What went wrong?

>>402280
europe

by existing

>>402286

Explain

everything

>>402286
Speaking of which, where is Europe on the OP's map?

>>402280
Honest answer? Poor environmental conditions for nation building. Agriculture didn't arrive until much later than in Eurasia IIRC.

Islam

>>402291
we ourselves waged war for centuries to finally form borders that were mostly not dividing population groups, and then we go to africa and draw a bunch of straight lines through the continent declaring them as borders with no real regard for what groups we were dividing or putting together

>>402302
What is an Europe?

Cousin marriage.

>>402280
Blacks being less intelligent since iq correlates with success.
>inb4 /pol/

File: F1.large.jpg (160KB, 1280x830px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 1280x830px

>>402325
If anything this was a bigger problem for most of Europe than Africa

>>402331
There's a shiton more factors that provoke sucess then just iq

>>402339
>literally all the African countries are red except the unknown

What are you trying to prove

>>402314
Well I mean. Africa wasn't exactly a paradise full of technology and enlightenment when we arrived.

>>402374
yes, but people need unity and stability for them to advance more

borders are important

>>402383
did you mean to reply to someone else?

>>402355
Why is it then that Africa which had plenty of resources didn't produce anything of note?

File: h.png (201KB, 450x389px) Image search: [Google]

201KB, 450x389px

>>402386
I don't know

>>402392
What would medieval people do with plutonium?

>Africa (excluding the North and Horn)
Isolation from Eurasia meant that agriculture started spreading really late (about 2000 BC in West Africa, after 500 BC in East Africa, 200 AD in South Africa). This left little time for civilization to emerge except in West Africa around 800 AD or so. Civilization developed here between about 800-1700 AD, but then the slave trade started fucking up everything and the whole region's society and economy was ruined. Meanwhile East Africa was fucked by the Indian Ocean slave trade. Then came colonialism, which ended the chaos of the 19th century but completely failed to set down the foundations for development, neglecting African education, infrastructure, and economic development. Decolonization was rushed and chaotic and was followed by the Cold War which made thing even worse as the East and West propped up useless dictators. Bullshit colonial borders made national integration impossible in many places and encouraged ethnic conflict, while another crisis grew in central Africa starting with the Rwandan genocide and continuing today, while Islamic extremism causes even more conflict.

>Islamic world
They were ahead of the West at first, but gradually fell behind as their cultural and intellectual dynamism declined. The Gunpowder Empires which ruled until the 18th century failed to modernise or catch up with the West and after that Muslims generally started falling under Western domination. Attempts to modernize ended in failure either due to cultural conservatism or Western intervention (as in Egypt). Then the whole 20th century was just one fuck up after another as relations between the West and Islam grew worse and worse, with the Cold War again turning the Middle East into a battleground between the West and East, leading to the rise of Islamic extremism and all the bullshit we have today.

>India
I don't know, it's probably Britain's fault. Everything usually is. Also overpopulation.

>>402369
Apparently that I'm a dumbass who can't read. I could have sworn I had a map somewhere that showed non-Islamic Sub-Saharan Africa had less inbreeding. I'm probably just hallucinating it.

>>402411
Lad I'm pretty sure that the middle east is as fucked up as it is because of Islam and the Mongols. That seems to be the widely accepted hypothesis around here

>>402280
It's black now.

>>402499
>Islam
The Middle East didn't really fall behind until the mid 1500s or so, and they had already been Muslim for about a thousand years at that point. If Islam was what ruined them, they'd have gone to shit long before the 16th century.

>the Mongols
This is a better proposal, but Russia and China got fucked by the Mongols too, yet they more or less recovered.

>>402280
A mix between the culture of "have as much children that you can"(When you have lots of children, quite a few will be stupid) and arranged marriages(Those stupid offspring will have guaranteed sex so they can pass on their genes).

The fact was that we didn't help them improve and we left them in a shithole we created. Its not that they were black, its that we could've shared them our technology and help them better evolve their world, but all we did was use the continent as a place for slavery. Disgraceful .

