By definitions are USA and Canada nation-states?

>>729206
USA is an empire

>>729206
No.

Yes. Why wouldn't they be?

>>729209
And why?

>>729213
>>729209
Here we go.

>>729213
>>729214
because there's no such thing than US or canadian nation.

>>729214
A nation is comprised of one or similar tribes. The US and Canada are immigration pools. Even with one dominant group, as the WASPs were, they aren't a nation. I agree that the US are an empire though.

>>729241
But what if they do have the identity of the American nation?

>>729382
that's eccentric at best. Like claiming you're the opposite gender.

>>729214
nations are created for the benefit of ones people

US was more created to test out enlightenment theories than benefit a certain people

Canada is a dominion of the English crown, said England itself isn't a nation neither

>>729395
>A nation state is a geographical area that can be identified as deriving its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign nation

I don't see why USA and Canada don't fit in...?

>>729424
B-but nation isn't the same as nation state right?

>>729432
>A nation state is a geographical area that can be identified as deriving its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign Nation

Maybe read the next sentence. too.

>A state is a political and geopolitical entity, while a nation is a cultural and ethnic one

>>729206
no, they don't have leading nations, amalgam of random unrelated nationalities who are alienated from their origins

now if you made canada an eskimo state and us a cherokee state that would be different

>>729438
nation-state describes the type of state it is

that being the nation type

>>729448
While the ethnic aspect definitely doesn't apply, it can be argued that Americans and Canadians have a cultural one.

>>729459
>>729448
Thought there are more nuance on the definition.
So the only nation states that meet all criteria are the ones in west Europe, Japan and Korea , and a few invented ones in Asia that cause shitstorm every year?

>>729500
No, it can't. There isn't even a common language. Even immigrant groups from the 18hundreds haven't completely been assimilated. And recent immigration shifts the anglo-dominated "western culture" towards hispanic. Empire, yes. Nation, no.

>>729507
pretty much yeah. no one ever said that "nation state" is some sort of norm.

No, but the individual states and provinces are.

A better question is, is Mexico?

>>729520
Except a guy I've been arguing for days saying all modern states are nation states and the invented nationalism and the introduction of the concept of nation-state are not at least 20% of the cause to the crisis in places like middle east, Yugoslavia and Hongkong.

>>729545
Originally not, now Mexico is possibly more of a nation than the US.

>>729209
>>729241
this

>>729545
>No, but the individual states and provinces are.
no they aren't. There's no such thing as a nevadan nation for example. You guys need to remember nation=ethnicity. There is no american or canadian ethnicity, it's founders are english and scottish.

>A better question is, is Mexico?
now that's a question. Is there a mexican ethnicity? I'm not sure there is, they are like USA, you have white mexicans, mestizos, blacks, natives etc. But i think the mestizo majority identifies with the natives and consider themselves a nation and descendants of the mayans and aztecs. But agian I'm not really sure what's really going on in spanish america, I'm definitely no expert on this.

Why is the U.S. an empire, don't you need a monarchy for that?

>>729603
>nation=ethnicity

>>729621
Yes. What did you think it meant?

>>729629
Ethnicity implies more about the cultural heritage and nationality has more to do with being a political entity.
Both are invented tho.

>>729644
>nationality has more to do with being a political entity.
Isn't that what a state is? It's pretty confusing.

>>729644
Or like in the nation states like France, French is nationality while Breton is an ethnicity in it.

>>729647
It is.
Westerners made shit lot more complicated.
t. chinese

>>729649
Then aren't all states nation states by that definition?

British = nationality
english = ethnicity

American = nationality
Afro-american = ethnicity/race/whatever

>>729654
I think nation in the context of nation-state implies ethnicity.

>>729664
All those were invented anyway. The one I hate is the exclusivity.

>>729675
What do you mean?

>>729208
>USA is an empire
Fuck me sideways, it is, isn't it? A group of states with a centralized government and no such thing as an ethnic "United states-arian".

>>729382
I can claim to be Korean, doesn't make it true.

>>729690
I was >>729558. A guys I was arguing claiming that invented nationalism with a strong sense of exclusivity dindu nuffin creating identity crisis everywhere.

>>729675
>>729690
Exclusion is inherent in definition because it makes a positive example of a definition and a negative.

Saying that there is a "German" with "German traits" stereotypes Germans with those traits, and if you aren't like that then you aren't "German".

The very nature of history has made people and populations mix, and the concept of "pureblood" is laughable.

But regardless of our creation of races and nations, it still doesn't make them not exist.

>>729208
No it fucking isnt this meme needs to die. Besides some Pacific shitholes no one cares about, what foreign people are the US occupying?

>>729206
I feel like most White Americans would be considered one "people" with similar core values, language, and cultural tradition. The genetic difference between a 9th generation English and a fourth generation Pole is negligible.

>>729892
>I feel like most White Americans would be considered one "people" with similar core values, language, and cultural tradition
You guys are an extension of Euronigger identity. Deal with it.

...or not. Who knows what all those Asians & Africans have in store for your identity on the long run.

>>729879
All 50 states.
*tips

When will Americans and Canadians be considered their own ethnicity?

