If Holocaust denier believe that something that happend only

>>3390814
You mean, average garden variety holocaust denier believes in conspiracy theories and doesn't trust anything? Gee whiz, you might be on to something there...

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>>3390814
I mean if millions of people saw it and survived its like it never happened.

>>3390814
>Wouldn't it be logical to assume that the rest of history is completely fabricated, aswell?

Provided there are motives
Motive for the Holohoax is Israel

>>3390814
I personally believe that (((history))) is a jewish plot to destroy the white race through race mixing.

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>>3390872
>I personally believe that (((history))) is a jewish plot to destroy the white race through race mixing.
black race, you mean?

>>3390814
>as it is taught at schools
What is taught at school in history classes is always questionable. Depending on the countries you will have very different versions of the same event, or some event will be taught and some other will not. It seems natural.
The "problem" with the holothing is that there's a visible pressure about it to be taught everywhere and in the same manner. I was almost not taught anything about the whys and wherefores of Pearl Harbor, and I had to swallow hours about the supposed* fate of some civilians. No wonder it provoques reactions afterwards.
*I say "supposed" because at that time I was taught that 8 million people were gased and incinerated in death camps, which is not only inaccurate but is also still a topic of speculation = we don't know...

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>>3390814
>Wouldn't it be logical to assume that the rest of history is completely fabricated, aswell?

While I think Holocaust denial is stupid (but people should still be allowed to question certain aspects), it seem there's surprisingly little effort in criticizing the rest of history.
There's a huge part of history were there's litlle or no records, only reconstructions based on what was written centuries latter.
Most alleged ancient and medieval texts are copies of copies of copies. Most items in museums are replicas.
I would be surprised if history really is the way it's taught currently.

>>3390814
Don't underestimate the power of the Jews.

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>>3390814

holocaust deniers are emotionally driven fanatics, so there is no actual logic to their conspiracy theory. Or, they know it happened, but choose to lie about it in order to advance neo-nazism, which is the entire basis of holocaust denial. Islamic radicals who hate jews and Israel also latch onto it as well

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>>3390814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXcge5YUPLo
http://www.revisedhistory.org/investigation-historical-dating.htm#

>>3390814
holocaust deniers see a motivation for lying and examples of it. Myself i just want to forget the whole thing as it has clearly been fabricated to some extent but at the same time it has to be true to some extent.

Theory i like the most is that since concentration camps were founded at the same time as operation barbarossa was executed, the lebenraum was supposed to be for jews segregated(?eristää?) from germany.

War turns bad and you cant afford feeding thousands of jews so you execute/starve them to death rather than risk them joining resistance groups (yes there were many and they were a real problem) Also criminals and rebels were sent to concentration camps so i wonder many testimonies are speaking of them being executed. I have to point out that many jews survived the holocaust. and i am not talking about the most recent ones in the camps, there probably even weren't any new ones at the camp when they were liberated by us & ussr. All pictures show skinny underfed people (this might be propaganda cherrypicking but i dont think so) turning into something like that takes time and still some food as you would die in a week without any food still looking somewhat like you started like and in 3 days without water i think. This alone proves that as 'evil' nazis were, they were trying to keep the jews alive even in the end without many/any resources. And you tell me they kept them alive just to kill them? Even if they knew they were going to get 'liberated' soon?

and what comes to all other history yes in could have been fabricated also as everybody has heard the phrase 'victors write the history'. but other than that there isn't many examples or motivations for lying.

>>3391181
>This alone proves that as 'evil' nazis were, they were trying to keep the jews alive even in the end without many/any resources. And you tell me they kept them alive just to kill them?

You may be right, but another theory is they intended to exterminate them by working them to death, keeping them on a starvation ration to extract as much use from them as possible.

>>3391056
That's an umbrella pine cone not a pineapple.

>>3390814
You're talking about Jews. They're deceptive and self-deceptive enough to claim that every people who they come into contact with has an anti-Semitism problem.

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>>3391181
>>3391204
>"...the greater the number of Jews liquidated, the more consolidated will the situation in Europe be after this war."-Mar 6, 1942

>"The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor."-Mar 27, 1942

>""Short shrift is made of the Jews in all eastern occupied areas. Tens of thousands of them are liquidated."-april 29,1942

>"At bottom, however, I believe both the English and the Americans are happy that we are exterminating the Jewish riff-raff."-Dec 13, 1942

>"We are now definitely pushing the Jews out of Berlin. ... On the Jewish question, especially, we have taken a position from which there is no escape."-March 2, 1943

>"[Hitler] approved of my measures and specifically ordered me to make Berlin entirely free of Jews."-March 9, 1943

>"There is therefore no other recourse left for modern nations except to exterminate the Jew...."-may 13, 1943

what did he mean by this?

>>3391056
A fair point. The archeological narrative constantly veers in wild directions as they discover the next disparate piece of evidence.

>>3391022
I had to learn about the holocaust in an English unit called "History and Memory" where we had to read a torturously bad, non-linear series of holocaust personal family investigation vignettes by a neurotic Jew with the takeaway being that even if memories don't line up with each other or history, they're true.

>>3391252
I mean, it sounds like an antisemitic parody, but it's true. We read bad but critically praised postmodern experimental fiction by a Jew about the holocaust where the conclusion is that you have to believe the Jews. It was also mandatory reading across the state, so he would have made tens of thousands a year at least off it.

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>>3391204
>>3391181
>"I also want to talk to you, quite frankly, on a very grave matter. Among ourselves it should be mentioned quite frankly, and yet we will never speak of it publicly. Just as we did not hesitate on June 30th, 1934 to do the duty we were bidden, and stand comrades who had lapsed, up against the wall and shoot them, so we have never spoken about it and will never [p. 65] speak of it. It was that tact which is a matter of course and which I am glad to say, is inherent in us, that made us never discuss it among ourselves, never to speak of it. It appalled everyone, and yet everyone was certain that he would do it the next time if such orders are issued and if it is necessary. I mean the clearing out of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about - "The Jewish race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite clear, it's in our program - elimination of the Jews, and we're doing it, exterminating them." And then they come, 80 million worthy Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of all those who talk this way has witnessed it, not one of them has been through it. Most of you must know what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500 or 1000. To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows, that is what has made us hard. This is a page of glory in our history which has never been written and is never to be [p. 66] written, for we know how difficult we should have made it for ourselves, if - with the bombing raids, the burdens and the deprivations of war - we still had Jews today in every town as secret saboteurs, agitators and trouble-mongers. We would now probably have reached the 1916/17 stage when the Jews were still in the German national body."-Posen Speech. Oct 4, 1943

what did he mean by this?

>>3391244
Was he writing liquidate, does that mean the same thing in German as in English and is the diary verified/could it have been tinkered with by soviets?

>>3390814
its pretty amazing how so many people survived the death camps for years on end

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>>3391181
>>3391204
>"If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"-Jan 31, 1939

>"And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews."-Jan 30, 1942

what did he mean by this?

>>3391204
Lets be honest here. What work possibly they could have been doing that would have been profitable? Then again all pictures show work-aged men. Now to think i've never heard of any statement of them working on anything but jew lampshades. What was their job?

>>3391259
Now that I think of it, we also learned the Nazi lampshade line from a Sylvia Plath in English, which was presented as fact. The history teacher also told us that Hitler was the most evil man in history, despite him obviously being less malevolent and causing less suffering than others in history.

>>3391296

>guy who caused the bloodiest war in human history isnt really that bad!

you guys really are something else lol

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>>3391286

>>3391308
>caused
Hol up, Britain had something to do with that.
Mao and Stalin had massive death tolls too.

>>3391308
portonially speaking it wasn't. There have been 'world wars' where a bigger portion of humankind died fighting each other.

also this:
>>3391311

>war happened because this one guy did this.

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>>3391309

>>3391313
>There have been 'world wars'

no there wasnt. WW2 is the bloodiest war in human history

>>3391311
>Hol up, Britain had something to do with that.

No they didnt. Hitler started the war. Why do you choose to lie and draw the line at britain as if Hitler didnt just invade Poland?

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>>3391320

>>3391320
Britain and France turned a petty territorial dispute between two neighbouring countries into a world war

>>3391309
>Go to Der Spiegel 1992
>Can't find that source, even in German
Hmmmmmm
http://www.spiegel.de/suche/index.html?suchbegriff=James+Baker+Hitler&suchzeitraum=1995&toDate=31.12.1994
Be my guest if you wanna look up yourself.

