Ukrainians

They are very real aside of memes about we wuz ancient ukres and shit.

>>860171
Ukraine LITERALLY means frontier/borderland.

It's actually pretty easy to explain. There was Kievan Rus full of East Slavic Ruthenians, which got essentially destroyed by the Mongols and then rebuilt from the ground up by the Muscovites, who got wealthy by being tax collectors for the Mongol khan. These people created the Tsardom of Russia and those Ruthenians who didn't adopt this new "Russian" identity gradually became the people we now know as Ukrainians and Belarusians.

>>860171
Ukrainians are just rural hick Russians. Their language is exactly like Russian, but sounds funnier.

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Don't believe any of these liars, OP, Ukrainians are absolutely a meme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45daYdaMmCQ

>My father died because of vodka. He was of pure health, and vodka drove him to the grave. One day he was going home drunk, and just steps away from our house, he fell into the snow, and that was it.

>>860171
this >>860197

ukrainians are technically the original/actual russians

>>861418
It's no wonder Ukrainians are not good at anything and their entire history consists of being conquered, first by the Mongols, then the Russians. If Russians truly descended from Ukrainians, it means that even Russians are more evolved. Cockholes are truly subhuman.

Slavs are the masters of creating meme nations. Bosniaks, Macedonians, Ukrainians, Belarusians. I'm sure a few more will pop up in the future.

>>860171
Literally Russians.

>>861440
>Bosniaks
muslim slavs

>Macedonians
meme Bulgarians

>Belarusians
White Russians, their name literally translates to that

Ukrainians are Turks and Russians are Finns. Only West Slavs are actually Slavic.

>>861453
>germano-jewish hybrids
>actually slavic
pick 1

>>861452
I forgot all other Muslim Slavic groups that frequently profess different identities: Goranis, Pomaks, Torbesh. The meming never stops when you're a Slav.

It's like Moldovans insisting they aren't Romanians.

>>860197
You missed a pretty key part of history when they were under the PLC/rebelling against PLC.

>>861465
Peopre's Lepublic of China?

>>860197
Where can I read about pre-Muscovy russian history?
Any specific authors?

>>861469
Polska-Lietuvska.

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Ukraine is a fucking massive meme
Not only is the entire basis of Russia itself from Ukraine the fucking name of the country means borderland and the languages are almost identical to the point where ukrainian is just russian with slang. Ukraine has been Russian for fucking centuries.In fact most of Ukraine's land was gifted to it by russia as part of it's local governance. The Crimea wasn't under ukrainian governance until the fucking 50's

>>861824
Actually russian is just ukrainian with slang from other languages (usually french, german and english). Traditional slavic (the ones ukrainians, belarusians and others speak) was considered to be the language of the peasants.

>>861831
well there you go the point still stands

>>861824
>name of the country means borderland

You shouldn't focus on the name but rather the ethnicity itself. I'd say there are the Rus people of which there are three subgroups, Ukrainians being one of them.

But yes, the country itself is pretty ahistorical.

>>861831
Russian actually has a shitload of Mongolian, Tatar and even some Persian loanwords.

>>861859
>You shouldn't focus on the name but rather the ethnicity itself.

>hello my fellow anon I'm a borderlander from borderlandia

Fuck off retard.

>>861469
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

well they do have their own culture and language

>>862268
>>861824
You forgot to mention how Ukrainian identity was artificially created by Taras Shevchenko to complete your meme posts, m8s.

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>>860171
They, like the Russians and Belorussians are descendants of the Rus, but the Rus =/= Russians, think of the Kievan Rus as a proto nation from which the Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians came from, with the Russians becoming dominant and influential, they are all closely related but are a separate people and have a right to govern themselves.

>>861452
>Macedonians
>meme Bulgarians

You mean

>Macedonians
>best Bulgarians

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>>861824
Your post is a fucking massive meme.
>languages are almost identical to the point where ukrainian is just russian with slang.
Russian language has 62% of common vocabulary with Ukrainian language. Ukrainian has more in common with Belarusian, Polish and Slovak.
>Ukraine has been Russian for fucking centuries
So were Baltic states, South Caucasus and Poland.
>In fact most of Ukraine's land was gifted to it by russia as part of it's local governance
Central Council wasn't "gifted" shit. It operated according to rules of national self-determination.

Ukraine is meme tier.

http://news.finance.ua/ru/news/-/351307/oon-80-ukraintsev-zhivet-za-chertoj-bednosti

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12072614/Inflation-hits-44pc-in-Ukraine-amid-economic-collapse.html

>>862289
+15

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I come from Ukraine. You not say Ukraine is meme!

