Why do you believe in an evil God?

>>737498
>Why do you believe in an evil God?

Also try to prove me that God is not evil (see the video / videos for more information).
Protip: you can't.

I'm waiting. ;)

>>737498
>Why do you believe in an evil God?
I don't.

/thread I guess.

>>737502
>I don't.

Good for you, then.

But I made this thread for religious people.
I'd like to hear their version.

>>737498

Watching the summary is perfectly enough, by the way.
It contains all the weak arguments of believers (the same ones that Anons on 4chan use all the time).

>>737498
I'm not religious and couldn't be bothered to watch all of that video, but I like to speculate that people follow religions because no one can prove what happens after you die, aside the whole you lose all conscience forever thing, and that people are so scared of that that they turn to religion for possible hope that it doesn't have to be that way. With Christianity as an example, obeying a "harsh" God would seem like the only option if one wouldn't want to burn in hell forever OR lose all consciousness forever. I also imagine that it partially tied into religion being present in one's childhood before they can truly have independent critical thought, which allows the mindset to mold their way of thinking for later years. Thus, religious people convince themselves that following a "harsh" (Might as well keep using that word...) God is for the best, and there is no other possible outcome that is good. Not many people want to cease to exist or burn forever, if any at all.
But of course, like I already said, I'm not religious and I didn't watch the videos because I'm too lazy right now to watch anything over five or so minutes. So this is only from my own barely-informed point of view, and I would love to hear what a religious person would have to say about all of this.
I'll probably lurk here later on today.

>>737503
>Implying there is only an evil God
You fucked up.

>>737610
>implying a benevolent God would create this universe of death and destruction
Durr.

>>737616
>implying a benevolent God would create this universe of death and destruction
You sound like a crypto-atheist, Anon.

Any of the faithful should know that God works in Mysterious Ways.

>>737619
>Any of the faithful should know that God works in Mysterious Ways.

Watch the video, buddy... and prepare your anus!

>>737622
>Summary opens with a quote from Epicurus
>Summary is 20 min long
The only evidence so-far is that the long-version pt.1 is merely ~8 min long. That is, indeed, a cruel joke.

That said, the question of evil is a dead horse by now. Even an atheist can understand that the concept of good is meaningless without evil, such that one cannot appreciate the good without evil by comparison, thus that one cannot conceive of God let alone worship him without Evil as a foil.

>>737498
I want to believe in a good God but cannot.

Usually I see God in the deist manner, that He moved some parts for us and abandoned us like a deadbeat dad.

Then I think of how fucked up humanity can be, how worthless human life is as shown through our natural processes like miscarriages and birth defects and the fact that He watches us suffer and does nothing to alleviate it. That's when I start feeling if God is there then he's malevolent.

My view changes based on how depressed and world weary I feel.

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>>737630

>>737645
>Points out that "God" is not necessarily an "Evil God"
>Explains how the "Problem of Evil" is worn out
>This blows the fuck out of the OP
>It must be "Autism"

Nice argument. Mind writing that out as a syllogism? It might be funny.

>>737619
>Any of the faithful should know that God works in Mysterious Ways.
That's true, it's really mysterious why the almighty decided to allow a force of creation to spawn in this vast sea of destruction. Maybe it's just so we could comprehend the meaninglessness of it all.

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>>737619

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>>737674
kekkity-kek

>>737630
>The only evidence so-far is that the long-version pt.1 is merely ~8 min long. That is, indeed, a cruel joke.

That's not an argument.

>That said, the question of evil is a dead horse by now

Why?

>the concept of good is meaningless without evil

Nothing to do with religion or God.

>one cannot appreciate the good without evil by comparison

This is nonsensical.

>one cannot conceive of God let alone worship him without Evil as a foil

This is a flawed argument.
See my previous comments.
Also watch the video again - the summary is perfectly enough.

Good and evil are relative.
Morality is not about religion / God and vice versa.

If there is an evil god then Calvinism is true

>>737891
>If there is an evil god then Calvinism is true

... or Gnosticism.

>>737498
Wow I-I'm...I'm speechless. I can't believe I never realized it before in my life. Just look at that master YouTubian at work talking for 20 mins. Forget about it! 1 minute was enough to see the light. I mean it's right there and everything. Hell and all that crap what garbage. It was right there in the Bible all along. I can't imagine after all this time reading it I must've skipped all those parts of something.

>>737941

Any arguments?
Hmm?
I believe in you. ;)

>>737498
It seems that the videos are too powerful and religious anons are utterly BTFO.

Well, it was a short debate...

