Daily Orthobro thread. Get in here, fellow believers.

>>813903
Please leave

Whats the main differences between orthodox and catholic?

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>>814455
>Come to the Dark Side

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>>814455
Roman Catholic - "The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son"

Orthodox - "The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father THROUGH the Son"

>>814455

One pope, ten popes.

>>814485
I thought Orthobros went:

"...proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son..."

With no mention of Jesus in the HS' proceeding.

>>813887
John 20:22
And when He (Jesus) had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

You know, in case either of you cares what the bible says.

>>814455
Orthodox see heaven and hell as the same
Orthodox don't have juridical conception of sin.
Orthodox reject just war theory
Orthodox reject heritable sin
Orthodox use leavened bread for the Eucharist
Orthodox give Communion to infants
Orthodox don't use instruments in Liturgical music
Orthodox reject most Medieval artistic styles
Orthodox much, much more actively pray and bow before, and kiss, icons
Orthodox reject Pope as Caesar or as having the power to define dogma on his own
Orthodox reject the idea that one man can be Christ's successor, as that is literally God's successor
Orthodox do not define the persons of the Trinity just by relation
Orthodox think praying for mercy and fasting are more important for knowing God than reading
Orthodox have always supported the laity reading Scripture
Orthodox have much stricter fasting standards
Orthodox allow the use of condoms in marriage
Orthodox permit divorce for very select reasons, but are much less permissive of annulment than Catholics
Orthodox select bishops from monasteries, but allow priests to be married
Orthodox do not recognize Protestant baptism except retroactively in the case of converts, whereas Catholics do
Orthodox do not recognize Catholic baptism, whereas Catholics recognize Orthodox baptism
Orthodox do not believe in immaculate conception
Orthodox distinguish between Hades (Sheol) and Gehenna, but not believe in Purgatory
Orthodox worship is standing
Orthodox do not consider the possibility of universal reconciliation to be heresy, just the idea that it is sure to happen
Orthodox conceive of God as having energies (Grace) distinct for his essence, yet still 100% God, whereas Catholics subscribe to actus purus

There's a lot more besides

>>814499
That is correct, but Orthodox dogma is that the Spirit proceeds by the Son, as Scripture and the Church Fathers attest to it. We don't say it in the Creed because changing the Creed is a very serious thing. We do, however, reject the idea of "from the Son" as extremely erroneous, and that isn't just nitpicking, since the filioque leads to other theological errors, such as Aquinas saying the persons of the Trinity are only distinguished by relationship

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>>814499
Pic related is how it was explained to me.

>>814681
>Orthodox think praying for mercy and fasting are more important for knowing God than reading
and this is why orthodox theology is primitive tier

>>814722
What do you mean? Which works of Orthodox theology have you read?

The Orthodox school of theology is in the same vein as Christ's school of theology

>>814455
catholicism: christianity for normal people
protestantism: christianity for strong independent women who dont need no man
orthodoxy: christianity for orientaboo hipsters who literally believe the roman empire lasted until 1453

>>814455
Papal authority
On literally everything else common ground has been reached. The people that don't know this are ignorant of Catholic or Orthodox doctrines and teachings

>>>/x/ is that way schoolchildren

>>814904
>this is what Roman Catholics actually believe

>>814485
so its basically the concept of trinity, or the relations within it?

Daily reminder that Orthodox get mad about Catholic interpretation of minor theology like the filioque, but have no problem with complete and utter heresy in regards to Christ's nature like what the Coptics assert.
Disgusting hypocrites.

>>813887
Hey Constantine, you worthless piece of shit - I have a legitimate question.

Do you know any orthodox tracker for English materials?
Let's say I want Romanides books which are translated in english but I was unable to find any .pdf which I find pretty fucked up - in Romanian I'm able to find every single book ever translated in digital format and read it, except a specific Romanides book...

Where would I be able to find books, digital materials - orthodoxy related?

>>814962
what do the Coptic's assert?

Also a question for everyone: opinion on Arianism please.

>>814962
The way Cathocucks see Christ nature is the same with Orthodox, they have a different interpretation of Holy Spirit - the Catholics from the Apostolic revelation which Orthodox kept.

>>814988
Combated long time ago, why would any person in 21st century give its opinion out when the whole orthodox church placed a verdict around year 325.

>>814962
That's because Coptics use the term "nature" to mean hypostasis, since Alexandrian theologians used it that way. Do Catholics think Christ had more than one hypostasis?

>>814986
I would add, will you be kind enough to digitize some of your English books? I can digitize and translate any book you want - at least the parts you're interested into from Romanian. We have pretty much everything translated here - 2000 years of Orthodoxy.. well yea you know..

>>814986
Try the reading list here: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x

Some of the links to sites with texts should help you

>>815008
well theologically it does make sense, at least from an outsider's point of view.

>>815022
Remind me after Lent, since I won't be posting for that duration.

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just dropping this from /tv/

>>815056
>God having a son
>making sense
Choose one

>>814988
coptics and other oriental orthodox sects rejected the council of chalcedon onwards.
they believe in christ having one nature, a synthesis of divinity and humanity, as opposed to everyone else who believes in two distinct human and divine natures in one person.