>>860171
It's more complicated.
>>860197
guy says it right but forgets about one important part.

While Byelorussians are *mostly* Ruthenians, Ukrainians also have these guys called Cossacks, who are largely assimilated nowadays.

The cossacks, where did they came from?

Well, from everywhere. Tartars, Poles, other Ruthenians, Lithuanians... everywhere where neo-feudalism was established(that is the lands that were part of PLC and Russia), there was a side effect of then-new serfs getting away from their land and trying to find new one. Where did they go? In today's eastern Ukraine and southern Russia. The reason fro this location was quite simple - black death devastated the local population and it was sort of no-man's land.

They've formed a political system similar to the traditional system of Slavic people, with free peasants renting land from newly formed Cossack nobility(which were largely not recognised by anybody but cossacks themselves) which in turn was composed mostly of semi-professional soldiers. It was kind of tribal war-democracy. As such they've created warrior culture that made them further resistant to any efforts leading to re-feudalisation(which was something both szlachta and boyars wanted to do) moot as both powers needed them for their wars. Their economy was based on farming and looting Ottoman shit. Obviously their privileges were largely taken away when their lands stopped being on the borderline between those three powers and all that was left was that they formed huge percentage of Russian light cavalry regiments.

So basically who are Ukrainians? They are Ruthenians and Cossacks plus some Tartars.

Of course due to efforts of vatas and other faggots we have "russians are literally tartar tax collectors only Ukrainians are trve Rus" and "Ukrainians are basically Russians, fake nation" memespouting that goes on both sides and generally leads to nowhere.

>>861452
It means White Russia though.

>>862313
>White Russia
So you were sayin'

that we were


BLACKRUSSIAN TZAAAARS AN SHIEEEET?

>>862329
ctrl+f russia

http://www.beforebc.de/all_europe/index.html

>>862331
TZZZAAAAARZ AN SHIEEET

>>862308
Are the Tatars or the Cassocks the ones who basically just killed stragglers after a retreat as their prime contribution to the military?

>>862354
No, they are Light Cavallery obviously.

>>862359
Actually no. I can't vouch for Don cossacks but Zaporozhian ones were musketeer infantry first and foremost. It's a prime example of historical memefication.

>>862329
it means russia is finngoloid slavs while belorussia is trve white slavs

>>861465
>he seriously believes that Cossacks were proto-Ukrainians

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Why does it matter to Europeans that every ethnic group gets their own country?

>>862671
>what is rousseau

>>860171
every nationality is a meme and a 'mix' of other nationalities, which, in turn, are the mix of other nationalities etc.

>>862658
Cossack is not an ethnicity.

>>862308
>neo-feudalism

The fuck was "neo" about it? It was just feudalism.

>>861387
More like auld tyme pre-reform russian.
A lot of words considered archaic or casual in russian are in full formal use here.

>>861387
But Russians have been rural hicks for literally 99% of their history, before the commies crammed them into makeshift city apartments so they could toil in the local factory.

>>861452
there was a belarusian immigrant in my highschool history class
I'd belaruse her belly if you know what I'm saying
>tfw I never got the chance to talk to her

>>862720

No that guy but terms like "re-feudalization" or "new-feudalism" are used to note the streghtening of servitude during Low Middle Ages which lasted for centuries in Eastern Europe.

>>862986
Back in the day there were two separate languages used for writing and actual everyday speaking purposes.

Modern Russian language is Russified Church Slavonic, hence why it's got so much in common with Bulgarian, of all languages. It formed around written language while spoken language was forgotten. In fact, pre-Pushkin Russian literature is fucking painful to read because of all Church Slavonic elements.

Modern Ukrainian is common language. It formed around spoken language while written one was forgotten.

>>863020
For a language formed around written language it has an awful cursive.

>>863046
you get used to it

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>>863046
You can thank Peter I for that.

>ukraine means borderland
Is there a way to check the etymology of this word?

>>862671

Europeans have a natural predisposition to kill each other for stupid reasons.

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>>863068
>Is there a way to check the etymology of this word?

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>>860171
They are a subgroup of Russians, yes.

