Was the Holocaust greatly exaggerated? Did the starving occur

>>601808
>Was the Holocaust greatly exaggerated?
Tends to be underexaggerated by a claim that it was unique to Europeans accused of being Jews.

This underreports the mass preventable deaths of Soviet Citizens, Yugoslavs, leftists, atheists, religious minorities, gypsies, etc.

>Did the starving occur because the supply lines were cut off?
In 1941 the Wehrmacht deliberately starved millions of Soviet POWs. This was before the Hunger Plan was general IIRC.

No and no. It wasn't only jews, though, plenty of russians, gypies and pows ended up in the camps and met horrible fates, but a lot of people think it was only jews or even worse, that the official sources claim there were only jews that died.

It's pretty disgusting how it's still used for political gain in Israel and elswhere too btw.

>>601808
>Was the Holocaust greatly exaggerated?
No. If anything, it has been highly under-exaggerated. See >>601817

>Did the starving occur because the supply lines were cut off?
No. Most of the Jews didn't die from being starved to death.

>>601808
Is OP a faggot?

Is this a /pol/ b8 thread?

The answer to both is yes.

>>601808

> Did the starving occur because the supply lines were cut off?

Unless you have some magic explanation as to how Jews, Slavs, and other "untermenschen" died in way higher numbers than western PoWs, no.

>>601808

Reminder that the holocaust refers to the systematic and *planned* execution of millions of Jews by the Nazi regime. To declare that Jews died, but only by supply line failure, is holocaust denial.

>>602041
>systematic and *planned*
No it fucking doesn't. Fuck off intentionalism scum. The entire German people and state were pulled into a functional genocide by millions of local desires to punish Jews and degrade Slavs.

>>602053

>what is hunger plan

>>602057
The hunger plan was a sectional plan by a segment of the bureaucracy which was never effectively implemented. It post dated spotaneous attempts to starve the stop line in 1941.

Nice try.

I wouldn't say it was exaggerated. It has vastly been misinterpreted to the point of becoming exaggerated. The information source becoming vastly corrupted. The hardest thing to do is to accuse a liar, who has been lied to, as a liar.

>>601808
I believe the methods used to kill the prisoners were exaggerated, but either way, millions of Jew, Soviets, Gypsies, etc. were systematically killed by accident or purposefully by the Nazi Empire. The actual use of gas chambers as a normal way to kill the prisoners is probably false. It is also hard to believe that the prisoners had to be tricked to go into the "gas chambers" by claiming that they were showers, when they were all held at gunpoint and didn't have a choice in the matter.

>>602571
I think this counts as an exaggeration. Same thing with the lampshades. Somehow to holohoax came up in conversation at my gym. I said I think it was slightly exaggerated. Mainly like the lampshades and bars of soap.

He said he saw a human skin lampshade IRL at a holocaust museum, so I went home and double checked, sure enough the lampshade never happened, and the myth actually probably originated from that Stephen King novel about the nazi-hunter boy.

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>>601808
rarely anyone died of starvation in the camps, the pile of corpses you see in the images are all dead of typhus. That's what these diseases could do to you

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>>602674
>and the myth actually probably originated from that Stephen King novel about the nazi-hunter boy.
Probably more from examples like pic related.

the images you see of dead people are powerful but most likely it's typhus in a desperate situation coming to the end of a losing war

I think at this point we can say nobody died from diesel fumes in treblinka nor was anyone gassed via cyanide in auschwitz

>>602900

The Institute of Forensic Research of Cracow would like to have a word with you.

And one wonders why they need such massive cremation capacities for if it was just desperation causing typhus deaths at the end of the war. If the Bauleitung documentation of June 1943 is accurate, they were building enough cremators to incinerate the entire camp's population in a week.

And let's not forget the enormous disparity in fatality rates between Western Allied PoWs and others; surely, typhus and overcrowding would kill everyone equally, yes?

>>602900
The thing is they had all these camps in the east and the soviets were gaining ground. So they transferred a lot of they important prisoners to the western camps, and they let a lot of prisoners go too.

So the western camps were overflowing with new prisoners, and they couldn't control the epidemic, because the camps were packed and they didn't even have enough supplies too, Germany was collapsing.

So most of the holocaust propaganda, movies and stuff that was shown to the public was footage from these camps.

There's lots of outright lies and bullshit going on with the holocaust so it's hard to know what actually happened in the camps (Einsatzgruppen shooting up the countryside is far simpler). I mean what kind of moron thinks it's believable to claim he survived being gassed 5 times?

>>602927
Makes no sense. If the end-goal was killing jews why did they even bother sending them to another camp? For that matter, why even build camps. Why not just kills Jews on site, or round them up and kill them in the town square? Rather than spending millions of dollars and expending thousands of soldiers to operate the camps, and transport all these jews.

>>602944
Everything about the purpose of the camps is explained here

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndGraf.html

>>602944
They did try the mass execution tactic at first. Look up the Einsatzgruppen and why they had to stop using them.

>>602979
It isn't like denialists read Chris Browning.

>>602053
Himmler said otherwise in Posen.

>>603014
And Himmler controlled Heer units on jew hunts.

Sure.

>>602962
>http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndGraf.html
Denialist claptrap.
Read Maus or any first-hand account of what it was like inside the camps.
The camps were places where undesirables (Jews, Communists, Romani, lgbtqs, and anyone opposed to the policies of the Nazis) were put to work. If they were worked to death, or starved, or got diseases, the Nazi administration didn't particularly care. Because children and old people obviously couldn't work as hard, they decided to skip the work part and just executed them right away in the gas chambers.
No one knows exactly how many Jews died as a result of Nazi policies, either in ghettos or the camps, either because of disease, malnutrition, or murder. 6 million is a reasonable estimate. Some historians think it's too high and say a more conservative estimate is as low as 4 million. Does that 2 million difference make it a lot better?