>>402499
>Islam
There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid

>>402743
>A mix between the culture of "have as much children that you can"(When you have lots of children, quite a few will be stupid) and arranged marriages(Those stupid offspring will have guaranteed sex so they can pass on their genes).

That's how almost the entire world functioned until very recently, though.

>>402675
islam was riding high off stolen roman culture and technology and once the usual schisms and heresies started propping up they were unable to weather the storm like the west did during the reformation and crumbled from within. the mongols just delivered the coup de grace with baghdad.

shia vs sunni has ruined islam far worse than any westerner or horselord

>>402280
evolution

>>402753
but why did we have good technology and not them?

>>402433
M8.
You should probably read it as
>No data collected

>>402753
It was a shit hole before hand.
We left them farms, cities and technology.

File: 1449724851049.jpg (9KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 480x360px

>>402986

>>403012
I'm pretty sure there were farms and cities in Africa before the colonial period

You know, historically speaking.

>>403036
...
Nothing to the effect of urbanized centers that we constructed.

>>402392
You can't eat diamonds.

I had the entire thing explained and deleted it to fix a mistake and my clipboard didn't fucking copy it...

Basically during the ice the northern hemisphere was barren, humans there had to be inventive and think beyond the day to survive. This made for some very competitive evolution. In the southern hemisphere during that time it was more temperate, vast food forests grew and megafauna roamed. One could wake up, eat, fuck, and repeat with little effort or competition. Evolution simply did not take place.

Once the ice age died down the humans in the north didn't have to strive just in order to survive. More free time meant more time to think and invent, not just more efficient weapons and tools but other things as well. The ones that were more intelligent were able to acquire more resources and thus more women, so the smart bred more and evolution still continued. In the south it remained the same, only quite recently has the climate changed enough for the food to die off (though you can still find megafauna and jungles in some areas). This means they're at a crux of evolution. The weak are just now dying off and the crafty are starting to succeed.

I made another point about how sending aid only hurts them because it allows the less inventive to survive. We have to let evolution take it'd natural course or we're doing humankind a disservice by stunting its growth. We had to go through the crucible and it only made us stronger, its only fair to allow them to evolve too.

>>403081
>Basically during the ice the northern hemisphere was barren, humans there had to be inventive and think beyond the day to survive. This made for some very competitive evolution. In the southern hemisphere during that time it was more temperate, vast food forests grew and megafauna roamed. One could wake up, eat, fuck, and repeat with little effort or competition. Evolution simply did not take place.

>Evolution simply did not take place.

Nigga wut

This much ignorance, Do you understand what droughts and natural population cycles are? the Fact that every continent other than Antarctica had large megafauna extinctions, apart from Africa (the continent in which native species have had the greatest time to adapt to human populations)

>The weak are just now dying off and the crafty are starting to succeed.

You do know that sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies are a major form of parasitic evolutionary strategy?

>>403093
Next you'll call me problematic.

Yes minor things influence evolution as much as major things, that's what your autism was trying to convey right? There's no content in your post just random fragments of ideas. Explain.

>>403105
The explanation is that i'm a little drunk, but you are massively simplifying your points ignoring many other factors,

>Evolution simply did not take place.

This statement in particular is completely fictitious

>>403081
Yeah, Africa was a fucking paradise during the Ice Age. Just look at how beautiful and lush it was. Europe on the other hand was a barren wasteland where only the best cave painters could survive. And of course absolutely nothing existed in between these two extremes, that would just be crazy.

File: Ice Age Africa.jpg (49KB, 423x526px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 423x526px

>>403127

File: mormont.jpg (15KB, 300x309px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 300x309px

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa

>>402813

please die

>>403042
No, actually there were semi-advanced civilizations that while not as advanced as european cities at the time, were better than colonial cities.

Plus by that time development was young in africa. People got to them at a bad time.

>>403130
What is that map meant to show? Also Ice age Europe and 'Steppe' habitat in general was home to large populations of ice age megafauna, European hunter gatherers experienced some of the better possible ecosystems during the palaeolithic

>>402499
I'd throw in Climate change. Not just Anthropogenic Climate Change, but long term desertification of the region.

