Is the Roman Empire the most overrated empire of all time? I

Sorry, but the title of the most overrated civilization goes to the "hellenic" Greeks.
Fucking jews.

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You can't "overrate" the most influential state/civilization in history. If anything, the western part is overrated and whole "Roman empire collapsed in 476" meme should die already.

>>409903
Have we already reached sufficient board maturity for hipsterism?
Welp, let's hope it's not today Rome haters, tomorrow Hegelboos.

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>>409903
The Circus Maximus could house over 300000 people making it the greatest entertainment structure of all history

>>409903
No, it's just you that finds it particularly uninteresting like others will find other civilizations uninteresting, it's just a matter of taste and opinion, infact this whole 'x is overrated' is mostly opinions clashing with opinions and usually doesn't create a high level of discourse

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>>410004
This. I find Ancient Egypt boring as hell, hilariously enough I also find it rather overrated because of that most likely.

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>>409903
>Rome
>overrated
Where and when did your ancestors get rekt?

internal class struggle you dick

>>409903
I like Roman history, but I prefer the Greeks.

I am studying Classics, and I find the Greeks far more refreshing to read than the Romans.

>>410073
How much are you gonna earn as a high school history teacher?

>>410065
The Vandals stripped Rome bare and depopulated the city.

>Rome is overrated!!!!
>Op probably still a fan of the "high" medieval period

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Behold your betters, the warriors that carried away your valuables and depopulated your city.

>>409943
>most influential state/civilization in history
lol

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>>410235
And how long the Vandal kingdom in Africa last?

Personally I feel that the whole pre-Empire Rome far more interesting than what came after Caesar's murder.

>>410333
Not long, because they quickly realize that it was irrelevant

>>409903
Just because you don't find it interesting doesn't mean it's "overrated." It's far from that.

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>>410333
>And how long the Vandal kingdom in Africa last?
I don't care, all that matters is; Rome was stripped naked before the world and its people were ravaged by the Vandals and their allies. The people in Rome today are Italians, all the great houses and families of Rome have been expunged from the earth, the whore was made desolate before all.

This is also America's fate too.

>>410342
RIGHT! From the death of Gaius Gracchus to the death of Sulla was some of the most intense shit.

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>>410398
>Trying this hard to be edgy

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>>410398
At least you tried.

>>409903

it's impossible to overrate the meassuring stick.

we define what an empire is with Rome, not china, not the British, certainly not the fucking Ottomans. An empire as an idea was born with Rome, the splendor of civilization and the passion of pursuing it whever the horizon stretched was born with Rome.

every other civilization up until that point was a kingdom, concerned with it's own territory, people and world.

>>410398
The Vandals and the Goths, i.e the Germanic peoples were defeated and dominated for hundreds of years by the Romans, and only through technological and economic advancements made possible by the Romans were they able to defeat them
>this is also America's fate too.
Sharpen those edges fritz

>>410767
I'd say the BE re-defined 'empire'

>>409903
>Is the Roman Empire the most overrated empire of all time?
No, that would be Alexander's Empire

The most underrated would be the Persian empire

>>410817
Not at all. There are several european global empires before them, and the spanish one was as feared if not more during it's glory days, even if it had a worst end.

>>410822
>The most underrated would be the Persian empire
desu I am not very knowledgeable about Persia and it's various incarnations through history, but I fucking love it's position. There's something incredibly comfy about a country spanning entire Iranian plateau.

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>>409903

Pretty sure the Byzantine Empire is the most overrated part of Roman history.

>Muh fourth crusades
>Muh Constantinople

>>409943
Roman Empire is the most influential civilization for Western Europe, not for the entire world at best, is something you could argue.

>>412853
For all intents and purposes it's the same thing.

>>412957
No it isn't.

>>410267
There is a reason that all European empires claimed descent from Rome and titles such as Kaiser and Czar were based off of Caesar.

>>410223
getting your summers off and having an influence on several generations of children is nothing to scoff at. let me guess, you've never worked a full time job?

>>413314
At most you will influence 1-5 kids per year out of however many you teach. You'll also have shit pay and you'll grow to hate your job because kids don't care about history. The only way for the teaching of history to be fulfilling is to do it at the collegiate level, otherwise it will make you hate it.

>>413337
sounds like someone who wanted to be a history teacher but was told not to, probably by his father, and instead choose a career that is perhaps more lucrative but soul numbing all the same.

Being a history teacher isn't a bad job. Entry level pay is like 30 grand, it's unionized, and your summers are free. if you're not feeling challenged or want to teach students who are more attentive, the school district will pay for you to continue and get your masters.

are there better jobs? of course there are, but that doesn't make this a bad job.

>>409908
>Greeks
>Overrated
Name a civilization of antiquity that has as many influential individuals like ancient Greece

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>>410267
>>413065
All of the great empire of Europe were trying to emulate Rome who in turn were trying to emulate Alexander and Julius Caesar. To say that Rome is not the most important civilization to of at least the last two thousand plus years is to ignore what European powers were trying to do and what they all wanted to be. It ignores a great deal of what the various Islamic Caliphates were trying to be (hint: it was Byzantine which was Roman). The Turks when they invaded Anatolia didn't think they were taking some random piece of land. No, they were taking a piece of the Roman Empire. They called themselves the Sultanate of Rūm after they took it because they thought they were now Romans.