>>601808
a guillotine and a vessel more effective and cheap, and impossible to count.
Gas chambers and ovens was imbecile ideas.

>>603026
>the holocaust was centred in camps
Go read Chris Browning. Ordinary men.

>>601835
>under-exaggerated

>>603036
I didn't say it was centred in camps. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
Jewish life was cheap in Nazi territories even before the camps were set up. The camps just accellerated the genocide.

How many books and movies have been made about the non-jewish inmates?

>>602887

holy fuck that looks dreadful

>>603044
Thanks for correcting my spelling.

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>>603048
>Jewish life was cheap in Nazi territories
According to one book by jew, unfortunately I can't remember book title, >60% jews of Germany go out from it at 1939 year.

>>602887
>Be in middle school
>See Anne Frank production
>Holocaust survivor speaks afterwards (actually interned at the same camp as Frank, didn't know her though)
>Explains once being envious of a fellow skeletal figure gnawing on a dry chicken bone

Lol OK Anon believe what you want bruh

>>603059
Not enough. Sophie's choice was about a pole but that's literally all that comes to mind.

>exaggerated
no not at all

but i do think that over the years we have become desensitised to it since it is always being returned to as "the worst event ever" in an attempt to make sure it doesnt happen again

a lot of the time now when i think "holocaust" i just think of the music from schindlers list and nothing else

although that new movie Son of Saul looks absolutely brutal

>>603026
>this well sourced article is crap, read this comic book for the real story

>>603026
>Because children and old people obviously couldn't work as hard, they decided to skip the work part and just executed them right away in the gas chambers

Sweet sweet lies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7wwArD6MTc

>>603160
poltards are retarded and you are no exception
fuck off from this board

>>603178
Amazing counter arguments.

There were clearly marked Children Barracks at Aushiwtz, and I linked you video testimony about a former prisoner remembering how she used to organize a play for the children involving a piano and flowery backgrounds.

Maybe everything you read in your comic book isn't true :^)

>>603077
did he/she mention the masterbation machine too?

>>603067
Under-exaggerated means it's still exaggerated but less than usual lol.

>>603351
Learn about double negatives in standard english.

>>601808
It's all lie made up to hide fact that Nazis were so incompetent and disorganized that they caused deaths of milions of people who they just tried to relocat.

>>604179

Hans Frank's diaries would paint a different picture.

>>601808
the starving occured because the nazis where fighting a loosing war and couldent be bothered to feed them

i mean people living in the towns next to the concentration camps wherent starving so it wasent a logistical issue

>>603014
what Himmler said in Poznań?

>Muh supply lines

Funny how they had sufficient supply lines to keep their military running and supplies arriving at PoW camps housing Allied military personnel...

Germany should have really finished the job with the gypsies, nobody would miss them today, if you think otherwise you clearly never interacted with them.

>muh human rights

I also should have the right to not be mugged and our society would benefit from a lot of welfare money being wasted on these parasites.

>>605306

Welfare money not being wasted*

>>604262
>i mean people living in the towns next to the concentration camps wherent starving so it wasent a logistical issue
How can this blanket statement be made? Supply shortages were certainly not uncommon during the war, especially in the last two years.

>>603086

>comic book
>comic book drawn from a first hand account of life under the Nazi regime using mice and cat imagery as allegory

>>605318

>not an edgy, deliberately contrarian 15 year old role playing as an hardliners, insurectionary national socialis
>must be leftist

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>>605342
contrarian to what? a maximum of 400.000 people died at all the labour camps in Germany in total, and that's because of supply cut-offs, typhus outbreaks and air raids.
there's absolutely no evidence to support that 6 million people were gassed in total. and don't come back to me with muh first hand evidence because that can go both ways.

>>605360

>contrarian to what
>immediately posts about how the official Holocaust story isn't true

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>>605373
great argument. that definitely proved me wrong. you showed me.

>>605360
>there's absolutely no evidence to support that 6 million people were gassed in total
a good thing no one serious is claiming that, and instead the well evidenced killing of over five million jews and several million other ethnicities by various means, such as gassing but also execution by shooting, is claimed

>>605360

You are now aware that the biggest camps and the highest death totals were in Poland, where, surprise surprise, the plurality of European Jews lived.

>>605318

You must be absolutely mental if you think that Holcaust denial is mainstream right wing ideology and that anyone that disagrees with your zany conspiracy theory is a "leftist".

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>>605453
>>605460
>>605465
samefag
back to /lit/

>>605384

I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. You just lived up to the stereotype I posted, immediately after I posted it.

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>>605470

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>>605503
sure friendo

>>602027
Western POWs had Red Cross deliveries

>>605527

How? I thought the lines of communication were cut.

>>603059
They won't win you an Oscar
Look at how many oscars got to Holohoax films
A lot of actors end up sucking Jew dick and doing a Holohoax film to get into the big time acceptance

>>601808
Yeah but around 6 million still probably died.

Don't underestimate the overrepresentation of jews in media and academia. There's a reason kids learn about muh holocaust every year, but don't even know what the holodomor is.

>>605318
It's not leftist it's Israeli hasbra
Leftists are increasingly antiIsraeli

>>605547
http://www.redcross.org.uk/About-us/Who-we-are/Museum-and-archives/Historical-factsheets/Food-parcels
The Red Cross did it themselves
Remember this isn't modern war where the media over demonises the enemy to the extent they make up a term illegal combatant - as if they need a special licence and exam

>>605616

So the Red Cross had more effective means of getting to camps than the German government? Why did they only take supplies to camps housing Allied soldiers and not ones housing European civilians?

