>The Soviets outnumbered Germans 3:1 at Kursk >still managed

>attacking force suffers more casualties than the defenders
Wow how unexpected

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>>3385009
They were called "human wave tactics" for a reason anon

I think soldiers themselves where just incredibly dumb and got themselves killed. By the end of war soviet officers had learned a thing or two(Bagration was a beauty of an operation).
Also >>3385020

>>3385009
ENDLESS
SOVIET
WAVES

>>3385009
K/D ratio is irrelevant hogwash.

>>3385020
>>3385030
Germans were the attacking force you brainlets.

>>3385009
>K/D ratio
>clearly Germany should have won this team deathmatch!

>>3385061
>After the German offensive stalled on the northern side of the salient, on 12 July the Soviets commenced their Kursk Strategic Offensive Operation with the launch of Operation Kutuzov (Russian: Кyтyзoв) against the rear of the German forces in the northern side. On the southern side, the Soviets also launched powerful counterattacks the same day, one of which led to a large armoured clash, the Battle of Prokhorovka. On 3 August, the Soviets began the second phase of the Kursk Strategic Offensive Operation with the launch of Operation Polkovodets Rumyantsev (Russian: Пoлкoвoдeц Pyмянцeв) against the German forces in the southern side of the Kursk salient.
80% of the battles was a soviet offensive brainlet

>>3385061
>After the German offensive stalled on the northern side of the salient, on 12 July the Soviets commenced their Kursk Strategic Offensive Operation with the launch of Operation Kutuzov (Russian: Кyтyзoв) against the rear of the German forces in the northern side. On the southern side, the Soviets also launched powerful counterattacks the same day, one of which led to a large armoured clash, the Battle of Prokhorovka. On 3 August, the Soviets began the second phase of the Kursk Strategic Offensive Operation with the launch of Operation Polkovodets Rumyantsev (Russian: Пoлкoвoдeц Pyмянцeв) against the German forces in the southern side of the Kursk salient.
Nice job brainlet

>>3385061
Germans were exception because of their unorthodox tactics at the start of the war, even they themselves were excpecting higher loses, towards end of war casulty rate balanced out, still in favour for germs, but not as much.

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>>3385061
>battles only have 1 phase

>>3385061
>K/D ratio is irrelevant hogwash.
It's pretty relevant though. Generally a very high rate of attrition signifies something went very wrong for one side.

>>3385009

>Attack a country with 5 times your population
>Complain when they take advantage of their superior numbers

>>3385009
>>The Soviets outnumbered Germans 3:1 at Kursk>still managed to rack up 4 times bigger casualties

Source? Because those numbers are fictional.

>>3385009
>German tank has no turret after hit
>towed to base
>doesnt count as loss
>Soviet tank lose track
>count as lost
Why were soviets so honest and germans so dishonest?

>>3385135
Since when have german """""people""""" been honest about anything?

>k/d ratio
>mattering
Wow I guess the vatican city would beat russia in a war then

ITT this thread; buttblasted commies

>>3385009
I fucking hate the K/D meme.
>someone posts a cuckoldpedia screencap
>X are fighting against the Y
>X are sieging Y's heavily fortified castle
>Y wins while heavily outnumbered
>WOW X BTFO HOW CAN X EVEN RECOVER
>HAHAHA X FAGGOTS EXPLAIN YOURSELF
>X ON SUICIDE WATCH
Every fucking time. It's basically combining /int/ shitposting with /pol/ knack for utterly simplifying everything and with total brainletry

>>3385009
By having tanks whose engines didn't explode from looking at a hill

>>3385009
War isn't a videogame

My grandpa was at Kursk. Got both his legs shredded with shrapnel, was in a hospital for a year. Returned to front and immediately was shot in a middle finger in Berlin.

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>>3385328
What can you expect from the ADD Call of Duty generation?

soviets lost tactically but won operationally

learn2clausewitz

>>3385009
because unlike the germans the soviets understood basic concepts like having reserves testing equipment before you put it into battle

the germans literally went all in on the first day of the offensive with no forces spare, so the moment their offensive stalled they were basically fucked and had no mobile reserves. furthermore since they had committed all their best troops and suffered huge casualties and were no longer in prepared defensive positions they were now basically in the worst possible position so the soviets launched like a bazillion counterattacks with the many divisions of fresh forces they had been holding behind their lines for exactly such an eventuality.

the germans may have killed more russians but it simply didnt matter, most of the germans who died were battle hardened professional soldiers whose deaths were pretty pointless since they couldnt even force a breakthrough. the soviets on the other hand had like a bazillion replacements and keep feeding meat into the grinder until the German lines collapsed.

