Constantine the Great

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Think he was the first Roman one.

>>784593
>named his city Constantinople, his daughter Constantia, and his sons Constantine II, Constans, and Constantius

He was full of himself

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Everyone before and after Basil II was a mistake.

>>784603
He was the George Foreman of emperors.

>>784600
Justinian was an idiot

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H E R A C L E U S

>>784636
>Greeks take charge of the Empire
>immediately lose 75% of the land to Arabs

>>784659
>what is war exhaustion

>>784800
They had larger armies than the Arabs almost every time

>>784659
>>784868
>let's savagely persecute the heretic Christians in the territories we just reconquered
>there's no way that this can backfire on us

>>784901
The Copts didn't go against the Byzantines despite persecutions so no it really didn't

>>784905
I'm talking about the huge amount of Oriental Orthodox followers in the Levant you dingus.

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>>784989
>Monothelites
>Oriental Orthodox

>The Levant
>Troubling Byzantium

>>784593
Impossible, as he was never a Christian, and there has never been a "christian emperor".

>>785000
Are you retarded ?

>>784998
>Muslim sieges of Levantine cities weren't made easier by factions of persecuted heretics
Wow, you shore do know a lot, don't you?

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>Constantine the great
>not so great

>>785003
No, but thank you for your concern.

>>785003
He isn't retarded, he is just one of those Christians that think "pagan" rationality is a bad thing and that the Vatican still holds any power over the world..

>>785089
If Christianity is true, then pagan rationality is evil, yes?

>>785097
>It was invented by a pagan
>Must be bad

>>785089
Do they not have 80 embassies? Do people not listen to the "pope"? Does the "pope" not brag about having 1,300,000,000 followers?

>>785100
If a thing is invented by a pagan, then it is not a thing of God.

>>784593
>The fact that Constantine single handedly attributed to the fall of the Roman Empire apparently makes one a great emperor.

>Justinian actually made his empire thrive, not fuck it over.

>>785106
The pope has as much power as the US, dude : none

>>785110
Though how much power do the Vatican hold over them?
They couldn't even stop world war 1, despite France Austria and Italy being Catholic with Germany and the UK having large catholic minorities.

>>785110
Why must it be evil?
The Republic was a Pagan idea to begin with, would you say the Republic of USA is ungodly because of that?

>>785110
May you also tell me if there is anything such as Christian Rationalism?

>>784636
Destroyer of Rome

>>785131
kek

We're the lone superpower in the world, dude. Check yourself.

>>785135
Because things that are not of God are by definition evil, including all of mankind, and all of the works men do in the flesh.

>>785208
Christian Rationalism is a science and philosophy. NOT a religion

Thousands of years ago great men driven by ideals of reform tried with their teachings to enlighten humanity. Such men like Jesus, Budda, Confucius and Mohammed taught similar spiritual principles, however besides not being understood, ended up deified by the illiterate masses.

Not for me.

>>785299
>Christian Rationalism is a science and philosophy

Yes, one with the conclusion set in advance, which would make it a very bad science and philosophy

>>785292
Hello Francis! How is that Trump thing going?

>>785308
Yeah, it looks bad all the way around.

>>785327
I am no fan of Petros Romanus.

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>>785344

>>784593
Mass-murdering power-hungry maniac. He tortured to death his eldest son and boiled alive his second wife. Even crazier and more paranoid than your average roman emperor, which is quite impresive.

You shouldn't look at the fact that he was a Christian and wonder why he was such a bloodthirsty conqueror. Instead, you should look at the conqueror first, and realize that being a badass autocrat was what allowed him to practice whatever religion he wanted.

>>785372
>boiled alive his second wife
Honestly she totally 100% deserved it, fucking cunt, but I'm not saying Constantine was aight.

>>785709
Not that guy, but I somehow have my doubts. What could she have possibly done to deserve being boiled alive?

Ignoring his state achievements, he was a beat when it came to battle, never lost too I believe

>>785734
She set up his firstborn son, who was loyal to Constantine and was a very good general, promising, no negative indications whatsoever from what we know. Falsely accused him of attempted rape. Got him executed.

So of course when Constantine found out that she had tricked him into murdering his beloved son, he did the right thing. Except she could have taken a longer time dying, that would've been nice.

Calumniators deserve to roast slowly.