>>605616

> the parcels finally reached Geneva, where the International Committee of the Red Cross arranged for their distribution to prison camps in Germany and elsewhere.

That is literally all the article has to say about distribution. Which doesn't prove jack shit. Or comes up with an answer as to how they would cross the supposed cratered roads and railroads.

And then you have things like the situation at Bergen-Belsen, where you had food stocks nearby, just not given to the inmates, because hey, who cares?

Blind Eye to Murder, Tom Bower, Little Brown & Co., 1995, p. 128.

So if food was reaching the camps and people were starving, doesn't that prove that it was murderous intent, and not just shit happens in war?

>>605616

>not a modern war where the enemy are over demonised
>propaganda that litterally claims the enemy are racist caricatures at best or rats, vermin or monsters that must be destroyed

>>601808
If the National Socialist party didn't hate these people, then how do you explain Kristallnacht or the Nuremberg Laws?

>>605616

The Red Cross rebuilt all the trainlines and roads that had, apparently, according to you claims, been destroyed?

I smell so much jews in this thread. Yes, it is greatly exaggerated and I don't think it was something planned, they wanted to move jews far away but, you know, a war is expensive so who could care about jewish deaths. Yeah, there weren't only jews, they were just another racial group in camps, there were also political dissidents, slavs...

>>603178
>actual testimony from aushiwtz prisoners
>lalala I can't hear you everyone's retarded but me

>>605847

No one doubts that millions of Romani, Jews, ethnic Poles and Soviet POWs were also killed in the Holocaust.

Whether you count the slaughter of political dissidents, such as Sophie Scholl, an ethnic German who was, literally, beheaded by her Nazi oppressors for spreading leaflets is a different question, but one that only pertains to how you define the Holocaust, it doesn't prove the Nazis weren't cunts.

>>601808
As a Jew, I'm more inclined to believe it is exaggerated to a great degree

>>605847

No one doubts that millions of Romani, Jews, ethnic Poles, the disabled, homosexuals and Soviet POWs were also killed in the Holocaust.

Whether you count the slaughter of political dissidents, such as Sophie Scholl, an ethnic German who was, literally, beheaded by her Nazi oppressors for spreading leaflets is a different question, but one that only pertains to how you define the Holocaust, it doesn't prove the Nazis weren't cunts.

>>606059

Back in the real world only a tiny percentage of people are Holocaust denial conspiracy theorists and it is a fair assumption to make that people that proclaim to doubt the overhwhelming historical evidence are Neo-Nazi ideologues.

Accusing ordinary anons of being 'edgy Zionists' or 'professional Holocaust mourners' or 'JIDF' or even 'Jews' is a foolish position to take.

>>606114
This ain't IRL tho anon. I do have to say that Holocaust denial is one of the most retarded things out there, maybe on par with Flat Earth.

>>606151
You do know that when you start screaming "JIDF" outside of /pol/, people immediately assume that you're a stormfag, right?

>>606300
Why the fuck would I assume that, I don't go to /pol/

>>606321

>doesn't go to pol
>spouts pol buzzwords

>>606333
Are you daft you fucking moron? Do you even have basic comprehension? Fuck off with this faggot shit.

>>606347

He's calling you a liar /pol/tard, not misunderstanding what you wrote.

Maybe you should ask yourself why it is so easy to spot you.

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>>606368
>I do have to say that Holocaust denial is one of the most retarded things out there, maybe on par with Flat Earth.

So you are retarded too I guess. Cool.

>>606377

This is just weird. You are greentexting someone else at pretty much random and the calling me retarded.

Fair enough, I guess, at least you baffled me enough to make me give you one last reply.

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>>606403
You are retarded, yes?

>>606403
Anon. He came out that he was only shitposting. Calm down man.

>>606451
Actually I wasn't even doing that. I pointed out that while IRL Holocaust denial gets you looks, here /pol/fags do it 24/7 because it's a Birmanese Tealeaf Packaging Board. Then they started sperging out. For no fucking reason.

>>601808
You were doing gods work, Adolf

>>606466
Sorry anon, I just assumed you were that other anon further up. My bad.

>burminese
It's Burmese, anon.

Exaggerated for the jews, possibly. Personally I'd say the number of Jewish deaths was somewhere in the low 5 million, but it could be anything between 4 and 6, no more, probably no less.

For everyone else, greatly under-exaggerated. The Germans killed every one, even their own, and reserved the worst for the russians and the slavs.

I currently believe it's like this: The French and east german camps were prisoner camps where jews, undesirables and rebels who were not executed died from sickness. Forced labor may have happened in some camps. PoWs got a special treatment to not further alienate foreigners.

The central and west German were concentration camps where criminals, undesirables, political dissidents and people who got the short end of the stick ended up. Here is allegedly where the most gruesome shit happened. iirc they tried mass execution methods at the highest profile camps, led by pampered scientists and/or sick fucks. Most of these methods where vastly inefficient, like the gas chambers. Many camps where just prison camps where criminals could end up for a series of years and actually be released.

The western front had death camps for the Russians and didn't even have camps for Jews, they had killing grounds. Russians and Poles where deliberately starved to death and the jews where just grouped, executed and buried in mass graves. The killings got so bad even SS members started suffering from PSTD.

Turns out the high from finally getting back at the Hated Enemy doesn't last more than a day and you realize you are killing defenseless human beings.

Like some pointed out in the thread Holocaust is a very technical term and not every death was intentional or made with the idea of extermination in mind. We would need to know the numbers and actual purpose of each camp in order to draw a real estimate, and then add that to the deliberate mass killings in the western front.

