>1914: The Russian Empire despite it's vast natural resources,

>>771274
>Soviet Scientists and Engineers
Don't you mean Soviet spies?

Isn't illiterate serfdom exactly what future had in store for eastern europe under USSR?

>>771288
Even assuming spies played a role in the matter of the soviet atomic program their is only so much information they could obtain and relay back to moscow. They would not be providing exploded diagrams for every single component for every single machine at every stage in the complicated process of atomic weapons construction.

>>771274
The History of Russia is mostly terrible human suffering and western Europeans being invited by rulers to fix it.

File: soviet education.jpg (98KB, 600x862px) Image search: [Google]

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>>771297
Given that literacy in the Russian Empire was about 20% for men and 10% for women and rose to more than 90% for both genders by WWII obviously not.

>>771300
Assuming? It's a fact. Soviets stole American bomb designs.

>>771316
Americans stole German scientists.

That's how scientific invention works. Cultures shift all the time, conquests happen. This goes with every fucking invention in history.

>>771311
Well literate serfdom then. Did the literacy rate rise in the countries USSR conquered then, or what was your point?

File: k25.jpg (28KB, 330x222px) Image search: [Google]

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>>771316
The USSR found out in general terms what the US was doing and did not pursue dead ends that the us had tried and failed. That does not mean that a considerable amount of technical expertise was required to achieve a finished end, especially on the all important uranium enrichment process.

>>771297
Aye. Communism is the worst ideology conceived, but the Soviet Union did raise literacy by leaps and bounds.

Of course, people actually DID get dumber, because all "education" was 20% actually useful stuff and 80% Soviet propaganda.

>>771274
>1949: Soviet Scientists and Engineers construct the first soviet Atomic Bomb a mere four years after the US did so. Creating the infrastructure to make an atomic bomb was no easy feat especially back in the day.

Yes, because the Jewish Rosenberg spy couple smuggled state secrets to the USSR. How impressive of the USSR.

>>771274
>steal the technology
>no easy feat
i guess

>>771343
>because all "education" was 20% actually useful stuff and 80% Soviet propaganda.
Old shit taste of old U.S.A. propaganda. Did not know that shit still in use.

>>771330
>>771342
>But does such espionage really matter in this context?
It kind of matters when you are trying to play the speed at which the USSR developed their atomic bombs as reason why the USSR was great.

>>771381
>USSR collapsed
>USA didn't
Soviet education must not have been that useful :)

>>771274

I'm no lover of gommunism but people do forget that the USSR was formed from a shit tier society that was close to being feudal in nature. It was an improvement.

Also putting the first man in space was an impressive feat.

>>771369
Copy-Paste is good principle of a civilization. Even numbers which you use Copy-Pasted from India.

>>771343
>all "education" was 20% actually useful stuff and 80% Soviet propaganda.
Citation needed.

>>771381
You caught me. The reality was closer to 10% useful and 90% propaganda. As someone who was born in the Soviet Union and has studied its school system thoroughly, I know most people can't even fathom just how *WRONG* the commie education was about things. They managed to be objectively wrong even about simple things like grammar or rebellions in the antiquity, all for ideology.

>>771398
I think you are lying on the internet.

>>771398
>implying Albanian grandpas post on Soviet tractor-manufacuring boards

>>771387
>USSR collapsed
>USA didn't
1. U.S.A did not depended so much from oil price.
2. U.S.A. did not had ultra-democrat like Gorbachev. If in U.S.A. into Coca-Cola company workers will do election of president of firm, as in U.S.S.R. into Gorbachev time, even Coca-Cola will be crushed.
3. U.S.S.R. rouble was not intergovernmental, planetary currency like U.S.A. dollar.
>USSR collapsed
>USA didn't
if U.S.A. pay one day national debt, U.S.A. will collapsed.

>>771398

Solid source there, comrade.

>>771415
I see the nostalgia-goggled Putinoid Defence Force is out tonight.

>>771408
W-Why would someone do that though? Lying on the internet?

>>771415

The US debt is denominated in their own currency. They can't fail to pay it back. They could inflate it all away in no time at all if they wanted to, although they won't.

>>771398
>The reality was closer to 10% useful and 90% propaganda
That is only in you wet fantasy..

>>771334
even in the central asian stans the literacy is ~99%, say whatever you want about commies but they fixed the literacy at least

>>771424
Most absurd!

>>771274
It's all about who got to kidnap most Nazi scientists.

File: sergei Korolev.jpg (60KB, 305x500px) Image search: [Google]

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>>771488
Nice myth. Next thing you know you'll be saying that the Nazis built an atomic bomb.

The reality was that the Soviets had been pushing rocket technology even before WWII. Katyushas, RS-82s and similar. The mastermind behind Sputnik and Vostok was comrade Korolev.