In their quest to be like the Romans the great powers of Europe conquered the entire world. To say that Rome was not one of the greatest and most influential civilizations of all time is to ignore what the modern world is and what it has been for over two thousand years. We are still living in the shadow of Rome today with America trying to emulate it in one form or another.

See this inaccurate picture of where Europeans colonized and controlled.

>>413386
Nah, my dad was a house painter and was just happy I did anything, I'm in my third year of med school, but have always enjoyed history. I'm glad I didn't go into the field, though.

>>413449
What is that white space in Somaliland?

>>413460
No idea. That map is inaccurate as fuck because Japan and South Korea are America's bitch as was Thailand to the British.

Liberia is a fucking American colony.

>>413449
This is irrelevant and the only people who attempted to claim they were Roman "successors" where the Ottomans in attempt to legitimatize their sacking of Constantinople and holding of Greece and Anatolia.

Roman Empire's legacy is most prevalent to Europe, not Asia, not the Near East, and so on. Your argument is completely subjective and thrown out in your first sentence when you formed the start with "of Europe".

>>413475
America isn't European

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>>413455
fair enough, i've done commercial/industrial painting and it's hard work. met a lot of interesting, weird people though and i had fun. good luck in med school, buddy.

>>413488
The modern world is shaped by the West. Rome is what they were trying to be.

>>413491
It's a country full of Europeans.

>>413449
Only the Seljuk Turks claimed to be Roman successors and that was a propaganda piece by them more then anything else. The actual Islamic Caliphates under the Arabs actually copied the Persians and used themselves to follow on the Persian example as the Sassanids heir; minting coins that emulated Sassanid's past works, using the Persian language as the language of the Empire, and so on.

Also no one in the Near East, Mesopotamia, or Levant and Central Asia gives a shit about Rome to this day. You are overrating Rome's importance as a society and influence as a culture to non-Europeans.

>>413503
I don't really care about any of that, because that's not what I was talking about.

>>413505
A great deal of Islamic architecture is based on Roman architecture. Sure the Arabs were Persian lovers but to ignore the Roman impact on it is to ignore the hundreds of Arab-Byzantine Wars and many of things that are easy to ignore.

As for if the people give a shit about it or not doesn't matter. It matters what influence Rome had on them which is quite a bit via Russia.

>>413522
>A great deal of Islamic architecture is based off Roman architecture.
You mean Persian. Persian architecture, administration, language, writing, and even culture was the overall primary influence on the Islamic world.
>Sure the Arabs were Persian lovers but to ignore the Roman impact on it
I'm not, its simply negligible and your Eurocentric propaganda is kind of obvious.
>hundreds of Arab-Byzantine Wars
There are not "hundreds' of Arab-Byzantine wars by any stretch.
>via Russia
>Rome
You mean Greekified Byzantines who were as culturally separate as possible from WRE as possible after the end of the 7th century? I don't think so.

>>413542
The Dome of the Rock is one of the most important sites in Islam and is done in a Byzantine style, there are numerous mosques that are also done in that style. To say that the Byzantines were not Roman ignores both how they viewed themselves and what the Roman Empire was after it was split.

>>413610
That architectural style isn't Roman or Byzantine. Byzantine architecture was heavily influenced by Persian art and building styles due to the cultural fission between the two empires and their proximity to each other.

You are wrong.

>>413624
>the dome of the rock isn't done in a byzantine style

Fuck off. You're clearly just a butthurt cunt who doesn't like Europe. Go suck a nigger dick.

>>413665
t. Stormfront

>>413672
t. Jew

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>>413690
>>413665

>>413624
>That architectural style isn't Roman or Byzantine.
Best be joking.

>>413702
>Significant innovation by the Persians is the raising of a dome over a square hall by means of squinches. Also influential was their use of cut-stucco decoration, various intricate motifs, and ever-apparent symmetry.
Byzantines and Persians literally assimilated each others art styles and architectural preferences by the 5th century. Frescoes made a come back in Byzantine arts because of its popularity in Sassanid courts for example, and domed architecture is a trademark in the Near East dated back distinctly from the Arsacid dynasty before the Sassanids inherited it and passed it on to their Roman counterparts.

Nah. At best you could say it was Byzantine-styled from Persian inspired architecture. Domes have been significant for over 800 years in Persia before Islam even showed up.

>>413724
But the Dome of the Rock is done in a Byzantine style. You may not like that but it's the truth. The Persians may have created what way back when influenced it but the Dome itself is Byzantine.

>>413750
It was completed by the Arabs, not the Byzantines in its construction. And regardless the ultimate argument about Roman influence on the Islamic world was minimalistic.

>>413724
Dome of the Rock was almost copypasted from Anastasis.

