How do holocaust believers explain the rapid changing death

The total number of victims is controversial, beginning with the research of Judge Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz dating back to 1948, who gave the figure of 360,000 victims.

>>466760
I am trying not to make it into a picture dump side like holocaust threads normally turn into (that might be the reason why some of these threads get removed people just spam the same pictures without adding anything new) I just want to know more about the Majdanek death tolls and the story about how many of these gas chambers that are no longer claimed to be a gas chamber anymore

>>466813
7.Submitting false or misclassified reports, or otherwise abusing the reporting system may result in a ban. Replying to a thread stating that you've reported or "saged" it, or another post, is also not allowed

>>466734
Fagermans fucked up with their "oh we r suprior lollllll attakworld" and they cant vhange the picture of them not even by fucking up europe by their refugees welkommen bullshit

fagermany is just the cancer of europe doesnt matter what naziboos vomit into every board

The numbers really don't matter. We all joke about muh six gorillion but in point of fact Holocaust propaganda has more or less reached the end of its usefulness. Israel doesn't need to guilt trip European countries today to get what it wants. And whether it was 6 million or 600 thousand, the Jews are going to retain their claim in Palestine. It'd not like 6 million dead entitles them to x amount of Palestinian land, but 3 million dead only entitles them to 1/2 x amount.

>>466865
The problem is that Israel got money for 6 million deaths and if it was only 600k deaths they need to pay the money for the 5,4 million back

>>466734
I doubt that one camp could hold 1/3 of those who were killed, someone made an error here

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The greater proportion of the victims of Majdanek were not Jews but Polish political prisoners and Soviet prisoners of war

The current estimate for Jews who perished at Majdanek ranges from 80,000 in the camp proper to 160,000, including the subcamps

>War crime denial
When will they fucking grow up?

This is the first time I've heard about this, and I never go on /pol/. What's going on here?

>>467005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R6mTTrOlzE gives a good idea of what i am talking about and It should be noted that Jürgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno are not national socialists at all or even far right. Even watching the first 20 min of that video gives a good idea what i am talking about. But what is going on is what i said in the OP and the pic in the OP. 1,5 million was the claim in Nuremburg and that number dropped to 78000 today. But really watch the video and read the book i posted because a movie says more than i can make in a 4chan post

>>467000
You mean those evil holocaust deniers that dropped the number from 2 million to 78000?

>>466734
> Holocaust believers
Fuck your crappy buzzwords
I'm tired of this site. /pol/, /pol/ everywhere. There is not a single fucking board free of this bullshit. Fuck you all.

>>467053
>mattogno
>on the advisory council for the IHR
>not a natsoc

Kek

>>467178
He was a former member and IHR is not for natsocs only. Mark Weber is not a national socialist for what i know. CODOH and Bradley Smith is also not a National Socialist

>>467202
Also should be noted that even holocaust historicans (the ones that believe in the standard view) praised Mattogno

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Mattogno

Mainstream holocaust historians have regarded Mattogno's work as valuable. The Institut für Zeitgeschichte (Institute of Contemporary History) in Munich quotes his 2005 book (updated 2015) on the Central Construction Office at Auschwitz, 'The Central Construction Office of the Waffen-SS and Police Auschwitz—Organization, Responsibilities, Activities'.,[8] whilst historian Ernst Nolte was impressed by Mattogno's work, due to which he conceded that, with respect to "their mastery of the source material and especially in their critique of the sources," the revisionist studies on the topic "probably surpass those of the established historians in Germany".[9] Jean-Claude Pressac, who invited Mattogno into his home and regarded him as a scholar,[10] has stated of Mattogo that he is "the best revisionist researcher".[11]

>>467156
Thats wrong /z/ is 100% free from /pol/ bullshit.......

>>466891

Did you read this bullshit from David Irving or Paul Rassinier? Or was it Austin App?

The $735 million paid to Israel by West Germany was for resettlement of survivors, not as compensation for the dead.

And to borrow a great point from Lipstadt: if the state of Israel wanted actually maximize the amount of reparations, they would have argued that millions of Jews weren't killed by the Nazis but fled to Israel instead.

>>467349
If you read what the holocaust revisionists say they do say that some of the deaths is because a person traveled to USA or some other country doing the war count as a person died in the holocaust

>>467377

It was resettlement to Israel, no where else. This was well documented in the Irving-Lipstadt trial. One of the main points Evans focused on was Irving's ties to anti-semitic groups and his anti-semetic statements. The "reparations argument" I quoted was one of the points he took him to task on.

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>>466734

>Nuremberg

I've got the entire Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression set. I refer to it quite often. The 1.5 million figure attributed to Nuremberg is found in Volume 7, page 773 and it's simply an inclusion of the Communique of the Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission.