>>606300
>JIDF isn't real
>the stormfront bogeyman is though
http://www.thejidf.org/

>>606594

>cant tel the difference between east and west
>knows what's REALLY going on with the holocaust

>>606597
JIDF, which I assume is not the Israeli Army, I have never met. Or know that I met anyway.
Your faggotry on the other hand seeps like bloodpoison from your shitty containment board you dumbass burger-eating fedora-tipping gaylord.

>>606617
whelp, proofread the post twice. nobody's perfect. And I'm not claiming to be an authority on the subject, it's merely an opinion.

>>606636
>merely an opinion.
Opinions are like arseholes. In future keep yours to yourself. We don't want to see your shit on here.

>>606626
>dumbass burger-eating fedora-tipping gaylord.
woah, slow down with those buzzwords, friend, this isn't revleft

>containment board
did Hiro or moot ever explicitly say /pol/ is a containment board? please provide a source, SJWfriend

>>605360
>don't come back to me with evidence
This is what makes arguing with you faggots so infuriating. You guys can pull whatever you want out of your ass and call it proof but nobody else can use any sources against you or else you guys scream and cry about it being biased like a bunch of fucking children

>>606636

>nobody's perfect
>not an authority
>litterally cannot tell the difference between east and west

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"6 million" is a political statement nothing more

Realistically a few million possibly more/less died of starvation, overwork and typhus. But it's nothing worse than what other European powers have ever done (Allied Terror bombing of German/Japanese territory, Soviet Gulags, Armenian genocide, Belgian Congo, British treatment of the Irish, Indians, Boers etc).

Yet it is always used as a tool by SJW's to hammer down "nationalism" and promote mass migration.

>>602887
>that pic
fucking nazis man

thank god the allies kill them before they could keep killing people

>>603076
Yeah but most jews killed were from poland, hungary and the occupied USSR, in the old days of the Russian Empire most of the jewish population was rural, so its not like they had all that money

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>>601808
>it's a /pol/ gets summarily BTFO by people who are actually educated thread
>mfw

>all these deleted posts
based hotpockets

>>603205
>masterbation machine
explain

>>606594
4 million minimum was documented by the nazis themselves.
They took great care to document their work, can't say I blame them, I do the same thing

>>607816
you have to type in the board name you sop

>>/s4s/22222 like this

also shut up if you want to whine about /pol/ you can go there and stop giving them free advertising

>>607860
>you have to type in the board name you sop
goddammit I knew I forgot something, my bad I usually don't cross reference boards

>>606946

>people who are actually educated

tell us when they show up, mkay

I think the 6 million number is obviously something that was debunked a long time ago. They just keep repeating it for the sake of politics

There were no gas chambers capable of killing droves of people nor were there ovens that could cremate the amount of people in the time periods given.

Most of the deaths resulted from a variety of factors both intentional and unintentional, especially towards the end of the war as the Germans began hoarding more supplies for themselves

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>>607687
There are tons of ridiculous testimonies like this, it's not even the pinnacle of ridiculousness.

This kind of stuff is coming from modern day heroes, people who have testified in courts, written books or are cited in Holocaust literature.

I think this was fairly recent, the woman has her own holocaust fan-fiction where she survived several gass chamber and death marches, met Mengele and Ann Frank

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/auschwitz-survivor-gena-turgel-walked-out-gas-chamber-alive-n293496

>>608247
>obviously something that was debunked a long time ago
explain

>>607859
No there isn't..

>>605360
you think 6 million people were killed in Gas chambers?

You should read up on the Einsatzgruppen and Jewish Ghettos, etc

>>608522

The cumulative weight of the testimony more than outwieghs any perceived discrepancies.

>>605847
>I don't think it was something planned,
Let's hear it straight from the horses mouth before the war broke out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AFhwwgL-94

" Today, I will once more be a pro-
phet: If the international Jewish financiers in and
outside Europe should succeed in plunging the na-
tions once more into a world w^ar, then the result will
not be the bolshevization of the earth, and thus the
victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish
race in Europe"
~t. hitler

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>>608544
>the cumulative weight of the testimony more than outwieghs any perceived discrepancies.

Her testimony? No, not really. The woman is a damn liar and there are hundreds like her. The worst thing is these people have testified in court, wrote books, have been cited in holocuast literature, and have held lecture to kids.


This guy for example supplied reports to the Nuremberg trials to be used as evidence.

>>608545
>holocaust was top secret so it was spoken in codewords and no documentation remains
>here is a public parlament speech as evidence of the holocaust

It doesn't work that way. It relies on a deliberate mistranslation of the "Ausrottung" which can be translated as uprooting or defeat.

>>608553

No the cumulative weight of all the testimonies more that outweighs any amount of messing about trying to find individual things to nitpick.

Did you know that for years we were unsure whether the Titanic split in two as it sank because many of the eyewitnesses thought it didn't.

Are you going to start claiming the Titanic did not sink?

Eyewitness testimony is messy, there is no doubt about that, for the Holocaust or anything else. But the enormous overwhleming masses of it, corroborating accounts from every side involved more than proves it along with other evidence as well.

You can circle-jerk about on /pol/ trying to find little bits and pieces that you think are suspect for the next 100 years, it will, never, ever, ever disprove the cumulative weight of the testimonies.

And quite honestly you are bloody idiots to even think that it will.

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>>608569
>No the cumulative weight of all the testimonies more that outweighs any amount of messing about trying to find individual things to nitpick.


No, it doesn't.

You are proven wrong in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE

The man picks apart Hilberg and other writers about Treblinka and Sobibor.

The citations in all the books come from three or four eye-witnesses, this is what the story is mostly based on due to lack of documenation and physical evidence.


>>603160

These people here, they don't have wikipedia pages, they haven't testified in court, and are not primary sources for holocaust literature.


pic related, testimony from the Nuremberg trials

>>608582
>No, it doesn't.
>You are proven wrong in this video

No it does not.