Thomas Aquinas on the problem of evil:

>Objection 1: It seems that God does not exist; because if one of two contraries be infinite, the other would be altogether destroyed. But the word "God" means that He is infinite goodness. If, therefore, God existed, there would be no evil discoverable; but there is evil in the world. Therefore God does not exist.
>Reply to Objection 1: As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

>>737498

Why do you call God "evil", and expect to live?

>>737498
I am not in a place where I can watch your ridiculous Youtubes. If you cannot make the arguments yourself, DON'T MAKE THE THREAD.

God's evil because God made a place to keep all evil away from His children? God's evil because men and angels choose to be evil?

This is kindergarten nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v-tcaIZ02I

>>737498
>talking about evil and good without believing in "god"

shiggy

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Does this look like an evil God to you?

>>739616
>Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil."

So he's evil... or not omnipotent.
Watch the video, seriously!

If he'd be good, no evil would exist whatsoever.
If he'd be omnipotent (and good), he wouldn't create evil to play this "bring good even out of evil" game - he wouldn't even create evil in the first place or could remove it in no time.

>>739639

What did he mean by this?

>>739671
>I am not in a place where I can watch your ridiculous Youtubes.

You'll answer later - no problem, buddy.

>If you cannot make the arguments yourself, DON'T MAKE THE THREAD.

But I did. More than once. Even in this post.

>God's evil because God made a place to keep all evil away from His children?

God is evil because he created evil in the first place.
Or is he not omnipotent?

>God's evil because men and angels choose to be evil?

If he'd created a place where evil is not possible... see? He created the concept of evil, too.
Also if you're "evil", he will send you to hell... for eternety. How nice!

Just think about it: even the whole Garden of Eden story is nonsensical - why did God let to sin?
If he wouldn't put the trees of knowledge and life to there, it wouldn't be possible to fall.

Also if he knows everything, then he must knew what's going to happen.
Why didn't he stop them?

"Muh free will" - if I'd know that 10 seconds later my brother will fall into a well, I'd save him, because I love my brother, I love my family.
I wouldn't let him die just because he has free will.

>>740064

No, Anon: it is YOU who believe in such dangerous ideas.
Many people died because of them.

You should admit that
1, The God you believe in seems to be absolutely evil
2, It is nonsense to believe in such God
3, Religious people are / were wrong.
4, Religious people should stop believe in such nonsense.

>>739683
>Magical sign on the sky that "Hi, I'm God"

First of all: any believable sign from God (and not from prophets or any mortals) would be perfectly enough.

Secondly: A good God wouldn't hide from his children.
He wouldn't need signs.
Everybody would know that he exists.

>You don't desire to find God.

But I do. That's what this thread is about.

>Free will.

We already discussed that.
It's like telling orphans that his / her parents left here because he / she has free will.
Nonsense. A parent (/ God) should never leave or hide from his / her child(ren).

cont.

>>739683
>ye old "hide and seek game" argument, aka "Those who reject me won't find me, hahaha, but those who want me will find me"

Again: why would a good God act like that?
If God wants us to praise him, then why does he hide?

And we want to find him, in this topic, right?
Still no signs!
And what about those religious people who suffer?
If they found God, why do they still suffer?

>>739683
>you need to "deserve" to find him

Wew, lad!

Again: God seems to be an asshole.

>God wants my glory, so he gives me zero evidence about his existence, leave me alone in a limited physical environment, he leaves me to die here, etc..
>It'd be no fun if God just "shine" on us, etc

Yeah, it's pretty fun to live our pathetic, miserable life without this God, huh?

I mean it's all about us and our glory, amirite?

>You can't avoid yourself and God.

I can't avoid two things in life, you're right about this one, Unfunny Misguided Old Man: myself and ANNOYING religious people.

I wasted 5:49 of my life - thank you, Anon!

why are these topics up all the time?
are you all american or what other country obsesses with your personal beliefs?

>>737498

>arguing over God's existence

*tips fedora*

Study some mystics, friendo.

>>737498
Protip: He's literally the opposite of evil.

>>742537

*tips cross*

Answer some questions, friendo.

>>742551

Protip: He's literally evil.

>>737498
I understand your concern, OP, no one likes evil. But I must ask, on what do you base what is good or evil? If it is subjective, then of course you'd think God is evil, because everyone doesn't agree on subjective matters, for it is subjective. If it is not subjective, but objective, what do you base that on? Necessarily not on yourself.

>>742887

The attack is obviously on the idea that God is good (or love).

Other than that, you're right.

>>742391
>If he'd be good, no evil would exist whatsoever.
>If he'd be omnipotent (and good), he wouldn't create evil to play this "bring good even out of evil" game - he wouldn't even create evil in the first place or could remove it in no time.

You don't know that. He's fucking God. It's very possible that there's a lot of stuff we don't understand about him. All this suffering we experience in this world may turn out to be a good thing in the end. We just don't know.

