Can Marxism be co-opted by the right?

The concepts of 'left' and 'right' are so poorly defined at this point it appears that their only features is being opposed to the others

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>>819870
>progressivist
>(that is, non-left-wing),
>anti-liberal
>right-wing ideology

Time for your meds

>>819870
The right-left dichotomy is deficient.

The corruption of Socialism into some twisted form of Russian nationalism is one of the great tragedies of history.

It was supposed to be the International Soviet, not the "Soviet motherland".

Fuck Stalin.

marxism can be both left wing and right wing, even at the same time

>>819895
Wrong. It was its redemption and de-judaicization.

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Marx was a Nazi before it was cool.

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>>819895
>implying the conditions of the pre-WW2 didn't require the suspension of internationalist focus so that the bastion of world socialism could materially develop
>implying socialism in one country didn't in fact prevent the early collapse of the USSR by the hands of the Axis
>implying the fact that the internationalists failed to create successful revolutions outside of the Soviet periphery didn't itself prove that communist ideology needed to develop ideologically in the rest of the world while socialist economy needed to develop in the USSR, to be ready for when the people would awaken from their slumber
>implying that even if the USSR could send its troops to every country and install Soviets that this wouldn't be imperialism and counter-revolutionary
>implying Marxism should be idealist and not materialist

>>819936
>hey guys I didn't read this book LOL XD

>>819950
>What, in itself, was the basis of the Jewish religion? Practical need, egoism.

>The monotheism of the Jew, therefore, is in reality the polytheism of the many needs, a polytheism which makes even the lavatory an object of divine law. Practical need, egoism, is the principle of civil society, and as such appears in pure form as soon as civil society has fully given birth to the political state. The god of practical need and self-interest is money.

>Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal self-established value of all things. It has, therefore, robbed the whole world – both the world of men and nature – of its specific value. Money is the estranged essence of man’s work and man’s existence, and this alien essence dominates him, and he worships it.

>The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange.
Not even a book, a short essay.

>>819977
>getting autistic about semantics

>>819984
Contrary to belief, criticism of Judaism/Jews doesn't constitute Nazism.

>>819977
>muh eugenics

>>820000
Quads quonfirm

>>820000
Six million died in vain, I see.

What Marx got wrong imo is that he thought class relations were ontological determinants when they are in fact just that, relations. Whenever and wherever those relations exist there the slave-master dialectic, class warfare etc will play out, but not outside of those relations. Human beings are not reducible to their social class.

Thread raises some interesting questions for me:

1. What does it mean to be "right"-leaning?

There are some other questions, but they only emerge depending on how you start to answer question no.1 in the context of this thread.

My take:
All right-wing extremism creates an image of a family unit over-layed atop the political unit;- usually around the concept of 'the father' (i.e. the Fatherland). The father offers support only to 'the legitimate' children [of the state]. The Father has an investment into some kindof origin story of the character for the family unit. As far as I can see, depending on how your going to fudge your judgement on history in order to produce an origin story, is going to determine how vulgar the cultural fascism expresses itself. All these elements essentially put heavy restrictions on the libertarian notion of freedom for conscious belief (ideology and its supremacy through thought-control and propaganda is its staple for sustaining this kind of nation-state). It bears mentioning, that this tactic was carried-over, ever since the European world wars, and is employed on some level in most western-styled states.

The Nazi party branded itself a Socialist party, and it some respects it was, but one must never forget that its Socialism is only every done through a Nationalist imperative, that has to mirror the origin story that the 'the father' holds as its force of integrity.

These forms of government are incredibly ideologically fragile, and require increasing levels of thought-control to sustain the integrity of their policies against the natural inclination of (at least some people) to 'speak truth to power'.

Generally the only way to sustain such systems is to develop greater and greater forms of vulgar racism in order to sustain the feelings of purity, which are naturally far too inhuman to believe-in with just sociological-based propaganda; without a proper individual psychological component added to the rhetoric.

>>820067
Good job

>>820067
cont...

But its pretty hard to add a proper individual psychological rhetoric, because psychology is in a very undeveloped mode, and so the models used by these forms of politics are just a weird kind of personality cult's that never interface uniformly with the minds of a population.

It's hard for me to describe exactly what I'm trying to say: but basically- most forms of politics, but most overtly right-wing politics, are really just personality-cults (I don't mean the ideation of a figure head necessarily, but an ideation of a fudged principle of supreme-order, which is very appealing to certain forms of personality types: and so you will find the same 'pseudo-intellectual' types with their own brands of history, story-telling, racist-sentiments that bring order to their psychological reality:- its to with the individuals relation to the world-power-authority).

Black Nationalists for example are literally no different from the Nazi Party in the style of their ideology, and the brand of their 'solution'.

>>820105
I fucked up some grammar...
key-:
{{{ }}}= what was left out!

CORRECTED QUOTE:
its to {{{{do}}}} with the individuals relation to the world-power-authority).

The level of cognitive dissonance ITT is off the charts. Everyone seems to think they are on the same page when in fact they aren't.

Gonna check out in a few hours. See you faggoys.

>>820067
>'the father' (i.e. the Fatherland). The father offers support only to 'the legitimate' children [of the state]
The commies had a thing they called fatherland too, the legitimate children were the revolutionary, so if you disagreed with them, instead of being a subhuman, you were a counter-revolutionary, a fascist AND a subhuman.