The English are just a mix of Angles, Saxons and Britons yet we consider English an ethnicity.

>>729613
No. An empire is when many states and/or nations of some sort are conquered, either directly (invasion, annexation, selling) or indirectly (economic, puppeting, diplomatic), and governed out of some loose central power, with each province maintaining parts of its own laws and identity while also serving the greater will.

Official definition: an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly especially an emperor or empress.

...formerly especially an emperor or empress... as in that is not a distinction anymore.

>>729424
>US was more created to test out enlightenment theories than benefit a certain people
Wouldn't that mean it benefited people who embodied enlightenment theories, meaning the landed, Protestant, English voter?

>>729879
We are not occupying any foreign states but people from foreign states are occupying our own land.... that's an empire

>>731285
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>729206
Yes there exists a distinctly American culture and a pretty distinct Canadian culture.

>>729516
>There isn't even a common language
wew
>Even immigrant groups from the 18hundreds haven't completely been assimilated
double wew

USA has what's called constitutional patriotism. They don't have loyalty to the nation like in say Italy or Norway as a way of maintaining the country together. Americans worship their laws and as long as people follow the laws anyone can me American.

The current migration crisis is largely because America has been exporting constitutional patriotism to Europe but it doesn't just magically transition over. Nope, there's going to be blood and violence for decades.

>>729603
I'm Mexican and no, Mexico is not a nation-state. All new world countries are not nation states.

>Tfw no American Empire.
>No complete imperial domination of North and South America.
>No xenophobia, hate, and abuse towards a group of people based solely on their nationality and not being an American.

>>729206
USA is, but it's politically incorrect to say so.

our overwhelming majority population are the largely Protestant (historically) anglo and scottish settlers who came from England and Ulster prior to the revolution. these are your "ethnic Americans", and they primarily live in the midlands, Atlantic coast and deep south, with colonies in California and the pnw.

>>729241
if this is so, then there are no englishmen, just immigrants from saxony.

>>731826
Englishmen is a far more tangible and culturally-supported concept than "American."

>>729892
there are distinct differences in whites.

as an ethnic American (Id est, an Ulster Scot of pre-revolutionary immigration) living in a German blooded community with immigration coming in the mid 1800s, I can definitely see the difference in the local's ethnic culture and my own.

>>729919
blood (that is, chinks and niggers living in our land) has nothing to do with what makes us different from you.

our history of being a country that never experienced a noble class and began as dumbfucks dicking off innawoods with radically different religious beliefs than you is what separates us far more than blood.

File: images (3).jpg (11KB, 347x346px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 347x346px

Id est, an Ulster Scot

>>729206
USA is closer than Canada since there is no French USA, but still no I would say they aren't I don't think there enough shared customs from one part of the country to another.

>>731850
on what grounds? because as far as I'm seeing, you're making an assertion without any grounds.

>>729206
Canada: English-Canadian nation, French-Canadian nation, many First Nations.
America: African-American nation, Hispanic-American nation, Everyone-Else nation, and many First Nations.
I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.

>>731867
Nation-STATES

>>731878
That's what I mean. Canada and the USA are not nation-states; they are each states made up of many nations.

>>731285
That's not what an empire is you fucking faggot.
>>729208
No.

>>729695
No, you fuck, that doesn't make it an empire.

>>729516
>There isn't even a common language
But that's wrong.

>Even immigrant groups from the 18hundreds haven't completely been assimilated.
Which ones, you ignorant cunt?


>>731787
I wouldn't say we worship our laws, so much as we worship a commonly held belief system about what constitutes just and unjust behavior.

The actual judicial and legislative bodies are not looked on with any sort of kindness, and people see nothing wrong with ignoring laws, or calling for the blood of people who pass shit that doesn't agree with their interpretations of what should be legal.

Otherwise, yes. This.

>>731821
Germans outnumber those groups considerably.

>>731878
depending on how autistic we want to get with categories, one could declare each county in the US to be both a state and ethnically distinct.

>>729208
usa is technically an empire with the philipines, but they're fucking irrelevant.

tbqhf us is just a nation state. It's technically a federation, but >implying states rights

>>731940
Every square inch of the USA is conquered land. Idk why everyone forgets this.

>>731950
every inch of all land is conquered

Not saying might makes right, but that doesn't change the definition of what is and isnt an empire

>>731950
Except that's wrong. Plenty of it was acquired through trade.


>>731940
Not really. They're a fully sovereign nation and can elect to evict the US from their islands at any tiem.

>>729206
For me the concept of a nation is tied to ethnicity so no. Both Canada and the US are too pluralistic to ever be considered nation states.

>>729208
Who is the emperor?

>>729424
>US was more created to test out enlightenment theories than benefit a certain people

go read some early state constitutions, they were pretty clear that they were white protestant nations.

>>729892
I'd say there are five major white American groups, excluding smaller groups like mormons or cajuns. However these lines are melting away as most american whites become cosmopolitan.

