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What do you think, how much guilt do the individual countries bear for both world wars?
From my uneducated view I would say Austria-Hungary is primarily responsible for WW1 together with Germany. The ultimatum to Serbia was exorbitant. I wonder whether AH even expected Serbia to comply and wanted to humiliate and extort them or they aimed for a war from the beginning. I favor the latter because of the blank cheque. This is also why I see Germany as primarily responsible. Without Germany's support the ultimatum would have never been made. It was obvious that Russia would intervene and a large war would erupt. Germany repeatedly declined a diplomatic solution to the July Crisis and displayed a lust for war. Britain seemed to be the most peaceful ones, pushing for a diplomatic solution, recognizing from the beginning what was about to unfold and then aiding the less guilty side to overcome the war.
Then comes the Treaty of Versailles. USA aimed for Europe to flourish, France wanted to weaken Germany as much as possible. I wonder which one of them were right. Would a more lenient outcome towards Germany have prevented a second WW or should it have been harsher? Or did it not matter?
Anyway, Germany is the primary culprit of WW2. The treaty seems to be frequently used as an excuse but it does not justify war. I wonder how much the treaty helped the NSDAP to gain power. Since noone stopped them, WW2 was inevitable with their militaristic policies.
And from there on it all went downhill.
Europe lost its leading position, many lives were lost, ressources wasted, industry destroyed, socialism thrived, which led to the downfall of the continent.
So what do you guys think about all this? Which nations bear how much guilt for the WWs? What should have been done differently; how could the WWs have been prevented? And would Europe have maintained its leading position if the WWs did not occur or was its downfall inevitable? Would socialism have thrived even without the WWs?
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First of all, humanity wouldn't even had had to go through two fucking world wars if it wasn't for the fucking Hwan Empire fucking everything up and setting humanity back literally 50,000 years.
Second, the British were the main culprit of WWI. They tried to keep Germany from becoming too powerful and threatening their empire.
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>>969114
>Second, the British were the main culprit of WWI. They tried to keep Germany from becoming too powerful and threatening their empire.
Yeah, British attacked Germany... wait.
British realised their geopolitical strategy meant to alienate potential competitors for continental hegemony. They've achieved this by making 3 of 5 major continental powers to ally with them in one way or another(and competing for influence within Ottoman Empire/Turkey) and from now on they didn't care at all, if Germans wouldn't start shit, they wouldn't get hit either. They've started shit tho.
The understanding of British diplomatic strategy requires little more than traditional, subtle, German "huh, these guys are rich, me muscles big, gonna attack and rob them".
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>>969114
You make it sound like Britain cynically launched a preemptive invasion of Germany.
It's as if Britain's guarantee of Belgian neutrality was little more than a perfidious trap to ensnare the poor, innocent German soldiers going for a leisurely stroll through Flanders on their way to do some summertime sightseeing in Paris.
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>>969096
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>>969089
Russia to blame for WW1. It would have went nowhere if they just told Serbia "you fucked up bad here and we aren't covering for you".
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>>969089
America should have stayed out of both wars.
We could have made huge profits supplying both sides and letting our rivals weaken each other.
After Pearl Harbor, all of our resources could have gone into The Manhattan Project and making dozens of bombs.
Wiping every Japanese city off the map with many unused nukes to spare would have increased our position in the Cold War tremendously.
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>>970183
>Wiping every Japanese city off the map with many unused nukes to spare would have increased our position in the Cold War tremendou
How exactly?
I mean, they did end up as your puppet state.
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>>969089
AH wanted a war against Serbia real bad.
But I blame the Russians for mobilizing first and making it bigger than it actually is.
Germany unfairly took the brunt of all the blame.
WW2 is definitely the Kraut's fault.
But then again I'll be pretty fucking pissed if they ruined my country to the point of degeneracy and collapse.
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>>969089
>The ultimatum to Serbia was exorbitant. I wonder whether AH even expected Serbia to comply and wanted to humiliate and extort them or they aimed for a war from the beginning.
Was it really? Imagine the situation the US were in after 9/11. Do you think they would have been fine with Afghan authorities telling them that they'd take care of the terrorists themselves? No, they had proven to be incapable of clearing their own backyard.
No nation in the world - let alone a Great Power of Europe - would tolerate the terrorists that murdered their heir to the throne to be operating in their direct vicinity.
>Without Germany's support the ultimatum would have never been made. It was obvious that Russia would intervene and a large war would erupt.