>>3391327
>>3391328

Hitler started the war when he invaded Poland, stop choosing to be retarded

>>3391309

>DUDE FAKE QUOTES LMAO

>>3391349
You said it. It's not hard to fake quotes.

>>3391264
Oh the "liquidate" here clearly means "make sure they live in comfort"
>"The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor."-Mar 27, 1942

>>3391359

>DUDE I GOT CAUGHT LYING TO PROVE MY POINT WHICH IS SOMEHOW A POINT FOR ME!

>>3391320
I more meant that cucking the German old conservative elite and plunging Germany into hell meant that zee Germans would turn to someone more hardcoar and unwilling to capitulate than their prior elite who unquestionably did nothing wrong compared to the allies and still had Germany fucked for it. From my flimsy reading of history, I get the impression that hitler was an ambitious guy and may well have been scheming world domination (like Britain, America and the SU at the time).

>>3391385
Also when he invaded Poland he was reuniting the German people. What were parts of Germany doing inside Poland to begin with? Cockroach Britain.

>>3391370
I wasn't being smarmy, I'm genuinely curious on this source.

>>3391385
>>3391388

you are wrong though. Shitty neo-nazi infographs arent you "reading history" anon

>>3391392
I'm skeptical because ausrotten gets translated as exterminate in I think Himmler(?)'s speech to the ss. And that looks more to me as a non German speaker like root out.

>>3391394
Okay, where am I wrong?

>>3391392
>I'm genuinely curious on this source.

youre genuinely just some shitposting stormfag.

>HURR HE DINDU NUFFIN THE SOVIETS MADE IT ALL UP!

>>3391400

-hitler did nothing wrong
-hitler was no different in his ambitions of world domination like the US or Britain or the USSR
-hitler was invading poland to "reunite germans"
-general attitude that hitler dindu nuffin and it was britain that picked on them

you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are some 20 year old from /b/ who got sucked into stormfaggotry on /pol/

>>3391398
Pro-tip: That "ausrotten" thing is your typical disinformation.

In the context of Himmler's speach there is no possible alternative meaning.

>>3391388
>Also when he invaded Poland he was reuniting the German people
So instead of debating with the Poles like he "did" with the Czechs in the Munich agreement, he instead decided to offer an Ultimatum?

>>3391337
He started a singular war against poland. World war started when france and britain joined. hitler even tried to prevent bigger conflict by sending a peace treaty to the british.

>The full text of Hitler’s “Appeal for Peace and Sanity” speech, made before the Reichstag on July 19, 1940, following the fall of France. In that speech, Hitler once again offered unconditional peace to Britain. This speech was printed in English and dropped by the tens of thousands from German aircraft over Britain. Although nearly half the British cabinet wanted to take up his offer, Churchill’s warmongering put an end to this final offer of peace.

Operation barbarossa. Big operation, rusing desperately straight to the capital of strongest enemy. Im fairly confident after the fall of russia there would have been another peace offer for britain.

https://www.quora.com/Did-Hitler-try-to-make-peace-with-Churchill-several-times

>>3390814
Yes, remember the lamp shades, the soap, the electrocuted Jews, the drowned Jews, hundreds at a time, and also that 6 million Jews died and 5 million non-jews (can't have more non-jews die than jews). These were all presented as fact at one point or another. I wonder why so many people are skeptical of the official story.

>>3391388
Was he also reuniting the German people when he was given the Sudetenlands at the Munich conference (with French and British approval) only to annex the rest of the Czech state, despite it only having 5% German population, 6 months later?


>>3391422
Pro tip; google 'The Munich agreement" you dumb tard.

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>>3391422
>hitler even tried to prevent bigger conflict by sending a peace treaty to the british.


not this shit again.

HITLER STARTED THE WAR WHEN HE INVADED POLAND WITH THE SOVIET UNION. Theres no way for you to dance around this stormfag

>>3391422
You can't really trust Hitler's word when he decided to invade Denmark and Norway, then Yugoslavia. Last I checked Yugoslavia's population was less than 5% German.

>>3391432
>HITLER STARTED THE WAR WHEN HE INVADED POLAND WITH THE SOVIET UNION.

Nice cold war era propaganda you got there, m8. Soviet forces moved into Poland following Germany's invasion in an attempt to protect the Polish people from fascists, people executed at Katyn were in league in nazis and were sentenced to death for their crimes against Polish people.

>>3391432
geez what an idiot.

>>3391446
War was already ongoing and norway was giving germany resources. Also it was a strategic blockage for landtroops landing from atlantic sea. Soo... it wasn't for people..?

>>3391460
Nice falseflag/bait you got there there. Katyn massacre was German-Russian collaboration.

>>3391398
I just find this so laughable, you can only even begin to see this as a point if you are clueless. 1940s German isn't some esoteric lost language.

Thousands of German historians have studied the Holocaust, pretty much every single historian working in other languages that studies Nazi Germany and the Holocaust can speak German fluently, it's pretty much a prerequisite for the job. The idea of "hurr durr maybe they have mistranslated this and misunderstood it because that is what I read on Mongolian kitting site hurr" is beyond ridiculous.

>>3391460
>Soviet forces moved into Poland following Germany's invasion in an attempt to protect the Polish people from fascists, people executed at Katyn were in league in nazis and were sentenced to death for their crimes against Polish people.

(you)

>>3391432
>the punitive treaties against germany(which didn't even start the great war)
>treaties signed in good faith
pick one

>>3391467
>geez what an idiot.

gees what a none argument

>>3391308
Honestly people go really light on the USSR's role in starting WWII. Stalin's responsibility for the conflict is slightly smaller than that of Hitler.

Hitler is the drunk driver who runs over small children, Stalin is the guy who encouraged him to drink and drive and then lent the car.

>>3391460
Is this bait?

>>3391467
>War was already ongoing and norway was giving germany resources. Also it was a strategic blockage for landtroops landing from atlantic sea. Soo... it wasn't for people..?
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here for. the Qurora that anon posted says Hitler had no interest in controlling Non-German people. So why target Yugoslavia? Resources? Then why not go for the Chromium in Turkey, as well?

>>3391475
Argument was told already. You just said no and carried on with caps lock. Thats why you are an idiot.
see
>>3391327

>>3391474
You mean like the Anglo-German naval agreement which Germany signed in 1935 with the UK (Without even asking the French), despite it being literally contradictory with the Versailles, and then broke in april 1939? Or maybe the Munich agreement they signed in 1938 and then broke half a year later?

>>3391480
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Yugoslavia
They were enemies due to conflict with italy.

>>3391492

Again, this isnt an argument. Your point about "hitler wanted peace with britain!" is a bullshit lie you got called out on and all you can do is call everyone who actually knows history an idiot.

>>3391503
>Hitler then pressured Yugoslavia to join as well.
>Upon hearing news of the coup in Yugoslavia, Hitler called his military advisers to Berlin on 27 March. On the same day as the coup he issued Führer Directive 25 which called for Yugoslavia to be treated as a hostile state.[15] Hitler took the coup as a personal insult, and was so angered that he was determined, in his words, "to destroy Yugoslavia militarily and as a state" (Jugoslawien militärisch und als Staatsgebilde zu zerschlagen),[16] and to do so "without waiting for possible declarations of loyalty of the new government".[17]
So you didn't even read the article you shared? The article talks about Italy being pushed in by Greece, not Yugoslavia.

>>3391492
Not him, but your argument was "Britain should not intervene, when her allies are attacked and wait until Germans cut the whole salami of Europe". That's not very "rational" way of through.

>>3391320
>no there wasnt. WW2 is the bloodiest war in human history
>brainwashing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War
And probably many other .

>>3390814
Repeat after me. Anti-antisemitism does not need citations.

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>>3391460

Get on the helicopter

>>3391511
your point is a bullshit lie you are being called an idiot for a reason.

also bullshit lie isn't a valid counterargument if you didn't know already.

my argument is valid until you prove its not and you still havent.

>>3391530
"Only" 8 million people died in the thirty years way, as opposed to ~60 or so million in world war 2. Dunno if you're retarded, shitposting or both.

>>3391557
I proved its not valid, but you never replied to any of my posts so I'll ask you again. Explain to me what the Munich agreement was, what was its result and its aftermath.

I'll wait.