>>413488

>HRE
>Visigoths
>Carolingians
>Russians
>Italian Fascists & Nazis

Everyone wants to be Roman, it's the best street cred on earth

>>413665
>>413690
>>413750
>"suck nigger dick"
>"Jew"
What a great thread.

>>413777
>Europe
I think you're missing the context here that we're talking about Roman influence not being particular notable in the East.

>>413786
There wasn't just "influence". The East WAS Roman.

>>413798
No, it was not.

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I'm nowhere close to a Romeaboo or Classicist. I'm much more interested in Asia and medieval Europe. But you have to be completely retarded to think that Rome wasn't the greatest state of it's time, as well as one of the most influential in all of history. The laid down the basis for Western, Orthodox, and a good deal of Islamic civilizations, and in every way they surpassed their contemporaries in Asia. During the Republic the Qin and early Han might have been more impressive, but between 30 BC and 600 AD they were almost consistently the most impressive state on the planet (except maybe in the fifth century). Even during the 3rd century crisis their art, architecture, and infrastructure were vastly more impressive than that of their contemporaries. Anyone familiar with both Rome and their contemporaries would realize this.

Pic related made every city that came before it look like shit.

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>>413804
Challenge for you: point Jerusalem on the map.

I think Roman and Persian influence were mutual. Romans learned a great deal from eastern thought and the Persians learned a great deal from the Romans. This is usually what happens when great civilizations meet.

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>>413817
So your inane counter argument is dictating the entirety of the East is defined only by Byzantine control of the parts of it? Sure, that's not biased or anything at all.

>>413832

You just NOW realize you're arguing with a Byzantiboo?

>>413832
>Sasanind occupation of Roman lands
>Roman lands
>for the whopping 16 years at that

Nice job blowing yourself the fuck out with your own picture.

>>413488
The Islamic world is hugely indebted to Rome. That's as basic a fact of Islamic civilization as it is in the West.

>>413841
Are you blind or just being intentionally stupid? Pre-602 borders is the focus of the map.

True that.

>>413847
*The Islamic world is hugely indebted to Persia. That's as basic a fact of Islamic civilization as it is in the West.

>>413850
Look at the key on your map.

>>413838
Nah, I mean his posting style, insults, and obstiance makes it really obvious that I have been but the level of bias is really sad to see on /his/. Its like we're going through the motions of /pol/ shitposting again.

>>413855
Look at the fucking title.

>>413853
>you can't be indebted to more than one civilization

What are you even trying to say?

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>>413850
I think you're legitimately retarded. Either that or illiterate.

>>413859
Who are you quoting, my shitposting cherrypicking, dishonest friend?

>>413858
What the fuck are you trying to say? It says right there "Sassanid occupation of Roman lands c. 612-628".

>>413860
>Europe
>Ottoman
Ayyyyy

>>413870
>Image title: Sassanid Persi (circa 600 AD)
So you are illiterate.

>>413860
BTFO

>less than 20 years of Persian occupation left more of a cultural impact than 500+ years of Roman direct control

>>413449
Amen brother

>>413860
>Persians occupy Byzantine territories for only 20 or so
>leave a 1400 year old legacy on Islam
Sasuga retard.

>>413866
What the fuck? Go fuck yourself, you meme spouting retard. I said that the Islamic world was indebted to Rome, and you brought up Persia for no reason. What the fuck does that have to do with what I said? You didn't refute anything, you just spouted a random non-sequitur.

Piece of shit.

>>413872
Again, what does that have to do with anything? What does that change? What are you refuting?

I'm not even the guy you were arguing with, but you're completely insane.

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>>413872
So yes, you are indeed both retarded and uneducated.

> In 614 CE, Palestine was annexed by another Persian dynasty; the Sassanids, until returning to Byzantine control in 628 CE.

The amount of mental gymnastics and damage control you're exhibiting is laughable.

>>413879
What influence? The Levantine Muslims have always had far more Roman than Persian influence, which was mostly limited to the areas east of the Syrian desert. You'd know that if you knew anything about the Islamic world.

For someone trying to defend the 'East', you sure are ignorant of it.

>>413920
In case you didn't get it I was being sarcastic in the greentext. Of course Persians had minimal impact.

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>>413895
Because the focus on the map is primarily on the traditional borders of the Sassanid Persian Empire, not its temporary annexing of Byzantine territory. There is no mental gymnastic, and if you aren't a samefagging liar then you wouldn't be so stupid to realize his argument was that holding parts of the Levant somehow constitutes the entirety of the Near East.

>>413896
There is no mental gymnastics here on my part or anyone else for that matter. The image is even defined as pre-602 war period as the main boundary markers.

Please kill yourself.

>>413924
Oh, sorry. This guy's arguments are so weird I can't tell his posts from sarcasm. Also I'm an autist.

>>413885
Persians spearheaded Islamic arts and learning since its inception. Hell, the hijab itself is an Iranian carryover from Babylonian times.

Also the Muslim conquests virtually reversed a huge amount of the Hellenisation of the Levant, Turkey, etc. and replaced it with Islam, which is undoubtedly influenced a great deal by Persians.

Objectively, Byzantines have had less of an impact on the modern ME than Iranians, despite the lengthy rule of the Romans.