>>815056
Not really. Since Genesis 18 portrays God as a Trinity, and the Angel of the Lord is the Logos, who is YHWH

>Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
-Exodus 23:21

>And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
-Judges 13:18

>And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
-Exodus 3:2-4

See also Hebrews 1

>>815056
It's also clear that the Wisdom of God is a distinct person, but also God (the Wisdom of God is the Logos).

https://oca.org/saints/lives/2000/09/08/108957-icon-of-sophia-the-wisdom-of-god The Wisdom of Solomon talks about the Wisdom of God in this sense. (“And being but one, she can do all things: and remaining in herself, she maketh all things new: and in all ages entering into holy souls, she maketh them friends of God, and prophets.”, Wisdom of Solomon 7:27, KJV; “And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. “, Revelations 21:5; “For she is the brightness of the everlasting light, the unspotted mirror of the power of God, and the image of his goodness.”, Wisdom of Solomon 7:26; “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”, Hebrews 1:3; “For she is more beautiful than the sun, and above all the order of stars: being compared with the light, she is found before it.”, Wisdom of Solomon 7:29; “Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”, Hebrews 1:4; ) However, some theologians have tried to make Sophia, the Greek word for Wisdom, some sort of Fourth Person of the Trinity, a theology ultimately derived from Gnosticism and known as Sophiology, which is a no-no. Some others have tried to identify Mary with the Wisdom of God, which is also a no-no. Wisdom is the Word, the Second Person of the Trinity: http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/dogmas/wisdom.shtml "Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled." - Proverbs 9:5

>>815018
If that was the case, they could have easily accepted Chalcedon. Why would mere semantics drive them to reject it? It's not like there weren't knowledgeable bilingual theologians who could have easily gotten to the root of the problem.

>>815073
Coptics have the same dogma as all of the councils onward, because councils are about affirming existing dogma, not creating new dogma. The Coptics, for instance, always had iconography, so even though they never had a 7th Ecumenical Council, they still are on the same page

also see
>>815018

>>815090
They thought Chalcedon was saying Christ had two hypostases. The Eastern use "nature" to mean energies/attributes, the Roman Catholics use "nature" to mean essence. None of us had tried to exchange definitions, we just clobbered the Oriental like autists and they made a fuss like autists.

>>815090
It's not a matter of translation, by the way. Their theologians wrote in Greek. I'm saying they used the Greek word "physis" (nature) to mean hypostasis. The word was the same, it was in Greek, it was just used differently.

Constantine - what do you do for living?

I mean, I am NEET I am willing to use all my time to serve God and read books but as a result of that I would starve to death.

>>815125
I take care of horses.

>>815125
Also, if you really want to do nothing but read books and serve God, consider entering a monastery.

>>814681
A lot of what you just said is wrong.

The problem of trying to apply an overarching "Orthodox do this, Orthodox do that..." to Orthodoxy is that there isn't a central "command" or hierarchy like the Roman Catholic Church. Bishops are left free to determine the specifics of their churches from place to place, while still staying true to enough core principles to keep all of them in Communion with one another.

>>815194
>A lot of what you just said is wrong.
Such as?

>>814962
The Orthodox Church isn't in Communion with the Coptic Church, so, no, you're full of shit, they're heretics to us too, and have been since the 4th century.

>>814455
>>814485
>>814499
It doesn't really matter. Both groups are wrong, because God certainly doesn't have a son.

>>815148
Aren't monks basically the original NEETs?

>>815148

You have to do some work at a monastery though, is what I read on many of their websites. I'm sure it's reasonable but a monastery can't support itself or function without some work being done. It's not literally reading and praying all day like a NEET in mom's basement

>>815201
Orthodox do not see heaven and hell as the same.

Orthodox do not necessarily think that praying and fasting are "more important" than reading Scripture. Most Orthodox read Scripture MUCH more than most Roman Catholics I've met.

Orthodox do not allow condoms in marriage, at least not my parish.

Orthodox do not permit divorce under any circumstance, at least not in my parish.

Orthodox do believe in immaculate conception, I don't understand what you mean by this one. Unless you mean that Christ was born into Mary, who was free of original sin. In which case, no, we don't believe that, but that's simply because we reject original sin entirely.

Not all Orthodox worship standing, there are Latin Rite Orthodox churches.

And probably some more but I didn't see anything that stood out too much.

Again, it's hard to apply a strict "this is what Orthodox do" to Orthodoxy because it is, by its very nature, different from place to place. The Russian Orthodox Church has a lot different practices than the Greek Orthodox Church, but we stick close together on enough key issues to remain in Communion.

>>815210
Monks are basically people who want to live Christianity in its purest form, including no private property.

I wouldn't say they're NEET's since they both work and study very hard, they just don't get paid for it. They also are very ascetic when it comes to fasting and devotion to prayer.

Maybe you just think they're NEET's because they don't have sex?

>>815210
Depends, only monks with theology studies or with higher education do nothing in Monastery because their job will be of administration or translating, writing books - while everyone else works harder than average layman.

They''re running a secluded, gated community that has to be as much as it can independent from society.

>>815220
You do but no one yells at your or disturbs you, then you are in absolute harmony and silence of mind - you usually work with hands and have all the inner world for prayer and contemplation - and still after a day of work you will still have enough time to read, study and the whole night of non-stop prayer and trying to not be intimidated by demons voices and sounds.