>>3391181

are you fucking retarded or something? konzentrationslager (arbeitslager) and vernichtungslager are not the same, it's 2 different concepts.

everyone who was somewhat able to work was put into an konzentrationslager and worked to fucking death. of course those people were fed, they were probably also treated because a disease outbreak would be bad for both inmates and guards/personnel. the reason jews were kept alive was slave labor. the jews that weren't able to work.. crippled, old, children, were killed instantly.

>>3391557
>my argument is valid until you prove its not and you still havent.

youre shitposting just like you faggots always do. Why do you think this dumb shit is going to trick people who actually know history?

>>3391571
shortly
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/munich-pact
>Munich Pact

noun

the pact signed by Great Britain, France, Italy, and Germany on September 29, 1938, by which the Sudetenland was ceded to Germany: often cited as an instance of unwise and unprincipled appeasement of an aggressive nation.

what about it?

Most of Holocaust "deniers" don't deny the Holocaust itself, but the 6000000 joos figure.
Of course there is always some old Stormfront farts who hate Jews and believe that Jesus hated Jews etc.
And yeah, like other Anons said, it's surprising how ideologically-undriven stuff gets questioned so little.

>>3391586
Do you have problems reading or did you just ignore the part of the question which you can't answer? The aftermath anon, what was the aftermath?

>>3391584
yes, but again, what was the job they were doing that would have been profitable compared to just killing? Didn't find anything specific after short googling and didn't really have interest since it wasn't my point in the first place

>>3391264

The systematic destruction of jews was called "Endlösung der Judenfrage", literally "Final Solution to the Jewish Question". Everything in nazi vernacular is code. Doubt the soviets had to tinker with it at all.

"Liquidate" in German is "liquidieren" (that's the infinitive). It's the exact same word with the same meaning, though I would say we use it more in context of, say, an assasination than mass murder. "Vernichten", "Ausrotten", "Tilgen" would be verbs that fit better (all those mean "exterminate" in English).

>>3391269

Almost no one survived the death camps, most survivors were in KZs (Konzentrationslager - forced labor camp)..

>>3391591
>Most of Holocaust "deniers" don't deny the Holocaust itself, but the 6000000 joos figure.
Incorrect, deniers deny both intent and scale. They are willing to acknowledge interment of Jews, but the resonsibility for deaths is either placed on allies or just handwaved away by saying "war is war".

>>3391601
You are making this hard for me goddamnit. why cant you just tell me?

czechs were annexed by poland hungary and germany later on?

>>3391477
No, that's a communist anon. As you can see, their intelligence is similar to fascists.

>>3391332

my fucking NIGGA; thats the first thing I did

why is it always fucking murricans that come up with the most retarded shit? I wonder if there are many German holocaust deniers on /pol/

>>3391627
Pretty much. This is a fun game, let's play on. By the way, I like how Germany was named last.

>"This is my last territorial demand in Europe"
This is a quote by a certain individual pertaining the Sudetenland. Can you guess who he was?

>>3391562
>what is proportionality?

"The reduction of population in the German states was typically 25% to 40%.[81] Some regions were affected much more than others.[82] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[83] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas, an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[84] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half."

You can bet some wars in ancient times were even more catastrophic. WW2 was not a picnic but given the world population it was certainly not the most devastating war.

>>3391634
countries were named in the timeframe they acted.

I guess it's supposed to be hitler's. Is there proof of it? :)

>>3391634
Who is Adolf Hitler for $500, Alex.

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>>3391633
I'm not even German, just know some basic German from studying it in school.
Also basic fact-checking is pretty much a neccessity now for me. I used to be a /pol/tard but then the retards showcased some photo that I was skeptical about so did some research. Turns out it was faked, tried explaining to the /pol/acks why it was wrong. Started claiming my citations/sources/authors are Jews.

>>3391398

ausrotten, vernichten, tilgen, ausmerzen, ausradieren.. they all mean the same goddamn thing: to genocide

>>3391649
>I guess it's supposed to be hitler's. Is there proof of it? :)
Just a public speech he made.

>>3391650
bingo

>>3391637
>MUH PROPORTIONALITY
Since when is "proportionality" the measure of something being bloodier than another thing? Is killing 20 people in a village of 100 more bloodier than killing 10 thousand people in a city of 100 thousand? What kind of logic is that?

Besides that, I'm going out on limb and straight up claiming that even proportionally world war 2 killed a higher % of the world population than did the 30 years war (which also lasted much longer)

>>3391699
I haven't been following this discussion, I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but you reminded me of a cool fact.

Although WW2 had some pretty staggeringly high casualty numbers, proportionally it was actually far less deadly than, say, the Napoleonic Wars. At least for soldiers. There were just so many people involved in logistics and rear-echelon jobs in WW2 that never saw combat that they water down the casualty numbers.

>>3391680
what did he mean by this?

>This is the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe, but it is a demand on which I will not yield.

>The hardest problem I found, my fellow citizens, was Polish-German relations. We faced the danger here of steering ourselves into, let us say, fanatical hysteria. The danger existed that in this case a conception like inherited enmity would gain possession of our peoples as well as the Polish people.

>We do not have to expect anything from each other. We recognize this. We are two peoples. They shall live. One cannot annihilate the other. I recognize this and we must see it: A State of 33,000,000 people will always strive for an outlet to the sea.

>To be sure, there is here one pre-condition -- it cannot be admitted that one party should say: I do not want to fight you any more and therefore I offer to cut my armaments down to 35 per cent, and that the other party should say from time to time: We will fight again when it suits us.

>Somewhere, my fellow countrymen, there is a limit -- a limit where yielding must cease, because it would otherwise become a harmful weakness and I would have no right to maintain a place in German history if I were simply to renounce 10,000,000 without caring about them. I would then have no moral right to be Fuehrer of the German people.

>In the first place, however, I speak of Germans. For these Germans I have now spoken and now given assurances that I am no longer willing to look on quietly and passively as this lunatic believes he can simply mishandle 3,500,000 human beings.

http://www.greatspeeches.net/2013/05/adolf-hitler-no-more-territorial-demands.html?m=1

it is a fascinating speech.

>>3391607

since it seems like you're genuinely curious and not just some contrarian fag I'll explain

most of the work done was construction work, metal work, or similiar things. people were building roads, building railway tracks or simply building parts or making raw materials, for weapons, transportation devices, infrastructure.. inmates were woken up at 5AM and started working at 6AM, usually for 11 hours per day.

but the labor also served a second, very important purpose. indeed so many people were actively killed that it was simply unfeasible to have everyone executed asap. there was not enough space for bodies, not enough space in the gas chambers, not enough space in the crematorium. having more than half of the jews work themselves to death freed up a lot of space and production in the Vernichtungslagern (deathcamps).

this is also the reason why many jews, communists, crippled, roma or homosexuals were shot/gassed by CO2 in cars (this was abandoned after a year iirc), or killed in any other barbaric matter. there simply was not enough capacity in the gas chambers and the ovens to kill that many people At Once. it was a long process.

>>3391652

questions led you an a journey to find the truth. you took the easy path, only to realize that, make a 360 degrees (tm) turnaround and question the sceptic. I am proud of you anon.

/pol/ is like a shitty drug. a lot of people try meth and never stop for as long as they live. for them it is pure bliss, for an outsider it is reprehensible. never be that one idiot who gets stuck with a shitty drug.

>>3390814
Is it illegal to question the black death? Will you go to jail for it? If not then it's probably real

>>3391292
>heard of any statement of them working on anything but jew lampshades
Are you being quite honest here my man? Jewish slave labor was used for absolutely everything, uniforms, ammunition, ROCKETS, etc. That's why they were evacuated west instead of just killed when the Soviets advanced, they were needed to produce everything.

>>3391766
Questioning isn't forbidden, outright denying is. Or are you implying shit like the Rwandan, Armenian genocides and the Holodomor aren't real because it's forbidden to deny them as well without repercussions?

>>3391777
But often questioning is conflated with denying. If you say "Maybe the numbers are exaggerated", you go to jail.

>>3391789
Can you provide a source to your claim that saying "maybe the numbers are exaggerated" will lead you to jail? Genuinely curious. This is what Wikipedia states from what I've found:
>Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is an exaggeration or hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples.[8] For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be an antisemitic[9] conspiracy theory,[10] and is illegal in several countries.

