Was he a bad guy /his/? People worship him like a hero but from

Consider the following: you're retarded.

>>403525
He was literally a terrorist that targeted civilians

>>403530
How so?

>>403535
Yea this is what i've been reading but was never taught about in school

>>403525
Killing 70.000 inkhata suporters comes to mind the wole of ANC was a criminal syndicate adept at fooling leftist idiots in the west. The number of ANC members killed by the SA government runs in the dozens at most while the ANC commited numerous acts of terrorism, murder and what could be considered genocide upon the Zulu moderates.

>>403525
>a bad guy
>>>/pol/valuejudgementsgeneral

He was not a perfect man, saintly in every way like the ANC makes him out to be. However, he's not the LOLBABYKILLINGTERRIST that 4chan makes him out to be. Any armed resistance movement is going to have violence attributed to it, and his efforts after his release from Robben island to peaceably solve the conflict is fucking admirable. In 1994, if Mandela had not said "put your machetes down" but rather "raise them against the white man", SA would be a complete and utter shithole with no chance. Currently it's just a minor shithole that stands something of a chance, provided Zuma fucks off.

tl;dr, not a good man, but the right man.

>>403551
>Killing 70.000 inkhata suporters
Source?

>>403579
He is referring to the war between Inkata and the ANC in Kwa-Zulu Natal in the 90s. Its so much more complicated than
>Mandela did it

>>403571
>South Africa
>Any chance without Apartheid

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Have you read about necklacing yet? That should clear up all doubts.

>>403617
oh yeah because the country was so great when the NP was running it right? You do realise that the NP was more corrupt than the ANC? They used to take land from people who legitimately owned it and give it to government officials and their family members, even if they didn't know how the fuck to run a farm. Plenty of good land went to waste like that, and you can still find farms where the soil has been fucked up to the point where it can only support cattle. The mines? Good god, some of the old mines were so shittily overseen by the government that they are literally better off collapsed. Go to Witbank and see what NP oversight did to the place. You know that one town in America that had to be abandoned because of underground coal fires? Imagine that, but also with a city 1/6th the size of detroit and with three times the shittiness. Their groundwater has a pH of 2. The NP used to fucking well censor the newspapers, at least we have a free press now.

>>403644
>Their groundwater has a pH of 2

Jesus Christ.

>>403644
>oh yeah because the country was so great when the NP was running it right?

That's why many South Africans, including blacks, think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4f0INWfws0

>>403633
>revolutionary terror is inherently evil
No matter where you live, this sentiment is in all likelyhood treasonous.

>>403660
Yeah, and the rest of us think they're fucking stupid. Note that the only blacks that think the country was better under NP rule are old ass, uneducated guys who grew up being told that. Every single fucking day. They're indoctrinated as fuck. Shit, when I lived on a farm, we had a gardener who still carried his pasboek around. Shit was sad. And the white people who think that are, to a man, racist and stupid or racist and arrogant. Trust me on this, anon, the country is better off no-
okay, the country was better off ~10 years ago than ever before, except maybe under British rule. Maybe. Probably about equal.

>>403677
Funny how that works. When old Russians say they miss communism, that's proof that communism was great, but when old South Africans say they miss apartheid, that's just because they are uneducated and indoctrinated old asses.

>okay, the country was better off ~10 years ago than ever before, except maybe under British rule. Maybe. Probably about equal.

And it will only get worse. Wait until Malema get power, as it's inevitable.

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>>403710
>When old Russians say they miss communism, that's proof that communism was great, but when old South Africans say they miss apartheid, that's just because they are uneducated and indoctrinated old asses.

Yea because it's totally the same person thinking those two things. Not the same person, but don't you have even a tiniest sense of intellectual honesty in your?

>>403723
Only commies dislike apartheid South Africa, so yeah, it is intellectual dishonest for them to accuse South Africa under apartheid of being oppressive while the Soviet Union was worse (including the prevalence of a internal passport system, the Propiska, more repressive that the one in South Africa).

>>403735
>Only commies dislike apartheid South Africa
That's why the entire western world severed ties with it I guess. Because the cold war was between communists and other communists.