File: 1412974688906.png (108KB, 400x381px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 400x381px

ITT: High level discourse between acclaimed historians, geneticists, and climataologists

>>403121
I read over it and that was the only line I wanted to rectify. Obviously it occurred, but my language was too absolute. It should read
>Evolution simply did not occur as vigorously as it did in the north

It's a simple explanation but its theorized by many and has logical backing. If you take Africa's societies, even the ones that had influence from Egypt, even the ones that had influence from colonists, even the ones that have influence from the global society today... They're not getting up to par, even when they're forced to civilize they can't. Compare that with say Germans who went from living in huts to building castles just from a couple hundred years of influence from the Romans. They were craftier, more adaptive. That's how they survived the ice age.

File: traditional_inuit_seal_hunter_in_popular_diets.jpg (27KB, 288x476px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 288x476px

>>403153
Ah.

Which explains the incredible development of the Inuit people.

>>403145
>What is that map meant to show?
That Africa was an arid shithole during the Ice Age, not some lush paradise. And yeah, I agree with what you're saying.

Maybe if that retard had any knowledge of prehistory he'd know that the world's first agriculture and monumental architecture emerged in what was probably the most naturally abundant environment on the entire planet.

>>403145
>What is that map meant to show?
Africa is dry as fuck with a regular coastline, plagued by the tsetse fly and mosquito, and half the year there's no water.

FFS without the southeast asian crops and new world crops the population of africa would have remained drastically smaller.

>>403153
So why did the Germans accomplish absolutely nothing before the Romans civilized them? Why did Europeans in general accomplish nothing before agriculture and civilization were introduced from the Middle East? Why did the first civilizations emerge in the Middle East and not in northern Europe?

File: c051905e5a84f72eff90681714fd242a.jpg (75KB, 620x418px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 620x418px

>>403153
>Germans who went from living in huts to building castles just from a couple hundred years of influence from the Romans. They were craftier, more adaptive. That's how they survived the ice age.

So your saying it was due to the Romans that the Germans were able to do this, something they were seemingly incapable in discovering independently?

Also see>>403145
Europe from archaeological evidence seems to be a productive habitats, cave painting, enough mammoths to literally build houses out of them

>pic related

A reconstruction of the Mezhyrich site in Ukraine

>>403169
>>403172
I don't know. You're assuming I'm some German/white supreme, I merely used them because they were a good example, the fact that a couple of you so quickly jumped on it shows your bias. I include asians with "northern hemisphere people" so I'm not a raciss white supreme whopper.

I'm saying the Germans/guals/celts had very little that could be called civilization up until some exposure to Roman civilization. Africans still have very little that can be remotely compared to civilization despite ages of exposure, help, and even force.

>>403158
You don't know the timeline, they migrated there after. Same with "native" migrants in North America.

>>403198
>I don't know. You're assuming I'm some German/white supreme, I merely used them because they were a good example, the fact that a couple of you so quickly jumped on it shows your bias

Never claimed you were a German/white supremacist, not sure why your so quick to be on he defensive about this, and I only used the Germans because it was the example you used, not jumping on it quickly at all.

and Germans had metallurgy, agriculture introduced from the middle east etc prior to the romans, but it only seems to have progressed after Roman involvement.

File: Autism.png (4MB, 1307x3639px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 1307x3639px

>>403198
>Africans still have very little that can be remotely compared to civilization despite ages of exposure, help, and even force.
You know fuck-all about African history or prehistory then. What 'exposure' and 'help' are you talking about, and how extensive do you think it was? If you knew anything about the continent, you'd know that those areas the strong exposure to Eurasian civilization did develop civilization. You'd also know that civilization emerged in Nigeria without any Eurasian exposure.

>>403201
What? are you actually suggesting the Soultrean hypothesis, or the multiple waves of settlers from Siberia

>>403221
Nice shit sculptures. So civilize. Many culture.

Why don't you complain about Europeans some more while using several of their inventions to do so.

>>402324
A miserable pile of white people

>>403293
Pathetic.

Try a little harder next time and maybe someone will take you seriously.