>>413927
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue right now. Are you the Persiaboo or the Byzaboo?

>>413937
Do you have a mental disability?

>>413927
>his argument was that holding parts of the Levant somehow constitutes the entirety of the Near East.
No, you said that "Roman influence not being particular notable in the East". That's bullshit, since Roman influence in the Levant and Egypt, which are some of the most important parts of the Near East, was huge.

>samefagging liar
>>413895 and >>413896 were posted at the exact same second. Either I'm a fucking magician, or maybe more than one person thinks you're retarded.

>>413927
>Because the focus on the map is primarily on the traditional borders of the Sassanid Persian Empire, not its temporary annexing of Byzantine territory.
I think you got lost. Look here >>413860

It's not my fault you're unable to read maps. There's absolutely nothing "traditional" about Persia holding the region as there's a 900 year gap between Achaemenids and Sasanids. During this gap, it belonged to Greek Seleucid and Jewish Hasmonean dynasty for a while, but it was mostly in Roman control. You fucking moron.

>>413958
And yet you were still arguing that only Roman held parts of the Levant somehow constitute the whole of Mesopotamia, you backpedaling liar. And I'm not the only one posting countering your arguments from your autistic meltdown and fit while throwing slurs and racial comments around like some white power sounding baby.

>>413960
>Seleucids
>Arsacids

>>413965
Who said anything about Mesopotamia? Where the hell did I ever use a racial slur? Where did I say anything even remotely sounding like 'white power'?

Fuck you. Don't fucking put words in my mouth, you piece of shit.

>>413967
Seleucids were Greek.

Yeah I forgot about the Parthians who held it for like 4 years lmao.

>>413960
Selucids were Iranized and not European by virtue of becoming a Persanized dynasts assimilated with Persian high families related to the Acahemenids.

>>413980
>Who said anything about Mesopotomia?
The guy who replied to his post: >>413896. Are you incapable of following the replies?

>>413965
First off Levant is NOT a part of Mesopotamia you geographically illiterate fuck.

Second, your original argument is that the Dome of the Rock is somehow "Persian" while the Persians had absolutely minimal impact on Palestine / Judea. You got royally blown apart on that account.

>>413994
>Seleucids were not European
>Greeks were not European

lmfao

Next time you're gonna tell me Rome wasn't European either.

>>413408
>Rome

>>413988
>4 years
180 BC to 117 AD is 4 years?

>>413994
Where is Mesopotamia mentioned in that post?

>>414003
Even Rome was just copypasted Greece with better military and engineering.

>>413996
So you are truly incapable of reading comprehension you fucking moron since you failed at even that. I asked him how Romans held "all of the East" when the Iranians held their own side of Mesopotamia for over 800 years and he responded by bringing up the Levant you fucking moron.

>>414015
>Romans held "all of the East"
Who the fuck ever said this?

>>414007
"The East WAS Roman."

>>414025
The East, as in the parts of the East that Rome ruled. The Levant and Egypt. You know, the Eastern Roman empire? Which was in the east?

Nobody mentioned Mesopotamia. 'East' does not imply Mesopotamia.

>>414033
Then why was he claiming contrary?

>>414034
Did he? I never saw him mention Mesopotamia. He only ever mentioned the Levant.

>>414015
You're literally imagining things.

>>414005
Your timelines are a bit off my friend. Parthia invaded in 40 BC and reinstated Hasmoneans on the throne for just a few years, before the Rome-backed Herod took control.

>>414043
Can confirm I only meant Levant, not sure where that Mesopotamia shit came from.

>>414033
Not that anon but that really doesn't excuse focusing on the totality of Roman "East" as being the significance or representative of all Eastern world.

>>414043
Like they said, the one anon brought up Persia's half of Mesopotamia as a counter to Rome/Byzantine holding all of the "East" and he insisted that having Egypt and Levant constitutes a counter argument.

Point is factually, Rome did not dominant the East. Especially since most of urban populations where concentrated more heavily in Persian Mesopotamia.

>>414046
>>414050
So is this whole argument just a pointless bullshit misunderstanding about what we mean by 'East'?

>>414055
If you mean "you" by we then sure.

>>414050
>Point is factually, Rome did not dominant the East.
So who did? Considering Rome held egypt,anatolia and Syria until the Byzantines

>>414057
I don't know who you are, but I'm neither of the original two arguing and it seems now that both of you just didn't know what the other one meant by 'east'. One meant the East Roman Empire, the other meant the Middle East.

I regret getting involved.

>>414060
Because they didn't hold much of Mesopotamia compartively? That's just the Levant man, we've gone over this in circles now. Babylonia, Assyria, Iraq, literally all of the Fertile Crescent, and so on.

Not too mention having almost total dominion over the Silk Road and the trading routes to India.

>>414068
But they were both talking about the "East" as in the Middle East, so I'm pretty certain I was following the conversation fine.

>>409903
>It's all Caesar or barb stomping then Rome gets shit on by barbs.

You're missing the reality of ALMOST EVERY INCH OF THEIR FUCKING CONQUESTS.

