What was Vercingetorix's mistake?

He had no dicipline in his ranks

Getting himself caught

>>857705
Being a Gaul

>At this time, the living conditions in Alesia were worsening. With 80,000 soldiers and the local population, too many people were crowded inside the plateau competing for too little food. The Mandubii decided to expel the women and children from the citadel, hoping to save food for the fighters and hoping that Caesar would open a breach to let them go. This would also be an opportunity for breaching the Roman lines. But Caesar issued orders that nothing should be done for these civilians and the women and children were left to starve in the no man's land between the city walls and the circumvallation.
Damn, Caesar, you scary.

>>857863
So Vercingetorix mistake was believing Caesar wouldn't be a piece of shit ?

>>857867
Yeah

>>857793
This, desu

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>>857863
Is this what made Caesar so good at what he did?
Did he live in a day and age where men lived by a code of honor and morality that he simply ignored.
Was he the only man on earth who was just playing to win?

>>858867
It doesn't seem to just be that, he is also very good at being a sneaky piece of shit.
I am sure not everyone lived by "honor and morality"

>>858867
I don't know about gauls, but romans were always quite brutal at war.

>>857705
He underestimated the power of corn.

>>857863
source

>>858901
>romans were always quite brutal at war.

The Battle of Watling Street certainly lends credence to this.

>>859412
Suetonius was the governor Britannia needed but not the one it deserved, fuck Nero.

>>857705
Going against a stronger foe.

>>857793
That wasn't part of his master plan

>>859412
>At approximately forty yards, their advance was staggered by a volley of Roman pila, the Roman javelin. The pilum was designed to bend when it hit a shield, making it impossible to pull out; the enemy would either be encumbered with a heavy iron spear weighing down his shield, or have to discard it and fight unprotected A second volley followed, as each Roman legionary carried two pila. This tactic destroyed any organised advance by the Britons.

Why don't we call Romans "spear chuckers"?

>>857705
Staying in Alesia and not using his superior numbers to envelop the Romans and crush them. Even with more discipline superior numbers are a bitch to go up against. Caesar probably would have shied away from a direct confrontation on open field.

>>858867
What made him good is he tried to turn ever disadvantage into an advantage.

>enemy in fortified position on top of hill?
>incoming enemy force to my rear?
>build containment wall around hill fort AND around myself.

Most commanders probably would have fucked off, which wouldn't have been the wrong thing to do. Caesar found a third option and made it work.

>>859902
Because they did it when it was the cool thing cool dudes did. If youkeep doing it when other people have guns though, then you're a dork.

>>859948
>>857705

>Staying in Alesia and not using his superior numbers to envelop the Romans and crush them.

Very much this. He lacked the experience in fortress-based warfare, his own background in a raiding culture sees a fortress as a safe respite, but Caesar understood that hiding in a fortress is a terrible mistake, since it isolates you from your own supporters.

>>859948
>Staying in Alesia and not using his superior numbers to envelop the Romans and crush them

To give him some credit though, he most likely thought defending a fortification with superior numbers was the best solution and if they tried to starve him he could trust his allies to relieve the siege. Anyways, as you mentioned Caesar being Caesar found another way.

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>>859948
At first glance that double containment/fortification tactic seems like a good way to spread yourself thin.
>look the romans built a wall and a fort
>look the romans are getting assaulted
>let's assault the wall while they're busy
It's almost inviting a two fronted engagement, but it would appear Caesar was bold enough to try it.

>>859978
>Anyways, as you mentioned Caesar being Caesar found another way.
Here's the thing though, the "other way" while manoeuvring forces IS fucking right off, had Caesar been in a position where two larger hostile forces were moving around he'd have had to retreat and but something solid on one of his flanks or assure encirclement of his forces.

Staying put is exactly what he needed Vercingetorix to do which is why he wasn't going to let him off that hill.

alright who was the best legate?