>>815118
That is a matter of translation then, because despite both being in Greek, if one party is using Greek words to mean something different than what other writers in Greek are using, the meaning is not getting across.

>>815223
>but that's simply because we reject original sin entirely.
This confuses me. Without original sin, what problem is salvation solving?

>>815245
Saving you from dying and ever committing bad or experiencing evil again.

>>815253
But why do we die in the first place then?

>>814748
When did Constantinople fall again?

>>815245
Because people might be fine when they're a baby, but when they grow up everyone becomes a shithead and is a bad person. So you need to repent for these things and spend your life trying to live as virtuously as you can.

We do not deny that humans are sinful beings, only that when we are born, we are in a state of sin. Christ died for our sins, meaning that we are no longer born with the sin of Adam.

>>814988
Arianism died a painful death many centuries ago. It was an evil and wicked lie that Jesus is not the eternal God, but a created being.

Some people still believe that; like the Mormons, JW, SDA, etc.

>>815223
>Orthodox do not see heaven and hell as the same.
https://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/spirituality/the-kingdom-of-heaven/heaven-and-hell

>
Orthodox do not necessarily think that praying and fasting are "more important" than reading Scripture. Most Orthodox read Scripture MUCH more than most Roman Catholics I've met.
I mean insofar as being academically learned. But the Orthodox do see Scripture as a *consolation* given to man for his spiritual ineptitude. If we were spiritually connected to God, we would already live the Gospel, we wouldn't need it spelled out. But because we are spiritually bereft, we are given Scripture.

>Orthodox do not allow condoms in marriage, at least not my parish.
That's because your bishop doesn't permit it. Dogmatically, it is permitted, even Saint John Chrysostom said there is nothing wrong with coitus interruptus in marriage, so the same would apply to condoms..

>Orthodox do not permit divorce under any circumstance, at least not in my parish.
That's because your bishop doesn't permit it, whereas this is about dogmatic differences with the Catholic Church

>In which case, no, we don't believe that, but that's simply because we reject original sin entirely.
We reject the idea of inheritance of sin, but we don't reject the idea that we are all born into a "vat" of sin so to speak, which is how death can touch even those in the womb.

Immaculate conception means Mary was not born into that vat, because Catholics think sin is passed through conception, and that Mary was free from this.

>Not all Orthodox worship standing, there are Latin Rite Orthodox churches.
"Latin Rite" Orthodox means how the Latin Church was prior to the schism. The Latin practice of sitting down through most of worship was innovated far later than the schism.

>>815065
Telling God what He can and cannot have.
Making sense.

Pick one.

>>815081
Jesus is YHWH.

>>815232
It's not a matter of translation because they are both using the same language. The issue is terminology. Theological terminology was not something always with the Church, it evolved to clarify issues, and the terms evolved differently in some places than in others.

>>815259
Sin.

>>815292
That's also what the poster you responded to said.

Angel of God = Logos
Logos = Word of God.

Word of God = The Son

The Son = Jesus Christ our savior.

>>815290
Can God choose to cease his existence?

>>815245
I don't know if you're asking this question directly, but I want to answer it directly.

Salvation is solving the problem of being born spiritually dead. When Adam and Eve sinned, the Holy Spirit, the Breath of Life, left them, and they died. Instantly. And after that, they gave birth to children in their image, not in the image of God.

Being saved is the regaining of the Holy Spirit that was lost by Adam and Eve; it is being "born again" in the Spirit; it is having the Holy Spirit literally dwell in you.

The sin problem was dealt with at the cross.

Being spiritually dead, with your sins forgiven, is useless. You need to be saved; you need to be brought to life, and rejoined with the Creator via the Holy Spirit.

>>815304
My bad. I thought that sentence ended with a question mark.

>>815313
No.

>>815304
I would also add from our orthodox Tradition - long before Creation, no angel in sky not even Lucifer knew who Jesus was, He was that angel that always spoke with God, that always planned with God - but no one in Heaven knew His importance... that He was full God, part of God.

>>815313

God will never cease existence of beings that are able to understand they exist, nor Satan, no sinners will cease to exist - they will just continue to exist for eternity in darkness and eternal pain separate from God and the rest of Creation but even worse, separate from each other in that darkness.

>>814485
Catholic here
There is no Father AND son they are of the same person. The holy trinity, the father the son and the holy spirit are a single being.

>>815313
God has three existences which predicate his single being, so that question is kind of incoherent.

>>815337
Lucifer didn't know who made him? Who established him? Who was dressing him?

>>815339
So there is only one person of the Trinity. not three?

>>815340
He's trying to trap me into saying that I can deny God non-existence, as he attempts to deny God a son.

>>815339
They are One, but each is a Person.

Father is not the same Person with Son, but they share the same Being.

>>815346
He took Jesus to Hades which was a major mistake. If he knew Jesus was God, he wouldn't have done that.

>>815340
Aside from this existence, where God exists, what are the other two?

>>815353
They are one being, they are of the same and are not separate from each other.

>>815339
I don't know what kind of "catholic" you are, but the language "proceeding from the Father and the Son" is straight out of the creeds.

>>815362
Lucifer never took Jesus to Hades; he took Him to the top of the temple, and the top of the mountain of the Lord, the New Jerusalem.