>>743736

You are right, but if this is true

>We just don't know.

Then this means we can't really trust God.

>>743851
Well if God is God, I would argue that he has to be good.

So either God doesn't exist or all suffering will be good in the end.

>>737633
And yet God remains the same.

>God's evil
>guess I'd better stop believing in him so he'll send me to hell for torment
retarded desu

>>742391

How can you not know that this "problem of evil" has not been addressed ad nauseum for thousands of years?

I mean, why do you call God "evil", and expect nothing bad will happen to you?

In other words, if one of you is Good, and the other Evil, is it not obvious that YOU are evil?

>>743851

Are you insane?

If you cannot trust God, whom do you trust? The devil? Yourself?

God created life.
Life = good
Even if you experience pain in life, it's better than death
Death/non-existence = bad

>>743914
Exactly. To even speak of good and evil, of right and wrong, requires a framework that only God can objectively provide.

To say God is evil is to say up is down, white is black, and 2 + 2 = 5.

OP, as it's literally impossible for you to have children, imagine if you would a man with children, and a rabid dog running at them. The man has a gun, and is an expert shot.

The man obviously shoots and kills the dog.

And you're the one saying the man is evil, for protecting his children from the rabid dog.

Get a grip. Life's hard. Wear your helmet.

>>743966
>And you're the one saying the man is evil, for protecting his children from the rabid dog.
What a ridiculous strawman. Not OP, but he never said anything of the sort. The all powerful master of the universe has the ability to ensure that the dog never becomes rabid so there is never any confrontation between the man and the dog.
The man has no options other than allowing his children/himself to get killed/mauled or shooting the dog that has a fatal illness and no real ability to make rational decisions.

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This thread is a perfect example of why if you want to criticize the tenants of a religion, it's actually a mistake to recognize their beliefs as valid. So for example if you say "God is evil", you are tacitly accepting that God is real. The counter-arguments will also come from that position ("No, God is good"), and they will have the full authority of the religious text to back up these assertions. Far better (in fact more accurate) to say that "The Character of God seems evil" without validating the religious text, because then you can apply objective literary analysis, without opening the door for counter-assertions. So actually the purpose of the discussion is not to change the beliefs of the opponent, but to show a hypothetical onlooker the unreasonableness of the opponent's position. Your goal in the discussion is not to discredit the character of God, but to show that belief in such a figure is sociopathic, unreasonable, or harmful to real human beings. Here you have the advantage that God is imaginary while real existent human beings are tangible and appreciable to the audience. Your most convincing way to go about this is to appeal to innate human psychology, which will subconsciously impress any ethical person, rather than butt heads with dogma, which the religious person will never admit fault. The more you can make the opponent speak like a deranged cultist who is obligated to concede reprehensible points to defend their faith, the better for your position.
That's assuming that you are trying to make honest argumentation, that bar is a little too high to expect.

>>743992
He absolutely did. God is evil for making hell, and putting rebel demons and men into it, for eternal punishment.

Thank you, God, for making hell, and confining all of my immortal enemies into it.

Love you big guy!

>>744027
A strange glimpse into a mind who loves lies, and those who craft them.

Aren't you grateful at all that God has managed eternity for you, that you and He don't ever have to live together?

Isn't that what you want?

>>744047
I don't believe in God, so your threats and in fact most of this entire thread means nothing to me.
I'm offering advice to the OP.

>>744052
I know. You are a child of the father of lies, as I already pointed out. You did not need to confess what was already known.

You love lies, and those who lie, and most the people who make beautiful lies.

You are lost. Your disbelief in God is not powerful enough to overthrow the Almighty.

>>744065
You are literally crazy.

>>744080
You are literally a reprobate.

Do you think it stings, being called "crazy" by a reprobate? It's like being called "crazy" in Opposite Land.

>>744092
Ultimately you are still a human being, so you must have some shred of social awareness and empathy. So I presume it does sting you even a little, if you are confronted with your self-imposed isolation. I'm not surprised you have such strong defense mechanisms to discount what other people say.
Really you are just fulfilling my purpose, which is to demonstrate unreasonable behavior which comes from dogmatic belief. Anyone who read what you type will see this.

>>744065

Damn son, you sound like a lunatic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-okHc4NNzo

>>744248
Hmmm, it's almost as though the things of God were foolishness to the world. If only my God would have warned me.

1 Corinthians 1
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

In this way, you can know that you are perishing.

>>744150
I am not, actually. Another bad assumption on your part.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Your "wisdom" doesn't impress me. Do you think it will impress God?

>>744290

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

>>744296
>Your "wisdom" doesn't impress me.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

>Do you think it will impress God?

