners had taken by them.
463: Japanese failed to attack Samnyang castle (Yangsan).
473: Japanese attacked eastern coast.
477: Japanese attacked Odo.
482: Japanese invaded Silla.
486: Japanese invaded Silla.
500: Jangbong-jin fallen by Japanese.
562: Gaya (Mimana) ruined by Silla.
660: Baekje fallen by Silla and Tang China.
663: Battle of Baekgang.
670: Wa Japan changed the name into Nippon.
698: Ambassadors from Japan came to Silla.
731: Japanese invaded east of Silla with 300 ships.

>>994025
So you're saying Japanese are descendants of Silla?

>>994113
Everyone know that Silla had always been weakest and smallest of the Korean kingdoms. Funny how Wa never attacked Goguryeo or Baekje. Also, once unified Silla wrecked Japan in 731 and Japan eventually sent tons of tribute as apology

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>>994179

Not him, but I tend to avoid this topic because there are not enough evidence for any side of the argument, and most of the argument is driven by dumb nationalism.

Best regards,

Korean that is lurking in this thread

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>>994179
Silla had been originaly one of the Japonic states.
Ancient legends in the both countries certificate a king of Silla had came from Japan.
Silla had origin from Jomon culture.

>>994396
You just said a moment ago that Japan was ancient Koreanic empire centered in Kyushu. Now it's Japonic? Now you're saying Silla was Jomon culture?

Make up your mind.

Chotto matte.. anata ga iimasu.. Watashi-tachi Wazu Jomon and Unko??

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>>986915
all you need to know senpai

>>994458
That map is historically inaccurate. It doesn't include Egypt.

t. Korean

Also, this is now KPOP thread

https://youtube.com/watch?v=BAM_swBFUSM

>>994436
Korean and Gojoseon didn't have same ethnicity. Races and ethnicities are not peninsuler-specific nature.

Korean language is originated in Japanese archiperago. That is reason why Korean have many loanwords from not only Japanese but also Ainu.

Korean people falsify their genealogy.
How in the earth a man and female bear mating causes Koreans?
Korean human grandmothers came from Japan. Before starting of agriculture, Korean peninsula was mostly uninhabited. On the other hand, 250 thousands at maximum of Japanese Islanders had been settled as hunter-gatherers (said Jared Diamond).
It's natural to think many of ancester of Koreans were from the well polulated islands on the southward.

>>994518

>What country has the honor to say that part of their homeland is basically godly spunk? Well, Japan does. The story of Japan's creation is the god Izanagi pushed his "jewel encrusted spear" into "the primal ooze of our planet" and, when pulling out, "spilled a salty substance" that created the Japanese island of Onogoro. If you can't spot the innuendo there, don't worry, it only gets less subtle from here.

>The story goes that when Izanagi finally decided to stop metaphorically "raping" the underage Earth below, he took his soon-to-be wife Izanami and descended on the huge island of dried ejaculate where they married and settled. After having sex on Spunk Island the woman gave birth to eight more Japanese islands.

>Izanami continued to get pregnant and squeezed out more babies into the world. One of them was Homusubi (Kagututi), the incarnation of fire. A literal fireball. Learning first hand that fire is hot, Izanami suffered the worst burning sensation down there... and basically everywhere.


>Izanami and Izanagi, in a rare moment of not having weird, unbelievably painful sex.

>Being horribly burned from the inside she suffered agony for a couple of days, losing complete control of her bodily functions (what kind of gods are they?), vomiting, urinating and shitting uncontrollably. Her dying spasms of bodily functions gave birth to new gods, a pair for each substance that flew out of her body:

>>994518
>How in the earth a man and female bear mating causes Koreans?

How in the earth does sperm, shit and piss create Japanese?

Also, Koreans view the myth like this. Tiger clan and bear clan are native inhabitants who joined with new settlers with better technology. That's all.

>>994518
>Before starting of agriculture, Korean peninsula was mostly uninhabited.

Korean peninsula has the highest concentration of dolmens in the world...

>>994570
The tiger clan was continental proto-Korean.
The bear clan was insular proto-Korean.

Aino-Japonic bear defeated Koreo-Tungus tiger and won a seat of consort for the agricultural king from central state.

>>994617
There you go with your Ainu theories again. You're the Japanese equivalent of Hwan empire or even Genghis Yoshitsune Khan

>>994603
have any dolmens over 30,000yrs old?

>>988675

that's a real /int/ throwback

>>994645
How the fuck should I know. I'm more curious about how sperm created Japanese people >>994551

>>994664
And shit. Cannot forget the shit. Piss and spit too.