This is their history:

>be a bunch of slavs
>united into a powerful confederation of principalities by the viking "Rus'"
>this confederation falls appart when the mongols invade
>part of these principalities fall under foreign domination
>another part are vassalized by the mongols
>one of the mongol vassals- muscovy grows powerfull enough and kicks the mongols out
>they conquer the other free rus' states and form the russian empire
>meanwhile the rus' under foreign domination are divided between lithuania(belarussians) and poland(ukrainians)

And it's funny how ukrainians claim decent from the rus yet they don't call themselves russians but "ukrainians".

>>863068

Wikipedia
>There are different hypotheses as to the etymology of the name Ukraine. According to the older and most widespread hypothesis, it means "borderland",[22] while more recently some linguistic studies claim a different meaning: "homeland" or "region, country".[23] "The Ukraine" was once the usual form in English[24] but since the Declaration of Independence of Ukraine, "the Ukraine" has become much less common in the English-speaking world, and style-guides largely recommend not using the definite article.[25][26]
Country pages usually have a section about the nation´s name etymology
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#Etymology
The name of Ukraine aparently has her own page:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

>>863068
kraina means borderland of frontier in every slav language. Krai means "end".

ukraina could mean "in the borderland" or something but i don't know I'm a south slav, maybe it means something else in polish or russian.

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>>863056
Old Ukrainian language had nice-looking calligraphy, by the way.

>>863068
First time the world is seen in writing is Kiev Chronicle for 1187.

>Пepeӕcлaвль нa нocилицaхъ . и тoy пpecтaвиcѧ мc̑цa aпpилѧ . вo . и҃ı дн҃ь и пoлoжeнъ бъıc̑ вo цpк҃ви cт҃гo Mихaилa . и плaкaшacѧ пo нeмь вcи A Пepeӕcлaвци . бѣ бo любѧ дpoyжинoy . и злaтa нe cбиpaшeть имѣниӕ нe щaдѧшeть нo дaӕшeть дpoyжинѣ . бѣ бo кнѧзь дoбpъ . и кpѣпoкъ нa paти . и мoyжьcтвoмъ кpѣпкoмъ пoкaзaӕcѧ . и вcѧкими дoбpoдѣтeлми нaпoлнeнъ. ѡ нeм жe Oyкpaинa мнoгo пocтoнa

Then for 1189 in other chronicle there's a mention of prince moving to "Galician Ukraine".

>>863068
>>863097
Ukrainian nationalists throw a hissy fit when someone calls Ukraine "the Ukraine" or says "on Ukraine" (na Ukraine) instead of "in Ukraine" (v Ukraine"); it implies Ukraine is not a sovereign state but just a bordlerland (usually implied to be that of Russia).

>>863086
>Mongol conquest is not foreign domination

And they say Russians aren't Mongol rape babbies.

>>863115
Can't you read? They were vassals. They paid tribute to the mongols, but they governed themselves. That's how muscow became so powerful, they were the biggest asskissers.

>>863110
>Ukrainian nationalists throw a hissy fit when someone calls Ukraine "the Ukraine" or says "on Ukraine" (na Ukraine) instead of "in Ukraine" (v Ukraine"); it implies Ukraine is not a sovereign state but just a bordlerland (usually implied to be that of Russia).

lol

>>863127
Russians love pulling that bullshit with many countries. Moldova is "Moldavia", Belarus is "Byelorussia" etc.

>>863086
there's also the cossack element, m9
>>862308

>>863132
Is there any particular difference between BelArus and BelOrus, though? Or is the latter just a shortification of Belorussiya?

>>863145
"Belorus" is just a spelling mistake, if anything. Belarusians (notice single s) take offense with "russiya" part.

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>>863145
One word is in Belarusian, the other one in Russian.

Belarusians are the ultimate cucks though, they were so bitchified by the Russians they even forgot their own language, Belarusian is literally the minority language in Belarus right now.

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>>863141
Yes, the cossacks are descendants of the rus' that took to the steppe and adopted the turko-mongol warfare and lifestyle. When Russia conquered the eurasian steppe, cossacs became the personal guard of the tsar, and were loyal to the end when the communists overthrew the monarchy.

>>863145
Belarussians don't have "akanie" which is something typical for Russian, pronouncing "o" as "a'.

For example the name Oleg is pronounced "Aleg" in Russian and Belarussians actually even write it as "Aleg".

>>863173
There's a difference between Zaporozhian and Don cossacks, genius. Zaporozhians were Ukrainians who settled down (sometimes by force) eventually, Don ones were Russians who served czar in exchange for freedoms and got rekt by Bolsheviks.

>>863178
Cossacks, Russians and Ukrainians are the same people.

