Tell me about fascist Italy. Why did it preform so poorly? Was

>>382526
Italians can't warfare.

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>>382555
*ahem*

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Southern Italy was semi-feudal, to the point where nobles would stiill go out and collect day-to-day laborers for their fiefs, like 200 years ago.

Mussolini thought that Hitler was going to declare war later, and Italian re-armament was doing too well.

Mussolini's economic policies were pretty shit. For instance, he strove for autarky in his country. So during the "War on Grain", Italian grain production skyrocketed. At the expense of all other crops.

>>382580
Italians aren't roman, romans haven't existed in Italy since the Gothic, Vandal, Byzantine, Arab, and Lombard conquests which mongrelized their genes to become the laughing stock of Europe

>>382596
What was the war on grain?

>>382598

They inherited some inferior Germanic genes, but that not their fault.

>>382598
You're right, the people who inhabited the Italian peninsula in Roman times got back on their spaceships and returned to their home planet.

>>382613
No, they were raped by Germans, Greeks, and Dindus, didn't you read?

>>382608

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Grain

Fascist policies that existed purely for propaganda/ideological purposes.

>>382526
>Why did it preform so poorly?
Didn't have the resources to face a military campain of any kind at that point in history.

>>382526
Maybe because fascism couldn't logically work ? Because any claim that fascism could work is a logical fallacy ?

>>382629
Would you care to elaborate why fascism could not work?

Italy sucked in 1921, sucked under Mussolini, sucks today. It is simply their way of being.

>>382629
You provide a critique of the Fascist economic policies? I'm genuinely curious. I've seen tons of legitimate criticisms of Communism, but none for Fascism. Not "hurr hurr he was a racist so he was dumb", but what did he actually do wrong?

>>382637
I should change my question to "What is actually wrong with Fascism that wasn't caused by Mussolini's idiocy (IE, not telling Hitler to stuff it and stick with the original invasion timetable)"

>>382619
The policy itself seems fine, but the implementation sucked. (subsidizing only grain production instead of general agriculture meant only changing the focus)

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>>382618
>Greeks
Never really controlled much of Ital for that long outside of a few cities, even then just as a ruling class.
>Dindus
Who? The Arabs only ever controlled the island of Sicily for a couple hundred years, even then only as the ruling class. You've been watching too many Tarantino films.
>Germans
You might have a point here, as various germanic tribes settled in the peninsula and probably intermarried, but do you have any proof that this fundamentally altered Italy's ethnic composition?

I'm not saying Italians today aren't the product of many waves of invasion and different ethnic groups, but saying there's absolutely no link between the Romans and modern Italians just strikes me as silly.

>>382654
The link between Romans and modern Italians is weak enough that it barely exists, either way they fail to live up to any of their history

Fascism is an inherently flawed system of Government. It's solely reactionary, and relies entirely on a persistent outside threat in order to maintain its legitimacy, while having no real cohesive economic philosophy.

>>382684
Fascism is the opposite of reactionary.

>>382684
It is not reactionary, tho. And it doesn't need outside threats.

>>382580
Latins ! = Italics

>>382678
>The link between Romans and modern Italians is weak enough that it barely exists,
Any source on that?

How would the war be different if they never joined the Axis? Would D-Day become impossible due to all the additional troops the Germans could use for garrison, would they have been able to take Moscow in 1941?

>>383028
DDay wasn't that pivotal, in fact it was sort of a waste of resources for the Germans.

>>382526
Mussolini was incompetent in a ton of fields, and he refused to hear the opinions of the experts. A court of sycophants is rarely a good thing.

Economic policies were mediocre (or terrible, like "Lira Quota 90"), and military matters/foreign policy disastrous. He managed to stay in power thanks to a good propaganda machine, and sheer inertia.

In a different world where he managed to stay out of the war, he would propably end up like Franco: a dictator useful for Commie contaiment at the lead of a economically/culturally depressed country. But who knows.

I'm rather surprised that /his/ knows so little about good old Benito. He's far more of an archetype of the Fascist Dictator than the Austrian dude.

Rome was an idea, a culture, a social system, not an ethnicity. Very early on I suppose, like prior to the conquest of Latium, it was defined entirely by ethnic citizens of Rome. As time went on, there were Romanized Gauls who were as Roman as any guy born in Rome. And that is true of any part of the empire. That is precisely why their value and cultural influence persists to the modern day, even though the Romans themselves are long gone.

So saying Italy sucks because there are no genetically pure citizens of the ancient Roman city left is nonsense. Italy sucks for other reasons.

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>>382580
>Romans
>at all like modern Italians
The only connection is that they lived in roughly the same region

>>383854
>I'm rather surprised that /his/ knows so little about good old Benito.
Most /his/ users don't know much about history other than what they've gathered from /pol/ and /int/ memes or looking over Wikipedia articles.