Jesus took Himself to Hades, to set the captives in Paradise free, and hopefully to mock the evil spirits in Torment.

>>815378
Are the creeds in the bible?

>>815328
So you agree with me that there are things that cannot be logically be done by God?

>>815337
I'm talking about God, not his Creation.

>>815340
Whether God has one existence or three is irrelevant. I'm asking, can he cease His existence?

>>815371
Since when did Catholics start using person and being synonymous? I thought you guys said God is one being, but with three persons.

>>815380
Some demons, except Lucifer - Lucifer is 100% excluded from salvation. But to continue some demons can still be saved - there are stories of monks that forced demons to sing as they were singing when they were angels, and after much effort in order to receive their freedom demon accepted to do so.. and in that same moment the demon turned into an Angel and ascended to heaven - from this we can conclude that in order for demons to stay corrupted they repress all the memories of heaven, they oppose their being, they exist in permanent negation.

Satan cannot be saved because his being is 100% corrupted and destroyed, he fell first on his own - God sent him on earth but still gave him a chance to repent and come back of course not to the same glory - but soon after that, Satan tempted man and trough that he corrupted himself and fell even more, God made snake life even more miserable because of that read in Genesis.

So hate Satan, hate evil - reject him, trough him you can learn to hate all evil and love God.

The apostles will judge fallen angels at the Judgement day and maybe some of them will be saved, because not all demons are equally evil, they are all evil but some are truly evil.

>>815401
>Whether God has one existence or three is irrelevant. I'm asking, can he cease His existence?
Logically speaking? No, he necessarily exists. But this is so extremely speculative that the answer that's like a dog pontificating with barks on theoretical physics.

>>814988

Arianism was right.

>>815401
>>815360

Not at all. You say God cannot have a Son, and Jesus claimed to be the Son of God.

And the quran affirms that the bible is true; that Jesus was born of a virgin; and that Jesus ascended alive into heaven.

By God's very nature, I Am, He cannot be I Am Not.

>>815403
Catholics are wrong on everything. The Trinity is One Being manifested in three persons.

>>815413
There is no room for human logic with God.

Angels come trough windows and communicate with you, flesh regenerate, dead people rise to life, fire comes from the sky ... You still cling to human logic, it's only sealing your downfall.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=3686.0

Read this interview with Father Paisios about logic.

>>815421
Why would we care about quaran, it's fan fiction.

>>815421
Adding to this, by the Law of Non-Contradiction, God cannot be both I Am, and I Am Not, but He can have a Son, and can be a triune being.

>>815436
By the law invented by some human, law of God has to be invalid. GG.

>>814904
No.

There are major differences between the two. It's why the Catholics came up with the two lungs theory in the first place.

>>815434
He's a muslim. It's all he cares about. And the quran affirms that the bible is the Word of God, that Jesus was born of a virgin, and that Jesus ascended alive into heaven.

(To partially block the jarring cognitive dissonance, they also claim that the entire bible has been corrupted over the years so as to be completely unreliable.)

>>815443
I prefer the two legs theory myself, since it's in the bible. The two legs of Rome, both scheduled for annihilation by Jesus.

>>815453
Fuck off jackarse

>>815421
>You say God cannot have a Son
I'm not sure if it's possible or not. But I know it's false. In the same way, that certain animals could evolve one way, but they just turned out to evolve differently.

>And the quran affirms that the bible is true
Not really. Speak more precisely.

>that Jesus was born of a virgin; and that Jesus ascended alive into heaven
I affirm this. Not sure how it supports your point though.

>By God's very nature, I Am, He cannot be I Am Not.
I concur. I'll admit that my first argument wasn't that good, because God having a son doesn't seem logically impossible (still false, just not necessarily impossible as far as I know).

>>815447
Please don't use that concept cognitive dissonance - it's nothing more but a concept, a study on some paper - it has no experimental proof and it will never have, also more than 3/4 of psychology experiments fail to ever produce the same results.

Also the psychologists who came up with it was pretty lame and that was pretty much the core of a life time of wanking.

Cognitive dissonance is just an attempt to conceptualize something which we don't properly understand and nor brain mapping can properly explain.

>>815429
That's why I just said "logically speaking". There really is anything else to go off, since God didn't reveal the answer himself. We can say what is "logically speaking", although that doesn't make it anymore true or likely in this instance.

>>815453
The divine Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, as opposed to human writings; and the oral tradition or living faith of the catholic church from the apostles down, as opposed tothe varying opinions of heretical sects—together form one infallible source and rule of faith. Both are vehicles of the same substance: the saving revelation of God in Christ; with this difference in form and office, that the church tradition determines the canon, furnishes the key and true interpretation of the Scriptures, and guards them against heretical abuse. (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Eerdmans: Grand Rapids, MI, 1981 ed., vol. 3, p. 606)

>>815458
Run off to /b/, furfag.

>>815459
As an orthodox I personally don't give a flying fuck of what you have to say as a Muslim.

Especially when you come with the attitude of defending Islam and "proving" me my Christianity is corrupt - except to be ignored.

Stay on you Islamic side and we will stay on our Christian side.

>>815469
Also you are some strange type of sexual deviant also member of some fucked up cult - stop trying to write here, your opinion is not relevant at all. Out of so much kindness Constantine or other friendly people ever write back to you.