>>863184
Irish and Scots are the same people.

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>>863184

>>863188
The irish and scots don't have the same ancestor(kievan rus)

>>863178
Weren't zaporozhian cossaks just ukrainians who ran away from serfdom, formed a military society and fended off tatar, polish and russian attacks on ukrainian villages?

>>863189
nice ad hom, the argument of morons. Refute my point or shut your low iq mouth.

>>863184
Since when cossacks became a nationality, not a lifestyle?

>>863184

>People from Azov are the same as people from Novgorod

Russians aren't even the same people as each other.

>>863197
Ireland was originally called Scotia by the Romans.

>>863184
I fucking hate this idiotic reductionism when it comes to Eastern Europe.

>there's a mountain of difference between the Germans and the Dutch
>but everything from Vladivostok to Prague are the same people

>>863208
Hungary is called "Vengria" by russians. What's next.

>>863202
Since Russian larpers thought it was a good idea.

>>863199
That's the gist of it. Don Cossacks are Russians who ran away.

>>863202
Where did i imply they are a nationality? But since you ask, they were actually recognized recently as an ethnic group.

>>863207
That's not how nationality works.

>>863220
>they were actually recognized recently as an ethnic group
I'm a translator, I want to be recognized as an ethnic group too.

>>863220
>Where did i imply they are a nationality?
You've placed two nationalities and a profession in the same row. It's like saying that French, English and laborers were the same people.

>>863211
I guess you have a point there, the difference between dutch and germans is the same as belorussians, ukrainians and russians. They were the same in the middle ages but eventually developed a different identity.

>>863228
The only sane post in this thread.

Why can't germans and christian slavs unite under a single banner like anglos did with the United Kingdom (bar Ireland)?

>>863227
It's not a profession it's a lifestyle. They were distinct from ukarinians and russians who lived in the forests and cities. And as i said, they are an ethnic group now, same as the ukrainians.

>>863228
That's an old misconception. They weren't the same because there was no common nationality to speak of. Kievan Rus had only moved to territorial communities during the period of fragmentation, it was a very loose conglomerate of tribes.

Ethnogenesis of all three nations started around late 12th century.

>>863165
Belarusian forms a dialect continuum with russian iirc, so it's not even that bad. Ukrainian is the odd one out of the group

>>863232
>Why can't [insert nationalities] unite?

Because real life isn't a Paradox game. You don't just overcome 1000 years of cultural differences and grievances just because it would look cool on a map.

Ukraine doesn't exist, they're basically Russian anyway.

Just like how Taiwanese are PRC anyway and Austrians are just German anyway.

Gib clay pls.

>>863234
It's a profession with its own lifestyle. Zaporozhian cossacks were Ukrainian, Don cossacks were Russian.

>>863239
Belarusian forms a dialect continuum with Ukrainian. Some Volhynian-Polesian dialects can't even be put to either language.

>>863235
It's not a misconception, they all identified as "rus".

>>863241
If Austria and Switzerland can have their own countries then why not Ukraine? Why does ethnic identity have to be everything there is to a country? Fucking 19th century memes.

>>863244
They all identified as russians back then so no.

>>863246
How would people living in a territorial community identify with anything? There was a huge difference between Dulibs and Vyatichis originally in the first place, you can't say they were one and the same just because the ruling body was.

>>863251
Russia =/= Rus'

>>863232
>comparing a single tribe like Angles to an entire fucking ethnolinguistic group

Hey! Let's combine all the Bantu speaking people into one country!

Then we can break up the UK and combine England with Canada, USA, Australia, part of South Africa, and mini Australia

>>863259
>and combine England with USA and Australia
that's actually a good idea

>>863246
And everyone in Western Europe used to identify as Frankish

>>863256
>Russia =/= Rus'
Same thing. Rus'=Russia=Ruthenia

>How would people living in a territorial community identify with anything?
they knew who their ancestors were

and if they didn't how can they be ukrainian then? contradicting yourself much?

>>863263
>>863259
also canada needs to be combined with france

>>863264
I don't know about that. They were all referred to as "franks" by outsiders but im not sure they identified as such, except in france proper.

>>863259
>>863232
>>863250
>>863241

>3 Chinese speaking countries
>5 German speaking countries
>20+ Spanish speaking countries
>20+ English speaking countries

BUT THERE SHOULD BE JUST ONE RUSSIAN SPEAKING COUNTRY. ONLY ONE !!!!