>>382631
>>382637
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iC6BhSO3Mw
It can work, don't listen to this liberal's version of it. Fascism was an economic model that worked in more nations than just Italy.

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>>382613
People on the internet have this weird idea that everytime a region gets conquered the new rulers rape all the women and genocide the men.

>>382684
>relies entirely on a persistent outside threat in order to maintain its legitimacy
No more than Communism relies on the persistent threat of the capitalists and burgeoise keeping the worker down, nor more than modern-day America relies on some external threat to finance its war-based economy, be it Communism, Islam or others.

> no real cohesive economic philosophy.
Fascism is flexible, pretty much every fascist leader/thinker has agreed on this. What might work for Germany might not work for Argentina or for Syria.

>>382598
>he doesn't realize that we have the technology to test people's DNA

>>382596
>>382619
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Grain
The english article doesn't mention the push for machines and that a lot of crops were replaced with higher-yielding hybrids.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareno_Strampelli

Italy gets invaded
how many people would have to invade to make any kind of impact on the local genetics? They would have knock up a majority of the females and then kill all the native males so they couldn't breed with females. How large were these invasion forces?

Most people spent their entire lives in small villages , its not like people travelled around that much.

Even after a few generations the "invader" DNA would be almost down to a small percentage.

Most people who push this meme are Nordists who hate the idea that Swarthy Southern Europeans did more in one city then their entire ethnic group had done in a thousand years.

>mmmmmuh blonde hair
literally grow up

>>382684
>Communist detected

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>>384087
>roughly the same region

>>383028
As bad as the Italians were, certainly worse for the Germans. They have ZERO chance to even threaten the British Empire, so it becomes an even more clear cut case of German can't do fucking ANYTHING in this war. British dick around with more direct ways of fucking with Germany. Probably an invasion of Norway is contemplated, possibly launched in 1941.

Germans lose vast amounts of influence on the continent, because Italy at least looks strong on paper, and the little states don't have to deal with the fact that Germany is the only game in town. At the very least, Bulgaria stays out of the war, because of Russophilic tendencies. So they probably need to keep at least one eye on this Italy, Yugoslav neutral block that that might decide to start shit if things go south.

D-Day probably goes worse, because it's probably coming earlier and harder, from all the stuff that's freed up in the Mediterranean theater.

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>>387334

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>>382684
>Reddit thinks it knows what the word reactionary means
Pic related.

>>382526
I heard that his generals were bootlickers and yes-men, rather than competent people. They should have just given their armies for Rommel to command..

>>384087
Northern Italy still has the highest average IQ of all Europeans. 106-108, depending on year.

>>387764

Some Italians generals were almost competent (Messe is a good example, and Giulio Valerio Borghese was a peculiar and skilled man despite his political beliefs) but most of them were indeed corrupt " bootlickers". By reading the transcripts of the discussions between them and "Il Duce" you have the distinct impression that no one, bar in the most dire situation, had the guts to tell him the truth. Or in the case they did, the need to be a slave to the propaganda machine often led to tragic consequences.

If you want a golden example of "poor planning and everyone being criminally subservient", the Invasion of Greece is excellent. An example of Mussolini pushing for insane operations despite the counsel of half-competent people is the invasion of Egypt.

Internal (and "personal" politics) in Fascist Italy are rather interesting. I don't know if there are transcripts in English, though.

>>387731
>Implying the Anatolian genepool has significantly changed over the past millenia
>implying that the handful of ruling class turkic nomads had any significant impact on the Turkish genepool
>implying that modern Turks and Greeks differ that much genetically

The kind of fascism that Mussolini led in Italy wasn't projected into modernity, but was rather looking nostalgically to the past. It's true that fascism was at some points a bourgeois movement (and that's why it was able to gain popularity in the cities in northern Italy, Milan, Bologna, Ferrara, Mantova), but nothing was done to truly promote the industry like Stalin or Hitler did. It was an rural dictatorship, and that's proven by the many interventions he did mainly to improve the life of the farmers. It was even the image he wanted to give, by letting himself be photographed while working with the peasants in the reclaim of the Pontine Marshes.
It wasn't his fault per se, Italy was in that kind of state with very little industry compared to other European countries before, but he could have managed it differently.

>>387862
>no one, bar in the most dire situation, had the guts to tell him the truth.

This is true. There are even stories of the aviation moving the few airplanes Italy had to the military airport Mussolini was visiting, following him around the country. And similar facts are why Italy was great and strong to his view.

>>387905
Do you have proofs to back this up?

>>388957
They look the same and the haplogroups are similar.