>The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians, 'andla vast num- her of Jews.

Pic related. It's my citation for the above. Give me a moment, I'm about to address most of the figures to explain this revisionist bullshit.

>>467390
Can you also answer the Majdanek question in the OP?

>>467451
Would be nice i wanna hear some counter arguments myself since i am neutral on the holocaust and want to hear both sides fairly. The problem is that axishistory and CODOH forums are very biased and the only place where you can get a mostly fair debate is RODOH

>>467458

I'm working on it, please be patient. I have to pull my citations out so that I'm not just spewing unsubstantiated bullshit.

>>466734

Ok, so going back to the original estimates from the Soviets. The Soviets didn't have the luxury of things like the Hofle Telegram (2000) or time to truly research the number of deaths. Their initial reports were calculated in the same manner they calculated initial Auschwitz deaths: crematoria capacity. They essentially took the dates of the camps and multiplied them by the maximum capacity of the crematoria.

360,000 was originally published in 1948 by a Polish Judge that conducted his own personal research into the camp. He, in the same vein, concluded that, at a maximum, the crematoria could only have possibly killed 360,000.

235,000 came from Dr. Rajca who essentially based his number on the work of others. He did no real investigation but this is immaterial because

78,000...where did that come from? Ah, the aforementioned Hofle Telegram, which was declassified from the British government in 2000. This telegram gave the detailed statistics of the Reinhard camps up to the very end of 1942. This, coupled with the discovery of death records, testimonies from trials of SS men connected to the camp up to the 1980s, and survivor testimonies gave it's author, Thomas Kranz, a better perspective than on any researcher(s) prior.

See, the thing about holohaux fuckboys is that once they see something entered into the public record, they cling to it like it is infallible. With the fall of the Soviet Union and more and more documents being declassified, we get a better idea because, get this shit, we have more evidence at our disposal to truly get a grasp on what happened.

>>467595
Nice to see a revisionist here in this thread as well coming also with some good arguments

>>467644

I'm not a revisionist; I'm a firm believer in the Holocaust, because it actually happened.

I am explaining the exaggerated numbers over the years.

Is Nik Wachmann a revisionist because he included the work of Thomas Kranz, the fucking director of the Research Department of the State Museum at Majdanek, in "kl"? Because Kranz's research led to the 78,000 figure.

>>467660
I read the book called debating the holocaust a new look on both sides and the owner questions Things but believes the holocaust happened. Personally i think that the zyklon b killings are most of the holocaust and if stuff like The Rudolf Report are true then it ruins much of the holocaust story. But there was also stuff like Warsaw that was a part of the holocaust story and revisionists dont deny that

>tfw the last Holocaust survivors will die in your lifetime
>tfw people who lived through World War II will die in your lifetime

I can't wait desu

>>467691

>implying the Jews won't concoct anudda shoah just in time to replace the last one

>>467682

The Rudolf Report, like the Leuchter Report, has been debunked by an actual chemist with a PhD, Richard Green.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/blue.html

As for "Debating the Holocaust", the author, Thomas Dalton, doesn't exist. You should read into the vast amount of bullshit actually behind that book.

>>467716
You mean the shoah against the Palestinians :^

>>467061
And those who says Nanking never happened and switched to lowering the number after failing.
t. chink who just wasted a day debating nanking deniers and wondering if there's any holocaust-denying Israeli

>>466734

Because we are aware of the fact that history is not set in stone and new evidence and information are discovered that change things, sometimes massively.

If it was all faked, why would they bother to change anything at all?

people died. they say a more accurate number of jewish deaths is 300k-1.6million, the rest were non-jewish prisoners (many soviet sympathizers) and force laborers.

It is very sickening. How people could use the holocaust and not respect its sacredness. Completely changing the story. And gov'ts exploit it differently for their own selfishness. Nobody wants to know or even feel what its like to be taken away to fulfill mandatory labor obligations only to be put in the worst and dirtiest of settings. Bad predicament. That was a death sentence from the start. Then again no country would want to worry about not being able to do so under worst case scenario.

>>467728
>The Rudolf Report, like the Leuchter Report, has been debunked by an actual chemist with a PhD, Richard Green.
>Richard Green
>Green
Surely no conflict of interest.

>>469218

Feel free to dispute his findings; they're available on the linked webpage.

>>467257
>talking about /z/
>after its death
Just let it RIP

>>469218
>>469262
http://vho.org/GB/c/GR/Green.html
Germar Rudolf did it but you can make up your own opinion

>>469441
Let me hear yours. Please.