>>863272
Balkanization is bad, mmmkay.

>>863250
Because Ukraine belongs to Russia and the people should remember that

There are no Ukrainians

They live in proximity to Russia, share cultural traits, and used to be under Russian dominion

So that makes them Russian

We're all one big nation going back centuries but foreigners but poisonous ideas in their heads

>>863207
>>863211


THIS

>>863266
>Same thing. Rus'=Russia=Ruthenia
It's not. There are differences between all of them in Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish languages.

>and if they didn't how can they be ukrainian then? contradicting yourself much?
Ethnogenesis hadn't started yet back then which is what I stated in my original post. Now go away.

>>863274
>Because Ukraine belongs to Russia and the people should remember that
except lwow

lwow je polandball

>>863280
Polish chauvinism is the worst thing to happen to europe.

>>863272
Why not?

China just forcibly assimilated loads of people in the south, should they cry to the UN and demand their own "free" nations?

It's all chinese now

>>863280
ALL Slavic nations belong to Russia.

Even Finland which is barely slavic.

>>863279
>It's not. There are differences between all of them in Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish languages.
No one cares, the etymology is the same. It means the same thing no matter how you spin it.

>Ethnogenesis hadn't started yet back then which is what I stated in my original post. Now go away.
So cossacks were not ukrainian then? When your argument relies on denying their identity, and claiming they didn't know what they were, you've already lost.

>>863288
Exactly

>>863271

To be fair, the states that appeared after the breakdown of the Caroligian unity kept their Frankish identity for awhile, but they eventually developped other identities.

>>863285
>>863274


>why do people hate Russia
>we dindu nuffin

>>863274
Because Austria belong to Germany and the people should remember that

There are no Austrians

They live in proximity to Germany, share cultural traits, and used to be under HRE dominion

So that makes them German

We're all one big nation going back centuries but foreigners but poisonous ideas in their heads

>>863289
>No one cares, the etymology is the same. It means the same thing no matter how you spin it.
Etymology is the same, the meanings are different.
>So cossacks were not ukrainian then? When your argument relies on denying their identity, and claiming they didn't know what they were, you've already lost.
>>863235
>Ethnogenesis of all three nations started around late 12th century.

Itt: Russians prove their status as niggers of europe

>>863273
German and Italian states during the middle ages were balkanized as fuck and still prospered, I fail to see what the problem is. It's just Russians love to keep gobbling up clay just for the sake of it, as if they didn't have enough already.

>people on this board ACTUALLY think eastern slavic is not a synonym for russian

Bet you niggers wouldn't try to say siberians aren't russian

>>863288
Why should Czech republic belong to Russia?

>>863300
The better meme is people thinking Russian is not a synonym to Tatar.

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>>860171
Ukrainian here, come to school you all about the pale blue dot we call history.

>>863288
Finland has much more in common with other groups already in russia than to sweden or norway ant tha'ts a fact.

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>>863304
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

>>863307
No, it doesn't. Finland is basically just a copypasted Sweden except for their language.

>>863293
Austria unlike germany actually have a culture.

>>863309
and ural genes
and meme mindset
and commie blocks

>>863295
Maybe the ethnogenessis of ukraine and belarus, but russians were russians since the 8th century.

Oleg of novgorod was russian, Svyatoslav of kiev was russian and putin today is russian.

Greece belongs to Turkey and the people should remember that

There are no Greeks

They live in proximity to Turkey, share cultural traits, and used to be under Turkish dominion

So that makes them Turkish

We're all one big nation going back centuries but foreigners but poisonous ideas in their heads

>>863309
t. fennoswede

>>863313
Andrei Bogolyubsky is the one who started Russia.

>>863312
Commieblocks also exist in Sweden.

>Sweden + Finland
Small
Rich
Welfare state
Protestant

>Russia
Huge
Poor as fuck
Doggy-dog society
Orthodox

>>863325
Oleg of Novgorod actually. He's the first Russian ruler. He identified as Russian, so i don't see what's to dispute here.

>>863332
He was a Norman.

>>863326
Poland and Croatia are more successful than Russia, does that make them less Russia-like?

>>863334
So?

Also i mean Rurik obviously, my mistake.

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>>863335
>Poland and Croatia are more successful than Russia

>>863313
Oleg of Novgorod was Nordic
Nicholas II. was German
Lenin was a mutt
Trotsky was a Jew
Stalin was Georgian
Chernenko was Ukrainian
Putin is Veps
Dostoyevsky was Lithuanian
Tschaikovsky was Polish
Korolev was Ukrainian
Pushkin was a nigger
Suvorov was Swedish

Who the fuck are Russians anyway?