>>771398
>>771381
>>771394

Not that guy and it's not 20 or 10 percent but it is still largely true. You can't even understand HOW much indoctrination was poured onto people at schools and universities. It was better with science, mostly because you can't exactly shove dialectic materialism into Ohm's law (though believe me, they fucking tried - even physics books, for example, had to have completely asinine forewords tying whatever subject they covered to Party's directives), but even then:

>Have a decent genetics school
>COMRADE LYSENKO SAYS GENETICS IS REACTIONARY AND WRONG
>Don't have a genetics school

>Have a nice start with cybernetics
>COMRADES, CYBERNETICS IS BOURGEOIS PSEUDOSCIENCE
>Have to resort to copying Western computers with five years delay after your own stuff gets trashed

As far as humanities goes, well, it was laughable according to any standards. Anything from history to literature had one "true" canon, essentially dialectical materialism mixed with Russian chauvinism, and expressing your own point of view was punished.

Then there's a problem of good ole Soviet inability for motivation and improvement. Since school staff was reprimanded for low marks given to students, it was in their own interest to give everyone a passable grade in one way or another.

>>771477
They certainly didn't do it because of the love for the people. Written propaganda is easier to make and mass produce.

>>771531
>Since school staff was reprimanded for low marks given to students, it was in their own interest to give everyone a passable grade in one way or another.

Sounds very similar to the education woes parts of the US is going through right now. Public schools are pushed like mad by the state to improve test scores, despite test scores contributing nearly zero to practical learning and everyday use. My state in particular is especially bad about that, standardized testing being almost the only means to judge a school's worth, and thus how much state funding they receive. Teachers spend more time educating kids how to pass tests than learn subjects.

Meanwhile, all the advanced classes are being rolled into college level courses with deals with private universities to get around all this. It's sad when the school system is so far gone that the only solution is to force college on students at an earlier age, either dumbing down the college content (Yet still lining private universities' pockets who are happy to oblige) or skipping over the basic skills learned in secondary schools.

>>771496
>comrade

Stop slandering Korolyov, he had no love for the commies.

>>771531
Well communism is predicated on keeping the masses all working together towards one shared goal. I can't hold that against them. Communism could have been great.

I don't disagree with the anon for claiming that such brainwashing significantly impacted education standards though, especially since, as you said, the important stuff was untouched.

>>771594
>Communism could have been great
Yeah, if you have a society full of robots. The inherent problem of communism is the fact that trying to make everyone to do something the state wants them to is the fact that there will always be ones outright rejecting that idea for various reasons.

You can try shooting them but then you'll just fuck up your demographics, and upkeep for the repressive apparatus will be too high. You can also try and do it with indoctrinating everyone but, as we can see, that also doesn't work well because you can't make someone feel motivated.

This lack of motivation was perhaps the biggest problem with Soviet society. People didn't have any motivation to produce decent quality goods because payment was more or less fixed. A popular phrase went like that: "You assemble a bicycle well - here's your 120. You assemble a bicycle poorly - here's your 120. You don't assemble a bicycle at all - here's your 120". People didn't have any motivation to make any improvements because the bonuses for that were laughable and most of the time bureaucrats themselves didn't even care about improving anything. People didn't even have the motivation to not steal every fucking thing they could get their hands on from work because "state property" meant everything is both nobody's and everyone's.

Agriculture suffered from that the most, of course, and food security is also vital for state development. Collective farms just don't fucking work, ever.

>If we want to build socialism all over the world, then where will we buy grain?

>What would happen if we built socialism in Sahara?
>It would run out of sand.

>>771633
Don't forget that they tried to force a communistic revolution on a society that had barely undergone an agricultural or industrial one.

>>771633
>Yeah, if you have a society full of robots.
Propaganda. You can make the same kind of absurd arguments about capitalism making materialistic slaves of us all.

It could have been great. Get rid of the Lamarkian agricultural theory and let autocratic rule wither away after communism had already spread across the globe and it could have been great. We could have a base on Mars by now. Instead we slave our lives away for the benefit of elites, just so we can acquire meaningless scraps of luxury that they leave behind.

If you want to raise the literacy in Europe, hire a teacher.

If you want to raise literacy in Russia, hire a statistician.

>>771393
yeah i don't take credit for them though or claim it's no easy feat

Is it supposed to be an accomplishment that it took them 4 more years to develop an atomic bomb? I'd be more embarrassed than proud.

Also, who are these people that say the USSR never accomplished anything? Source? This isn't /pol/ bro.

>>771531
> As far as humanities goes, well, it was laughable according to any standards.
If you consider mathematics and engineering Soviet education was legit.

>>771713
Historic illiterates who buy into cold war propaganda.