>inb4 Sabinus

>>860005
Not many can think as in depth as that though. All I'm saying is that their thought process was something like this probably:

>we have the numbers to beat them in the field
>why don't we use this fortification so we can beat them with much less losses, plus we can also try and trap them once the relief force comes

Many among their ranks most likely supported this simple idea, which they thought was some juicy advantage but yet again, Caesar...

>>857863
>Caesar issued orders that nothing should be done for these civilians and the women and children were left to starve
w-wait what? Did the Gauls actually think the romans would feed and shelter Gaulish Women and children?

>>860854
>Did the Gauls actually think the romans would feed and shelter Gaulish Women and children?
I think it was more along the lines of "let them leave" rather than "feed and shelter"

>>857863
>we'll just send our women and children to the enemy and nothing will happen :DD

Why were Gauls so goddamn retard

>>860866
but nothing did happen, that was the whole problem.

>>857863
You expect them to give food to the Gauls?

>>857705

didn't unite the tribes earlier

>>860862
okay that makes a great deal more sense. Still its odd that they expected any mercy from the enemy

>>857705
>guy on the right wearing segmentata
>52 bc

REEEEE

>>857795
/thread

>>857795
Fuck off
Where are you from, btw ?

>>861793
>Gaul reenactors

>>861781
Or, you know, the fact that Verc is allowed to ride within inches of Cesar, with his weapons, or that Cesar is wearing politicians clothing instead of military attire, or any of the crazy oriental clothing seen on Verc which is fantasy-tier at best, or the fact that Verc never threw his weapons down in front of Cesar in the first place but was actually brought in chains to Rome and strangled publicly. The painting is just fantastical art Anon.

How was Alesia fought? Was it an onslaught on the Roman walls or did the Romans sally out? In Rome it was depicted as being fought on open ground.

>>862371
"Rome" is not exactly the most historically accurate show

>>857705
Opposing Rome

>>862371
>>862378
Rome is generally more accurate than most media I'd say but it gets literally everything it shows about the Gauls completely wrong, which is depressing because some other aspects of it are so meticulously researched.

>>862164
Where are you from ?

>>862628
>that space before a question mark

oh my silly Frenchies

>>857793
>>857964
>>859864
Was this what the plane scene was based on?

>>862721
>not putting space before a question mark

WHERE ARE YOU FROM ?

>>862745
lol is that seriously normal in France? I've always wondered why so many people do that.

>>857705
Poor communication with his reinforcements.
Other than that he did amazingly, just got outplayed by Ceasar.

>>862767
Vercingetorix would have been remembered along side Hannibal Arminius and Sharpur as the big problem makers for Rome if Caesar wasn't the coolest fucking guy

>>862834
Nah.

Brennos was a bigger troublemaker for Rome than any of those and he's not remembered.

>>860925
Actually a lot of roman citizens in italy criticised caesar for his treatment of the gauls! There were calls to strip him of his rank purely for warcrimes

>>862753
I don't know, it's just...natural

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>>863164
based Brennos

>>857705
He didn't break out on the Romans early enough.

>>857705
Being born fighting against Caesar.

>>859864
WELL CONGRATULATIONS, HE GOT HIMSELF CAUGHT! NOW WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP IN HIS MASTER PLAN?

>>863619
Crashing the gauls with no survivors

Being a proto-frogfaggot.

Did he invent surrendering?

>>863858
>>863865
Fuck off

>>863878
How about you fuck off surrender monkey, nobody gives a shit about your boring gay ass shit.

>>863193
Wasn't it more for conducting war without approval from the senate? The idea of warcrimes is a rather modern notion

By trying to stop Caesar

>>859034
U serious?
Never heard about "de bello gallico"? You better order that shit right now.

>>864286
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres. I'll never get that fuckin line out of my head since I had fuckin Caesar as main source for translation assignments in my last year of Latin. Fuckin worst choice of writer ever.

>>864214
It was more that, caesars conduct and treatment of the gaulic people was seen as horrific and cruel- and people were calling for a change of command, it wasnt 'war crimes' in the very defined way we see it today, ill find source tomorrow

>>862378
"Rome" is people who actually knew something about Rome telling a story, not writing a documentary; dramatic license abounds.