>>994645
Wait. Hold on. You're gonna go that far back to prove Koreans came from Japan? 30,000 years? Holy shit! LOL

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>>994664
I heared that according to Edda, Elves are developed from maggots spawned on the dead body of giant nordic godgilla.

Also Japan has numerous deities for everyting on the nature, around people and etc.
God of shit, sperm, vomitting, penis and vagina also possible.

>>986915
If you know anything about East Asia, you'll know that until the late 19th century Korea was a surezain state of China. This was a consequence of the sinocentric world view, that is, the belief that China was at the center of the the world based on Confucian dogma, which collapsed following the First Opium War and the Western powers forcing open China with the imposition of the Treaty of Nanking in 1842 following the First Opium War. Then Japan attempted to impose its own unequal treaty on Korea modelled after the treaties imposed on them after 1854 (Convention of Kanagawa w/US imposing the opening of ports to US gods and consulates), and which instigated Japan's rapid development post-1868 (the motivation to turn down those treaties by being on an equal footing to the Western Powers) and as such, forced Korea to sign the Treaty of Gangwha in 1876.

The Soldiers Revolt in 1882 and the Kapsin Coup of 1884, alongside the Tonghak Rebellion meant that Korea in the late 19th century was a boiling point, where the interests of China, Russia, Japan and the Western powers all clashed. The Sino-Japanese War of 1894/1895 was largely fought in Korean soil, following 10 years of Chinese control. This ended with the influence of China over Korea and following the Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895, China agreed to concede Japan the sovereignty over Taiwan and Shandong. Then the Russians got involved in Korea, which ended with the assassination of Empress Min and then following the Russo-Japanese war of 1904/1905 and the Treaty of Portsmouth, Korea became a Protectorate and then in 1910 became a colony of the Japanese Empire until 1945, following Japan's defeat in WW2.

>>994722
Then why is a bear mating with humans so unbelievable. Hm?

>>994726
Oh shit. The millionth time I see Japanese post something about how Korea being a shit during the 19th-20th century. LOL. Trust me, you'll need some new material to offend me, because I agree that Korea was a shit back then :)

PS Thanks for the railroads nigga

>>994753
Kek, no, I am a History & Archaeology student in the UK. And one of my modules revolves around Modern East Asia, so...

>>994764
Okay. Good luck to you in your career.

>>994753
Because,
human sperm can make human babies if able to into the woman's uterus,
but can't make any babies if they into the bear's uterus.

Ainu, Japanesse and Korean are sharing common word for the god and bear.

Ainu: カムィ Kamuy
Japanese: 神 Kami / 熊 Kuma
Korean: 곰 Kom

Those words from three languages, mean both of "bear" and "god".

In moderern Korean '곰 Kom' is fossilized and they use Chinese word '신(神) sin' for "god", but remained in the words for gratitude '고맙습니다 Komapseumnida'< '고맙다 komapda(thankful)'.

>>994916
Fine, then how does shit become Japan?

>In moderern Korean '곰 Kom' is fossilized and they use Chinese word '신(神) sin' for "god", but remained in the words for gratitude '고맙습니다 Komapseumnida'< '고맙다 komapda(thankful)'.

You are sooooooooooooooo wrong. Koreans call bear 곰 to this day.

>>994916
If 곰 came from Japan then how come it's one syllable not two like 고무. Looks like 곰 went from Korea to Japan because Japanese doesn't have syllable consonant enders so became 구마. Its possible for kuma to pronounce as kuma in Korean, but its pronounced as gom. OTOH not possible for gom pronunciation in Japanese, so became kuma. More logical, yes?

>>994916
That is the worst case of false cognates that I have ever seen. I bet you think the Portuguese taught Japan "arigato."

>>994916
So wrong. You could've taken one minute to google 곰 you know.... google 곰세마리 for example

>>994977
okok
revising that

In moderern Korean, usage of '곰 Kom' for "god" is fossilized

>>995023
Too late!! You lose sucker!! Mwahahaha.

Nah I'm just kidding. But personally i think its kinda silly to argue about this because ..... tens of thousands years is...... Whew. That's a lot. That far back, i dont think anyone care about korean or japanese identity. ultimately, may never know the truth. But i will keep in mind your theories. interesting.

>>995007
Ungjin(熊津, means "bear port"), the capital city of Baekje from 475. It's original indigenous name written as "Kumanari(久麻那利)" in the Japanese chronicles, and "Guma(固麻)" in the Chinese chronicles.
This means some Korean words lost the final vowel and proto-Korean are more polysyllabic.