>>863345
Temujin was nordic too.

http://marchofthetitans.com/earlson/genghis.htm

>>863335
Croatia is not Russia like in any way.

>warm mediterranean Catholic country

vs

>depressing Orthodox frozen tundra

>>863338
So there was no Russia or Russians at the time. There were assorted East Slavic tribes. Russian nation started forming around Vyatichi one.

>>863345
>Who the fuck are Russians anyway?
Everyone who identifies as russian, i.e. all of the above you mentioned.

And who is ukrainian? No one worth mentioning.

>>863345
>Who the fuck are Russians anyway?
A commune of belarus/ukrainian outcasts raped by the Golden Horde.

>>863350
Sure you didn't fail to click int?

>>863353
>everyone who calls himself a Russian can be a Russian

Just like I suspected, during the 15th and 16th century a bunch of Tatars started calling themselves Russians and somehow carried on with the meme until now.

>>863363
Are you sure anything I wrote is incorrect? Croatia and Russia are literally nothing alike other than both speaking a Slavic language. That's like their only connection.

>>863352
>So there was no Russia or Russians at the time
There were after Rurik founded Russia.

Again to prove Ukrainian identity exists you have to deny the existence of a Russian identity. I've heard it all before, you Ukrainians aren't unique with your identity crisis.

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>>863326
>doggy-dog

>>863374
>There were after Rurik founded Russia.
Rus' isn't Russia.

>>861406
hahahahaha

Real russia has never been tried.

>>863376
Of course it is, what are you even talking about?

>>863350
Serbia is near Croatia yet it's considered to be the most Russia-like in all of Europe besides Russia itself.

>>863387
And Romania is Rome.

>>863376
Yes of course, people in the middle ages were retards, they thought they were russian and reffered to themselves and their language as russian but they were actually ukrainian the whole time.

>>863367
see>>863374
your identity crisis is showing

>>863388
Because of their affinity for Russians, historical alliances and Orthodoxy. Which is not applicable to Croatia.

>>863390
There is no continuity between romania and rome.

There is continuity between rus and russia.

>>863399
What identity crisis, I'm not Ukrainian. I'm not even sure whether they have internet in Ukraine.

>>863399
Rus' isn't "Rossiya". "Rossiya" was coined up in late 17th century and adopted in 1721.

Is it better now?

>>863407
Yes, Russia means land of the rus'. In latin it's Ruthenia, same meaning. I don't see how this disproves what i said.

>>863422
Rus' means Rus' and Russia means Russia.

Why should the Muscovites have a monopoly on Russia?

Does rus come from the slavic for for blonde? I know slav stems from the slavic word for glory."

>>863439
>for for
*word for

>>863439
No, it comes from the Swedish Rus (Roslagen) Vikings.

>>863439
Slav comes from Slavic word for WORD.

Slovo = word
Sloveni = people who speak the word
Nemci = mute people who cannot speak the word (originally it meant foreigners, nowadays it means Germans)

>>863457
>Nemci = mute people who cannot speak the word (originally it meant foreigners, nowadays it means Germans)
top banter

>>863457
Slav is shorthand for sclavus

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sclavus

>>863479
Your own link suggests it's derived from a Slavic word rather than other way around.

>>863485
You mean people on /his/ actually read links that are posted?
Wow, perhaps it's the only board on whole 4chan that does that.

>>863345

So is Brezhnev the only leader of Russia who was ever truly Russian?

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>>863503

>>863503
Probably. But I love how Russians ITT are flip flopping between

>everyone who identifies as a Russian is a Russian!

and

>you are Russian because you have Russian blood, who cares about what you identify as!

Just another example of Russian doublethink.

Russia being united by the Muscovite Tatar lackeys is probably the greatest historical catastrophe of Eastern Europe, even worse than communism. If the civilized Novgorod did it instead, maybe Russia wouldn't turn out a complete shithole.

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>>863307
The finnish-russian comparison stems from their ural/siberian connection.

>>863534
Rate finnish yurt.

http://www.mtv.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/artikkeli/ei-parakkiin-vaan-jurttaan-nain-ekaluokkalaiset-vaistavat-sisatilan-ongelmia/4518190

>>863524
Russia would've definitely been better off with multiple individual states instead of as a single state with a menacing head (european Russia) but a huge and weakened body (the rest of it).