>>3385376
Was he deploying said middle finger? Cause if so, that would have been an awesome fucking scene.

>>3385113
Germans suffered horrendous losses in both BoF and Barbarossa.

>>3385328
Agreed. People are afraid of black people fucking up kid's perception of war in videogames when their brains are already rotten.

>>3385020
Soviets started out defending stalingrad you dumb tankie

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>"I must unite the Russian people under one grave"
>"The Russian soldier's greatest destiny is becoming the manure for the motherland's future"
>"Zerg rush KEKEKE"

>>3385113
You really need to look at how many they lost in the "easy" Poland campaign, it's honestly pretty embarrassing, especially the aircraft losses

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>>3385009
The only way to stop a Blitzkrieg:

Defense in DEPTH

German autism lost them the war in general.

>>3386051
at the end of the day german autism is the answer to most questions about WW2

>>3385009
>soviet victory wasn't fair they lost more soldiers boohoohoo waaaaaaaaaah

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>>3386016

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/thread

>>3385009
They were being supplied by the US and Germany was increasingly having to split their military forces along multiple fronts.

>>3386090
explain deep battle to a military strategylet.
>dude what if we just punched through their lines and attacked their rear
this is what Wikipedia leads me to believe it is, but it can't be that simple right?

>>3386134
It's the opposite of the Memekreig, instead of focusing on a single point you go front wide and find several weak points to infiltrate through and BTFO their reserves and command infrastructure

>>3386134
At least in Tucashevksy's original writinsg and vision on the matter, it involved wide lateral movement, an attempt to stretch or outflank your opponent in the huge expanse of the USSR, to find one (or more) weak points in their line, punch through, and chew up their rear.

In practice, it became more and more like German operational doctrine towards the end of the war; it was much too difficult to coordinate multiple strikes at once, and usually only one (at best) would work.

>>3386149
Except of course that it really only started working when they stopped those frontwide attacks. For every Uranus, the spreading out of assaults ensured you had an operation like Mars going on at the same time.

>>3386163
The front wide attacks are intended to tie down possible reserves though, I also forgot to mention how important deceiving the opponent about where you were going to strike is which generally means feints on other front to draw attention

>>3386134
to sum it up super simply, the idea is to kind of take world war one grand offensives, but firstly actually break through enemy lines and then basically keep them going for miles past the enemies frontline without losing momentum, rather than having to stop every time you reach the extent of your artillery's range to bring it forward.

its a deep battle because the battle starts at the front and amkes a massive strategic breakthrough and moves further and further into the enemies rear, not stopping and following a specific strategic direction.

contrast this with german maneuver warfare (inaccurately labelled blitzkreig) where they make tactical breakthroughs and then send super maneuverable units into the breach to seize important objectives, destroy command and control structure and encircle the enemy resulting in massive tactical success that, if repeated results in strategic victory.

the germans focus on bypassing strong points and encircling and destroying combat units to achieve victory, while deep battle is all about punching a massive hole and then pouring so many men and tanks into the breach the enemy has to retreat for hundreds of miles before they have any hope of mounting a successful defense.

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>>3385328
What about when the ones in fortified possition are the ones with superior numbers and yet still lose?

>>3386186
The Prussians were obviously lulling them into a false sense of security of course

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>>3385009
they were like rats, they were countless, no matter how much you kill, the next day you find another wave of them

>>3386163
>In practice, it became more and more like German operational doctrine towards the end of the war
well deep battle and "blitzkreig" are actually essentially the same concept, using mobility and firepower to negate your opponents defensive advantages, remove their ability to fight in an organized manner and then destroy their army.

deep battle is just adapted to a massive conscript army while the germans methods were suited to well trained professional army

>>3386172
Ehh, I know that's the official Soviet line, but if they were simply spoiling/pinning attacks, you don't think they'd be as big as they were. Often times, these forces were all more or less equal in size and mechanization, again, look at the Uranus-Mars setup.

>>3386218
I would argue that Deep Battle (or at least, Tucashevsky Deep Battle), is more an attempt to work around the geography of Russia/Belorussia/Eastern Poland/Ukraine, with wide flat open spaces but poor local infrastructure which makes moving armies along a single axis difficult and gives you a wide area you need to cover to avoid being flanked, rather than the difference in army composition. Western Europe, in comparison, was far more developed and far more narrow in a pure geographic sense. I mean fuck, most of the Wehrmacht were conscripts too.

Still though, as you see the war dragging on, The Red Army tended to narrow its offensive scopes, and have rolling offensives rather than simultaneous ones.

>>3385061
>K/D ratio is irrelevant hogwash
.3 bread rations have been deposited into your pravda bank account

>>3385024

Grant made his career on human wave tactics and he is labelled a military genius by some.