I know nothing about African history but I got a question.
When people defend Africa, why do they always use examples like Timbuktu mosque as an example for African building, the pictures I see of Ethiopian buildings like churches are far more impressive? They where built by blacks right?

>>403320
Ethiopians aren't black enough.

>>403327
Really? Is that why?

>>403327
While they are Saharan, people like to use their contact with eurasia as evidence that those cultures did it.

Noone can say timbuktu mosques weren't examples of african buildings so it averts that criticism.

>>403328
Pretty much. Ethiopians are about half way between Arabs and Nilotics, which means they don't count as far as /pol/ is concerned.

To be honest, I'm glad. It means you can actually talk about Ethiopian history on its own without it being used to push one ideology or the other.

>>403334
So who built those cool buildings in Ethiopia then?

>>403339
Ethopians. You just can't use that in an argument with /pol/ because they will have predictable responses.

>>403334
The Malian mosques are a pretty shitty example though. The only impressive one was rebuilt in the colonial period. Ashanti architecture is more impressive I think.

>>403339
Ethiopians.

>>403350
But /pol/ won't take it because they're not black enough? Rather than the more logical response,the fact that they weren't as isolated as the rest of Africa?

>>403355
Usually. Alternatively, they might try to say that everything there was built by Arabs. That's a favourite of theirs.

>>403350
I'm generally not super impressed by african architecture in a really objective way. You can say, oh, they had less development, but it doesn't make it anywhere near a lot of european architecture. Its more to appreciate than really look at and say "wow, that's incredible they did that"! Its just a "they had less time to develop and were chugging along".

>Ashanti architecture
Looks pleasant and functional. Comfy tier.

>>403361
I don't plan in getting arguments on a topic I know nothing about,but what proof is there that it was built by blacks not Arabs?

>>403363
Yeah, I agree. The problem is that people expect Africa to be just as developed as the rest of the world despite a much shorter and more isolated development. Stormfags think that if they aren't as impressive as Europe, it just means they're shit, while on the other hand Afrocentrists try to pretend that Africa really was as great as Europe. Neither side really cares about history, they're just pushing an ideology.

>>403370
The fact that they're in Ethiopia and built in a distinct Ethiopian style. They look nothing like Arabic architecture and there's no evidence for Arab involvement.

We know that ancient Ethiopians were black because they willingly adopted the name "Ethiopians", which literally means 'black-faced people'. DNA studies have shown that there was no significant migration from Arabia to Ethiopia since the neolithic.

>>403376
Ideology has nothing to do with poopoo huts being incomparable to cathedrals.

>>403370
I'm not super familiar on this, I'll defer. All I know is that its usually considered the ethopians. I don't know why.

Generally I'd ask you in response, what proof is it being built by arabs not blacks?

Personal guess is because they had considerable contact with eurasia their development was longer and more fruitful with more spreading of ideas. This made them develop further along than other sub-Saharan states. Just a guess.

>>403387
but it does compare to european settlements far before cathedrals, which is where they should be compared. Which I think is what we made pretty clear.

>>403387
You didn't understand a word I wrote, did you?

You're really pathetic. Can't even understand the most basic of reasoning, can you?

>>403385
>>403389
Thanks. What about South American empires, they where isolated much like west Africa and build some crazy civilisations.

Okay I have a personal theory/idea, probably retarded and stupid but here goes - Europe had an easier time building nice houses/architecture because of the trees in Europe. The trees in Europe are often trees such as pine, normally very straight and parallel, easily modded to fit specific building styles. Africa had shitty ass bush/jungle trees so they built their houses out of mud and leaves.

File: DEFAP_CMPFGB-JB046_P.jpg (342KB, 1024x654px) Image search: [Google]

342KB, 1024x654px

>>403401
>What about South American empires, they where isolated much like west Africa and build some crazy civilisations.
Agriculture was much older there, so civilization arose earlier and had a lot more time to develop. It didn't develop faster than Africa, just earlier.

As for the stuff about trees, it doesn't really make sense. European architecture is mostly stone, and anyway a lack of good trees doesn't impede architecture; just look at Egypt. Besides, African trees are perfectly good for building with, especially in the forest regions.