I can give you eight seperate eyewitnesses just looking at easily available internet sources in the English language from a few minutes searching.

You are mad to be listening to these nutters on Youtube in the first place. Just look at what I find in a few minutes while you wanted me to spend 4 hours watching an imbecile.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120517172439/http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/gallery_oi.php?ModuleId=10005193

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/argaschambers.html

>>608609
>I can give you eight seperate eyewitnesses

Just for Treblinka that is.

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>>608609
>open first link
>abraham Bomba

You blew it.

This guy is in some ways less subtle than the mastrubation machines.

Here is his interview from the Shoah movie, just watch it, the man makes up ridicilous stories on the spot and is a very bad liar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkRDQpTg2c

>>608638

Pointless handwaving.

I pointed out the cumulative weight of the testimonies is greater than any discrepancy you could find and explained about eyewitnesses.

You replied there was only 3 or 4 for Treblinka and Sobibior and I found 8 for for Treblinka alone in a couple of minutes, without even being able to go in the masses of evidence that is not in English and easily available on the web from a quick Google search.

Now you are back to trying to claim they are all liars by nitpicking in a pointless circular pattern of argumentation.

>>608649
>You replied there was only 3 or 4 for Treblinka and Sobibior

I never claimed that you just imagined I did. I said 3 or 4 were cited in Hilberg and other literature analyzed in the video.

And I didn't mean 3-4 for both camps, 3-4 for Treblinka alone.

The first three in the stuff you linked is from a man who is an obvious liar for any sane person.

>>608654

There are another three witnesses on that page as well as the three videos from one person that you claim is a liar. And another four on the other page, all for Treblinka alone.

>>605315
>Supply shortages were certainly not uncommon during the war

yeah thats not what i said

i said that people in the concentration camps where starving because of the supply shortages not because of logistical issues i.e lack of supply lines


mabey you should look up the word logistics

>>608663
Read their testiomonies, they're liars. Two people featured on this site claim they were barbers who cut hair for nazi mattresses and pillow stuffings.

It comes from the myth that Nazis cut people's hair for pillows, not because typhus spread trough lice.

>>608700

I do not share your assessment they are liars.

Nor do I share your assessment the haircutting was a myth. It is a proven fact.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_fi.php?ModuleId=10005189&MediaId=238

Have another four witnesses for Treblinka.

https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocTreb.htm

Now we are up to twelve already, just for Treblinka. Some Poles, some Jews, some Germans.

How many more are you going to make baseless claims of lying about?

Have some primary documentary evidece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram

Before you squeak "Wikipedia" the page has the primary source embedded within it.

The Korrher report, more documentary evidence for Treblinka.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/korherr.html

>>602093

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so I'm going to link you a good source that sums up the issue with a complexity I doubt you'll understand (not that you'll read it anyway). I think that's the best that can be done with people like you.

Read Kershaw, Ian, "The Nazi Dictatorship, fourth edition", Bloomsbury, 93-133.

>>606594
>and reserved the worst for the russians and the slavs

Russians were and are jerks, doing many shameful thing but it they are still one of us Slavs

>>608723
>It is a proven fact

No it isn't it's a myth, based on the fact that Jews didn't know why prisoners and guards were shaved.

>As mentioned before, the people leave all their belongings in Camp 1. Everyone is undressed there. The women already naked, are seated on a long bench and their hair is cut off. This is accomplished by about forty “hairdressers.”

It's lies

If you believe this man, and you can't see the body language you are a fucking moron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkRDQpTg2c
It's lies


>http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/korherr.html


This is not documentary evidence for Treblinka it's a statistical report about deporatations, it has nothing to do with Treblika

>>608850
>No it isn't it's a myth, based on the fact that Jews didn't know why prisoners and guards were shaved.

Let us pretend you are right on this. You have literally just said the only evidence you have of the man being a liar is that he was mistaken what the hair was being used for. You have just refuted your own claims to even calling one of the twelve eyewitnesses provided to you as a liar.

The Korrher report is documentary evidence of Jews being deported to Eastern Europe, where they seem to have vanished, something you cannot explain.

The Stroop Report, about the liqiodation of the Warsaw ghetto is documentary evidence that specifically mentions deportations to Treblinka, as does the Hofle Telegram, which you ahve already been provided.

http://pamiec.pl/ftp/ilustracje/Raport_STROOPA.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroop_Report

>>608891

> You have literally just said the only evidence you have of the man being a liar is that he was mistaken what the hair was being used for. You have just refuted your own claims to even calling one of the twelve eyewitnesses provided to you as a liar.

Stop putting words in people's mouth ,this is a typical jewish way to argue. This is twice you have done it now. I'm saying that the Nazis were playing dress up in the gass chambers with fourty barbers and scissors is a lie. They did not cut people's hair in the gass chamber to use it for matricess or whatever , they did it to prevent typhus spreading.

Any claim made by orthodox historians about Treblinka is BTFO by an actual archeological research, conflicting testimonies from the Spielbergs Shoah foundation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b77igZ1InQ


>The Stroop Report, about the liqiodation of the Warsaw ghetto is documentary evidence that specifically mentions deportations to Treblinka

Deportation is not extermination..

>>608901
>putting words in people's mouth ,this is a typical jewish way to argue.

Now let's add "destroying your own credibility by admitting a pre-existing bias." To your list of academic sins.

>>608901

Different guy, and I have nothing useful to add since you're clearly such a desperate denialist, but you're a pretty gross person.

>>608901
>Stop putting words in people's mouth ,this is a typical jewish way to argue. This is twice you have done it now. I'm saying that the Nazis were playing dress up in the gass chambers with fourty barbers and scissors is a lie. They did not cut people's hair in the gass chamber to use it for matricess or whatever , they did it to prevent typhus spreading.