>>815459
Different Orthodox here: could God furnish an exact carbon copy of himself?

>>815459

Rather than argue with you, I would love to recommend Nabeel Qureshi's "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus".

>>815477
God is spirit, immaterial.

In a sense all which is material is in His property and he is present throughout all of it.

>>815460
There's nothing that you believe, that you believe to be false.

>>815476
>As an orthodox
Sorry, I forgot you people are still butthurt about Constantinople. Visit Hagia Sophia one of these days. It's pretty sweet :^)

>and "proving" me my Christianity is corrupt
I literally didn't say anything like that. I could've, but I didn't.

>and we will stay on our Christian side
You wouldn't make a very good missionary.

>>815469

Coming from someone who mixes the profane with the even more profane, the argument that you can mix the holy with the profane sounds even worse.

>>815488
That is correct, but it doesn't really answer my question. Could God replicate his existence?

>>815477
I'm not Christian.

A few questions on the nature of suicide; is inaction suicide?

For instance if I get an apendix problem or get bitten by a venemous snake and refuse to seek medical help would that send me to hell?

Would having yourself put in a permanent coma be theologically acceptable?

Does the Orthodox Church have the same conception of a fiery hell as talked about by the Church fathers

>>815481
Thanks for the recommendation. Salam.

>>815510
I know, but that doesn't answer my question.

>>815511
You can get taken off of life support. Euthanasia, however, is not okay.

This is the Orthodox conception of hell: https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/st-isaac-the-syrian-the-hellish-scourge-of-divine-love/

>I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love. For what is so bitter and vehement as the punishment of love? I mean that those who have become conscious that they have sinned against love suffer greater torment from this than from any fear of punishment. For the sorrow caused in the heart by sin against love is sharper than any torment that can be. It would be improper for a man to think that sinners in Gehenna are deprived of the love of God. Love is the offspring of knowledge of the truth which, as is commonly confessed, is given to all. The power of love works in two ways: it torments those who have played the fool, even as happens here when a friend suffers from a friend; but it becomes a source of joy for those who have observed its duties. Thus I say that this is the torment of Gehenna: bitter regret. But love inebriates the souls of the sons of Heaven by its delectability.

>>815523
>I know, but that doesn't answer my question.
Oh, ok. I'd answer that I don't know.

>>815476
Because all you can do is whine like a little bitch when actual sources are cited am I right?

>>815495
But that's not the argument I'm making you imbecile

>>815530
Then you can think of no reason why he couldn't

God is one essence with three distinct (though not separate) existences . According to Hebrews 1:3, the Son is not merely an εἰkών (generally translated as “image”) of God, as man is: He is a χαραkτήρ (which means perfect replication) of God’s ὑποστάσεως; so the Son, being a perfect replication of God’s existence, means HE IS (YHWH is archaic Hebrew for “HE IS”); so God the Father begets God the Son, but does not create him, because that would conflict with the Son being a perfect replica of God’s existence, as God’s existence doesn’t begin or end, and is uncreated; the Son also cannot be a distinct being from God, as God’s essence is predicated upon his existence (ὑπόστασις means the underlying support--I AM). Now of course you might ask, “Why would God do that?” Well, even putting aside the divinity of Christ, the Trinity is fundamental to the Christian conception of God as love, and this explains why: http://www.antiochian.org/node/17594 This is all beyond really putting into words except in the vaguest of senses, but it makes more sense when factor out spatial and temporal conceptions, though it nonetheless remains a divine mystery.

>>815494
Tl;dr, you're Muslim cuck nothing you say is of interest.
You can have all the rocks and stones you want conquered by sword and demonic behavior - I will say it's enough If I become a homeless citizen of Paradise.
Or just to have a small place to sit for eternity close to entrance.

I don't do missionary work, I'm specializing on something else. Sure I will defend Jesus, Gospels and Church but no missionary work for me - maybe that's Constantine pleasure in life.

>>815505
Ask God. I never considered It - He technically done that with Jesus and Holy Spirit replicated Himself but also allowed them to be unique.

But God decided to limit that process to Three.

>>815511
Suicide = sin against Holy Spirit, giver of life.

Mark 3
28Amen, all human sins will be forgiven, and all the blasphemies
ever uttered; 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has
forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.”30[He spoke these words]
because they had said, “He has an unclean spirit!”

So suicide = eternal damnation hell, this is why Church won't do anything about people that committed suicide because the verdict is clear - eternal damnation by the will of God.

>>815533
Being salty is a turn off, anon

>>815533
Sorry I haven't read what you wrote, long time ago I convinced myself of what type of shitty person you are and from that point I just insult you on sight.

>>815550
Whether He could or not is irrelevant to if He did.

And I misunderstood. If that's what you're saying, then yeah. It is impossible for God to make himself a mortal.

>>815523
>You can get taken off of life support. Euthanasia, however, is not okay.

This answer is a tad vauge, can you give me a yes or a no about the examples I used above?

>This is the Orthodox conception of hell:

That seems like a very lax form of hell and one that would be just like heavan to even Muslim suicide bombers. The idea that being loved is an ultimate and bitter punishment seems to be something that wouldnt apply to all that many people.

Is that why its so easy for Orthodox to sin compared to Catholics?