>>403723
> Only commies dislike apartheid South Africa
Nah you're delusional. I'm no commie and I dislike apartheid.

>>403723
Are you forgetting that dismantling Aparthied was widely approved by many South African whites towards the end?

Or were they all brainwashed by liberal communist Jewish propaganda?

>>403723
This is some bullshit the old people who say communism was good in Russia are just as brainwashed and stupid as the people in South Africa who say Apartheid was better. SA had media censorship, retarded restrictions on freedoms and an economy that grew much more slowly than it should have. Also it was a Calvinist shit hole. Fuck off with this retarded
>only commies don't like Apartheid shit.

>>403735
>Only commies dislike apartheid South Africa
How much of a hugbox are you used to, friend?

>>403735
>Only commies dislike apartheid South Africa
Naas generalisation there bru, please tell me more

/his/ is 50% christfag threads, 50% jerking off historical leaders.

You're saying this particular historical leader is evil because some of his soldiers killed people?

It's easy to look back now and say going militant was a bad idea. I think he himself would probably agree that terrorism is definitely wrong, but in his case he would argue the ends justified the means. Want you can't argue is that he was a great leader and orator, and his vision and understanding of what South Africa should be were noble and just. It's a shame the people following him are just as corrupt as the guys he sought to depose.

>>403840
You could replace Nelson with Hitler and South Africa with Germany and say the exact same thing, yet people say Hitler was Evil and Nelson was good

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>>403848
>You could replace X with Hitler

>>403848
>and his vision and understanding of what South Africa should be were noble and just
I doubt most people would say the same about Hitler, even if you replace South Africa with Germany.

>>403848
Madiba never instituted a program which killed 11 million people for the ethnicity, ableness or political leanings. I think that may contribute to him not being as evil as Hitler, m8

>>403848
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
Only took 27 posts, well done

>>403855
I doubt most liberal, blue pilled retards who have no understanding of the world and history except for who the Kardashians are currently banging would say the same about Hitler

>>403856
I'll not get into that one with you because that's a discussion for another thread

>>403861
Kek, didn't even know this was a thing
FTFY

>>403866
>I doubt most liberal, blue pilled retards who have no understanding of the world and history except for who the Kardashians are currently banging would say the same about Hitler
That is correct, but neither would most educated people.

>>403878
How is wanting the best for your people not noble and just? That's all nelson wanted also

>>403677
And when the younger ones say that they don't want apartheid, they somehow AREN'T indoctrinated?
Fucking idiot

>>403885
Nelson wanted a south africa for blacks and whites, with peace between the two. Hitler wanted a germany free of other races/the racially inferior, by way of escalating measures that targeted anyone who didn't fit. Even if you deny the holocaust, which I am 100% certain you do, you cannot deny this.

>>403894
Switch those two photos around, it'll still be true. You know nothing of South Africa

>>403889
Well that's funny because Nelson killed white civilians and Hitler allowed other races including Jews and blacks to serve in his military and live in Germany. Seems the actions of the two differ from your words. Let's say the holocaust happened, Hitler didn't even target Jews because they were racially inferior he targeted them because he believed they had wronged him and his country. If he believes Jews as a minority could control so much then surely that says he believes they were superior than inferior

>>403740
>Because the cold war was between communists and other communists

That's exactly what the Cold War was, an internal dispute in the international communism movement.

>>403907
That's some next-level mental gymnastics right there, so I doubt you're serious.
Still, Mandeka killed in the struggle for power in order to erect an inclusive, democratic order, Hitler kept killing until the end, and abolished democracy.
And if Hitler attacked the jews as criminals, why did he also target among them the poor, the old, the women and children? And for the inclusiveness towards black people, I'd suggest you google Rhineland Bastards.

>>403886
so not want to be oppressed by a corrupt government is indoctrination now?

>>403924
Given enough propaganda, living under any government can be framed as being "oppressed by a corrupt government".

>>403924
My point is you can't explain away what the old people think as "brainwashing" and what the young people think as "progressive thoughts of their own"

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>>403894

Nice picture mate, here's one I just made. It's even the same city, Detroit, showing before and after Bush came to power, and how he ruined the city.