How retarded are you?

>>414072
Well, egyptian grain was of strategic importance to Rome, and no-one took it off them until Byzantium. If the Parthians were the dominant power of the east, they would have conquered roman east. The Romes commonly (every 50 years or so) would raid Parthia, raise its capitals and return home with loot and slaves-something Parthia never did to romes eastern provinces.

>>414073
>come in the thread
>see someone say the Dome of the Rock was mostly Persian influenced and not Byzantine
>rightfully call him a retard

That's when I joined the debate. Then you started blabbering something about Roman influence being non-existent in the east, to which I pointed where the fucking Jerusalem on the map.

>>414073
They weren't though. One was talking about the Middle East, including Mesopotamia. The other just meant the Levant, Anatolia, and Egypt. Nobody even disagrees over any facts or anything. Look at that whole argument about the map; one of them thinks the focus is on the time Persia ruled the Levant, the other was just pointing out that Persia held Mesopotamia. Both read the map fine, but they (and I) didn't understand what point the other was using it to make.

It's all a big pile of nothing.

>>414084
>If the Parthians were the dominant power of the east
They were.
>they would have conquered roman east
They weren't particularly interested in aggressive expansion, in general.
>would raid Parthia
Rome never got anywhere near the actual provinces of Parthia. I assume you mean Parthian lands, and they were not particularly successful. See Trajan's failure to hold his lands and his army being decimated on its retreat after his failed invasion.

And the Parthians did frequently take slaves of Roman citizens and soldiers, so I'm not sure where your getting your facts on this from but its not true.

>Be a non-nomadic Iranian
>Copypaste of Semitic Mesopotamia until Arabic conquests with some inconsequential additions of own
>Have to wait for Arabs to take over the Hellenistic East to contribute anything worthwhile to world civilization and that mostly in the Arabic language

Literally the most overrated Indo-European speakers...

>>414089
>I'm not sure where your getting your facts on this
Cassius Dio

Where prey tell, are you getting your facts from?

they were the second most powerful civilization at the time next to China and essentially took all the good points of all the civilizations prior.

Political structures were so top notch that even though there was a lot of political herp derp in the city of Rome all the other territories went about their business like normal

and the whole "Pax Romana" your average citizen can live their whole life traveling throughout the empire without much fear of getting killed by enemy armies and bandits, something common in today's first world countries but unheard of in the ancient world (I don't think even China had that).

So no, I don't think they are overrated (ancient Greece and pre-19th century Europe on the other hand).

>>414087
Who are you quoting? And there's more then 2 or 3 people here arguing for the Persians so I'm not certain what your retard finger pointing is trying to imply.

>>410351
That's a funny way to say "unceremoniously crushed by the Romans, despite outnumbering them by better than 4:1"

>>414109
>second most
In what way was China better?

>>414104
If Cassius Dio is claiming Parthians never took Romans as slaves, then he's incorrect. You know, from guys like Plutarch.

>>414109
>So no, I don't think they are overrated (ancient Greece and pre-19th century Europe on the other hand).

The Hellenistic world and 15th to 19th century Europe are rightly rated up there.

China at any point in history on the other hand is massively overrated.

>>414111
Get the fuck out with your "who are you quoting" reddit meme, retard. My point was the following:

>Dome of the Rock is patterned after Roman churches
>thus the claim the East was devoid of Roman influences is utter horseshit

>>414114
He didn't say better. He said powerful.

And in a straight comparison, Chinese forces often dwarfed roman forces.

>>414117
>China at any point in history on the other hand is massively overrated.
Between 600 AD and 1200 AD it was usually the most impressive civilization on Earth. The Han is overrated though.

>>414118
>reddit meme
>retard
Also what script do Near Easteners uniformly use? Its not the Latin alphabet last I checked, my autistic friend.

>>414114
They had a bigger economy, more advanced technology (they already had crossbows), more intricate bureaucracy, and arguably their army was better as well (China has less difficulty with the Huns than Romans but that was probably more due to the big-ass wall they made).

>>414089
>Rome never got anywhere near the actual provinces of Parthia.

In 113 AD, the Roman Emperor Trajan made eastern conquests and the defeat of Parthia a strategic priority,[2] and successfully overran the Parthian capital, Ctesiphon, installing Parthamaspates of Parthia as a client rule

In 165, Roman forces, perhaps led by Martius Verus and the V Macedonica, moved on Mesopotamia. By the end of the year, Cassius' army had reached the twin metropolises of Mesopotamia: Seleucia on the right bank of the Tigris and Ctesiphon on the left. Ctesiphon was taken and its royal palace set to flame. The citizens of Seleucia, still largely Greek (the city had been commissioned and settled as a capital of the Seleucid empire, one of Alexander the Great's successor kingdoms), opened its gates to the invaders. The city got sacked nonetheless

In 195, another Roman invasion of Mesopotamia began under the Emperor Septimius Severus, who occupied Seleucia and Babylon, and then sacked Ctesiphon yet again in 197. Parthia ultimately fell not to the Romans, but to the Sassanids under Ardashir I, who entered Ctesiphon in 226.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman%E2%80%93Parthian_Wars

Time to re-read Plutarch chum

>>414117
post-Alexander Hellenistic world is pretty underrated really.