>>858867
>Did he live in a day and age where men lived by a code of honor and morality that he simply ignored.
You now realize that nowadays this situation would be counted against Vercy because he endangered civilians to attempt to gain a tactical advantage. It was really just a real shit idea more than Caesar being pitiless.

>>862193
>politicians clothing instead of military attire
???
He's wearing the traditional military red sagum and you can see pteruges too. He's wearing nothing a soldier wouldn't wear back then.

bumo

just a reminder: it's pronounced 'Verkingetorix' not 'Versingetorix'
it's also Kaesar, not See-Zah

>>862378
Name one that is more accurate. Hardmore: no WW2. You pretty much can't.

>>867290
caligula

>>867294
No.

>>867290
Master and Commander

>>867300
Movie, not a show.

>>867303
Deadwood

>>867305
Okay that's a good pick honestly.

The major fuck up was the only a part of the rescue army did something. If all the army attacked, Cesar would have been btfo.

Gauls would have probably be submitted later though. But it would have been way harder.

>>857705
>What was Vercingetorix's mistake?

Not continuing his scorched earth campaign and setting fire to Alesia and moving on, only fighting once all the gauls are united.
It was coming soon, too. Practically all gauls were at the siege, they just couldnt ever unite their forces or coordinate a simultaneous attack with the romans entrenched between them.

If he destroyed the city like he intended, instead of listening to advice to keep it because its the priced jewel of the people or whatever, he could've won.

>>857863
If I were a roman entrepreneur there I'd take all these women and sell them into slavery. Free money!

>>863257
the two redhead women... ??? Gaulic slaves?

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>>867281
>just a reminder: it's pronounced 'Verkingetorix' not 'Versingetorix'
>it's also Kaesar, not See-Zah
it's whatever the fuck I want to call it (Cee-Zur).

Tamerlane not "تيمور لنگ" or "Timūr(-e) Lang".

I will make your name fit my language mothra-fucka

>>867344
>burn it
>half the confederation says "reeeeeeee fuck you this city was our people's greatest achievement" and leaves

>>864028
me ? A surrender monkey ? I bet you're an anglo pussy

Caesar was always ready to cut a deal, with just about anyone.

Ol' Verktrix should have cut a deal instead of trying to defeat the Romans.

>>861793
>barbarian detected

>>867421
red hair was pretty common and isn't unique to northern europeans

>>865001
Did this public outrage help lead to the senates distaste for him and the civil war?

>>859864
>>862731
>>863619
>>863649
>2016
>Baneposting still always makes me giggle

Truly the GOAT meme.

>>857705

Sat in the city and literally watched the Romans BUILD WALL. And then he paid for it.

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>>867429
>>867429

>>858909

kek

>>859034

Literally every account of the siege of Alessia

>>868828
Absolutely, and also the fact that he became filthy fucking rich through the campaign and that his legions were utterly devoted to him, over the senate- which led the senate to favour pompey

>>868802
And I'm proud of it

Am I the only one who finds Vercingetorix's loss to be genuinely depressing? It basically meant the eventual destruction of the Gaul's culture.

>>867281
Wouldn't it be Werkingetorix?

Also, I agree with this guy >>867429 for the time being the Anglos are the winners of the language game, so suck it.

>>870880
Man

>>870883
Hey man, they'll eventually get deposed and someone else can dictate the rules. But even the Roman Catholic church doesn't use the same rules as classic Latin, so quibbling over pronunciation is just pure spergery.

>>857705
Resisting.

>>861793
magna germania of course

>>870880
>the Anglos are the winners of the language game

Funny since in both cases the English pronunciation differs from Germanic (and from what would have been old Anglish) because it adopted French pronunciation.

>>870880
The switch to the soft C in Caesar happened in Romance though.

So could vercing have really conquered Rome if caesar was defeated at Alesia?