The man is an eyewitness to what he saw not a worker in German factory, if you are saying he was just mistaken in what the hair was used for and then using his mistake to try and claim he is a liar and you can't work out why that is a problem in your reasoning then you are stupid.

And you have done nothing to discredit anyone else, again the ususal if I can make bad and silly attacks on one source all of them are refuted.

You have no achaeological research proving Treblinka is a hoax. You have idiots ranting at length on Youtube about how unsatisfactory they found Sturdy-Coll's report, which did not in any way "debunk" Treblinka.

>>608918
>The man is an eyewitness to what he saw not a worker in German factory, if you are saying he was just mistaken in what the hair was used for and then using his mistake to try and claim he is a liar and you can't work out why that is a problem in your reasoning then you are stupid.

Enough with the jew shit. The man is a liar. You have not watched a single second of his testimony for the Shoah movie

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b77igZ1InQ

It's not that he's wrong about what they used the hair for, it's that he is a liar, his body language tells it, his ridiculous story tells it, he even looks like he's making half the shit up on the spot.

No, the nazis did not disguise the gass chambers as a hair salon wiht 40 barbers.

No, they did not use an old soviet tank engine to kill 900 thousand people

These are all myths, that started off as rumors or propaganda, then got jumped on by opportunists, who wanted to get back at the Nazis, wanted to help get more sympathy for Jews, or just wanted hero status and fame, all perfectly understandable.


Also, no they didn't burry these people just to dig them out and leave no trace of them. Modern archelogical study found jack shit .This never fucking happened
>>608917
Fuck off

>>608939

God, your lunatic ravings get worse with every post kid.

>>608943
But nothing I said was my invention, you can read about this on the links he provided, testimonies of Abraham Bomba or wikipedia even

>As mentioned before, the people leave all their belongings in Camp 1. Everyone is undressed there. The women already naked, are seated on a long bench and their hair is cut off. This is accomplished by about forty “hairdressers.”

>The floors were covered with tin-plated sheet metal, the same material used for the roof. Solid wooden doors were insulated with rubber and bolted from the outside by heavy cross-bars.[70] The victims were gassed with the exhaust fumes from the engine of a Red Army tank captured during Operation Barbarossa;[94]

>>608939
Treblinka archaeological report. You can download the PDF for free.

http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/2160/

>A hamburger is not a sandwish
You've gone too fucking far this time, captcha

>>608939

I care nothing about your assessment of his body language.

Let us recap, for neutral lurkers.....

You claimed there was no documentary evidence for Treblinka and have been provided with the Stroop Report and Hofle Telegram. You have then whined they only refer to deportations with no evidence to back what happened to the deportees and how they mysteriously vanished.

You claimed there are only three or four eyewitnesses to Treblinka and Sobibor in "all literature" and then been provided with 12 just from a quick internet search, in English, to killings, just at Treblinka alone and you have called them all liars by attacking one of them.

You have claimed the Surdy-Colls report proved Treblinka was a hoax when no one except weirdos on Youtube agree with this claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Sturdy_Colls.

Futhermore I bet you will deny the below...

You will deny Hoss' own memoirs about what happened at Auschwitz.

http://ducis.jhfc.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/death-dealer_0056.pdf

You will deny the medical experiments taking place at camps.

https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocMedEx.htm

You will deny Eichmann's confession.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK4nVaFvK10

>>608970
The report is a lie, because you can actually see the excavation, captured on documentary for the Smithsonian channel.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/treblinka-hitlers-killing-machine/0/3403868

They are captured on camera how they dig around in a nearby cemetary to uncover two corpses.

But the fact that they claim they found mass graves is even worse because it shows how dishonest holocaust exterminationists are.

>>608976
wow, way to obfuscate the conversation with several different things never mentioned in this thread.

> You have then whined they only refer to deportations with no evidence to back what happened to the deportees and how they mysteriously vanished.

There are documents of deporations which is proven by many other documents that this were Nazis plans. There are hundreds of tons of Nazi documents taken by the Americans and the soviets, maybe they are missing. The point is that you only provide documetns which mention deportations which was the public Nazi goal and not extermination,

>You have claimed the Surdy-Colls report proved Treblinka was a hoax when no one except weirdos on Youtube agree with this claim.

Anyone who has eyes agrees with this claim because it's captured on camera in her documentary. She found zero mass graves, it does not matter what it says on wikipedia. And it's not only the mass graves, she has been called out on other obfuscation and lies as well, like the tiles she claimed were stars of david

http://newobserveronline.com/smithsonian-red-faced-after-treblinka-star-of-david-tiles-shown-to-be-not-jewish-at-all/


>You will deny Hoss' own memoirs about what happened at Auschwitz.


And here we go, million things I didn't claim or mention for the third time putting words in my mouh.

Hoess was tortured in prison btw, and confesssed to killing 3 million in Aushwitz which is physically impossible and even the Aushwitz museum denies that number

>>608553
I think he means that the Holocaust definitely happened so we can ignore the lunacy of some of these people who claim to have survived the gas chambers and went through the masturbation machines

>>609013
> think he means that the Holocaust definitely happened

I don't agree, especially since a lot of these people are considered important witnesses with their own wikipedia pages, books , court apperances and even educational presentations.

File: Show me the bodies.jpg (168KB, 800x607px) Image search: [Google]

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>>608999

Your article does not even remotely claim the entire study to have proven Treblinka is a hoax, if you can't grasp that logically one thing being incorrect to "everything has therefore been proven to be hoax" then you are an imbecile.

Everyone can read the thread, everyone can see I have accurately portrayed our conversation.