>>815555
Good, good, let the butthurt flow through you. Remain ignorant and foolish.

>>815554
Yes, but you didn't address the point I'm making unless of course you already agree with it.

>>815572
The three existences of the single being of God always existed.

Christ's human incarnation doesn't make the being of God mortal, rather the single existence known as Christ is two beings, two essences, God and man, but with a single existence. The being known as God did not become a human being, but rather shared a single existence with a human being.

>>815595
>Yes, but you didn't address the point I'm making unless of course you already agree with it.
I'm not him,

>>815511
Suicide is a sin, and all sins were forgiven at the cross. So whether you kill yourself quickly or slowly doesn't really matter.

Whether you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Who died for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day, that matters.

If you can say that out loud, that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

And you will be armed, and armored, against these attacks you don't know are from your enemy.

>>815514
And peace be with you, and with your family.

>>815533
Protip: Calling tradition "holy" does not make it holy.

>>815208
Shlomo Shekelstein pls go

>>815620
Muslim, not Jewish.

>>815608
Heretic detected.

You think you are smarter than God, smarter than church and smarter than Scriptures?

It states clearly that Sin against Holy Spirit is an eternal sin ! - Church says that suicidal people have no chance of salvation.

Following your post logic Hitler is in heaven now because all sins were forgiven at the cross.

People that committed suicide are in hell, Judas Iscariot is in hell.

>>815552
>So suicide = eternal damnation hell, this is why Church won't do anything about people that committed suicide because the verdict is clear - eternal damnation by the will of God.

This is obviously false. The unforgiven sin, the unforgivable sin, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.

>>815623
So Allahu Snackbar somewhere else.

>>815599
How can someone be both God and man? God is the Sustainer. Man is sustained.

>>815625
>>815630

>>815616
You did not address the argument.

It is holy because it is the tool needed to grasp the meaning of Scripture and it proclaims the message of the Church.

This is even noted by Reformed scholar Schaff and he is talking about the view of the relationship between Scripture and Tradition in the earliest stages of Christianity.

>>815630
It's false if you're a cultist, but if you are orthodox you should read the position of the church and interpretation of the church for the verse.

Holy Spirit is the giver of life, if you refuse life - God has nothing else to give you.

People that suicide just refuse life.

>>815632
By being both the Son of Man, and the Son of God, at once, flawlessly, seamlessly, inextricably.

>>815632
The God being is not sustained, but the human being is, and they share a single existence in Christ.

>>815637
Men do not make things holy. Only God makes things holy.

>>815640

I applaud lies to save lives.

They are nonetheless lies.

>>815647
Tradition is from God since it is from that the NT arise from.

>>815644
That's just restating the doctrine. I'm saying how does He do it?

>>815646
So it's two beings in one...? And then who is Christ? Is he the physical vessel for both beings, or is he the human?

>>815552
>>815608

Yeah but do those actions actually count as suicide or is it just letting nature play out? Im not asking if suicide is justifyable

>>815672
Ask God how God does God stuff.
Die go to heaven and ask God.

Or live a life full of virtues, cleanse your heart and if you're worth - you should not ask for it.. but instead be 100% worthy for it, you will ask God of that while still being alive, but good luck with becoming a saint.

>>815680
Church states that if it was done out of mental problems, disease or accident or if someone attempted survived and then desired to live but died later of because of complications - they're all excluded and church will pray for them and ask God for mercy.

But people that do it 100% aware, because they hate life they are forever damned.

>>815672
>So it's two beings in one
Two beings in one existence, not two beings in one being.

>And then who is Christ?
Christ is the single existence called the Logos, the existence of the God being and a human being.

>>815695
Stop fucking trying to understand, It's not possible for humans to understand - maybe not even for Angels - how Trinity works.

You just need to know that each Person is full GOD and you should serve each PERSON as full GOD, and together They are GOD.

Go therefore and make disciples of all
nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of
the Holy Spirit, ( Matthew 28: 19)

>>815684
>Ask God how God does God stuff.
>Die go to heaven and ask God.
This is not reasonable, since both of our religions are exclusive and necessitate following them to go to Heaven. The religion that God revealed must make sense to people, so they can know it's true, and follow it.

>>815695
>Two beings in one existence, not two beings in one being.
Can you define an existence?

>>815707
>You just need to know that each Person is full GOD and you should serve each PERSON as full GOD, and together They are GOD.
What the hell? I'm not Christian, but this sounds heretical.

>>815720
lel

>>815668
The traditions of men are not holy.

>>814455
Catholic - the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son
Orthodox - the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father ALONE

well, it was that way until they realized the Orthodox fucked up and changed their doctrine to THROUGH the Son, which means the same as us

>>815672
Perfectly. He was Man, so He qualified to be our Kinsman Redeemer, and He was God, so He could afford to be our Kinsman Redeemer. We know He performed His work perfectly because He rose from the dead; had Jesus been imperfect at any point, He would have remained dead, and with Him, any hope we have for redemption.

>>815680
Yes. Whether you kill yourself slowly, or kill yourself quickly, the time element is immaterial. Murder, including self-murder, begins in the heart, and is a sin before anyone dies.