Surely this will be a convincing argument used on the internet, who will sway someone instead of just fuelling my own ego why making an idiot out of myself.

I'm sure every republican in sight will see the wrongs in their ways and not view my post for what it is, blatant shitposting.

>>403710
nobody is arguing that both communism and the apartheid are shit systems that didn't work.

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>>403907
k bra

>>403921
So killing your enemies to gain power is okay but killing your enemies to defend your people once you gain power is bad? Also you misunderstand, i don't believe Hitler attacked Jews i'm saying if he did he did because of their actions and not their racial inferiority you could argue why did Mandela also kill women and children if it was just white men who were his enemy? Jews wronged him so Jews had to go, you can't pick and choose what Jews go or where do you draw the line? At least that's what he was thinking if he was thinking of exterminating the Jews which he wasn't.

>Rhineland Bastards
Half breeds Hitler believed to be a Jewish plot to destroy his people, therefore making them enemies of his people

>>403953
Okay, anon, level with me here, do you actually think that Hitler was the good guy? Do you actually believe that Mandela was worse?
>

/pol/ and /his/ are all the proof you need to show that white people going extinct would raise the world's average IQ

>>403972
Eh, I think it would just stay the same. There's /pol/ idiots in every culture/race

>>403723
Both countries had a sharp immediate decline after those systems died.

Russia is on its way back up, but still has lingering issues from the Yeltsin years.

South Africa, on the other hand, is in a sharp decline thanks to a lack of leadership.

>>403953
>you can't pick and choose what Jews go or where do you draw the line
How about you draw the line at people who did nothing wrong? Are you suggesting that Mandela tried to get rid of all white people? Because otherwise the equivalence wouldn't hold up.
Also, violence is often the only way against a system that won't let you participate peacefully. If anything, saying that Mandela was justified even in his early, militant days,strongly implies that jewish terrorism would have been justified afainst Hitler's anti-jewish measures.

>Half breeds Hitler believed to be a Jewish plot to destroy his people, therefore making them enemies of his people
>therefore
Jeez, take a logic course or something, that conclusion is super invalid.

>>403644
>The mines? Good god, some of the old mines were so shittily overseen by the government that they are literally better off collapsed.

it's way better now, with gold mines closed but illegally mined by zimbabwean illegal immigrants, who pay the corrupt local police just enough that they don't go in there and start killing people indiscriminately (which they end up doing pretty regularely anyway)

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>>403972
Somehow I doubt that

>people think that the anti-apartheid struggle was just a fight between white South Africa vs black South Africans

It was Boers + Zulus vs Xhosa + Anglos + Jews more than anything. To this day, many Zulus still miss apartheid. Mandela wasn't a hero for black people, he was a Xhosa supremacist.

http://beta.iol.co.za/news/politics/king-praises-apartheid-regime-1956136

>>403889
Additionally, he was strongly opposed to Germans living normal, peaceful, decent lives. He wanted every German man possible drafted and sent into some kind of armed conflict where he could see his mates killed and maimed, if he made it home, and he wanted every German woman possible concerned with pumping out sons she could bury.

How is that at all what's best for Germans?

>ctrl+f Truth and Reconciliation Commission
>0 results

Jesus fuck you people are retarded. The reason he was held in such high regard was that, despite his terrorist past, he worked for a peaceful transition. Everyone fully expected him to be a Mugabe on steroids, but instead of going full retard and promoting retribution against whites, he created the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and tried to foster forgiveness.

>>404336
So if ISIS ask for peace they become good?

>>404348
If ISIS wins nonviolently and brings peace to syria by building the foundations of co-existence, well, they wouldn't be ISIS anymore but that's besides the point, of course people would like that.

Isn't it the official stance of rainbow nation South Africa to not allow any sort of separatism because it's a multicultural paradise basically? Even if the people want to rule themselves in their own country South Africa won't allow it because it loves and embraces all.

>>404348
If the Balsamic State suddenly pulled a 180 and
>ran a war crimes commission exposing every crime committed by all sides
>created a new government that has majority rule without being vindictive against the former ruling class
then yeah, they'd become good.