>>470652
First off i fully understand why people are using pen names when people can lose their job and their life and sometimes even more than that (the Jewish Defence League wanted David Cole dead to name one and there was some other holocaust revisionist that died of a bombing but i forgot the name on that)

Second holocaust revisionism/denial are not hate speech unless you make some /pol/ shit in it like words like kikes and such. This thread did not use any insults and i think everyone in this thread can agree that there is no hate speech in this thread

»I am not embarrassed to call Holocaust-denial hate speech. That is what it is. People who are smart enough to obfuscate using pseudoscientific arguments are also smart enough to know what they are doing: propagating a lie. Although some people may be attracted to Holocaust denial because of gullibility and/or mental illness, these people are not the same people who write these clever but mendacious pseudoscientific reports. The people who write these reports are motivated by a desire to rehabilitate Nazism, an ideology of hate. Hate-speech is what it is, and in calling it that I am merely exercising my right of free speech.«

I believe the above quote arguement is wrong because of that

Thirdly most of the modern holocaust revisionists are not national socialists and while 99% of all national socialists are holocaustskeptics they dont make any revisionist stuff the ones that do make the revisionist stuff like books and movies are not national socialists or support that view. Even then if a natsoc say 2+2 is 4 and the Democrat says it is 5 then the natsoc is right so it is meaningless IMO. And jews have just as much a conflict of intrest as natsocs got

I might write more after a while

>>471098

Name changes are one thing. Claiming a fictitious PhD, as Michael Santomauro did with "Thomas Dalton" in "Debating the Holocaust" is a completely different thing.

It's gotten completely fucking ridiculous now. From discrediting testimonies of those involved (who wrote them after being either exonerated or condemned to death) to nitpicking minutia in the photographic record of the means of introducing Zyklon B into the gas chambers. It's just completely fucking ridiculous how they spew this bullshit and holohaux fuckboys cling to it because they cite and misrepresent and mistranslate and mislead (which has been proven OVER AND FUCKING OVER again).

The Holocaust happened, people were gassed to death at the Reinhard camps.

Fucking deal with it.

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Anon, it says here that you spend your time trying arguing about the "holohoax" on a Chinese anime image board. Care to explain any of this?

>>471149

>implying arguing with idiots about history isn't the best way to test your knowledge of history

>>471136
Can you prove that it is a fictitious PhD? Pen names as i explained above kinda make sense in this case

>People were gassed to death at the Reinhard camps.
You talking about the 3 transit camps? Treblinka 2 was a transit camp where they were sent east most of them to Majdanek. There exist no proof for the 800k gassed in Treblinka 2 at all. Treblinka 1 was a small labour camp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47rbRNSGQUs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN4P-YGRbOs
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=28
http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Graf97-101.html

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remember when this board wasn't infested by /pol/? NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOUR STUPID FUCKING CONSPIRACY THEORIES, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>>/out/

>>471224

Yes, there is no Thomas Dalton with verifiable a PhD that has any ties to that book.

Also Treblinka was disguised as a transit camp (the whole fake train station) but it was definitely an extermination camp.

There is no proof that 800k were gassed? Well there is proof that 713,000 were killed between July and December of 1942 (Hofle Telegram) - but of course, that's fake, right?

There is also the testimony of Franz Stangl (present during a majority of these killings). You also have Hoess touring Treblinka, commenting how inefficient the use of carbon monoxide.

Hoess and Globocnik actually had a pissing contest over who's camp killed the most throughout the war.

But those testimonies were all conducted under torture, right? Even though Hoess wrote his memoirs after his death sentence (with no reason to lie) and Stangl never recanted his testimony despite already being imprisoned for life.

Go back to /pol/ with this bullshit.

>>471297
>Hoess
Isn't he the same guy that testified that he killed 3 million people at Auschwitz and visited camps before they were open and camps that never existed? Why is his forced confession considered valid?

>>471418

He never said that. He claimed higher numbers on the reports of Eichmann. He himself said they purposely destroyed death records routinely.

You can use his confession or his memoirs. His memoirs were written at the suggestion of an American while he was awaiting his execution.

Remember, as I have already stated, he had a real dick waving contest with Globocnick. He was proud of the number of people killed under his command. It's not a stretch to imagine he would have embellished numbers even after his arrest. He knew he was going to die.

But yes, show me how his confession or memoirs were penned under duress or torture. Since that is what you're alluding to when discrediting them. Please. Show me.

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>>472322
Ok, so I figure if I use anything other than a mainstream source you'll cry foul, so here's from Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_H%C3%B6ss#Capture.2C_trial.2C_and_execution

>He never said that.
"I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total of about 3,000,000 dead. "
>3,000,000
Just like I said.