>>815707
There is one being known as GOD

There are three existences of that being, known as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

>>815717
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostasis_(philosophy_and_religion)

>>815712
Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith; if my salvation depended on me .00000001%, I would be doomed.

Because God is so far above me, I trust Him when it comes to these things. And I trust Him to make good decisions.

>>815690
>>815737

So having a high salt diet or smoking counts as suicide in the Churches eyes ?

>>815729
Tradition of men is not equivalent with tradition of God which Jesus told Apostles to spread and which Jesus Himself spread - try to remember if you even bothered to read the Bible, Jesus never wrote anything down - He just passed down it orally, and gave people Oral Tradition.

Matthew 28:
19Go therefore and make disciples of all
nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of
the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all the things that I have
commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
<Amen! >

Mark 16:

15He said to
them, “Go into the whole world, and preach the Good News to the whole
creation.

Luke 9:
2He then sent them forth to
preach the Kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

John 21:
25There are also many other things
which Jesus did. If they were all written, I suppose that even the world
itself could not contain the books that would be written.

2 John 1:
12Even though I have many things to write to you, I do not want to do so
with paper and ink. Instead, I hope to come to you and speak face to face, so
that our joy may be complete.

>>815739
Each existence is complete God, they're never separated tho.

>>815737
Does that mean every person who rejects medical treatment to prolong their life someone who has/is murdering themselves

>>815747
Church already gives you out an diet plan to assure you stay healthy, and smoking - of course church is against smoking or damaging your body in any other obvious way.

>>815754
No, there are not three beings of God, only one. Any existence is not a complete being known as God, or else there would be three Gods.

>>815758
So yes?

>>815732
>We know He performed His work perfectly because He rose from the dead
What is the proof of this?

>>815739
Ah ok, now I understand. Basically, you're saying Christ is the reality that everything else is contingent upon. But how can this be, if Christ required sustenance during his life on Earth?

>>815743
This does not conflict with what I said. These religions are exclusive, and the fate of our souls are at risk. Therefore, the religion God revealed must make sense. Otherwise, people would be justified in not following it, and they'd go to Hell, which conflicts with God being All-Just.

>>815739
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostasis_(philosophy_and_religion)
Let me elaborate on this to clarify for you

Essence, or being, means what is fundamentally "you". You can change a lot of things and still be "you", but if the essence is what, if were changed, would make "you" no longer "you".

Existence means a reality. Now hypothetically, you could keep a reality going, without the continuation of a being, it would be a different being, but the same reality.

>>815762
You vs Jesus and Church.

I serve the Trinity which is One God, Jesus is just as much God as Father is God, they're Gods not simple entities.

Each of them is a unique Person but they all share the same Being.

Like a fire with the same body but with three tongues of fire, each tongue stretching to the entire universe.

Or from one council event - Saint Spyirdon done the following to explain Trinity.

At this Council, St Spyridon displayed the unity of the Holy Trinity in a remarkable way. He took a brick in his hand and squeezed it. At that instant fire shot up from it, water dripped on the ground, and only dust remained in the hands of the wonder worker. “There was only one brick,” St Spyridon said, “but it was composed of three elements. In the Holy Trinity there are three Persons, but only one God.”

It would only be heretical if you claimed that one can be separated from the Trinity and be full God, no outside of Trinity there is no complete Godhood.

>>815747

I don't care what any church thinks about it, and I don't speak for any church.

>>815751

Do you have a listening device whereby you can hear Jesus and the apostles? And if so, why have I not heard of it before now?

>>815791
Jesus is the Head of Church - He promised, He delivered and delivers - He keeps the scriptures legitimate and intact, He gives the Holy Spirits to the priests, He is present in church, He is the teacher... Of course I trust Jesus. It's your problem if you don't believe.

Also Holy Spirit still speaks trough Saints as if they were organs - read Evergetinos - the second most important book after Scriptures - full of Holy Spirit.

>>815791
We have the history that shows how consistent our beliefs are with the Church Fathers across the ages.

You don't.

>>815771
>But how can this be, if Christ required sustenance during his life on Earth?
Christ's existence was sustained by the God being.

>>815778
No, they are distinct existences, not exist beings.

>>815784
what about your church/fellowship?

>>815804
"we" what are you talking about?
Don't talk in my church name, you don't have history as a cultist you're relatively new in history and have nothing to say in the name of Church.

>>815804
What would the Church Fathers make of allowing Tzars to appoint bishops and determine the content of sermons?

>>815809
>Christ's existence was sustained by the God being.
Then, how are we contingent on Christ?

>>815809
So the Holy Spirit spoke in front of a council trough a saint saying these words: "In the Holy Trinity there are three Persons, but only one God."
But you are smarter than God, gg.

>>815756
Murder is in the heart; God reads the heart.

>>815771
What God revealed does make sense. He created us with the Holy Spirit in us, we sinned, the Holy Spirit left us, and we died.

In order to be alive again, we must regain the Holy Spirit that Adam and Eve lost, to live inside us again, and resurrect us to eternal life.

That is the work of the Holy Spirit, and when a person confesses out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believes in their heart God raised Him from the dead, they will be saved.

The proof of the resurrection is in the bible. If you reject the bible, you reject the only hope men have.

>>815803
Jesus is the head of the church.

The pope is the head of the catholic church.

Some group of men are the head of the orthodox church.