You will deny what this letter from Patton to Eisenhower says...

https://eisenhower.archives.gov/research/online_documents/holocaust/1945_04_15_Patton_to_DDE.pdf

You will deny Heinrich Himmler speaking about exterminating the Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a_cmbi3iIg

You will deny the testimony of Oskar Groening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVfFHJE0e1g

You think you can caper round providing ludicrous reasons why everything in wrong and calling everthing fake and all the witnesses liars.

Well this is not /pol/. This. Is. /his/ you stupid mother fucker.

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>>609039
i admire your patience and applaud your efforts

>>609039
You are just throwing all the shit you can find and see what sticks while we were discussing a single camp, and continuously put words in my mouth

>You will deny what this letter from Patton to Eisenhower says...

Patton or Eisenhower never saw any death camps you idiot, they were ALLEGEDLY all liberated by the soviets. Patton is talking about the deplorable conditions in the western camps and all the people dead from typhus. Everyone fucking knows this
> Show me the bodies

Those are typhus victims

>You will deny the testimony of Oskar Groening

>ater, he witnessed the burning of bodies: "This comrade said, 'Come with me, I'll show you.' I was so shocked that I stood at a distance. The fire was flickering up and the kapo [a prisoner in charge of work details] there told me afterwards details of the burning. And it was terribly disgusting - horrendous. He made fun of the fact that when the bodies started burning they obviously developed gases from the lungs and these bodies seemed to jump up, and the sex parts of the men suddenly became erect in a way that he found laughable."

Yes I will.

>You will deny Heinrich Himmler speaking about exterminating the Jews.

Yes I will another deliberate mistranslation

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Posen_speeches

Though I will give you, out of several hundred tons of documents and evidence, the Posen speech makes the most convincing argument. Which is pretty pathetic to be honest, as it's a few mistranslated senteces out of 3 hour unrelated speech

>Well this is not /pol/. This. Is. /his/ you stupid mother fucker.

I think most people on would /pol/ know the bodies in the images are typhus victims and neither Patton nor Eisenhower came close to a death camp

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>>609078

I don't even care about your ridiculous handwaving anymore. The deaths in the camps Patton saw were also part of the Holocaust.

You will deny these years of attempts to gather details about as many victims as possible and claim they don't exist.

http://db.yadvashem.org/names/search.html?language=en

You will deny what it says in Goebbel's diary.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goebbels-joseph/goebbels-1948-excerpts-01.html

You will call this German engineer a liar.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-engineer.htm

>>609096
>The deaths in the camps Patton saw were also part of the Holocaust.
Death in camps =/= death camps.

Not a stormfag, not a denier, but this always irks me. The Americans didn't liberate any death camps, only concentration camps, because all the death camps were located in Eastern Europe and were liberated by the Soviets.

>>609096
This is exactly If I copy paste random passages of stuff just to obfuscate the conversation. This isn't any different than random infographics
which are deemed ban worthy. You are just trashing the thread and muddying the conversation.

>show me
Again the stuff in your image is typhus victims.

Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows: [5]

Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them ...

Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced.

Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases." [6]

>>609109
>Death in camps =/= death camps.
>Not a stormfag, not a denier, but this always irks me. The Americans didn't liberate any death camps, only concentration camps, because all the death camps were located in Eastern Europe and were liberated by the Soviets.

I understand what you are saying, friend, but not all of the Holocaust took place in the camps, plenty of deaths happened elsewhere.

>>609119

>This is exactly If I copy paste random passages of stuff just to obfuscate the conversation.

No.

It is clunking you over the head with all of the masses of primary evidence you don't care about.

But I do. Why, you may ask? Because this. is. /his/

You will deny the correspondence about gassing vans.

https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocGasVn.htm

You will deny the primary evidence in this documentary.

https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Nuremberg-Trial-Film-Nazi-Concentration-Camps

You will deny the Jager report specifically detailing the genocidal activities of the Einsatzgruppe.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110724012630/http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/jagerimages.html

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocJager.htm

>>609096
>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goebbels-joseph/goebbels-1948-excerpts-01.html

Like all the evidence of the Holocaust, he takes sentences out of context.There is no doubt Goebbles hated jews and was unheathily obssessed with them,but nothing in his diary suggests plans for extermination.

This is the most incriminating passage

>Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being evacuated (abgeschoben) eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated (liquidiert) whereas only about 40 percent can be used for forced labor\.

But he's still talking about evacuation, Nikzor ommited the first sentence about Lublin and the entire point of the passage.Goebbles is talking about an isolated case.

Here's what's in his diary two weeks before

>Mar 7, 1942 (II.3.431-432) **
I read a detailed report from the SD and police regarding a final solution of the Jewish Question. Any final solution involves a tremendous number of new viewpoints. The Jewish Question must be solved within a pan-European frame. There are 11 million Jews still in Europe. They will have to be concentrated later, to begin with, in the East; possibly an island, such as Madagascar, can be assigned to them after the war. In any case there can be no peace in Europe until the last Jews are shut off from (ausgeschaltet) the continent.

>>609169

You do understand what liquidated means?

You will call Jan Karski a liar.

http://www.jankarski.net/en/about-jan-karski/jan-karski-life.html

You will claim that the experiments on hypothermia are fake, despite scientists arguing to this day about the data.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2044.2004.04034.x/full

You will call these Germans liars.

https://sfi.usc.edu/news/2015/10/10140-what-story-two-sonderkommando-interviews-usc-shoah-foundation-archive

>>609182
>You will call these Germans liars.

>sonderkommando

"Sonderkommando" were jewish.. At least pretend you know what you're talking about instead of throwing random shit you find on random sites

>You do understand what liquidated means

I know what it means but Goebbles diary is constantly talking about deportation, even in the most incriminating paragraph he talks about the forced deportation.