>>3391789
Saying "How do we not know if it was 5.7 million?" will not lead you to jail. Saying shit like "It is statistically impossible for more than 1 million to have been killed, it is a gross exagerration", will most likely. Gross trivialization is what leads one to punishment, or outright denial.
t. German

>>3391795
Which says exactly what I said. Saying its been exaggerated is illegal.

>>3391777
Same thing. And yes

>>3391811
You haven't provided a source for "Maybe the numbers are exaggerated". Also what >>3391810 said. Also obligatory:
>denying or grossly trivializing "crimes of genocide" should be made "punishable in all EU Member States"
Key word on "grossly trivializing".

>>3391795
The numbers were originally exaggerated.

Auschwitz had a plaque up stating 4 million died there. It's no secret that the allied powers exaggerated the Nazi war crimes to justify their own horrendous actions. Fire bombing entire cities, women and children included.

>>3391735
Hm.. this is actually interesting. People mostly focus in auchwitz but when you search information about other ext. camps it really gives you a whole new look on the subject. I never imagined that they would be given this much responsibility over the production.

>>3391774
For example mittelbau-dora
Lmao thanks for information thats pretty awesome info.

>>3391774
also where can i find more info on the evacuation?

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WWII never happened

>>3391699
You are disingenuous. Of course the proportion matters, half the population of a country has been killed, do you imagine what it implies in terms of will to kill and devastation? And the consequences? If you follow your reasoning the Black Death was a pleasantry compared to the current anual death toll of the malaria.

>>3391699
>I'm going out on limb and straight up claiming that even proportionally world war 2 killed a higher % of the world population than did the 30 years war
You're not serious.

>>3391821
The Soviet Aushwitz plague was not about the Jewish Holocaust. Why do you keep lying, you snake?

>>3391821
he confusion stems from the fact that there are two quite separate - and completely different - interpretations of the four million figure
1) The Western one, which is the total number of Jews believed murdered in all camps - not just in Auschwitz. This figure was given to the International Military Tribunal (IMT) by Wilhelm Höttl:

"Approximately 4,000,000 Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2,000,000 met death in other ways, the major part of whom were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia."

source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/12-14-45.asp

>>3391839
wow (((someone))) is getting emotional ;)

>>3391839
>>3391843

>"Four million people suffered and died here at the hands of the Nazi murderers between the years 1940 and 1945"

>>3391853
So you're literally ignoring the explanation that I posted? Here, let me rewrite it for you:

the confusion stems from the fact that there are two quite separate - and completely different - interpretations of the four million figure in this context:

1) The Western one, which is the total number of Jews believed murdered in all camps - not just in Auschwitz. This figure was given to the International Military Tribunal (IMT) by Wilhelm Höttl:

"Approximately 4,000,000 Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2,000,000 met death in other ways, the major part of whom were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia."

source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/12-14-45.asp

And an additional:
Adolf Eichmann, who had been put in charge of this programme by Hitler, has estimated that the policy pursued resulted in the killing of 6,000,000 Jews, of which 4,000,000 were killed in the extermination institutions."

source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judwarcr.asp
Notice that it says nothing at all about the number of deaths at Auschwitz.

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>>3390814
>Millions of eye witnesses
>Millions
>This is what holohoax believers actually believe
So let me get this straight, something that was kept so secret involving million of Jews that no on in Germany knew about it was also witnesses by millions of people, and every witness who said shit like
>There was a roller coaster that dropped of bodies onto a huge inferno
>Blood was a good fire starter
>Packs of dogs were trained to rape prisoners
Were ALL telling the truth?

>>3391821
Literally the earliest academic literature on the Holocaust gave the total number of Jews killed as 5-6 million. If anything in the immediate aftermath of WW2 German war crimes were downplayed in popular culture as the West Germans were now our friends and our new enemy was the Soviets.

>>3391853
>people

>3391857
(You)

>>3391856
>So you're literally ignoring the explanation that I posted?

Yes, I am posting what was on the plaque.

You trying to tell me they did not mean what they wrote in plain language is bullshit.

They did not say "Four million people suffered and died across Nazi germany" or "across all concentration camps" they said "here".

Here is not there or anywhere else, it is here.

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>>3391766
So you're telling me the Holocaust happened in the US and UK, but not in France?

>>3391849
Well, it was a question and you apparently fear to answer it.

Why are you lying?

>>3391856
Remember that time when jews admitted they lied about the Holocaust, only to reinforce their other lies about the Holocaust?
>Yehuda Bauer, an Israeli Holocaust scholar who chairs the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, said he warned his friend Wiesenthal, who died in 2005, about spreading the false notion that the Holocaust claimed 11 million victims – 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews.

>"I said to him, ‘Simon, you are telling a lie,’” Bauer recalled in an interview Tuesday. “He said, ‘Sometimes you need to do that to get the results for things you think are essential.’”

>Bauer and other historians who knew Wiesenthal said the Nazi hunter told them that he chose the 5 million number carefully: He wanted a number large enough to attract the attention of non-Jews who might not otherwise care about Jewish suffering, but not larger than the actual number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust, 6 million.

>It caught on: President Jimmy Carter, issuing the executive order that would establish the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, referred to the “11 million victims of the Holocaust.”

>Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of Holocaust studies at Emory University in Atlanta, wrote in 2011 how the number continues to dog her efforts to teach about the Holocaust.

>“I have been to many Yom Hashoah observances — including those sponsored by synagogues and Jewish communities — where eleven candles were lit,” she wrote in an article in the Jewish Review of Books in which she lacerated Wiesenthal’s ethical standards.

>>3391874
>Jews would never lie about the Holocaust
Yes, anon, well done well done.... HOWEVER
>“When I tell the organizers that they are engaged in historical revisionism, their reactions range from skepticism to outrage. Strangers have taken me to task in angry letters for focusing ‘only’ on Jewish deaths and ignoring the five million others. When I explain that this number is simply inaccurate, in fact made up, they become even more convinced of my ethnocentrism and inability to feel the pain of anyone but my own people.”

>The problem, according to Bauer, who has debunked the number repeatedly in his writings over the decades, is not that non-Jews were not victims; they were. It is that Wiesenthal’s arbitrarily chosen tally of non-Jewish victims diminishes the centrality to the Nazi ideology of systematically wiping any trace of the Jewish people from the planet.
>The number 5 million also adheres to no known understanding of the number of non-Jews killed by the Nazis: While as many as 35 million people were killed overall because of Nazi aggression, the number of non-Jews who died in the concentration camps is no more than half a million, Bauer said.

I like how they also just blame.the whole war on the Germans too, lol. It's a good touch

>>3391863
>Literally

Again this is what they wrote on the plaque at Auschwitz

>"Four million people suffered and died here at the hands of the Nazi murderers between the years 1940 and 1945"

So clearly there was some exaggeration going on.

>>3391871
no, where was that implied?

>>3391883
Why is your only argument one plaque?

>>3391863
>They were down played
>Because the west Germans became our friends after the war and our new enemy was the Soviets
>Therefore allied propoganda was like
>Yes whatever, that war and all that? Whatever, it don't matter.
>None of this matters
Wew lad

>>3391872
>y-you're lying it's illegal to have a different opinion but trust me it's real REEE

>>3391883
>So clearly there was some exaggeration going on

You know the Russian plaque refers to victims mostly of Slavic origins, not Jews and that it was not accepted by western scholars, right?

>>3391895
Do you fear to answer a simple question?

>>3391891
>For those in the Western zones of occupation, the arrival of the Cold War undermined the demilitarization process by seemingly justifying the key part of Hitler's foreign policies — the "fight against Soviet bolshevism".

>>3391900
Oh yeah, and that holocuast stuff didnt matter at all. It's not like a certain state in the Middle East was created over this. What is it called, hmm...

>>3391891
Would you mind trying to make your point in paragraphs and sentences? Anons that try to make points in a series of misused greentext are the worst posters.

I genuinely have no idea what you are trying to say.

>>3391887
Why do I need to argue anything else? It proves the point quite nicely.

>>3391897

The people who replaced that plaque in 1990 said the original number was from inflated soviet numbers. They replaced it with one that said 1.5 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial

>>3391903
Israel wasn't created because of the holocaust.

>>3391899
I haven't been asked anything my big nosed friend

>>3391906
>Why do I need to argue anything else? It proves the point quite nicely.

No it doesn't, not when there are multiple other sources other than one Soviet plaque. It is deliberate cherry picking.

>>3391906
>The people who replaced that plaque in 1990 said the original number was from inflated soviet numbers.
Yes, because Soviets inflated number of THEIR people, not Jews. How hard is it to understand the simple distinction?