White colonialism. If you deny this, literally fuck off back to /pol/ you ignorant fuck.

>>403422
What bout islamic

>>403442
Irrelevant. Stop trying to derail.

>>403444
It is relevant tho.. Islamic colonialism effected Africa too

File: Bait.png (181KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 600x600px

>>403422
>>403444
You're getting desperate.

>>402339
Holy shit arabia wtf, is that why you have keep your women hidden?

Europe, Arabs, Kurds and Turks.

>>402280
post colonialism
>not enough focus on education
>badly drawn borders would likely be a lot more countries if they were drawn correctly to include ethnicities and cultures in larger countries creating secretarian tension
>cold war realpolitik propped up dictators and inflamed tensions
>allowing international corporations to extract resources without proper compensation and corrupting nations
>foreign aid programs using a poor strategy

>>402392
You just answered your own question.

Resource abundance = no incentive to form civilization

File: brain_no_work.gif (538KB, 261x200px) Image search: [Google]

538KB, 261x200px

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid

Islam tbqh

File: I'm getting sick of this shit, why do I even bother comming here, I'm sure even reddit have better game discussions.jpg (20KB, 306x306px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 306x306px

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid

The shit I read on this fucking board sometimes.

How do you even get to this position? Lack of knowledge about religion in Africa? Someone once told you that the Muslim countries in Africa aren't "real" Muslims? Countries north of Tanzania aren't really part of africa?

>>403974
Are you sure? Most resistence to colonialism in the Horn and North Africa was led entirely by Muslims. The Mahdi, etc.

Colonialism was a valiant and noble attempt to bring the world into the age of enlightenment. If anything, the sociopathic ideology would have been to let the rest world wallow in its own arrogance and filth while Europe and the Orient flourished.

>>403987
>Islam isn't to blame because it resisted the thing I blame
Sound logic right there buddy.

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid
Fuckin' lel

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid
Get off /his/ now

Yesterday someone in a religion thread asked "Could God take a shit so big even he couldn't clean it up?"

Apparently yes.

>>403221
>WE
>WUZ
>KINGS
how much autism do you have?
North Africans and SSA are completely different.

>>403385
>>403401
>>403410
Literally lying through your goddamn teeth.
They are an Afro-Asiatic group with heavy semetic influence colonized during the neolithic era. This shit is on wikipedia.
You don't have to lie to "combat /pol/" like some autist.

File: tumblr_inline_nyc564wuR11rgimst_400.png (158KB, 254x246px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 254x246px

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid
This is the funniest thing I read all week

>>404771
>>404814
I really have no idea what you're trying to say, and I don't think you actually understood the posts you replied to since nothing you just said actually refutes them. You're basically just spouting non-sequiturs. I expect nothing else for /pol/, so I don't know why I'm surprised.

>>405271
Race doesn't really matter for SSA because of how genetically diverse they are.
But Ethiopians are Afro-Asiatics.
Not bantu.
You don't have to be "/pol/" to know this.

>>405302
Please point out the post the claimed Ethiopians were Bantu and not Afro-Asiatic.

File: silkroad.png (612KB, 850x568px) Image search: [Google]

612KB, 850x568px

>>402392
It was isolated geographically for thousands of years by the sahara desert, with the only points of entrance for trade being up the nile, red sea / off the horn of africa, and up around from the west.

So it didn't get to receive all the ideas and technologies that the rest of the old world traded with each other

>>402392
>plenty of resources

What resources? Everything that makes Africa valuable nowadays wasn't worth shit for most of mankind's history

File: Rhodesia__28_.jpg (664KB, 1435x925px) Image search: [Google]

664KB, 1435x925px

>>405317
Sorry m8.
I misread your first post.
Cheers

>>405371
Warm climate with lack of seasons, plenty of resources for agriculture... M8 Africa isn't a barren wasteland.
The bantu even had iron tools

Colonialism and the cold war.

>>405381
The parts that saw the rise of civilizations and empires are mostly in the sabanah. That's the closer you get to barren wasteland without getting into the desert.