>Please. Show me.
"But when Alexander threatened to cut his finger off, Höss removed the ring. It had the names Rudolf and Hedwig inscribed inside.[27] After being questioned and beaten with axe handles by the soldiers, Höss confessed his real identity.[27][30]"

>threatened to cut his finger off
>After being questioned and beaten with axe handles by the soldiers

But I bet they were proper gentlemen after they ascertained his identity and treated him with kid gloves thereafter. I'm quite sure.

Once again, I'm just using a quick wiki search.

>>471287
In the first 24 hours, the mods nuked three pages worth of /pol/ threads. If anything, we have been as successful as /k/ in beating them back.

>>471287
No

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>>473250
>as successful as /k/ in beating them back.
Nah, /pol/tards are just more subtle on /k/, they're still there. The only differences between /k/ and /pol/ is that on /k/ the tripfags are (usually)helpful, threads are mostly on-topic and you(mostly) can't mention the Jew. Other than that the user base isn't too different.

>>473289
Kinda make sense that most gun owners are right wing and with stuff like sandy hoax i guess even more /k/ommandos went to /pol/

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>>473289

>>473235

You said he "visited camps before they were open and camps that never existed". He never said that.

As for the 3 million, I told you that he based those figures of what Eichmann told him, this was brought up during and after Nuremberg.

Holy fuck how dense are you?

Hans and Rudolf, great book. They also threatened his wife to deport their son to Russia (which was a last ditch effort after interrogations failed to give up his whereabouts and it was an empty threat - the interrogators didn't have the power to do that).

That still doesn't change the fact that he wrote his memoirs after being sentenced to death.

And it still doesn't change the fact that there is a fucking MASSIVE AMOUNT of official Nazi documents that prove the mass extermination of Jews, asocials, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and POWs occurred. At this point, the revisionists are left to grasp at straws: like the design of Bunker 1/the "Little Red House" and whether Zyklon could be introduced.

kl by Nik Wachmann is free on Google books - every Nazi order he writes about is cited. Please, read. You'll stop looking like a fucking idiot.

>>473235

I can't believe I have to spell this out for retards.

>DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
>HOESS: Yes, that is correct.
>DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore correct that exclusively one man by the name of Eichmann had notes about this, the man who had the task of organizing and assembling these people?
>HOESS: Yes.
>DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
>HOESS: Yes.

So, Hoess wasn't allowed to take notes, death records, as I have already discussed, were routinely purged, and Hoess was going off a number the man orchestrating most of this shit for Himmler.

But yes, he was called to be a witness against Kaltenbrunner and said nothing damning about the man. So he was forced and tortured all those other times except for when the allies needed him to help add on to Kaltenbrunner.

He denied hearing of the Allies' claim that Kaltenbrunner gave an order to destroy Dachau and two satellite camps, he testified that it was not uncommon for subordinates to to sign orders on behalf of their superiors, etc.

Fuck I hate this board and all this /pol/ shit.

>>474190
Oh man, never seen this cartoon before, is this new?! I've definitely never seen this cartoon, penned by a guy who got run out of /k/ because he couldn't deal with all the spergy Slavaboos. Hot off the presses isn't it?

>>476362
>You said he "visited camps before they were open and camps that never existed". He never said that.

I've read that before, I'm honestly not invested enough in this to go digging for something that you'll just dismiss because of the source. I was 100% correct on the other things however, go back and read what you wrote.

>That still doesn't change the fact that he wrote his memoirs after being sentenced to death.

So, your claim is that even though they threatened his family members with deportation to a hostile nation(which apparently they couldn't do, but how does Höss know that?) he probably told the truth because he was already sentenced to death. I bet he wasn't concerned at all for his families safety, I bet he trusted the men who had been torturing and beating him to take good care of his family and tell him the truth. I'm quite sure.

>And it still doesn't change the fact that there is a fucking MASSIVE AMOUNT of official Nazi documents that prove the mass extermination of Jews, asocials, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and POWs occurred.

I definitely think something awful happened, but I'm not convinced of the numbers and I have no problem with looking into things myself and not trusting official stories of anything, much less the story that underpins both Israel and America's narrative after 1945.

>>476468
>>476468
>>DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
>>HOESS: Yes.

So how did the Germans of that period get the number so wrong? If they were the ones perpetrating it, wouldn't they(Eichman) know the true numbers? The mainstream numbers of today are about 1.1 million Jews killed, so how were they 1 million people off? That's a huge amount to be wrong by. 10,000 off, sure, understandable, 100,000, ok sure. 1 million people though? How the fuck do you make such a huge error? I thought the Germans were super meticulous and the captured German records were the basis for these numbers?

>>477057

For what it's worth he revised number to 1,135,000 at his Warsaw trial.

>>467716
actually they already covered their bases by discovering that the stress from holocaust survivors is inherited genetically.