>>414127
All your points are wrong, except maybe the first, which doesn't mean much in pre-Industrial times anyway.

>>414126
Are you going to say that because Hungarians don't speak an Indo-European language they aren't European next?

>>414126
>script is Arabic
>thus there is no Roman influence whatsoever

Love how you shifted from your Persian Rock Dome claim, even you probably realized how utterly retarded it was.

>>414122
Alright, but still, Rome conquered the entire Mediterranean, including what were at the time more impressive civilizations like the Etruscans, Greeks, Ptolemies, Carthaginians, etc. China just fended off a few barbarians. Bigger armies don't mean more powerful.

Though I suppose it's an unfair comparison, since China didn't have any civilized enemies anyway.

>>414122
And had wildly inferior equipment and commanders. Vercingetorix's army at Alesia was 200,000 strog, which is nearly as large as contemporary Chinese armies. He didn't do too well against 80,000 Romans.

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>>414133
Why are you ignoring the part about Trajan's disastrous retreat? About that nifty Battle of Edessa where 70,000 Romans were largely wiped out and the survivors along with Valerian were forced into fetters and chains as slaves?

You seem to enjoy cherrypicking, honey booboo.

>>414140
Who is >you, because I never made that argument.

>>414137
What an adorable non-sequiter.

>>414149
Then fuck off and stop arguing with me.

>>414153
No, faggot. I don't do what you tell me to do.

>>414149
You're right. The Middle East speaks Arabic as its majority language. No one else ever had thought that was not in Arabic.

>>414146
>>Rome never got anywhere near the actual provinces of Parthia.
As least im not telling outright lies. Now remind us, why was Parthia the dominant power in the east if the Romans could sack its capitals frequently, and it was overthrown by the Persians in 226?

>>414160
Okay you teenage meme loving fuck, shitpost as much as you wish. Preferably put a tripcode on too so I can filter your shit.

>>414117
"overrated" is a relative term

15th-18th were good but they weren't the "highest most advanced civilization in the world" they and others make them out to be.

19th century can claim that because by that time they did have the power to rape the rest of the world.

>>414117
China isn't overrated, China is just shit. Until like the 1960s anyway.

>>414162
It's capital was near Roman borders, of course it could easily get sacked.

>>414162
Parthia is a province in Iran you mongoloid retard, the Parni ruled Persia in their empire under the dynasty of the Arsacids. And what kind of retarded circular argument is that?

Rome was entering its peak in the 2nd century AD when Parthia was declining due to frequent civil wars and Persian rebellions in its eastern territories, and both Trajan and Severus both took advantage of this.

Look at how well it went for Carcalla and Trajan when they were put to flight, their armies were harassed, took severe causalities, and overburden the Empire both financially and physically by the manpower drain in fruitless wars trying to add more land to the Roman East.

How are the Romans the dominant power of the West if they get ass-fucked by a bunch of backwards snownigger barbarians?

>>414163
Please kill yourself, Stormfront kun.

>>414127
>bigger economy
As far as I know, Rome had a much larger industrial output then the Han. There's some image floating around with the statistics, but I don't have it saved.

>more advanced technology (they already had crossbows)
They were advanced, no doubt there, but the Romans outdid them in things like engineering and architecture.

>more intricate bureaucracy
Maybe, but they fell apart faster than Rome did. The Han lasted about 400 years. Rome lasted almost 2000, and were only really destroyed by invaders while the Han fell apart mostly from within. Of course Rome had periods of civil war and disunity, but so did the Han.

>arguably their army was better as well
See >>414141 and >>414145

Also, while you can call it subjective, their art and literature were just far better.

I love China, but their golden age was really from the Tang onward. They were the greatest civilization on Earth at that point.

>>414168
>THEY NEVER GOT TO ACTUAL PARTHIAN PROVINCES
>but they sacked their capital
>B-BUT THE CAPITAL WAS SO CLOSE

Not even the guy you're arguing with but your backpedalling is just so adorable to observe.

Also Ctesiphon is pretty much modern day Baghdad.

>>414173
>Stormfront
Talk about non sequitur.

>>414180
No, idiot. No one is denying they got into deeply in Parthian territories, but the ACTUAL PROVINCE OF PARTHIA itself is in Khorasan and Eastern Greater Iran.

>>414181
You don't know what a non-sequiter is and abusing fallacy claims isn't saving you any face.

>>414149
If that wasn't your argument, then what was?

>>413449

why is guiana part of europe?

>>414192
Who are you again?

>>414164
My argument isn't about when European powers became world superpowers, which was very late and only lasted a little while (well, it does continue in some ways). It's when their journey of definitevely getting far ahead of the rest of the world in almost every endeavor (that ultimately resulted in their supremacy) started. You could even add a couple of centuries actually.

>>414196
It's officially a part of France. Same reason Siberia is included.

>>414183
You said provinces. Plural.

>>414185
What does make any of my posts "stormfront"?