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>>3391908
Let me ask you again, my fish-brained friend

On what purpose are you spreading lies in this thread?

>>3391857
No everybody doesn't tell the truth, but it's still not a hoax.

read: >>3391735

it might not have been as straightforward killing as you would imagine but they really were getting rid of jews.

There might not have been gaschambers on work all the time in auschwitz but they could easily have been used at some point and crematoriums just are pretty much a necessity if you don't want to dig big burial grounds or/and dont want disease and rotting corpses everywhere so they weren't probably there just to kill and fume zyklon b from gassed bodies into the air.

One lie doesn't make whole statement false and a statement doesn't make a lie true. It's good to remain certain criticality.

>>3391874
>>3391882
>Scheming jews can't be trusted unless their words can be used to fit my narrative
Really causes thoughts to take place.

>>3391913
>disagreeing with me is lying
>/his/ is one person

>>3391911
Jews were (((their))) people.

>>3391909
>No it doesn't, not when there are multiple other sources other than one Soviet plaque. It is deliberate cherry picking.
Such as?

>>3391921
>/pol/ memes

>>>/pol/

>>3391909
I'm arguing people inflated numbers.

I do not need to prove everyone, everywhere inflated them to prove the point. A plaque being put up at the most memorable concentration camp, which was later said to be based on inflated numbers by Simon Wiesenthal Center (a Jewish group) proves the point.

So shut up.

>>3391926
One plaque does not prove a general case. You are talking shit.

>>3391914
>just because people lied about everything doesn't mean that it's not true

Well...

>>3391923
Ron Hilberg for example.

>>3391939
You talk like this is a plaque in a neo-nazi basement.

It was outside of the most significant concentration camp until the 1990, and certainly proves the small point of some numbers being inflated.

I'm not sure why every time I bring up this point retards storm in to argue that every single aspect of the holocaust is irrefutably correct, unlike any other episode in history.

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>>3391921
Lying is a process of telling what you know is not true and expecting others to believe it.

You claimed that the numbers of Jews in Holocaust were exaggerated based on the fact Soviets exaggerated number of Slavs killed in Aushwitz; a number that was neither took seriously in the west or even used in publications that counted total number of victims. This disinformation was corrected so many times, it is impossible to believe someone through "he was on something fishy here!".

>>3391970
Yes, except you know, the country wasn't really free. It was controlled by the Soviets and they didn't care about Western estimates.

>>3391970
>and certainly proves the small point of some numbers being inflated.

Except nobody has believed those numbers to be true since Nuremberg.

>>3391975
>>3391979

So they were exaggerated? Just not by the west? Is that now your argument?

>>3391984
>Being this retarded

>>3391920
>Scheming jews can't be trusted unless their words can be used to fit my narrative
In other words
>I'm going to ignore that fact that Jewish people.just admitted that they lied to the goyim for decades and tell you to go back to /pol/
Okay pal

>>3391914
Forces labor =/= mass genocide, how is that even a refutation of anything I said?

>>3391987
>I've lost the argument so now it's on to insults

I'm sorry not even the holocaust is black and white. This must be very traumatic to your worldview.

>>3391984
>They were exaggerated by Soviets and not really based on serious research
>They were not connected to estimates of total number of victims
>They were corrected by western scholars
>They exaggerated number goes for atrocities against Slavs, not the Jewish Holocast

>>3391907
You can't say it didn't help...

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>>3391907
>Israel wasn't created because of the holocaust.

>>3391970
>You talk like this is a plaque in a neo-nazi basement.

No I don't, you are full of strawman bullshit.

If you want to make the claim that Holocaust numbers were generally inflated in the aftermath of WW2 then you need a lot more evidence than one plaque, it is as simple as that.

>>3391959
When did Hilberg ever claim 4,000,000 died at Auschwitz?

>>3392000
>They were exaggerated

That is all I am arguing.

Who corrected, when, and why is not at issue here.

>>3391991
How do you know that claim is not a lie itself? You wouldn't trust a jew, would you?

>>3392011
But we are not talking about atrocities commited on one specific place against Slavs, but against the whole Jewish population.

Early estimates on dead Jews gave us 5.1M (Hillberg) and 5.8M (English inquiry). Are those exaggerated?

>>3392009
Never, try and follow the conversation.

>>3392011
>That is all I am arguing.

Why the fuck would you argue about the authenticity of a number that everyone already agrees is false and no historian ever took seriously in a Holocaust denial thread?

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>>3390814
Why are stormfags still trying? They're getting BTFO every day.

>>3392006
You are downplaying the significance of that "one plaque".

What am I going to find in the historical record that will change your mind if the plaque at Auschwitz isn't enough? Nothing, no matter what I dig up it will not be enough for you.

>>3392034
I am talking about the numbers killed in the concentration camps being inflated post war. Nothing more.

>>3392040
>Why the fuck would you argue about the authenticity of a number that everyone already agrees is false

Lots of fucking people apparently.

>>3392049
>You are downplaying the significance of that "one plaque".

No, you are deliberately massively overplaying it, because it is the only point you have. It has never been used as a source by any Western scholar, ever.

>>3392049
>I am talking about the numbers killed in the concentration camps being inflated post war. Nothing more.

And your only argument is that Soviets did not exactely give a fuck about truth and used wrong number in one of the camps? How shocking and provocative, who would have throught...

>>3392049
>You are downplaying the significance of that "one plaque".
And pray tell, what is the significance of this one plaque?

>>3391996
Due to the high kill count i would say it was a genocide.

still not as crazy as you would imagine. But taking people who are mostly jews and forcing them to work in poor conditions with a high risk of death is in my eyes a deathsentence to a group of people. Wouldn't you call it that?

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>>3390814
>with millions of eye-witnesses

>>3392015
Well the statement is partially a lie actually.
>The Nazis killed 35 million people
>Tried to wipe out jewishness as a whole
Sure, whatever you say Schlomo. Is every jew a liar? No. Are Jews generally liars because for hundreds of years they have lived as a folk who lived as diaspora with a strict internal code away from the laws of their hosts?

Yes. Then their is the subject of the unconscious lying of Jews and what her or not it's just a semitic trait or something that is learned. Hasids and the Orthodox are not the same as reform Jews in this regard. Although every experience I've had with Jews has made them seem incredibly hateful towards goyim and intensely nativistic.

>>3391328
oh yes because annexing poland is just a 'petty territorial dispute'

>>3392102
>The Nazis killed 35 million people
>Nazi aggression resulted into deaths of 35 million people
Those two are different things. Seems to me lack of reading comprehension is the best fuel for Holodeniers

>Tried to wipe out jewishness as a whole
This is correct.

>I've had with Jews has made them seem incredibly hateful towards goyim and intensely nativistic.
Wow, those Jews are literal Nazis!

>>3391975
No I didn't nerd, there really are more than two people on this board

>>3392102
So their words are conveniently not lies when such words can be used to further your narrative?
Really causes thoughts to take place x2.

Anyway, hope those pesky jews drop their antics so that they don't brainwash girls so that you can finally have sex.

>>3392162
Then did your another persona...like anyone gives a fuck

>>3392036
My bad, I thought you were implying that there were other sources claiming that 4 million died at Auschwitz.

>>3392215
typical jewish paranoia

>>3392260
I apologise for my brusque reply. I appreciated immediately after I made my reply to you that my previous post could have been easily misinterpreted to someone coming into the middle of a discussion and I felt bad I was not more civil. Thank you for taking the time to actually double check the context of what I was saying.

>>3391652
Your first mistake was identifying with a group. I certainly hope you don't identify with the "opposite" of /pol/ now.

>>3392312
I agree that it would have been hilarious if Bomber Harris had nuked Berlin.

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>>3392305
Nah, I don't. I'm not in the middle of anything. I call out everyone's bullshit now, commies, conservatives, libertarians, whatever. I just wanna be as objective as possible, although I might fail at times.

>>3392329
>Disingenious lying fucks like yourself are the reason why camps were built in the first place.
But I thought the camps were lovely places with pools and football teams and fluffy bunnies? Why would these places be built for disingenious lying fucks?

>>3392379
>Denying they're death camps and stating they're camps to hold people with poisonous ideals are not the same argumentation

So those pools and football teams are a lie?

>>3390814
>with millions of eye-witnesses

Why do people repeat this shit?