>>403866
>I doubt most liberal, blue pilled retards who have no understanding of the world and history except for who the Kardashians are currently banging would say the same about Hitler
Nice assumptions you made there. Back to your containment board, faggot

>>403866
muh Cultural Marxism
muh degeneracy
muh colored pills

this isn't /pol/

>>404560
Shut your fucking mouth, kike. Day of the rope can't come soon enough.

>>403866
>pill meme
into the trash

Refreshing to see some actual debate on this instead the Apartheid state being the most absolute flawless good.

Does anyone have a good, balanced (or if there is no balance to be found, simply correct) book or paper of everything you need to know about the Apartheid state?

>>403633
>Mandela had a personal hand in literally everything any ANC member did
>>>/pol/memes
Winnie on the other hand was an absolute cunt

>>403525
He was no better or worse than the government he was fighting in terms of atrocities committed.

Politically, he was a step in the right direction. The ANC going to shit once he died was 2 steps backwards.

>>403525
Dudes my hero tbqh.

>>403525
>he sounds just as bad as the bad he was fighting
Apartheid deserved to be destroyed. It's very easy for us to waggle our fingers at people like him who use violence to resist tyranny.

>>404964
ANC became shit the moment he retired, not the moment he died.

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>>403972

>>404575
>pol
Back in the cage fucko

>>403525
He's an arsehole. But he changed his ways after obtaining power and became more benevolent.

As opposed to Robert Mugabe who kept terrorizing everybody and anybody in his way even after he became the president of Zimbabwe

>>404071

Zulus are such cunts though. Truly the worst of all blacks in South Africa.

>>403644
>oh yeah because the country was so great when the NP was running it right?

it was literally better in pretty much every single measurable aspect.
crime rates, life expectancy, public health, ...

>>403735
>Only commies dislike apartheid South Africa
ffs

>>408687
bitch porn was illegal!
the media was censored
you couldn't go to the same beach as other races
you couldn't fuck black/mixed/Indian/Asian chicks.
idk if you're into that or not but can you honestly say that you want this level of government control of your daily life?

He was basically the black Hitler except he actually intended to commit a genocide but its okay since the victims were white and Obama will celebrate your death.

>>408811
>celebrate your death

By that I mean he called him a hero and said all of America should mourn. How backward and despicable...

>>408808
Sounds like a very proud society with high standards. What are you a degenerate miscegenator?

I've heard modern south africa today is something of a shithole. Please inform me on this

From a purely efficiency based standpoint, was apartheid SA better in this respect?

Mother Theresa: shit cunt
Nelson Mandela: terrorist
Gandhi: racist, woman beater and a retard
MLK: adulterer and a communist on Soviet payroll

You could probably lump Mugabe from the 70s and 80s with them too.

>>408811
I think Mandela wised up, he could've gone full Mugabe and just slaughtered the whites but he didn't.

>>408834
George Washington was a terrorist too

>>408820
Why do you want some old guy to tell you what to do every day?
>>>/nannystate/

>>408840
Yep.

But there's been a lot of George Washington criticism lately (slave owner, plutocrat, gambler shit commander etc), yet those people mentioned above are still regarded as saints.

>>408847
I'm pretty sure most americans still have a saint-like image of George Washington.

>>408840
Nigga he was.
And he was the asshole that started the entire thing in the first place.

The troops under his command wayyyy back in the day were the ones that sparked the 7 Years war which the British then taxed the colonies to pay for defense which caused the revolution.

>>408851
Well most people at least know he actually owned slaves and shit like that so it's obvious to everyone he wasn't perfect.

>>408851
Do non-Americans worship him though? I really doubt it, while Mandela has a worldwide cult for some reason.

>>403525
>he sounds just as bad as the bad he was fighting

>suid afrika
>bad

They had the bad luck of not being in line with either ideological power block.

>>408871
Apartheid was pretty shit and I'm certainly no nig lover.

>>408837
Exactly. He saw what happened in Zimbabwe and realized that retribution wasn't going to get them anywhere.

That's why people hold him in such high regard - he had every reason to go full Mugabe and everyone expected it, and yet he instead decided to try to foster forgiveness.