>>863557
Yep. Notice how Germany or Italy first propped up their economies and living standarts as a bunch of powerful individual small states before uniting. Muscovites did it in an ass backwards way, flat out conquering states that were economically ravaged by the Mongols.

>>863132
Russians have their own language and right to call any country whatever they want.
Yes, we like -ia ending, so? Is it bad? It's our language so fuck off with your claim.

>>862720
Little late but still - in Slavic countries, feudalism was... not really strong, people tell a lot about Druzhina but they rarely say what it was.

You see Druzhina was few-thousands people big army Slavic princes or kings had. The country was their private property, the peasants had to pay taxes for them but were essentially free people.

There were sort of local governors who's main purpose was to keep a bunch of fortified castles-keeps which were meant to accommodate the king/prince and his Druzhina when they were travelling around the country, actually governing things.

Needless to say this system began to crumble when the countries got bigger and required more administration. Not that it didn't worked at all it just wasn't very effective when the monarch was weak, old, ill etc. and the country faced harder times.

That's how the Druzhina memebers(prominent ones) and the governors became noblemen with their fiefs and lances to bring in case of war. It's arguable that peasants were still not-that-much-of a serfs but they weren't free anymore, that's for sure, they were also slowly loosing their rights.

Then the black death came and serfdom in Western Europe effectively started to disappear. In Poland of course, black death never came so the excess of manpower guaranteed that serfdom will be there for longer. During the attempts to reunify balkanised Poland in 13th and 14th century the rulers who wanted to be the next kings of the country(including foreign dynasties) offered the nobility more and more privileges in exchange of bigger support during the war. The whole thing began much worse when Jagiellons started ruling, where increased priviledges became a currency in establishing legitimacy of the dynasty. Then after the establishment of sejm and elective monarchy it got worse and worse.

>>863326
>Doggy-dog society
That's cute.

>>863970
I don't recall how it looked like in Russia but as far as I remember the basics were the same - Muscovy needed more support from the boyars so they've enforced harsher serfdom.

The reason why I've said neo-feudalism was that it skyrocketed AFTER the black plague and became even harsher than the feudalism Western Europe has ever seen while the Western Europe went in exact opposite direction.

>>863524

The problem was the Bolsheviks who suppressed all non-russians causing a huge divide and a depleted and angry people while all the stuff that was taken from them did not lead to any technical achievements of note

hell, the russian economy right now is in shambles still from the collapse since oligarchs still hold considerable power over the selling of resources (Putin has made them mostly subservient to the state), which has lead to a volatile market for russian goods. There are very few well developed local markets sourcing things like foodstuffs because of high entry restrictions and low competition. Sorry, kinda rambled all over the place

>>863970
That form of government is akin to what the Late Roman empire practiced. The field armies would roll around with the emperor and would hold court on the move. After their collapse, this was practiced in miniature up until the middle ages. Henry the II of England is a notable example of this form of government tirelessly on the move holding court.

But you are correct that the Black Death shattered the institution and brought about its collapse in the west. Once the nobility could no longer force people to stay on the land and farm it, competition entered the labor market. This lead to the concentration of labor where they were most effecient, and allowed the land that was marginal to be enclosed and used for things like sheep in England.

>>863132
-ia is ending for name of countries, comes from Greek language. It's used almost for all european cunt names in Russian languages. But there are few exceptions: Polsha (Poland), Litva (Lithuania), Ukraina (Ukraine).

>>864007
Core of Bolsheviks were Jews and they suppressed all what was Russian.

>>864048
Stalin changed it.

>>864024
>cunt names

Fuck off back to /int/

>>863970
As far as Russia goes, it has never had any kind of feudalism because it lacked the main prerequisite for that: recognition of land as private property. Muscovite nobility got land in exchange for service. When they stopped the service, they got kicked out. In mid 18th - early 20th century that changed but apparently that period was not enough to change the idea of land ownership substantially. In Ruthenian lands it was obviously the exact opposite.

Russians have a very peculiar concept of private property in general to this day, the other main reason being peasants settling in tight-knit communities where laziness of one person was compensated by efforts of everyone.

>>864007
>oligarchs still hold considerable power over the selling of resources
That is a common misconception. However, Russia is not an oligarchy at all if we go by definition of the word. Rather than having several clans which constantly fight between each other and such infighting creating a balance of power of sorts - how it was in Ukraine essentially, though it's changing now, it seems - it's the same concept of property as service. Any "oligarch" in Russia has about as much power as a Muscovite nobleman. He's "renting" the property, so to speak. If he opposes the czar or just doesn't want to share properly, he gets the boot.