>Appalachians
Hillbilly descendants of late 18th century backwoods settlers, range from Alabama and Georgia to Pennsyltucky

>Midwesterners
Mostly German, live in the rustbelt, midwest, and mountains

>Ethnics
19th/20th century immigrants from ireland/italy/poland/jewland. Mostly live in large urban metros like Philly, NYC, Chicago

>Puritans
original british settlers in New England, strong emphasis on education/work. Traded in puritan religion for liberalism in the 20th century.

>Good Ol' boys
original british settlers of the Old South and later Deep South. Excessive pride and kneeslapping. Probably the most militantly "american" because they worship the early republic which was when they held the most power.

>>731950
>Perchased from france and russia >Conquered from spain and mexico
Idk why people forget about this lel

>>733597
And then you have people who are all of the above like me

Canada is a multinational state. We've got anglos, Quebecers/French-Canadians, first nations, and all the immigrants coming in and forming their own little communities.

The good thing is that the "nations" that make up Canada are based more or less on language, so racism isn't as huge of a problem as it is in the US. That being said, a huge majority of first nations people still hate the whites, and pretty much everyone else sees the first nations as absolutely fucked up.

>>733748
t. Mcmansion dweller who brings his dates to P.F. Chang's

>>731859
>Talking about blood.
Fucking kek.

Was talking about whatever cultural baggage those Asians/Africans brought with them.

Its taking you even further away from being a nation state.

>>733804
Swing and a miss, try again

File: donald-trump.jpg (51KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 300x300px

>>733514
Just you wait and see ;)

>>729879

The US composes of thousands of miles of territory with hundreds of different ethnic and cultural groups with only a vague sense of national identity, that coupled with overseas holdings by definition makes it an empire.

>>733740

Oh you mean land that was never theirs to sell with tribes living in those areas that had no fucking say or even a fucking clue that the purchase took place. This fucking meme needs to die.

>>729879
>ctrl+F
>No hegemony

>>729879
THE SOUTH

Is Russia a nation-state?

>>733844
I know, chances are you're not a home owner or go on dates

>>730542
This
You'll never see a Canadian pride themselves on Canadian ancestry. Even if their family has been here since the 1600's, they still say they are British.

>>735971
The people who post on /his/ aren't typically intelligent enough to understand what a hegemony is.

Plus, they only understand meme history, so the idea that the US isn't an empire isn't a thing they can typically conceive of.

>>735968
They aren't humans and didn't even know the concept of land ownership.

wat movie is the screenshot?, is it good?

America has a culture. Canada has two (arguably 4) major cultures.

America has its "melting pot." English-speaking, freedom-loving. Hamburgers, suburbs. All of these are cultural elements. American English is a distinct group of accents.

Canada has two main cultures. The primary is the English Canadian culture, which owes much to the UK, but also to the United States. Along with immigrants, it is a mixed culture, which combines elements of both. Canadian English also has very distinct dialects and accents.

French Canadian culture is the most unique in North America. It was geographically removed from France for 400 years, and politically removed for 200 of those. The French of Quebec (not to mention Acadians) have a very complicated history, which is intertwined, but also distinct from English Canadian history. Much of it has common values, history and artistic products in common with its English counterpart, as well as its own wealth of dialects within its accent.

Tl;dr, stop being a faggot, OP. White is not a nation.

>>736480

>/pol/tarding intensifies

>>729250
>A nation is comprised of one or similar tribes.
What a stupid definition.

this will touch basis with what you are trying to establish, somehow.
i was told about a regression hypnosis, situation. Involving military extra curricular matter and co-incidentals retrieved from the mental archives of those studied. What was established is similar to scientologists founders observation with a different tone to it and less far fetched. It shows a war being fought and in order to come to a deal with western and eastern powers U.S. had to separate from Canada. A country larger than Russia. In the beginning the war was fought on foreign soil. School aged children were given a person number, district number, regional number and age group number (that would change). If they were called for early duty due to genetic work and intelligence, they'd be called from classes and began an extra regiment. Besides that once they got to a specific age, they'd be let known what is going on about the switching of people etc. For the majority of time, due to efficiency, people had to be put to sleep in their immortal recesses.
Once the war came to home soil. All the kids were hid. And the invaders found it much more efficient to trap soldiers rather than kill and mind cleanse them (truth serum) in order for them to give up future positions.

>>738334
Basically if the U.S and Canada were to be one country it'd be seen far a bigger threat than Russia.

an empire requires an emperor, you fucking mongoloids, not just controlling foreign territory

>>731955
What about Louisiana purchase?

>>729206
We were, until the damn continentals started showing up.

>>738599
Lelno.

Most experts who study the Empire phenomena use Centers and Peripheries framework.

So an Empire would be a large composite state consisting of an imperial metropole ruling over peripheries direct/indirectly, and is agreed not to be a liberal government.

So Njall Ferguson can fuck off with his Angloboo definitions.

>>729206
No, they are ex-colonies made up of recent immigrants without an actual nationality. It's just pure cringe seeing them cry "USA" over and over again in desperation and anxiety.

>>729382
I personally indentiy myself as a Yugoslav, but that doesn't mean Yugoslavia exists.

>>729879
Cultural occupation of the whole world, except for a few privileged exceptions.

>>729206
Can any American tell me When did White colored man first landed on American continent?