>>405392
>colonialism
It was a shit hole before hand.
I doubt they would be better off without it.
>>405395
I don't understand

File: Cropland biome probability map.png (2MB, 1920x1440px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1440px

>>405381
Most of Africa is shit for agriculture. Half the continent is covered in desert and jungle and tsetse flies are everywhere. The only good Sub-Saharan land is in the west, where civilization did emerge, and the highland Bantu areas where agriculture didn't arrive until 500 BC - 300 AD.

File: jungle fever.jpg (79KB, 620x350px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 620x350px

>>402280
>HEY BRO THAT'S A NICE CONTINENT YOU HAVE THERE MIND IF I TAKE A LOOK?
>YOU KNOW, JUST FOR JOKES HAHA

>>405402
Cold war is a little easier. Unmoderated amount of weapons and even training went into peasants when the police state was executed for a state of war. The U.S. fed over 4x as many weapons as normal into the middle east near the end of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan when they asked for peace talks because fuck communism, and they also honored the sovereignty of places like Iraq which had shit tier clay and shit dichotomies such as sunni/muslim because they where capitalist.

Honestly the clay lines in the middle east are shit tier and we should've not been so desperate to name sovereign nations clay lines permanent to get them into N.A.T.O.

>>405406
Aksum collapsed because it's agricultural capacity took a hit due to overuse (similar to the fertile crescent) of the soil as well as climate fucking shit up.

This is on top of climate change fucking shit up

>>405381
Disease, famines, floods,tsetse flies, the fact that Africa has been heavily underpopulated which made getting a hold of people pretty hard since the people are so few but land so abundant (regardless of the quality of said land). The kingdom of Zimbabwe died because the neighboring up and coming kingdom was more powerful and richer so people just up and left and the place died because no people=no taxes and no taxes means no military force.

>>405317
Afro-Asiatic is a language group, so is Bantu.

>>405524
Aksum never really collapsed though. The city itself was mostly abandoned, which might have been due partially to degrading agriculture (but also due to declining trade), but the kingdom itself never actually ended. Its power certainly declined, but even in the darkest part of its history they were fairly prosperous. There was no break between the Aksumite and later Ethiopian state.

Ethiopia's agriculture is fundamentally different to Sub-Saharan Africa though, since it's derived from Eurasia and is suitable fro Eurasian crops (though native crops were also domesticated).

>>402280
Europe intervened before the small ethnic groups coalesced into bigger ones, creating a permanently Balkanized continent

File: Gunpowder Empires.jpg (523KB, 1335x799px) Image search: [Google]

523KB, 1335x799px

>>402948
>The mongols just delivered the coup de grace with baghdad.
Fantastic theory.

Now explain the second Islamic Golden age that was the Gunpowder Empires of the 1500's.

>I swear to god no matter how much I explain how the Mongols didn't actually end Islam's high times someone still spouts that retarded Siege of Baghdad Meme.

File: ayylmao.jpg (27KB, 398x389px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 398x389px

>>402813
>There aren't even any Muslim countries in Africa you fucking mongoloid
American education in a nutshell.

>>402986
Read Guns, Germs, and Steel

>>402813

>what is Morocco
>what is Egypt
>what is Algeria
>what is Tunis
>what is Libya
>what is Somalia
>what is Sudan
>what is Mali
>what is Mauretania

>>405744
Get the fuck out of here Jared Diamond

>>405744
MUH ZEEBRAS
MUH LATITUDE

>>402280
They always blamed others for their mistakes.

>>405744
HOW COM DE WHIT MON AVE MOHH CARGO

>>403221
This image sums it up quite nicely.

Agriculture is the cornerstone of civilization; when it shows up in an area, technologically complex civilization slowly starts to develop, at a pace about even regardless of culture or location. But until that initial spark of agriculture is actually lit, society will remain at the "mud-hut" level indefinitely.

Sub-Saharan Africa (both east and west portions) got the Mesopotamian agriculture spark much later than everyone else because their comparative isolation, so by the time they were on the early portion of the usual development curve everyone else was way ahead.

>>402813
Gambia literally declared itself an Islamic state today