Treblinka 11, the (alleged) site of the homocidal genocide of 750'000 -> 1 million jews in diesel fume gas chambers (from a submarine engine transported accross europe, even though the countryside is littered with far more effecient woodgas stoves), literally comes down to the eyewitness reports of around 6 people. There is no official documentation aside from 1 piece of paper found in library years later with some numbers on it. There are plenty of people who were transported through treblinka on the way to the eastern terrotories.

>gas almost a million people (in a highly ineffecient way)
>bury them all
>dig them all up
>burn them all over railway lines, using no fuel, into literal dust, bones and all
>spread the dust thinly over a huge area, to the point that it's literally indetectabe
>turn it into a farm
>65 years later some bitch does a wee dig, finds old pottery and a sharks tooth, and a single christain grave site predating the 17th century, declares it a new mass grave
>whole thing is paved over conveniently
>jewish rites don't permit excavations

And the craziest thing? the only thing keeping in all these jews being literally herded to death by a man with a sword and a cat o nine tails called 'ivan the terrible', is a single bared wire fence intersperced with wood (i.e. a ladder). There wasn't even a fence around the (fake) train station.

There is not enough evidence here to convict someone of a single murder - no body, no record, no crime scene. And yet if you don't accept it happened almost a million times, you are a NAZI jewhater (oh, and it's illegal)

>http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf

>>3390814
>not keeping a healthy wee bit of scepticism no matter where you learnt or were obligated to learn history
C'mon son, don't pretend to be dumb.

All history is fabricated, Anon.

>>3392144
>This is correct.
*Not correct
>>3392167
>So their words are not lies
I said that they are still lying in that article and still generally lie. That does not mean Jews always lie, it means they generally lie because they have no respect for the moral codes of non-jews.

You really don't understand what outliers and modality is ,huh?

>>3392086
Yes, my argument is that the allies inflated the numbers.

I like how you fools have gone from
>nobody inflated anything

To
>no western scholars inflated anything
>soviets didn't give a fuck about numbers
>what significance is the plaque that stood outside Auschwitz for 40 years.

>>3392278
That's alright. I apologize, I hadn't properly followed the conversation. I saw the post of the guy who posted the "Criticism of Holocaust Denial" link and I mistakenly assumed that he was arguing against a Holocaust denier and that since you contradicted him, you were one. That, in turn, made me misinterpret your post as I did.
No problem, and thanks for the civility.

>>3392329
Lol, you paranoid idiot. Go complain about le ebul jews to someone who cares.

>>3392391
>writing a post this long without making a single true statement

>>3390814
nobody denies that the holocaust happened. they just deny that it was 6 million and that the jews were gassed and killed on purpose.

>>3392336
I don't understand this hostility, I agreed with exactly what you said.

>>3392476
>they just deny that the jews were gassed and killed on purpose

So what, they were gassed and killed in the millions by accident?

>>3392476
>they just deny that it was 6 million and that the jews were gassed and killed on purpose.

But that is denying the Holocaust.

>>3392444
>Yes, my argument is that the allies inflated the numbers.
First, please differentiate between Allies and Soviets, second why "numbers" not "number"? So far you've mentioned only one number that was not really taken seriously.

>nobody inflated anything
Did anyone claimed so? I haven't noticed. On the other hand, your goalposts were that "numbers of victims of Holocaust was inflated early on" and "Saying that the numbers are inflated will lead you to jail". First one is plain wrong (The beloved Soviet plaque of yours hadn't talked about Jewish holocaust or total number of victims), second can be correct if you claim in certain countries that the exaggaration was "significant and done on political purpose".

>>3390814
>millions of eye-witnesses and survivors
feels like more survivors are being found every year!

>>3392507
>please differentiate between Allies and Soviets

Are you now trying to argue that the soviets were not part of the allied forces in WW2?

>"Saying that the numbers are inflated will lead you to jail"

Never said that.

>The beloved Soviet plaque of yours hadn't talked about Jewish holocaust or total number of victims

"Four million people suffered and died here at the hands of the Nazi murderers between the years 1940 and 1945"

>>3392427
And do those words in the article which don't constitute a lie happen to be those which don't contradict your narrative? That would really make me think.

>>3392403
As if a Holocaust denier kept the same skepticism towards any other historical fact he learned in school.

Not even that the denial of something when there's mountains of evidence to the contrary is "skepticism".

>>3392533
Are you seriously suggesting the Nazis only killed Jews?

>>3392514
>>3390850
Are you seriously suggesting the only witnesses are Jewish survivors?

>>3392533
>Are you now trying to argue that the soviets were not part of the allied forces in WW2?
Well, we are talking about Holocaust historiography which is a Cold war thing. Also there are massive differences between Soviet and Western historiography, to the point conflating them reeks of disingenuity.

>Never said that.
>>3391789

>"Four million people suffered and died here at the hands of the Nazi murderers between the years 1940 and 1945"
And...?

>>3392603
Should I repeat that I did not say that? I understand we don't have ID's here but that does not allow you to attribute everything in this thread to me.

>>3392603
>Well, we are talking about Holocaust historiography which is a Cold war thing.

In the future you may want to just say "yes the numbers were inflated but only by the soviets" instead of trying to alter the question hours later because the historical evidence does not support your argument.

>And...?

>numbers of victims of Holocaust was inflated early on is plain wrong

You are wrong.

>>3392683
>You are wrong.

What's the evidence total numbers for the Holocaust was exaggerated early on? Note I asked you for evidence that the total number was exaggerated early on, not to shitpost about a sign at Auschwitz for the millionth time.

>>3392724

Sorry if it's existence proves my point and you would like me to just pretend that it did no exist to help your increasingly desperate argument.

>>3392683
>Should I repeat that I did not say that? I understand we don't have ID's here but that does not allow you to attribute everything in this thread to me.
So it was mr. Hyde? Good, one less thing to bother about.

>In the future you may want to just say
What did you meant by this? I'm failling to follow these mental gymnastics of yours.

>You are wrong.
Nope. For fourth (I think) time:
>It's a single number
>The number is not about Jewish Holocaust
>The number was not even used in estimation of total number of Russian victims (Soviet data on WW2 deaths were considered more or less accurate)

History is a Jewish fabrication.

>>3392329
I'm failing to see what's so incredibly horrible about these magazine covers you posted.

>>3392765
In other words you cannot answer what I just said to you. I just joined the thread btw.

>>3392777
>There's only 2 people in this thread.

You are a fucking retard and this shit thread full of retards can't hit the bump limit fast enough.

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>>3390814
>the rest of history is completely fabricated
That's LITERALLY what they believe tho

>>3392800
>In other words you cannot

No I can't prove anything to you, because you are a fool who will believe whatever he wants to despite any and all evidence to the contrary. If plaques outside Auschwitz, which were removed, for exaggerating numbers, according to jewish groups, are not proof the numbers were exaggerated then what the fuck is?

>>3392837
This seems like a coherent and intelligent post, for some reason it is made almost entirely in greentext implying they are quoting the poster they replied to as no other source is provided.

Strange how the greentext does not seem to represent anything the post they replied to at all.

>>3392854
Proof of numbers used by anybody fucking else being exaggerated?

>>3391264
>>3391244
>>3391370
It always amazes how stormfags give nazis the most leeway when interpreting their actions/policies/vocabulary but the same courtesy is never extended to the allies/soviets/jews.

>>3392854
what the fuck is?

Errr, well gee let me think for mimute, umm well this is certainly a difficult point, gosh, hold on a second.....

You could provide me some peer reviewed sources from the late 40s and 50s.

Moron.

>>3392837
why are germans allowed to look after their racial/ethnic interests but the same right is not afforded to jews? really gets the chimney chiming

>>3392879
Commies are usually the worst offenders of that.

>>3392879
>the same courtesy is never extended to the allies/soviets/jews

The last one always puzzles me. What exactly have Jews done that's so truly monstrous? Expressed an opinion? Perhaps had some greater level of wealth and influence than others?

Until Israel became a state and actually started pushing its weight around Jews really haven't really done anything horrendous in any measurable sense.

>>3392897
> What exactly have Jews done that's so truly monstrous?
(((they))) stabbed Germany in the back in WW1, preventing the Second Reich from securing Germany's natural dominance over Europe.

>>3392891
Really? Tankies might try to downplay the severity of the purges or the casualties of the holodomor, but they never deny it actually happened.

