Why is the Median empire not considered the first Persian empire?

>>605576
Because the Medes are ethnically and culturally distinct from the Persians despite controlling roughly the same territory. That's like asking why the Seleucid Empire isn't considered the second Persian Empire, or why the Ottoman Empire isn't considered the Third Rome.

>>605597
But they were Iranic. Cyrus the Great's grandfather was an emperor of the Median empire.

>>605617
Again, saying they were both Iranic means very little in the Ancient world; that's like calling Thracians and Hittites the same because they were both Anatolian. The Medes were ethnically distinct from the Parsua, spoke a different language, had a different religion, and predominantly lived in a different section of Iran. That really makes them a different people.

>>605617
Remember that 5000 years ago ethnic diversity was an order of magnitude bigger and they all had some land to call their own

>>605576
Because the Persians were a separate iranian tribe.

>>605597
>Because the Medes are ethnically and culturally distinct
Nonsense

>>605617
If you said
>Why is the Median empire not considered the first IRANIC empire?
You would have a point
Iranic=/=Persian

They were Kurdish (or the ancestors of the Kurds)

i guess you could call them proto-persian, bexause the name persian didn't come about until later

like franks are to germans

>>605969
Kurds are a Mesopotamian and iranic mix

>>606263
Wrong, they had no presence in Mesopotamia until the fall of the Assyrian empire unless you mean they mixed.

>>605576
what did Median qts look like tho?
just asking the real questions here

>>605969
I know modern day iranians say this but is there any proof the medes and the kurds are the same peoples?

>>607651
No, Kurdish history started off with a bunch of mountain nigger gypsies coming down the mountains and killing Christians.

>>607651
>>608183
Kurds and Medes are not the same. First record of Kurds existing was in Xenophon's Anabasis when he mentioned being ambushed by a mountain tribe known as "Karduchoi" (which is most likely proto-Kurds)

>>608192
Poo-poo turds.

>>605576
>>605597
List of dynasties described as a Persian Empire
Median Empire (728-549 BC)
Achaemenid Empire (550–330 BC)
Seleucid Empire (312–63 BC)
Parthian Empire (247 BC–224 AD, also called the "Arsacid Empire"
Sasanian Empire (224–651), also called the "Empire of Empires"
Muslim conquest of Persia (633–654)
Samanid Empire (819-999)
Saffarid Empire (861-1000)
Seljuk Empire (1037–1194)
Khwarazmian dynasty (1077-1231), centered in Khwarezm
Mongol conquest of Khwarezmia (1218–1221) - Established the Ilkhanate (1256–1335)
Safavid dynasty (1501–1736)
Afsharid dynasty (1736–1796)
Zand dynasty (1750–1794)
Qajar dynasty (1785–1925)
Pahlavi dynasty (1925–1979)

The Yuan and Qing dynasties are still Chinese empires even though they were founded by non-Han.

>>608249
>The Yuan and Qing dynasties are still Chinese empires even though they were founded by non-Han

But China is somewhat special in that regard. Anyone that rules over them, they consider "Chinese"
>Manchurians are part of us
>Mongolians are part of us

Imagine if the Japanese had succeeded in conquering China. They would have eventually become "Chinese" as well.
>suddenly you realize Japan conquering China would have been the best thing to happen to them ever

>>605761
Its not nonsense. The current affairs of Iranian Studies suggest that the Medes were a distinct and separate tribe of Iranian peoples. You could think of Persians and Medes as distant cousins.

>>608249
Persian is the name of an ethnic group of Iranic peoples. There have really been only three Persian Empires. The others you listed have been Persian speaking/Persianate cultures but they were not Persian Empires.

>>607630
This

>>607625
Yea, modern Kurds are rarely "Aryan"

File: Black SLave, Yuan Dynasty.jpg (61KB, 383x428px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 383x428px

>>608354
>Imagine if the Japanese had succeeded in conquering China. They would have eventually become "Chinese" as well.
Wrongo.

The Yuan and the Qing - Mongols and Manchus- came from a culturally, technologically inferior background that adopted buttloads of Chinese institutions. They *literally* Chinesed themselves.

This is not compared to the Persian case, in which countless cultures imposed their culture upon the Persians.

>Imagine if the Japanese had succeeded in conquering China. They would have eventually become "Chinese" as well.
Japan in the 1800's meanwhile is modernized. At the same time, western modernity pretty much BTFO Chinese culture and reverence for it.

Pretty much the idea of the "Central Civilization" philosophy collapsed in the face of modernity: Barbarians "Can" exceed us. Mongol and Manchu conquest did not change this view because even if they won militarily -something which savages can do, according to Chinese- they still demonstrated that culturally, China was still the center of civilization by sinifying themselves.

>>608885
>This is not compared to the Persian case, in which countless cultures imposed their culture upon the Persians.
Dude, literally every culture that conquered Persia got massively persianized in 2-3 generations.

>>605597
>Because the Medes were ethnically and culturally distinct from the Persians
They were not. Secondly, most Iranianologists consider the Achaemenid/Persian Empire to be the second GREAT Iranian Empire. Cyrus was the maternal grandson of the last Median ruler, his family is in a sense continued under a related dynasty that rules a successor empire.

That's how its treated.

>>608885
>This is not compared to the Persian case, in which countless cultures imposed their culture upon the Persians.

Care to give some examples? The only one that comes to mind is their islamization and even today my (biased) view is that Iran is the most relevant Islamic nation in the middle east.

File: WE WUZ SHAHS N SHEIT.jpg (63KB, 954x514px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 954x514px

Were the Medes black?

>>605617
So are Kurds, but we don't see Saladin's Empire being called Persian

>>608183
>gypsies
What?