Tell me about the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth

It was a commonwealth that was Polish and Lithuanian.

>>642477
Should have allied the Turks instead of the shifty backstabbing Austrians.

They would still be a superpower today.

>>643136
OP BTFO

>>642477

>poland
>lithuania
>wealth

ayy lmao

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>>644753

>>642477
Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth best commonwealth

>>644753
there is a difference between wealth and commonwealth senpai

>>642477
Collapsed by a retarded democracy privilege law
>t Liberum Veto

>>642477
Out of European countries, P-LC had by far the largest amount of nobles in society, with c. 25% of population being nobility at its peak. That's huge. Then compare that to the next one on the list, Spain, with ~10-15% being nobility and France, who had less than 1% of nobles by the time the French Revolution took place, and you begin to see why P-LC wad a nobles' republic.

Too 'progressive' for its time.

Biggest proof after Athens that democracy sucks

it could've been so much more

>"Polish"
>"Lithuanian"
>"Commonwealth"

It was a big state

>>644925
Actually, it was the opposite, since aristocratic privileges are inherently reactionary.

>>646639
For you

Lithuanians are still butthurt about us.

All I know about them I learned in EUIV
Did they really elect people of foreign nations to be king?

>>644753

>"Great"
>"Brittain"

Hahaha

>>644878
Some of the nobles were very poor, there were some classes of polish nobles:
Gołota - This guy literally had nothing, they just had sabres
Szlachta zagrodowa - They had like one building
Szlachta średnia - this guys had maybe a village
Magnats - welp, they well actual rulers of the country.

Pretty much some of kings were just paying the lower parts of nobility in order to win, and also the king was very low and he was under the richer nobles so they were introducing laws granting more power to them.

The started going very bad when they introduced Liberum Veto law, which allowed cancelling a gathering by one butthurt (or paid) noble.

>>646663
Mostly. They paid the best, the first elected king was total pussy (french).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_III_of_France

>>646761
>they just had sabres

it sounds really awesome and really depressing at the same time

>>646768
Sabres were a status thing, like knights and sword-bearing

It was thought to be very orient, keeping in lone with the Samartianist ideology

Anyone else /nobleman/ here?

I can trace my family back to some poor landless nobles of Herb Sas

>>644878
Fun fact, by Spanish Law of the 16th-17th century, every single inhabitant of the Basque Country was a hidalgo and therefore a nobleman

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To Lithuanians- How does it feel to have a majority of your historical artefacts in Belarus? Can you still go over and view castles, historical sites? Not sure how border controls works over there.

>>647278
What do you have over there?

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>>647278
>How does it feel to have a majority of your historical artefacts in Belarus?
Kinda sucks that our dukes didn't focus more on the former balt lands.
>Can you still go over and view castles, historical sites?
Yeah, we can. Altho most of us are satisfied with having Vilnius and shit.

>>648682
Wilno*

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>>648698
>mfw Polaks will never EVER have Vilnius

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>>642477
>Tell me about the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

It was the model upon which the Founding Fathers based the U.S. on, minus the nobility part (though that's not the case so much today...)

Liberum veto was a mistake

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>>648706

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>>647246
>Anyone else /nobleman/ here?

Of course there is nothing to back it up but according to family tradition at least, we're supposedly descended from Zawisza the Black, who fought at the Battle of Grunwald.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawisza_Czarny

>>644753
If you read how rich some of them were you would be amazed

For example read what Jerzy Ossolinski had prepared for his entry to Rome. And he was not even close to be most wealthy

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>>648555

I mean like this, a lot of the castles from the Grand Duchy are in modern day Belarus.

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>>644878
I'm guessing if you count the Holy Roman Empire as a single country, it would by far have the most nobles. There isn't a country in Europe that didn't have a german queen or king at one point. Need a noblewoman to marry your prince to? Germany is the place for you. Need a king for your kingless throne? Germany is the place for you.

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>>650393
gib

>>647278
could be worse, belarussians are ok, we can go there without much difficulty but people rarely do

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Did the Commonwealth have the worst government of all time?

>>651148
there is still US

>>651148
It wasn't that bad before deluge, after that yes.
Deluge created huge vacuum of power destroying the balance between nobles and it was impossible to make every magnate like you and support you.

Add in Hungary and Bohemia and you've got yourself the superpower of the little guys that should have been.

>>642477
I always was amazed by how its multicultural core was noticable even during ww2
Mainly during 16-17 century a lot of people would migrate to this country because it had great economy and religious tolerance, PLC seen massive exodus of tatars, jews, scotts, germans or even peasant/boyars from Russia

Even during ww2 some of people with such ancestry would be spilling blood for their new homeland which is pretty cool.

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>>647278
That's nice of the Poles to use the arms of the Kingdom of Sweden in their arms to remind themselves that they were cucked.

>>651537
Its the other way around. Polish Vasa kings used the title "king of Sweden" for around 50 years which pissed swedes to no end.
I know its bait but alliance with Sweden in 17th century would be pretty great for both of us, and instead we killed each other and Russia took the spoils.

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>>651542
Also, for example here's RARE coat of arms combined with electorate of Saxony.

rescue thread with potential

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>>650803
>The Holy Roman Empire was Germany

>>654249
Problem, Czechfag?

>>654249
The Holy Roman Empire was, primarily, made up of and governed by the regions and dominant states of those regions that today make up modern Germany.

The Holy Roman Empire was literally made up of German states as its most dominant members, therefore it's not exactly a crime for 'German states' to simply be referred to as 'Germany' on a discrete Oriental animation picture-website.

>>651148
>if it isn't centralized it is bad

Worst intellectual meme

They were the most honorable enemies of the ottomans.

>>643142
>Picking the Turk over Austria
>Ever

>>647278
>that image
>slavic people

No

>>650803
Well you'd guess wrong.

>>654864
And you base that statement on what?

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>poland got partitioned 3 times

When will litvins stop stealing our heritage?
We (Belarus) were true lithuanians, now those peasants act steal our heritage, shit on us and claim that they were polish brothers when i fact it was us

>>654912
4, sorry 5 if you count Vienna Congress.

>>642477
A weak federal power, similar to the Holy Roman Empire, that slowly deteriorated and was broken up. Through several hundred years it lost huge area of land.

It totally failed to reform its government. While Russia, Prussia and Austria gained centralized strong governments, the Commonwealth was so divided in its politics that it was unable to fight back.

Weak central power. Huge diversity. Wealthy land owners. Weak Kings from foreign houses. Weak standing army. All of these points help explain why the Commonwealth imploded.

>>647278
>that image
toplel, too bad we'll never see it outside of this thread