>>601817
The under Exaggerated Killings was the genocide going on in Russia. During the war the Gulags killed more than the Nazis could ever dream of killing

>>601808
Do you guys believe in the Jewish conspiracy. After all the Jews are in control of USA and the rest of the western civilization

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>>609204

Are you going to provide evidence of where all these deported Jews ended up after the war?

No?

I didn't think so?

In 1946 the British government set up an inquiry with the specific intent of discrediting Jewish immigration to Palestine and downplaying the Holocaust. It was headed by centre-right, non-Jewish, senior judges, civil servants and diplomats from America and the UK.

Its reluctant findings estimated the number of Jewish victims from the Holocaust at 5.7 million...

Germany - 195,000
Austria - 53,000
Czechoslovakia - 255,000
Denmark - 1,500
France - 140,000
Belgium - 57,000
Luxemburg - 3,000
Norway - 1,000
Holland - 120,000
Italy - 20,000
Yugoslavia - 64,000
Greece - 64,000
Bulgaria - 5,000
Romania - 530,000
Hungary - 200,000
Poland - 3,271,000
USSR - 1,050,000

Total Number Jews Killed - 5,721,500
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/angcov.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_Committee_of_Inquiry ….. to make clear to shitposters the Wikipedia source is to show the background to the inquiry, not because this source is only from Wikipedia.


These figures were ENTIRELY from population statistics.

Playing games with your understanding of the numbers that could be killed in gas chambers doesn't qualify as criticism (it isn’t based on that).

Claiming it is a Jewish source doesn't qualify as criticism (because it isn't).

Fucking around with photos doesn't qualify as criticism.

Playing games with numbers killed in individual death camps doesn't qualify as criticism (it isn't based on that).

Claiming the tens of thousands of eyewitnesses from survivors, Germans and non-Germans, are false based on nit-picking their accounts or claiming torture was involved doesn't count as criticism (it is not based on eyewitness accounts).

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>>609242
You are not interested in discussing anything, you're just bombarding the thread with random shit you barely understand and pasta, it's the /pol/ equivalent of infographics.

You keep posting typhus victims and even thought that Sunderkommandos were German. You don't have basic understanding of the holocaust or any actual will to present some interesting evidence, your only purpose was to shit up and obfuscate the thread with random links as fast as possible. Literally the same as /pol/ infographics, only they take up only one thumbnail space instead of the entire screen

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>>609269
>You are not interested in discussing anything
ha hahaaa

>>609269

Yes. I wrote that and have it saved, because I can't be bothered to type it out every time.

You have no interest in the primary evidence rather than make lame attempts to handwave it away. Just like you have just done again.

You must be off playing on a cloud plaxing with pixies and fairies if you think these sources are equivalent to /pol/'s infographics and zany Youtube clips of twelve year olds talking through voice synthesizers.

I did try and have a sensible conversation with you earlier in the thread and you started talking gibberish.

>Approximately 4 million Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2 million met death in other ways, the major part of which were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia."

Wilhelm Hoettl, testifying about what Eichmann had told him.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/12-14-45.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_H%C3%B6ttl

>>609357
>Using wikipedia as a primary source

>>609304
You clearly aren't

>>601808
What is this "Holocaust" you're talking about? I've never heard of it. Sound like a made-up storie

>>609380

>not looking at the source above it
>cheaply trying to greentext evidence away with shitposting

>>609404
>any post I do not personally approve of is shitposting

>>>/trash/
>>>/pol/
sage

>>609452

Really? There is a primary source here >>609357

So trying to "greentext" it away by referring to Wikipedia is by definition shitposting.

Jeez. I wonder why I try and have a sensible conversation with you guys sometimes.

You have about as much interest in serious discussion of evidence as a monkey does in Astrophysics.

>>609143
You are just throwing a bunch of random links you are finding on google. It's like you have the mentality that a bunch of shitty links will prove you right.
quality > quantity

>>609487
4/10 you have potential

>>609478
see
>>609487

>>609504
>says the holocaust mourner

>>609487

They are not random in any sense of the word.

They are pieces of primary evidence that I have collected links to, mainly from a couple of years ago when I tried to talk sense to Stromfront.

You know, I am sorry these threads on /pol/ don't consist of sharing Youtube clips of mentally ill people while shouting "shill" and "Jew" at anything you don't like.

Every single one is from a decent source.

>>609515
Riggedy-riggedy-REKT SON!

File: mattogno-carlo-and-graf-j-rgen-treblinka.-extermination-camp-or-transit-camp-treblinka.-extermination-camp-or-transit-camp--682-p[ekm]385x577[ekm][1].jpg (59KB, 385x577px) Image search: [Google]

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>>609515
You don't know what any of these links that you are spamming mean though, you thought sunderkommandos were German.

You're just copy pasting something you found on a website without really discussing anything.

>Youtube clips of mentally ill people while shouting "shill" and "Jew"

I posted a clip once, and it wasn't like that at all. You honestly think there's no scientific or respectable revisionist literature? But you don't really care about honest discussion, you keep misinterpreting and lying about very short videos.

>>610999
Question: Why are you so hooked on Treblinka. Even if everything that you're saying is true (protip: It's not) what does that change?

>Youtube clips of mentally ill people while shouting "shill" and "Jew"

You're taking his words out of context, thus changing their meaning. Why are you now, by your own definition, arguing like a jew?

Nope. Its actually twice as bad as people usually say. 12 million died, people tend to only care about the 6 million jews.

>>610999
"The Southern Poverty Law Center has listed the Barnes Review as a hate group for its white nationalist and Holocaust denial activities, and describes it as "one of the most virulent anti-Semitic organizations around".[4]"