That's a really interesting situation to witness, by the way. People say that communism changed nations, yet they actually roll back to their best known model of governance before resuming development once the front had fallen.

>>864048
Then 1930s came and Stalin restored same Russian imperial ideology.

>>864058
>it has never had any kind of feudalism
Russia had serfdom as late as in 1865

>>864068
Serfdom, yes. Feudalism, no - no land ownership. Though I guess you could stretch it a bit if you count period from Peter III's manifesto on nobility's freedoms to end of serfdom.

I am told that the countryside and the women are very pretty.

Shame about the whole being invaded thing.

>>864058
That is the situation NOW
which is a development in the last 10-15 years
the oligarchs were suppressed by Putin

Prior to his rise to power, gas was being exported from Russia on the cheap and the money was being sent abroad to places like France where the oligarchs that controlled the gas built huge mansions with the money while the people suffered

Now as you said, if they don't support Putin the Czar, they get the booty and a person loyal to the government is put in place. While this system has managed to uplift the average russian from derelict poverty, 8,000-22,000 prior to Crimea, it only operates because a strong leader avoids the temptation of enriching himself.

>>864095
>Now as you said, if they don't support Putin the Czar, they get the booty and a person loyal to the government is put in place. While this system has managed to uplift the average russian from derelict poverty, 8,000-22,000 prior to Crimea, it only operates because a strong leader avoids the temptation of enriching himself.

Putin is the richest man in the world, 40 billion something.

>>864095
It's more akin to defeating organized crime by taking it over. We've got 25 year rule, though, so I'd rather not go into a long argument here.

>>864107

He nots not as rich as he could be if he was operating on an extractive prerogative. He's making investments into the state to make certain sectors more efficient, modernizing them.

This hinged on the wealth of gas to support it though.

>>864110

That is a very apt way to put it, he's made the organized crime more efficient so the whole society has reaped benefits from a well ran mob until the people are ready to take over

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>>860171
ukrainians are everything russia ever wished to be but failed miserably; unlike the silly ruskies, they aren't absolute shit at war and their existance isn't frowned upon by the rest of the world and the only thing they share with the russians is that both their people are pretty good looking (except from the rural russian areas, where for some reason both men and women are ugly as fuck)

so yeah, ukranians are in the same tier as poland, scotland and even portugal - honorable countries with very interesting people that ultimately got fucked in the ass by the major powers and their filthy ways
while russia is on par with germany, turkey, israel, best korea, etc at being some of the most cancerous places on earth and deserves to be in the top5 of most nukable places

>>864167
too much salo/10

>>864167
>people are pretty good looking

That's something I happened to notice, Ukrainian women tend to be literal 10/10 goddesses while Russian women range from bleh to straight up Mongol tier.

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>>864233
Many people who call themselves Russian are technically assimilated indigenous peoples of Russian colonies. However, assimilation doesn't always go beyond the mindset. Finno-Ugric peoples tend to be particularly ugly, especially Erzya for some reason. Erzyan men tend to look like they've been drinking non stop since they had been born.

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>>864255
So this is where their babushka genes come from

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So /his/ i have been wondering are Americans a meme? I have seen a lot of people claim they are Anglos or that they are a mix of Scots-Irish, Germans, and natives. is there any truth to what they say or is it just nationalists spouting bullshit?

>>861440
Novorussians.
:3

>>864322
Americans are asians from siberia who crossed the bering strait.

>>864344
>Injens
>Americans

Nice meme. Wildlife doesn't count, only people who actually built the country.

>>864371
Literally.
http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2012/09/the-mohawks-who-built-manhattan-photos.html

>>864384
WE WUZ SKYSCRAPERS N SHIET

>>864344

the vast majority of the descendants of those people didn't start referring to themselves as "American" until the 20th century

>>864054
Even Stalin could not fully negate their influence.
And they returned with Khruschev.

>>861824

Austrians are also just meme Germans. "Eastern realm?" Really Austria? Get your shit together.

>>860197
Don't forget that the Nords controlled Kiev in the 10 and 11th centuries before assimilating into the populace. Their dynasty remained for a while though in some lineage.

>>861475
This
Pls help /his/

>>863068
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/kraj%D1%8C

>>861475
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Chronicle

>>860171
While Ukraine has a separate language and culture, they will be seen as separate from Russia