>>820105
>most forms of politics, but most overtly right-wing politics, are really just personality-cults
They put skulls on their uniforms also because they're not trying to sugarcoat things.

Left and right are the same shit, the right wing is just a bit more honest about what they do.

From a right-wing perspective, seeing that the left has betrayed the working class and is now making common choir with great capital in favor of mass immigration into advanced industrialized nations, it is only fitting that they be denounced as the traitors they are and that the right takes the leadership of the worker's movement as Mussolini and Hitler did.

>>819895
>the only marxism that worked was wrong

Shut up, westerncuck.

>>820137

Russia was not Socialist, the Bolsheviks killed all the people who said "power to the Socialists".

Stop relying on crappy American history teachers/professors. Stop relying on stupid text books twisted to suit the politics of the Cuban Missile crisis and the Cold War in general.

I'm not going to talk further on the stupid people who derail discussion of any real substance.

The USSR is not left simply because America and itself agreed that it was the left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQsceZ9skQI

If I could blacklist hearing the opinions of anyone who dismisses Noam Chomsky I would. Might actually be able to create edifying intellectual exchange 9 times out of 10 (I bet.)

>>820184
>real socialism was never tried!

>>820225
I never said that idiot, Nordic European states have proper democratic-Socialism, and its fully operational.

I don't believe in Socialism myself: in the Marxist tradition (which I essentially hold to); Socialism is just a inbetween stage for re-ordering society after the Bourgeoisie state is overthrown;- I don't believe there needs to a public revolution, the tools exist to a have a totally peaceful revolution, that could even use the corporate form as a vehicle for those goals, I detail some of this in the political/economic blogs posts on my tumblr: stevenw8.tumblr.com

>>820225
He's not saying that at all, he's correctly pointing out that the Bolsheviks obliterated the genuine socialists in relatively short order and tried to coerce their way to communism, which was conveniently vague enough for them to pretend they were making progress while constructing a totalitarian state totally opposed to basic Marxist principles.

>>819870
Marx thought the human being was enlightened enough to share everything. Humans are animals, not gods.
Marxism is anti-natural and what doesn't follow nature is decimated by it.

>>820239
>Nordic European states have proper democratic-Socialism

WEW

>>820247
Have you ever actually read Marx?

>>820253
What did I say that was wrong?

>>820260
Literally everything, since "sharing" is how your retarded uncle would describe socialism at thanksgiving.

>>820239
>capitalism with high taxes
>socialism works!
Now it is I who ask you: have you read Marx? Because he explicitly rejects that in the Critique of the Gotha Program.
It is ironic that the last straw Marxist have to grasp as "proof" socialism works is a brand of socialism explicitly rejected by Marx.

>>820513
Literally no Marxist points to Sweden as proof of functional Socialist.

That's also not the same guy as >>820253

>>820267
>implying that's fundamentally wrong

Don't be retarded.

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Reminder that when Marx talks about the destruction of a "class" and "race" he means the proletariat, that is wage labor, as it is constituted in capitalism. He means wage labor shall perish, not the living humans who formerly sold their labor power.

>another round of apocalypse-harbinging elitists who hate poor people
yawn

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>>820752
G-guys, when Marx says race he doesn't really mean race. And when he says destruction he doesn't actually mean destruction, because that would be bad!

Source: my ass.

>>820859
Translation:
"The Jewish nigger Lassalle, who fortunately leaves at the end of this week, has happily again lost 5,000 Thaler in a fraudulent speculation. The fellow would rather throw money in the dirt than make a loan to a 'friend' even if interest and capital are guaranteed. He acts on the view that he must live like a Jewish baron or baronised (probably via the Countess) Jew." (Letter dated July 30, 1862; Vol. 3, Marx-Engels Correspondence, German edition, page 82.)

>>820870
https://books.google.de/books?id=vz-4LDWCnlAC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=marx+lassalle+black+with+jew&source=bl&ots=MsXc4NVK_m&sig=cQ0CsWEdG6tzKCzhqVpxVPUw_XI&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjguou8krrLAhXld5oKHWsVCskQ6AEIOTAD#v=onepage&q=marx%20lassalle%20black%20with%20jew&f=false

>>820893
In a July 1862 letter to Engels, in reference to his socialist political competitor, Ferdinand Lassalle, Marx wrote, “… it is now completely clear to me that he, as is proved by his cranial formation and his hair, descends from the Negroes from Egypt, assuming that his mother or grandmother had not interbred with a nigger. Now this union of Judaism and Germanism with a basic Negro substance must produce a peculiar product. The obtrusiveness of the fellow is also nigger-like.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2006/06/36692/#yAub04CJvQioOCPo.99

>>820902
Concerning the annexation of California after the Mexican-American War, Marx wrote: “Without violence, nothing is ever accomplished in history.” Then he asks, “Is it a misfortune that magnificent California was seized from the lazy Mexicans who did not know what to do with it?” Friedrich Engels, Marx’s co-author of the “Manifesto of the Communist Party,” added, “In America, we have witnessed the conquest of Mexico and have rejoiced at it. It is to the interest of its own development that Mexico will be placed under the tutelage of the United States.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2006/06/36692/#yAub04CJvQioOCPo.99

>>820912
Oh the sweet, sweet cognitive dissonance.

Queue ready-made responses: his racial views were due to prejudices of the time, but his economic theories are universally valid forever!