>>785495
Constantine, like his father, was a sun worshiper, and donated heavily to the temple of Apollo. His "dream vision" was a chi and a ro flanking the sun, exactly what one would expect of a pagan sun god worshiper.

Note that Jesus specifically said that His kingdom was not spread by the sword, and yet here's this sun god worshiper, saying that it is.

The tales of Constantine's deathbed confession are nothing more than an admission that he was never truly a Christian. He just realized the old maxim, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

And in joining them, he perverted them forever. The line of popes devolved into god men calling themselves Pontifex Maximus, just like their emperors of old.

>>785745
beast*

>>785752
>He can't have been a good Christian because he started as a Pagan
You know, you just denounced every Christian ever apart from Jesus and some Jewish converts.

>>785746
No, that's horrible, but it still doesn't justify boiling her alive.

>>785783
Anybody who falsely accuses somebody else of anything, let alone a crime as horrific as rape, deserves any punishment coming to them and more.

>>785783
She placed the whole empire at risk by getting the Emperor's own son and possible heir killed, didn't she?

>>785799
Well, I'm glad you have no power. Vengeance is an utterly pointless pursuit.

>my historical analysis depends upon my theological convictions

some of you are a fucking disgrace. /rel/ when so you argue about paganism somewhere else? religion isn't even a humanity.

>>785783
>I insert modern morals into historical analysis
Let me guess, you think Alexander the Great is evil because he put to death thousands of people?

>>785809
>is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc.

>>785813
No, I think he was an evil bastard because he was a petty warlord who killed a close friend over an argument.

But my morals are utterly irrelevant to historical analysis, regardless I none the less reserve the right to evaluate historical figures by them.

>>785808
She played a big game and got a grand punishment for it. She was toying with the lives of thousands, maybe millions, of people by getting that heir apparent killed.
What's so wrong with making her suffer so much for it?

>>785821
>who killed a close friend over an argument
Not only was he drunk when he did this, but his friends had to stop him from killing himself when he realized what he had done.

>>785825
Yeah, ok, that was an unfair jab. I don't think he was an evil bastard, in all actuality (just a bit of a bastard). I none the less think Constantine's actions with his wife weren't exactly justified, and believe that if I were to regard his action as justified then, would have no reason to not regard someone doing the same now as justified.

>>785824
>What's so wrong with making her suffer so much for it?

It's pointless, and justifies further cruelties.

>>785783
>falsely getting someone sentenced to capital punishment
>not punishable by capital punishment

shiggydiggy

>>785840
I didn't say that. I just said boiling her alive was horrific and unjustified.

>>785752
>the Popes are shit
>therefore Constantine is bad

>>785764
I said he never converted to Christianity, unless you believe the fable that he did so on his deathbed.

If he did so on his deathbed, then he never did before then, and was operating as his pagan sun god worshiping self.

What was so hard to understand about that?

>>785809
"Humanity has never been religious", he says, and then *tips fedora*

>>785854
Works for me.

>>785893
doesn't follow at all

He never claimed to be Vicar of Christ.

>>785904
Pontifex Maximus.

Both the emperors and popes share that title.

There is no Vicar of Christ, only antichrists. Christ is still Christ.

>>785887
You don't think it may have been some bigger game behind it? That he maybe didn't want to make it to clear for his Pagan subjects that he had converted to the Christian faith? That he didn't want to stick it up the eyes of his subjects? I have read earlier that the early Christians often waited as long as possible to get baptized, so there is always that.
And before getting sick he did plan to get babtized in the Jordan River, wanting to do it at the same place as Jesus did, so saying that he lived a pagan life and just waited till right before his death is wrong.

>>785919
>They share a titel
And that proves?
What if they just thought that the titel was to be given to the leader of religious Rome, the Romans giving him it out of tradition?,
Just because a lot of churches were built on old pagan sites it doesn't mean that they had any links to the pagans apart form location ones.

>>785924
Meant for
>>785919

>>785933
That there's no difference between a Roman emperor thinking he's God, and a pope thinking he's God.

That the empire never went away.

That Rome was never not pagan.

>>785924
If that were true, there would be no need for the "deathbed conversion" story that was spread around later; everyone would just continue assuming that God told him to kill people in His name.

Rome didn't miss a beat. They kept the same holidays, the same festivals, and the same idols; they just changed all the names.