Whereas stormweenies go full "WE DINDU NUFFIN WHAT GAS CHAMBERS WHAT TRAINS WHAT NAZI CORRESPONDENCE WHAT DECRYPTED ENIGMA WHAT KREMAS WHAT MASS GRAVE THE JEWS STABBED MUH BACK WE WUZ GUT JUNGES UND SCHEISSE"

>>3390872

you jest but its literally what's happening to our history

>http://www.bbc.co.uk/education

>>3390820
top kek

>>3390850
top kek

>>3392890
You didn't provide a quote.

>>3392898
>it's another "the kiel mutiny never happened, the spartacus uprising alone made germany collapse" episode
kys faggot

>>3392880
>You could provide me some peer reviewed sources from the late 40s and 50s.

Sorry I don't have a subscription to the journal of counting dead Jews. Perhaps someone else can help you.

>>3392907
Ooh, look, an insult from (((someone))) who cannot form a coherent argument. Color me surprised.

>>3392907
>another "there were no Jewish Bolsheviks it was all made up!" episode

>>3392908
And I'm sorry you don't have a single source that actually backs you claim but hey ho, that's life.

>>3392890
What exactly is the Jewish poison? Is it that they're speaking their mind? Saying things that allegedly are an assault on white society?

Isn't that something they should be completely allowed to do by right of free speech?

>>3392898
For one, Jews actually served in the German military at a rate proportional to the general German populace.

Secondly, I need a bit of a hand. I've seen this before where people will conflagrate the Spartacus uprising with another revolution that happened because it can be used to push antisemitism. Can anyone fill in my gaps?

>>3392900
They almost always either try to downplay the number of casualties, dismiss it as cia mind trick propaganda, blame it on other people, or just go full fedora and say they deserved it, all the while bitching about so called western atrocities. Really they're just lucky ww3 never happened and they didn't the nazi treatment. This is kinda irrelevant tho.

>>3392916
>And I'm sorry you don't have a single source that I consider to be valid

>>3392910
It's getting pretty tiring having to explain that the spartacus uprising occurred during the second half of the german revolution in january 1919, when in reality it was the Kiel mutiny which started in november 1918 which forced Ludendorf and Hindenburg to reach a compromise with the SPD.

>inb4 you fuck off

File: flat,800x800,075,f (1).jpg (18KB, 248x189px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 248x189px

>>3390850

>>3392923
Someone's ass isn't a valid source in a scientific discussion. You'll have to learn to deal with that.

>>3392921
As horrible as it is, downplaying a tragedy is still better than outright denying it happened.

>>3392921
*Didn't get the nazi treatment

>>3392923
So what was the source from the 40s and 50s I called invalid for the total numbers killed in the Holocaust again?

>>3392927
>>3392919
It's the Spartacist uprising. Sparatcus was a guy who led a slave revolt against Rome.

I'm sorry, and I agree with you guys, but that triggers my autism.

>>3392935
From what I've read most don't actually deny Jews were killed. They just dispute the numbers or pieces of the official narrative.

>>3392933
>Everything that disagrees with my worldview is from an invalid source

>>3392941
No problem. Correcting misinformation is how we learn.

>>3392880
lul you're so flustered by this. by any chance are you a woman?

>>3392948
Kek, c'mon Ingrid, this is the worst "point" I have ever heard.

>>3392941
>spartacist
oh fair enough, in my language it's typically referenced as the "spartacus revolt".

>Sparatcus was a guy who led a slave revolt against Rome
I know, it's just an homage kind of thing.

>>3392944
As long as you don't cite some peer-reviewed articles in a respectable (that is: not some shitty Egyptian pay2publish open access journal from a different field) journal, you're talking out of your ass. Might as well just cite some unsourced neonazi blog. That's equally as valid as you talking out of your ass.

>>3390814
because /pol/tards and stormfags believe shit that contradict all available evidence, they often end up having to take a postmodern position

File: 1494717754933.jpg (45KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 600x600px

>>3392912
>jewish bolsheviks in germany
really makes you think, doesnt it

File: fedora '95.gif (2MB, 408x306px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 408x306px

>What exactly is the Jewish poison? Is it that they're speaking their mind? Saying things that allegedly are an assault on white society?

>Isn't that something they should be completely allowed to do by right of free speech?

>>3392971
>plaques outside Auschwitz are as invalid as neonazi blogs

I don't have a time machine to send you back so you can count them for yourself. Even if I did I imagine you would call yourself an unreliable source anyways.

>>3392958
im not even the poster you were arguing with, I just found it amusing

>>3392985
is there a point to that greentext coming somewhere later down the line?

>>3392837
>it's ANOTHER unsourced, cherrypicked, semi-false /pol/ infograph
Care to tell us why Jeff Bewkes, the CEO of cnn, or Steve Burke, CEP of NBC News aren't in the pic? One would think the CEO would be the first person in such a list.

L Y I N G S T O R M F A G

>>3392985
Were you quoting me?

I'm not sure what argument you're making? Regardless, I still stand by my position.

>>3392919
They tend to be a fifth column for many peoples so I can understand why they're disliked.

>>3390866
>Motive for the Holohoax is Israel

You mean the thing that existed before the holocaust happened?

>>3392992
>im not even the poster you were arguing with
I knew that perfectly well Ingrid, I replied to their response in a separate post. I just found you amusing.

>>3392987
You don't understand a single thing about how historiography, or any science, for that matter, works.
You think that mentioning a fact is sufficient to prove your narrative.

You probably have never even heard of source criticism, you don't tell a disciplined narrative, you aren't reflectively including all the relevant contexts, you aren't argumentatively securing your narrative against alternative interpretations.

Other people - real historians - have done all of that. That's why you're supposed to cite them, so that their work can shine some proper light on your lone fact.
But you don't. And that's why you're an incarnation of everything that is wrong with this board. Please fuck off.

>>3391493
Not an argument

>>3392987
>the auschwitz plaque """argument"""
I hope you realize you're the lowest denominator among stormfags, which are already the most retarded group in /his/. I hope you're proud.

>>3393088
just making sure, I understand tampons struggle with that sometimes.

>>3393114
>which are already the most retarded group in /his/
No one can dethrone gommies.

>>3393096
pretty much no one does that on this board anyways.

>>3393127
Not really, I've at least had a decent conversation with a self proclaimed communist here once or twice.

I can't say the same for stormfags.

>>3393154
Nah, they're generally insufferable. Most of the time they seem like kids too which is annoying.

>>3393114
actually I'm fairly curious how you guys answer that one succinctly. When stormfags hit me with this, I find it hard to articulate that the soviets got their estimates wrong and that historians quickly revised it. The second I say this they just call me JIDF or retarded for trusting jewish lies or that it's naturally what jews would do, or that it proves that the numbers are even more inflated than currently accepted.

How do my fellow /his/torians deal with this shit? Any good academic source explaining this more clearly than I do atm?

>>3393203
You don't bother, since they won't care whether it's true or not, what matters is if it fits their narrative. "Arguing with a smart person is hard. Arguing with a crazy person is impossible."

>>3393203
if you're too retarded to debate than you shouldn't.

>>3393203
I don't know how articulate and succinct I am since I'm not a native english speaker, but you can look up any western death toll estimation for jews in auschwitz from different historians in the 50s and it will be around the same number as today (and much lower than the plaque), since western historians called the soviet number propaganda from the beginning. The plaque also exaggerated soviet deaths, not jewish ones.

>The second I say this they just call me JIDF
Stormfags are retarded and this is their defense mechanism to avoid criticism of their conspiracies. Everything that contradicts them is a jewish forgery/lie, making their conspiracies unfalsifiable. There's not much to do about it, just expose their lies and move on.

>>3393286
You didn't answer anything I posted, stormfag.

>more infopics
Follow your leader and kill yourself.

>>3393303
maybe because you didn't dispute anything he said.

>>3393410
>entire """argument""" is based on quotes from a genocidal sociopath and retarded infographs that cherrypick and ignore every contradicting evidence, literally avoiding the fucking CEOs because they aren't JOOS
>y-y-you didn't answer anything

>>3393096
>The source is wrong

No fucking shit it's wrong. That is the entire point.

Let me reiterate because you retards seem to be getting lost in forests of your own making.

Immediately post war, the number of those killed in concentration camps by Nazis were inflated by the allies for their own political gain. Which is perfectly captured in the memorial plaque which stood outside Auschwitz stating 4 million died in that camp alone.