The three are obviously distinct.

>>815804
Yes, the history of purgatory, and limbo, and penance, and indulgences, and the ascension of Mary,, the deification of Mary, the worship of idols, and the cannibalism, and the vampirism, etc., etc., etc.

You can keep it.

I'll keep Jesus.

>>815810

It's very small, and unorganized, like a good home church should be.

>>815827
So if its just not wanting to be bothered with going through continual treatment that all good then?

>>815844

Well the bishops that are the head of the orthodox church have the job of providing arguments to heretics, making priests and keeping the church in harmony - they are the succesors of Apostles and basically have the same job Apostles had, but they're not the leaders of church, they cannot add or remove a single word from the Scriptures, Canon or Dogma by their will.

And we all kneel to the same Head, which is Jesus. Trough nature, events, humans and most importantly trough Holy Spirit Jesus keeps the church on optimal level so that souls can still receive the services and the help they seek.

The only Apostolic church in which The Holy spirit moves and where the TRUTH holds is the Orthodox Church - the eastern orthodox church - there is no Holy Spirit and there is no salvation outside of it.

>>815836
This discussion isn't helpful for either of us. I pray that God guides us both.

>>815853
>It's very small, and unorganized, like a good home church should be.

That seems rather at odds with the entire history of Christianity. Were they all doing it wrong for 1800+ years?

Also when an orthodox prays for non-Orthodox cultists or people of other religion He has the obligation to ask God to not consider His gesture and prayer a sin. Trough an orthodox Christian prayer like that, pure and out of clean heart God can find Divine reasons to save that soul at the second Judgement, but there are also conditions - if that person was aware of the Gospels, of the orthodox church and rejected them then he is guilty of eternal sin.

>>815819
What did the Church Fathers think about Sola Scriptura.

Oh wait, they oppose it.

>>815850
So basically all those things are Christian since the Church Fathers are from the Apostles.

>>815388
I thought you said you were Catholic lol

>>815866

It's irrelevant. It's a sin, and all sins were forgiven at the cross.

I believe I posted this to you earlier today.

If an unsaved person kills himself, he is lost forever.

The chances that a saved person, filled with the Holy Spirit of God unto life eternal, wants to murder himself is slim to none, and slim left town.

It's not sin that keeps us apart from God; it's unbelief.

>>815871
They should get real jobs, like the rest of us.

>>815872

I know that the Word of God does not return void. Be well.

>>815951
How would Holy Spirit the giver of life approach someone with even fragments of suicidal thoughts or depression?

Both are impurities caused by demons.

>>815956
Sucking cocks is not a real job anon, stop bragging about it.

>>815875
It's exactly what people have been doing for 2000 years. The idea of professional clergy is anathema. Jesus said where two or three are gathered in His name, He will be there.

I don't know what more a person would want than that.

>>815912
They're all catholic, and therefore pagan, and accursed, yes.

Don't you have a fox you have to go fap to?

>>815942
Yeah, not for one second. I pity anyone caught in their trap. Cradle to grave authoritarian control.

>>815962
The very same way He approaches any other sinner. Confession of sin, confession that Jesus is Lord, belief in the heart God raised Him from the dead, and the Holy Spirit moves in and goes to work.

The Holy Spirit knows His business, and He is not going to allow demons to room with Him.

>>815964
They should stop doing that too.

>>814748
Catholicism: Christianity for sheep
Protestantism: Christianity for shepherds
Orthodoxy: Christianity for goats

>>815991
Posted by a jealous lama.

>>815991
Also holy fuck you protestcucks are so filled with pride that it's not even worth knowing you exist.

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Why is anyone actually bothering to argue with this guy? He posts in every one of these threads and it's obvious he doesn't really care what you say regardless of how much scripture you use or if you cite early Christian writings. Stop throwing pearls before swine, shake the dust off your feet, and move on.

>>814707

F
/ \
S HG

>>816020
Love living rent free in your head. Love it, love it, love it.

Would fasting and prayer be relevant to someone who has not converted yet? How does one do it "correctly"?

>>814722
It's like you've never read even a summary text on Orthodox theology. Do you even mysteries?

>>816101
pls respond

can someone please explain to me the book of job?

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>>817124
Bad things happen to good people.

>>816101
>>816541

Who would you be praying to if you do not believe?

>>815339
>The holy trinity, the father the son and the holy spirit are a single being

That sounds like some pretty serious heresy you're professing there, friend

>>817323
I do, I just haven't converted yet

>>816030
> newfag can't trinity

>>815966
>It's exactly what people have been doing for 2000 years. The idea of professional clergy is anathema. Jesus said where two or three are gathered in His name, He will be there.

So if the orthodox anons could demonstrate that their practices were those that have been happening for the past 2000 years and that yours are an inovation from the 19th Century would you recant your views and convert?

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>>817762

>>814962
Coptic here.

You're full of shit. You can't divide us Orthodox.

how should an orthodox dress?

>>813970
no u

>>814748
>who literally believe the roman empire lasted until 1453
nothing wrong with having knowledge of an obvious fact

>>817969
You're the first schismatics you maniac.

>>817531
Then you would be praying like any other believer

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>"Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Christ the Wise? It's a Sith legend. Darth Christ was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying. He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power...which, eventually of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death...but not himself"