Could the United States have won the Vietnam War if it had remained

Lack of public approval wasn't the reason they lost the war. They lost the war because there weren't any hard objectives, and because it was an unconventional war that they didn't know how to fight.

>>557758

This

>>557758
What would have been the best way to win the war?

>>557767
Sustained bombing of the North and its cities instead of blowing up 30 square kilometers of jungle, a dirt trail and a water buffalo.

>>557767
Again, it just really isn't a war that is so easily "won". They could have bombed the Viet-Cong into submission, but of course in doing that they'd kill just as many, if not more civillians, so that could hardly be counted as a victory, at least in modern times.

The way they could have won the conflict in Vietnam would to have been to listen to Patton and flatten Russia immediately after WW2.

But since that didn't happen obviously they had to make do with what they had.

>>557767

Come up with some way to make the South Vietnamese government actually effective so they won

>>557784
won't be vulnerable to that kind of insurgency*

>>557767

continue the phoenix program

>>557754
>Could the United States have won the Vietnam War
no

"won"

Easilly, but you dont pull infinite morale out of your ass. Soviet psyopps were hard at work lowering civilian morale, making it a linear communist victory.

honestly why would anyone even want to change the outcome? Vietnam turned out pretty fucking good and if history is anything to go by it'd have just been shit under the US

>>557849
>executed hundreds of thousands of civliams upon entering saigon
>citizens to this day dissapear for criticing the government

>>557767
by not playing.

>>557854
and yet the country is doing just fine, seems we could learn a lot from them

ITT: Pop history

The Vietnam War had a clear insurgency phase and a clear conventional phase.

The US won both.

From 1964 to 1969, the Viet Cong was destroyed to the point where they could no longer have any say over the future of Vietnam. In between Tet, the Pheonix Program, and constant, grinding engagements against a superior enemy, they were simply eliminated.

Once the Viet Cong ceased to exist, the North began to simply send NVA down South to fight.

The problem was, the NVA was a conventional military force, with conventional logistics needs.

The US destroyed North Vietnam's industrial capacity, and destroyed their ability to receive aid from the USSR and PRC.

After Linebacker 2, the North simply had nothing capable of harming the South. Hence why they went to the bargaining table and signed the Paris Peace Accords.

The reason there aren't two Vietnams is 100% American and 0% Vietnamese. In 1974, the authority of the Nixon administration disintegrated under the weight of the Watergate Scandal. This led to Democrats controlling congress, which mean that the US went back on all the guarantees it had made to the South.

The US had agreed to replace lost or destroyed military equipment on a one to one basis. The Democrats reneged on this promise. Nixon had privately agreed to begin another bombing campaign, like the one that had crippled the North, if the North began another offensive. The Democrat controlled congress refused to allow the US to use air power.

The South Vietnamese military had actually become a fairly professional, effective force, but it was utterly dependent on US supplies and air power, and nobody could have predicted that the Nixon administration, which had won the most one-sided electoral victory in US history in 1972, would implode a mere two years later.

>>557767
>What would have been the best way to win the war?
To be the Northern faction Giap-war-line anti-development line VWP.

>>557859
>the us
>learning from one of its trade partners
The president could smear shit on a wall an it would be copied as a fundamental aspect of managing a keynesin economy, and it happens all the time.

>>557863
>The US won both.
Bullshit.

NFL had mainline forces prior to Tet-1.
PRG did not suffer a reduced area of control or scope of control due to US intervention.
1972 failed logistically due to air bombardment but advanced the PRG's scope of control
1975 succeeded

Fuck off dolchstoßlegende.

>>557784
>>557786
Ðiem, their best bet, was failing. Their compradors after Ðiem failed. The "King" would have failed. There is no way to reform the RVN state.

Replacing it with the US Army and losing 10,000 men a year until there was no economy sometime around 1987 is the only realistic way to stabilise a state in RVN.

>>557863
ITP: Conservative revisionism.

>>557849
>Vietnam turned out pretty fucking good
Doi moi was good? Let's ask the child prostitutes of Hanoi?

File: Vietnam War.png (47KB, 336x902px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 336x902px

>>557863
>After Linebacker 2, the North simply had nothing capable of harming the South.
Then why did the south utterly collapse in the face of an NVA offensive as soon as the Americans left? Notice in the image that when South Vietnamese losses are taken into account, muh ebin kill ratio isn't even that impressive for our side. In the end, the fact that American forces themselves kicked a lot of ass simply wasn't enough to accomplish our goals.

I think that if American pride didn't stop Americans from insisting that Vietnam was a victory, if we would simply accept that there were serious mistakes made that resulted in a defeat, then perhaps we would have more success with our later occupation campaigns against guerrilla forces instead of making the same mistakes over and over.

>>557932
It was called the NLF (National Liberation Front) or FLN if you speak French, not NFL. NFL is a handegg league in America lol.

>>557849
Compare Vietnam to Taiwan, then think again about what you just wrote.

>>557754
The US Couldve won the Vietnam War if it invaded the North and Soviets & Chinese threat bluff is called out.

The first part of my statement is likely. The latter isn't. Soviet airforces flew for Korea and Chinks fought in Korea with nothing but a shitty infantry army. Who knew what sort of support they could give NVA.
>>557863
>The South Vietnamese military had actually become a fairly professional, effective force,
>After Linebacker 2, the North simply had nothing capable of harming the South. Hence why they went to the bargaining table and signed the Paris Peace Accords.
Funny how there was a big North Vietnamese army that rolled into Saigon.

>>557849
You do know Vietnam is Mini-PRC right?

>>557863
Nixon should've just ignored the congress and go with it. It's not like he wasn't an absolute madman enough to do it.

>>559002
> implying the two are comparable

>>559028
>if history is anything to go by it'd have just been shit under the US

You were the one to start making comparisons.

>>559037
I'm not that guy, I just got here, so no.

But if you're going to be comparing Vietnam to anyone, at least pretend not to be a complete retard by comparing it with a country that has a considerably different language, climate, religion and history.

Comparing two countries is an impossible endeavour that is really only ever done by people with some sort of agenda in mind, desu, but if you are going to do so, Vietnam can only really be compared to Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodja, Burma or Laos.

You know, countries with somewhat similar religion, climate and history

And even then, you'd have to factor for so many things that the exercise becomes meaningless.

For instance, Thailand or Malaysia didn't fight a decade long war with the world's foremost superpower, and weren't susequently economically shunned by the global community afterwards

>>557767

By entering in 1954 and stopping the first ceasefire.

>>558997
It is called NFL if you speak English.

It is called NLF if you're a sep cunt.

>>559070
It's not called the NFL anywhere, not in English, not in French and sure as fuck not in Vietnamese.

>>557932
>>559070

fifel pls go

>>557767
You don't "win" a war of attrition. The only way is to occupy the country long enough to crush the spirits of any dissenters to your reign. Taking Vietnam as the 51st United State of America would've brought in even higher casualties, plus the locals would (whatever the Vietnamese word for "Alla-hu Ackbar" it forever).