>>995067
웅진 another name is 곰나루. Many korean cities have more than one name

>>995067
Sorry thats all for me >>995105 is my last post. Going out and won't be back for a while. I Dont want people to be waste time waiting for my replies when i'm not here.. also, Stay safe <3

>>995012
>>995054
hmm... gettin enjoyable theory telling time for me.

I found some words around "kami(神)", which sharing consonants with:
籠る Komoru (be confined, be filled)
曇る Kumoru (become clowdy, get fogged)
込める Komeru (load, charge)
被る Kaburu (put on, pull over, be covered with)
混む Komu (to be crowded)
噛む Kamu (bite)
交う Kau (mingle together)
雲 Kumo (clowd)
煙 Kemuri (smoke)

Those words have common core image as "hide, cover, conceal".
Because Japanese gods are invisible things, this images are very suitable for.

Meanwhile, Korean word "곰 gom" has obsolete usage for "hole".
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%EA%B3%B0

Around "곰 gom(bear, hole)", I found those words:
검은 Geomeun (black)
깊다 Gipda (deep)
김 Gim (steam, vapor)
고맙다 Gomapda (thankful)
감추다 Gamchuda (hide)
캄캄하다 Kamkamhada (pitch-dark)
컴컴하다 Keomkeomhada (pitch-dark)
깜깜하다 Kkamkkamhada (pitch-dark)

I feel relativity between those words by the assistance of Japanese vocabulary.
Not being a Korean speaker, I can't find more rhyming words.
At present, I guess that those Korean words lack the core concept "hide, cover, conceal" ("vapor" never become "black" and not so "thankful") and seemed to be loanwords from proto-Japanese.

If someone from Korea here, please challenge to find more words to block to prove this hypothesis that some Korean words originated from Japan.

>>994436
kek. the power of Japanese education

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>Ethnic Origins/Peopling of Korea, Manchuria and Japan:

Puyo-Gojoseon-Yemaek-Koguryo + Samhan-Silla-Baekje + Jin (辰國)-Proto-Japonic => Korean

Sushen-Yilou-Wuji-Mohe + Buyeo-Koguryo => Jurchen/Manchu

Jin(辰國)-Proto-Japonic-Yayoi + Jomon => Yamato/Japanese

Tami Mura (Proto-Japonic) => Tamura = Tamna => Jeju

>>989899
It's not given to Japan's emperor. Japan was not united then. It's given to one of the king of a state in Fukuoka(Na state).

>>996249

Doesn't Japan only have one unbroken monarchic dynasty?

>>988356
The shape from above looks like someone was buried face-down ass-up.

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>>994722

>>996258
No. There were numerous small kingdoms in Japan. Yamato court conquered them all and became the emperor of Japan. Then it made its myth claiming they were originally from heaven. Kojiki and NIhon-shoki were written by the order of emperor in order to justify their authority.

An Indian princess saw in her dream her destiny to become a queen of a huge kingdom located in that direction where short eyed people lived and set sail towards Korea. She married the prince and became the queen of Korea

Titles that Korean rulers used (sometimes only domestically (like Japan and Vietnam did), and sometimes internationally (depending on which dynasty, which recipient and time period))

>Koguryo
Taewang (太王) "Greatest King"
Hotaewang (好太王) "Very Greatest King" (Gwanggaeto the Great)

>Baekje
Daewang (大王) "Great King"

>Silla (in chronological order)
Geoseogan (거서간)
Chachaung (차차웅)
Isageum (이사금)
Maripgan (마립간)
Wang (王) "King" (occasionally used 大王 and 太王)

>Balhae (used interchangeably)
Hwangsang (皇上) "Emperor"
Daewang (大王) "Great King"

>Koryo
Haedong Cheonja (海東天子) "Emperor" / Hwangdo (皇都) "Emperor"
Wang (王) "King" (after capitulating to Yuan)

>Choson / Joseon
Wang (王) "King"

>>987049
because they're a strategic US military colony. Same reason Japan and western continental europe matter.

>>987109
>Do you actually think you're qualified to say what's noteworthy and what isn't?

well, you're typing your shit-stain of a comment in the latin alphabet, in the english language, on a computer engineered by faggots in california.

how much hangul, kimchi bullshit went into doing any of that?

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>>986915
GOKURYEO WILL RISE AGAIN.
My ancestors homeland will no longer be defiled by 쪽발이 and 짱게. 고구려 만세!

why are all korean men such twinks

>>998857
>well, you're typing your shit-stain of a comment in the latin alphabet, in the english language, on a computer engineered by faggots in california.

we're talking about contributions now? haha ok out of curiousity how have you personally contributed to the development of any of the ones you have just mentioned?