>>414198
I'm not even part of the argument, I just don't understand why you brought script up.

>>414204
Then that was a typo mistake.

>>414183
>Greater Iran

Jesus, the Indo-European-speaking Sand Negro expat community is so funny.

How is your HDI working out for you?

>>414178
>They were advanced, no doubt there, but the Romans outdid them in things like engineering and architecture.

yeah Romans did make better city planning tech than the Chinese

hard to really say if the Legions were of better quality than the Chinese armies, guess Romans had better defense with their shields and all but the Chinese had a lot more variety of weapons, and as for experience of armies guys of the Steppes ended up raping the east and the est at the end (though Rome was basically dead by that time).

>>414201

yeah, its a colony they got to keep bro. its on the opposite side of the planet from europe

>>414210
Sounds like something a /pol/ reject would quip when called out. You are a shitposter either way.

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>>414212
Sure it was.

>you will never backedal this hard

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>>414214
>expat community
How did you arrive at that destination, Mr. Neo Nazi?

>>414220
Who are you quoting?

>>414219
No, genuinely curious. What was stormfront about anything I said?

>>414183
Thanks for correcting us, so the Romans frequently invaded Parthian lands(but not the province with that name) and raised its capital several times.

Because Rome was not the dominant power in the east....

Remind me, how many times did the Parthians raise Rome? or Alexandria?

>>414214
Not him, but Greater Iran is a pretty real thing. Central Asia was Iranian before it was Turkified, and even then it retained a Persianate culture.

>>414211
>I'm not even part of the argument.
I'm not buying it.
>>414214
Glad to see /pol/keks are here in force.

>>414214
The lose of the Scythians to Turkic invaders was pretty awful.

>>414227

These are quotation marks: ""
This is le meme arrow: >

Learn the difference.

>>414178
>They were the greatest civilization on Earth at that point.

This "greatest X" arguments seem to always ignore particular aspects. I admit, I'm not that well-rounded - I enjoy the history of science and mathematics for example - and calling China at that point the "greatest" by that criterion, for example, is arguably very wrong.

>>414218
I'm not saying it should be there. It's pretty retarded really. Same with Siberia.

>>414214
>Modern day Khorasan consists of eastern Iran, Tajikistan, parts of Turkmenistan, Afgahnistan, and parts of western Pakistan.
You are stupid, man.

>>414229
I'm still waiting for a rebuttal for all those times over-extended Roman armies got annihilated invading into Parthia and chased back toward Roman Anatolia.

>Rome
Yeah, its certainly a fair point to make when one's capital is over 2000 miles further away from the borders then Ctesiphon is right?

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>"""""""""""""""""""""""""Greater Iran"""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>414237
Who are you quoting?

>>414247
Mahmud Ahmajihad

>>414231
Majestic Belarus, part of Greater Iran because some Scythians camped there now and then.

>>414250
Who are you quoting?

>>414243

Hey Ardashir, how do you feel about Arabs being objectively superior to "Persians"? Shouldn't you be thanking them for allowing you to contribute something of your own, as opposed to just stealing from Mesopotamians, to world civilization.

>>414243
>I'm still waiting for a rebuttal for all those times over-extended Roman armies
????
Because they were over-extended????

Surely launching an attack into another territory would suggest dominance not submission???

And when will u respond to my question as to why the supposed "dominant" Parthians did not launch successful raids into Rome held lands on regular occasions, because they were so "dominant"

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>>414261
>Ardashir
>stealing from Mesopotamians
>world civilizations

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>Greater Iran

>>414266
>u
You have to be over 18 to post on 4chan.
>>414251
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran

Have fun rebuking the academia of the Near East with your opinion, god speed on that.

Not it makes sense why this shithead launched into a tantrum when someone referred to Levant as "the East". The asspain is palpable.

I don't like the Roman Empire, nor do I like any of its successors, but each person has its preferences.

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>>414259
>Greater Iran

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>>414278
>>414273
>>414261

>>414278
You mean yourself?
>>414286
Who are you quoting?

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>>414239
Well, the Muslims were probably better at the time when it came to things like astronomy and medicine, but the Chinese were better at the likes of alchemy and engineering. This was the period gunpowder and the printing press were invented (though the latter was later reinvented in Europe).

Culturally speaking, their art was by far the best. It's subjective, sure, but there really wasn't anything at the time that could match their painting, sculpture and other crafts. Politically, the Tang and Northern Song were probably the most stable states of their size in the world (the Abbasids couldn't hold together for even a century). Economically, I've heard that the Song were the most industrial civilization of their time, and this is the period when paper money was invented.

They weren't the best at everything; Islamic astronomy and Indian architecture were both better, for example. But generally they were the best at most things between roughly 600 AD and 1200 AD. After that, Gothic Europe was ahead.

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>>414287
>>414289
>>414274
>Greater Iran

>>409903
I don't know if it is overrated but I am tired of hearing about the Western Empire. I just find it uninteresting compared to other subjects.

>>414302
Who are you quoting?

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>Greater Iran

>>414251
Dude what? I'm talking about Central Asia. Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc. Those were historically part of the Iranian world, hence all the "-stan"s.