>>3393537
Why did western historians disagree with the plaque then?

>>3393537
>Immediately post war, the number of those killed in concentration camps by Nazis were inflated by the allies for their own political gain.
But that's fucking false, retard. The numbers established by the Nuremberg commission have remained virtually the same for the last 70 years.

>Which is perfectly captured in the memorial plaque which stood outside Auschwitz stating 4 million died in that camp alone.
But the plaque says "died AND SUFFERED", not simply that they died. And no nation has officially claimed that number is true.

>>3393478
he just posted an infograph, you got butthurt and started going off on some negro tier tangent.

>>3393561
Because it was wrong. There was not a lasting conspiracy to inflate the numbers. Just initial false reporting.

>>3393572
The infographs he posts are the """proofs""" that "the jews are perpetuating the same crimes the nazis condemned them for" (aka, spreading "Jewish poison", resulting in "what is happening now"), retard. You seem to be butthurt that his lies are being exposed.

>>3393608
what lies, negro brain? That Jews are prominent in those networks?

>>3393570
>The numbers established by the Nuremberg commission

Where are you finding these?

>>3393630
>make list of jews trying to prove that they are in a conspiracy and run a media corporation
>don't include the most important people from said corporation
>accuse other because "downplaying of Jewish poison is both uneducated and once again disingenious"
>I-I'M NOT LYING
The image is gone but I'm pretty sure it was posted to /his/ before and has non-jews and completely irrelevant people that was added to pad the list too, ad usual.
Kill yourself stormnigger.

>>3393658
Im not the guy who posted that. corporations are made up of many different people, it's like saying the president is the be all end all of American government. Get lynched nigger.

>>3393696
>corporations are made up of many different people
I agree. Try telling that to your fellow stormniggers.

Holocaust shit should be kept to /pol/

/his/ is incapable of arguing about it without turning into /pol/

>>3393701
I'm telling it to you, spook.

>>3393719
And I agree with you as explicitly said above, stormfag.

>>3391181
>Theory i like the most
Well it's a good thing that there isn't a single historian in the western world who takes your theory seriously.

>>3391328
Ah yes, the petty territorial dispute of "we want to take over the entire country of Poland and exterminate half their population to make room for German settlement and abduct the children of the other half so we can give them to German families while enslaving the survivors."

>>3393731
Good, then you should have no problem with that ancient infograph other than the fact that it contains mean shitlord words, sambo.

>>3391422
>i know i've broken every agreement i've signed in the past 21 years but trust me this time i will keep my end of the bargain

>>3393762
On the contrary, stormfag, the infograph is pretending that those corporations are not "made up of many different people" (as you correctly stated) by lying and cherrypicking, so you should have a problem with it too.

>>3393779
It lists plenty of different people in various occupations, jiggy. At best you could accuse it of cherrypicking but really it's no secret that Jews are prominent in those sectors. They arent shy either.

>>3393807
>At best you could accuse it of cherrypicking
What have I been doing, exactly?

>>3393822
Accusations of lying, sperging about stermfergs, "zomg gitler quote". The usual.

>>3393850
All of which is also correct, stormfag.

>>3393853
That is what your posts have consisted of, yes.

>>3392474
That's the official narrative buddy

>>3390850
who is this semen demon

>>3393000
Why were my quotes deleted mod?
>Jeff Bewkes
If I listed a non-jew as a jew you'd point that out, pretty disingenious
>he is the CEO and he isn't jewish!
CNN is owned by Turner, John K. Martin (a jew)is CEO & Chairman
David Levy (also a jew) is President.
And right above Bewkes is the President position, held by Jeff Zucker, a jew.

Get fucked kike.

>>3394362
Are you too retarded to understand that you have to put both jews and non jews to asses their overrepresentation? A padded list of cherrypicked names tells you nothing. Wait, you're a stormfag, of course you are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CNN_personnel

>CNN is owned by Turner, John K. Martin (a jew)is CEO & Chairman
Turner is a division of time warner, whose CEO is Jeff Bewkes, you gigantic retard. Nice backpedal though.

>w-w-why is my conspiracy driven shitpost deleted

>>3394408
>overrepresentation
European whites who make up the majority of the populace versus Jews who make up less than 2%?
>Time Warner
I set that up for the final reveal, drumroll please...
Bewkes is merely the manager. Time was created by Jew Steve Ross and is majority held by the Ross family.

>>3394435
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TWX/holders?p=TWX
The Time Warner biggest individual owner is Jeff Bewkes, and biggest institutional owner is The Vanguard Group, Inc, owned by John C. Bogle.
Not that this is relevant to your previous argument. One has to wonder, given that suddenly ownership is more important than management, why you wasted our time by posting misleading infographs about jews working in the network.
This is typical stormfag behaviour though. Just keep digging until you find some jews among the non jews and claim he's the mastermind behind the conspiracy.

>>3394459
The owners dictate the policy anon. The CEO manages the company.

>John Bogle

Also Jewish anon, here is an article he wrote for the Jewish Policy Center.

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2008/05/31/investing-during-market-turbulence/

You're batting 10/10! Are you fucking with me anon? I feel like you're secretly a stormfag feeding me bait.

>>3394488
False.
http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/Presbyterian06.pdf
Again, this is typical stormfag behaviour. Finding some guy writing an article in a page with jewish in the name and claiming he's jewish. You are either retarded or a pathological liar. Probably both.

>>3394506
Thats a speech he spoke at a 300 year old church's anniversary, not his religion.

>>3394517
>our heritage
>our religious institutions
>Over these past three centuries, Presbyterianism has moved far beyond the inspiration of its seven founders, with their leader, Francis Makemie, among those six larger-than-life statues that guard the Presbyterian Historical Society, just a few blocks from here.1 (1 I was especially struck by one name: David Caldwell (1725-1821). My twin brother, David Caldwell Bogle was named after our great grandfather David Caldwell Hipkins.)
>our oldest churches
Are you pretending to be retarded?

From the reviews of his biography:
>I was curious to know Bogle's religious affiliation--I thought he might be a Quaker, but, no, he is an Episcopalian who attends Presbyterian services (p. 198). A self-described "religious person," he is a regular churchgoer but, Braham says, "takes religion with a grain of salt."
https://www.amazon.com/The-House-that-Bogle-Built/product-reviews/0071749063/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_show_all?reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1

I'm eager to hear what incredible mental juggles you perform to blame DA JOOS this time.

>>3394535
>our heritage
>our religious institutions
The entire opening preamble is him discussing various religions and their length and impact, note how he says "religious institutions" and not "Presbyterian" or "church" institutions.
>raised Episcopalian
By his mother Mrs. Bogle neé Hipkins

Numerous jews are raised partly in non-jewish faith by their jewish parent's gentile spouse- other examples are Journalist/talk show host Bill Maher or General Wesley Clark.

>>3394568
Welp, I'm now convinced that you are purposefully lying to further the stormfag agenda and not just a misled retard. I've given more than enough evidence that he is a christian, your insistence with absolutely no contradicting evidence is obviously ideologically motivated. As usual with stormniggers, you believe whatever you want and will rationalize anything that contradicts it.

>>3394568
>>3394605
http://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet/org.oclc.lac.ui.DialABookServlet?oclcnum=712597967
>William Yates Bogle, Jr., was born in Montclair, New Jersey, in 1896. In 1920 he married Josephine Lorraine Hipkins, born in Brooklyn, also in 1896. Both came from wealthy, respected Scottish American families
Here comes the next mental juggle...

>>3393120
Kek, what a lame post.

So, how did the germans burn 750,000 -> 1 millions jews, using no fuel or wood, by spreading them accross two train tracks, and setting the 3 storey high mass of bodies on fire?

Is this feasible?

Do bodies simply burn from their fuel, into literal dust, bones, teeth and all?

is this realistic?

Because this is the official treblinka 11 narrative.

If you got 750,000 lambs, stacked them up like logs, and took a lighter to them, would they burn to dust, so much so that there remains no trace of their having even eixsted? that no bones, teeth, hips, skulls remain?

>>3391857
They aren't. I was talking to a survivor of Belsen and he openly said the exaggeration of the horror is hurting the truth and enables people like you.

>>3393000
he's not lying, those people in the pic are jews tho..

>>3391244
Do you have the German version + a link?

Not doubting the authenticity of these entries, btw.

>>3391607
>Didn't find anything specific after short googling
Lazy google search as argument once again

>>3394932
Everything burns.