"Do you think it will impress my imagined friend?"

Sure, buddy, sure. ;)
Just don't forget to take your medicine, ok?

>>744306
The bible is just my opinion? I am God?

Sweet!

>>744363
>I am God

No, you're a HERETIC!

>>744322
My imaginary friend......about whom people wrote more than 3500 years ago.....

>>744374
Yeah, I guess Anon was wrong to call me God. I'm just one of His many adopted brothers.

>>737498

By saying God is evil you presupposing His existence.

At that point, it's not really a matter of "belief".

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>>744436
>By saying God is evil you presupposing His existence.

>>744436
Don't try to talk sense to atheists. They say God does not exist, and that He is evil, and that they hate Him, without any regard for consistency.

>>737498
>Also try to prove me that God is not evil

Why do you say He is evil?

>>737498
>implying all the crazy shit in the OT was not just what Jews said about their God to scare other tribes and it just got written in years later.

You anon, have to explain why you do consider God evil.

And don't say you posted a video, you DON'T hold the copyright probably to none of the songs or images that you are playing in those videos, and since you're actually reaping a benefit here, it is actually commercial usage, still, images are a silly thing, since just by browsing you can accidentally open some, music however isn't, I am also not considering other items, since I cannot play the video other specially protected items might be inside -and not considering means that I don't know of their existence, not that I don't care-.

Since UNLIKE YOU, I choose actively to avoid evil, you will have to explain to me your reasons, as such a good person like you are and totally not evil, you will understand that I do not desire to be some thug.

But really, quite plain and simple, and I'm sure this will answer EVERY QUERY YOU MAY HAVE NOW AND FOREVER.

1. If you accept that there is a God so you can judge if He is evil or not, you will have to abide to the rules that determine this.
2. These rules are the things that actually define reality according to the bible.
3. The moment you decide what norms apply or not, you're fabricating a strawman to your desires, and you are not in position to judge shit, so yes, you have to accept these premises.
4. Therefore I'm going to mention a simple rule, which is a biblical canon, that you will have to accept, to understand things.

-The world, is in the hands of the devil, and most of the people in the world are fallen angels that obey satan, therefore yes, it is reasonable that such evil creatures would get considerable ammounts of disgraces along with the normal people.

So think at least once before claiming this or that time an innocent died.

Now: Do you have any other reason to claim God is evil?

Do mention them.

>>744570
OP is long gone, dude.

>>744633

There are still people here defending his ponence, however.

>>744570
>most of the people in the world are fallen angels that obey satan

People are not angels.
Only angels are... well... angels.

It's a very embarrassing mistake, anon.

>>744711

No, the bible is very clear about this, either you accept the premise or discuss a strawman belief that you can comfortably desing at your pleasure so it is actually the way you exactly like to criticize.

>>744570
>And don't say you posted a video, you DON'T hold the copyright probably to none of the songs or images that you are playing in those videos, and since you're actually reaping a benefit here, it is actually commercial usage, still, images are a silly thing, since just by browsing you can accidentally open some, music however isn't, I am also not considering other items, since I cannot play the video other specially protected items might be inside -and not considering means that I don't know of their existence, not that I don't care-.

"I'm too lazy to watch a video.
Also that video contains too strong arguments against my religion, so I pretend to be a retard and talk as much bullshit about copyright, malwares (or something like that) as I can.
Maybe they won't notice."

>>744718

So you seriously believe that people are angels?
According to which Bible?

>>744728

>Please be evil.

No, I really am not a thug and I've already explained my ponence. I don't have why to commit a crime.

You see, you dont' get to pirate content and force people to consume it. This is not a benefit granted by a trillby.

>>744737

According to ALL of them, as long as they are christian bibles.

>>744728

It is also very noticeable how you ignore my prepared answer as to how God would not be evil in spite of whatever bullshit you may have placed in those videos.

Tends to work like a charm, and your avoidance of the topic sings the song of your people.

why do you le memebleive in a memevil le meme xDDDD *tips*

>>744711
Satan's children are also satan's messengers; they do the work of satan's kingdom by lying. "Angel" means "messenger".

>>744737
See >>744778

Maybe try to take a bite out of the main course, and stop choking on a bit of bread.

>>744728
>that video contains too strong arguments against my religion

Hooo boy, what a surprising surprise, I have disabled audio and enabled subtitles so I could watch the video, and guess what? The video was already refuted by the comment I posted before even watching it.

Care to tell me how does it not?

That picture reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htvu__EaUyQ

>>744065
>You are a child of the father of lies
He's a jew?

This thread truly proved that religion is a mental illness.
No logic or rational debate can convince a fanatic.

>>737498
>Why do you believe in an evil God?

Because you're a Muslim?