>>785940
What does Pontifex maximus have to do with thinking you were God? It started out as a normal high priests and then went on to the Ceasars before they declared themselves to be gods.. Why can't it just have been a way to prove the Pagans it was over, that the church had usurped even their most important title?

>>785945
>They kept the same holidays, the same festivals,
Literally nothing wrong with that as long as they changed it to fit Christianity.

>and the same idols;
Got to admit I can't argue against that.

>>785833
Not pointless, it at least discourages future instances of similar psychopathic actions.

There are people, believe it or not, psychopathic enough that they'd risk death in order to gain much power. But if they risk death and extreme pain, they might not be so ballsy.

If there's even a slight chance that it'll save lives, I don't oppose at all the brutal torture and execution of such a worthless waste of air, water, and space.

>>784593
best christian emperor (of the Roman Empire) is a low bar

>>785997
>muh brutal measures

There's never been any indication that pointless brutality serves as an effective deterrent, and in fact draconian punishments are a sign of a weak society.

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>>786010
Depends on the scale I would say.

>>785950
There was a time the ceasars said they were divine, and following them, there are these "popes" who also claim to be divine, or at the very least, stand in for the divine, as though the divine needed such a thing.

The pagans didn't miss a step. They didn't miss a beat. They erased Isis and Horus from their idols, and painted on Mary and Jesus, and continued celebrating Ishtar and Saturnalia.

The Christian Church did not take over Rome.

Roman paganism took over the christian church, such as it was at the time, and calls itself the Roman Catholic Church, the only true church on earth.

>>786010
>pointless
We've been over this just now, amigo.

>>786016
>The pagans didn't miss a step. They didn't miss a beat.
yeah besides the decades of persecutions that followed and the destruction of most pagan temples

I can tell you he was a great emporer and he is acutualy one of the main causes christianity got so popular. Well he transfered to christianity after he wore the cross and had his men wear crosses in a batlle and they one but who knows if there was better emporers the only thing he ever realy did was that. Now justinian was a cruel leader who lied and stole from his civilization. (He also made a peice gathering that his wife stopped him from running away from but insteas slaughtering the hundreds of people in the gathering) but he did upgrade and start some trends in roman architechture. He also built a giant wall that kept the muns out for the longest time so... idk what the best would be

>>786046
I may be wrong, but I have kinda gotten the idea that many Protestants think Respecting old traditions = Embracing full scale paganism
Sometimes I get the feeling protestants would be just happy if old pagan connected European traditions just died off.
Kinda makes me wanna go from Christian to neopagan.

>>786146
That's not quite as true nowadays. It seems to me that in the U.S. at least most people are entirely ignorant of doctrinal disputes between all the various churches and don't give a fuck. Even evangelicals, who hold onto the idea that the Catholic church is paganism in disguise, will still ally themselves with conservative Catholics in politics

>>786146
Indeed. Worshiping as the pagans worship is antithetical to Christianity, and commonplace to Catholicism.

So long as we keep the two separate, and I do not have to constantly apologize for some atrocity the Catholics committed, I am content.

>>786190
Do you not observe Easter and Christmas?

>>786235
I do not. I celebrate Resurrection Day in Nisan, and Jesus' birthday at Sukkot.

>>786257
kek, as long as you're consistent

>>786189
There's reasons for that. There were some very seriously flawed agreements signed between some Christian churches and the Vatican to basically not poach each other's sheep, and to stop preaching the differences. I want to say it was done in 1970? 1972? Somewhere around then.

>>786263
I believe every man should be convinced of his faith in his own heart, and act accordingly.

>>786190
do you realize that pagans had baptism and a Lord's supper?

>>786268

I believe you love to suck huge dicks

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>>786190
What about midsummer?
It is an old pagan fertility ritual that lost all its religious meaning, can it be kept?

>>786302
Easter. You think eggs and (fucking like) bunnies have anything to do with Christ, as opposed to fertility?

>>786283

I believe you are projecting.

>>786302
I believe each man should be convinced in his heart of the rightness of his actions, and to do everything for the Lord. That would include any festival that man wants to participate in.

>>786321

Yes, a film with gayporn, starring you

>>786326
Really?
Many Protestants seem to be rather focused on a specific geography of a place, like Egypt and Rome beind bad just because they once had or will have a bad role in the bible.
Why wouldn't the same thing go for traditions with pagan rots?