Was it obvious? There's a different interpretation to the Carte Blanche, suggested by Berghahn, which states that it was meant as a deterrent rather than a provocation.
Also, how is it Russia's business, meddling in the backyard of the Austro-Hungarian Empire? By what right would they intervene at the Balkans?
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>>969089
The Eternal Austrian bears responsibility for all
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>>970148
> Russia to blame for WW1.
>>972467
> But I blame the Russians for mobilizing first and making it bigger than it actually is.
>>972566
> Also, how is it Russia's business, meddling in the backyard of the Austro-Hungarian Empire?
What exactly is going on here? IIRC Russians blame England for dragging them into WWI they had no business fighting in.
> By what right would they intervene at the Balkans?
Panslavonic ambitions.
Also, this shit US pulled with 9/11 is not the way things actually worked at the time. So stop projecting modern world politics into pre-WWI Europe.
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>>972597
>IIRC Russians blame England for dragging them into WWI they had no business fighting in.
Russia was well before Britain into WW1.
>Panslavonic ambitions.
Exactly.
>Also, this shit US pulled with 9/11 is not the way things actually worked at the time.
Where's the difference then? You are a great power and there are terrorists operating in your vicinity which humiliate you. What do you think is the fitting reaction?
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>>972596
What is this maymay called? How do I google it?
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>>972598
> Russia was well before Britain into WW1.
Let's not pretend nobody expected how the things will turn out before Germans actually declared war on Russia.
> Where's the difference then? You are a great power
Full stop. All major states were "Great Powers" in Europe at the time. US was the only Great Power during 9/11.
Imagine Frence invading Ireland and nuking Dublin simply because someone from IRA shot president's dog.
> there are terrorists operating in your vicinity which humiliate you. What do you think is the fitting reaction?
Well. Not mass-murder of innocent civilians, I'd say. But then, I'm not American.
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>>972602
Don't know
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>>972630
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>>972608
>Imagine Frence invading Ireland and nuking Dublin simply because someone from IRA shot president's dog.
Shooting the president's dog and shooting the president is a very different thing. Not to mention that invading and rooting out troublemakers is different from nuking, so your example isn't really fitting.
The point remains: no nation would tolerate a hotbed of terrorism in their direct vicinity.
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>>972633
> Not to mention that invading and rooting out troublemakers is different from nuking, so your example isn't really fitting.
So US didn't actually invade anyone? It was a "police action"?
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>>972635
It was something akin to it.
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serbs agreed to accept the ultimatum then changed their mind on the same day after the russian attase guaranteeing them
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>Where's the difference then? You are a great power and there are terrorists operating in your vicinity which humiliate you. What do you think is the fitting reaction?
The reason the US invaded Afghanistan wasn't because they harbored terrorists, the reason was that they refused to give you Ossama.
Do you really think if it had been good to invade them even if they had given you Osama, agreed stop any propaganda aimed at you produced in Afghanistan as well as help your government to rot out whatever terrorists there was in the country?
>>972642
Source?
I have always understood it that the Russians pushed the Serbians to agree to it and they accepted to every point of it apart from the one that would make them a puppet.
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>>972653
>Source?
he has none
he is literally making things up
the tzar himself told the serbians to accept it
which they did in nine points out of ten
not that it mattered because austria specifically wanted their war with serbia
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>>969114
I think you'received really underlying the Hwan Empire's role in modern biological weapons. The fact that they weaponized Autism at the Battle of Pyongyang, massacring 20,000 Finnish Jedi knights and infecting the Finnish race with Autism for thousands of years to come, spreading it throughout the world inadvertently caused both world wars, along with the Emu War.
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>>969089
before asking so stupid fucking questions you could do us a liberty and read up something or atleast anything on 20th century
fucking do you expect me to explain to you every single fucking thing that happened preceding both fucking wars.
since you are such a fucking retard I will narrow it down for you in couple of brief answers since your stupid ass cant be bothered.
WW1 - German fault, they wanted a war with Russia but they needed some valid reason. Thus AH was supported in chugging out
utlimatum that would inevitably be declined cuz of not respecting basic rights of independent nation. The End.
WW2 - Power hungry meth addict wanted to take a bite of peaceful interwar Europe. The End.
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>>974883
>German fault, they wanted a war with Russia but they needed some valid reason. Thus AH was supported in chugging out
>utlimatum that would inevitably be declined cuz of not respecting basic rights of independent nation. The End.
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