I don't even want to know what kind of incomprehensible train of thought lead you to bring up Belarus of all places.

>>414309
>>414302
>>414286
>>414273
Who are you quoting?

>>414251
>Belarus

>>414302
>>414309
This is some good shitposting, anon, keep it up.

>Greater Iran

Greater than what? Sub-Saharan Africa? Maybe, but then again Iranians do have small dicks.

>>414320
Who are you quoting?

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>Greater Eye-ran

>and Greater Iran, Iran so far away

>>414328
>>414333
Who are you quoting?

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>this entire thread
>Greater Iran

>>414345
Who are you quoting?

>>413488
>not Asia

The Tzars ruled a good chunk of Asia and Tzar literally means Caesar bruh.

>>414375
Russians aren't Asians.

>>414375
Most of "Russian Asia" is inhospitable and sparsely populated land. Also since when were Russians "Asians"? That's like saying the Turks count as Europeans because a tiny stretch of their land is in Europe from Anatolia.

>>414384
>>414381
>Siberia
>not habitated almost exclusively by m*ngol descents

>>414396
So that makes Russians, Asiatic now? Also stop bumping this awful thread please.

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Overrated ? are you for real? they actually underrated,nowadays hearing ignorant people claiming the Chinese were more advanced is common.
They were so advanced their industry produced more tons of metal than the British empire in world war 1,they were so advanced that their constructions were impossible to recreate until late modernity,they were so advanced that even chink doctors have to memorize names in latin because they invented modern medicine,they were so advanced their logistics and professionalism was unheard of until Napoleonic wars time,etc.
And you think they are overrated,I bet you are the type of people who claims white people have no culture,a aberration created by overexposure to the media.

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>>410267
>Types in roman script to laugh at the fact that Rome is the most influential ancient civilization
The irony.

>>413488
Rome is the most important empire of European history,European history is the most important history of the human race,to deny this is exposing your butthurt and inferiority complex.

>>414431

/thread
/board
/chinese cavepainting forum

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>>414431

>>414431
This

>>414396
Maybe 200 years ago but modern Siberians are whiter than the European part of Russia.

>>414145
>And had wildly inferior equipment
No.

>and commanders

>Vercingetorix's army at Alesia was 200,000 strog, which is nearly as large as contemporary Chinese armies. He didn't do too well against 80,000 Romans.
And then you go full retard.
Vercingetorix was trapped on a hill only able to communicate with a tiny portion of his force.
Modern estimates peg the battle at 60vs100k. The romans, though surrounded, were also fortified, able to communicate, and act as one body. They also had no option to retreat, forcing the men to fight to the death.

You're also comparing an unorganized tribal levy-and a confederation of tribes, to boot- to a professional army, and thinking it is representative of Chinese armies, which are going to have a large proportion of semi professional and professional soldiers.

>>414274
And you?
You're a retard.
The power that is constantly losing their capital is not dominant. The parthians were NEVER dominant in the east.

The biggest fucking mistake rome made was beating them up too badly, and allowing a stronger dynasty to take control and actually create a credible army and threat.


If I break into your house, you run off, i rape your mom, steal a bunch of your shit, rape your sister, come back and do it a few more times, and HAPPEN to get my ass kicked by you on my way out the door doing it?

Your ass isn't dominant. Mine is. The parthian response was the equivalent of you retaliating by routinely sneaking in to my yard fucking my cat. Oh, and you broke my leg once. After I fucked your mother again. Painful, and i'm going to act to curtail the violation of my cat, but not an actual threat, which is precisely how the parthians were viewed.


The sassanids? They were seen as an actual, existential threat to the empire. And they were.

The parthians were not.

>>414508
>this autism
Cute. Save men deserting in the thousands from Roman legions to Parthian ambushes, harrassment, and raids constitutes more then "fucking your cat", my downplaying retarded anon.

And this repeats itself every time.

>>414508
Uh, Rome never did shit to cause the Arsacid dynasty's downfall. Their downfall was entirely internal, not external. Even a decade before Ardashir would establish the Sassanid's as the dominant regional power, Atrabanus would deal with Caracalla's threat without issue once the Roman Emperor was dead, driving his legions away who suffered massive casulities.

I think you overestimate Rome's impact on Parthia.

Rome and Hellas are part of the identity of every European and its descendents and therefore the modern world. Like the Muslims look to Mekka, we look at Rome.

Finland, a country where no Roman ever set foot, is one of few countries that broadcasts the news in Latin.

Or take Germany, another region over which Rome did not rule. During the first world war a man who called himself Caesar was opposed by communist revolutionaries carrying the name of Spartacus.

Rome's influence is not limited to its borders or its historical era. (whether until 476 or 1450). It influences the culture and identity of Europe millenia later. It is not overrated, it's just that important.

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>>414650
>Finland

>>414650
>Like the Muslims look to Mekka, we look at Rome.
Actually the foundational civilization of the Middle East is Persia. Its pretty underrated how much Islam is greatly influenced by Persian civilization in almost all aspects of its life.