If colonial exploitation is to blame for the dismal state of

>>3384782
Colonial exploitation is only one of the various issues responsible for the state of modern africa

>>3384782
As this anon stated here>>3384795
As well as the unique history of Africa as a whole from the Pied Noir settlement of Algeria to the pre-colonial yet imperialistic and economic conditions of pre-19th century Africa as well.

This of course isn't even talking about the Cold War era proxy wars and the western nations propping dictatorship for cheaper resource extraction.

Ultimately, colonialism was only one part of a chain of social and economic development that lasted for thousands of years.

Africa came out behind primarily because it came in behind.

Also, no smallpox to kill everybody as in the Americas.

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>>3384782
I'm tired of this /pol/ shit. The same thread posted over and over with only tiny tedious variations.

Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, etc... are White-majority and they are fucking SHITHOLES.

Explain that retard.

>>3384839
>slavs
>white

>>3384839
>>3384847
Also (((communism)))

>>3384851
So there was no communism in Africa?
Oh wait

>>3384851
That kinda is rendered null considering the functional East Euro and central Euro state that were in the iron curtain.

>>3385022
Also most places that were bad pre-Soviet rule were pretty ass in the grand scheme of things.

>>3384839
Ukraine is weird. It was one of the richest parts of the USSR, at the time they declared independence, they were richer than Poland. Now it's the shittiest country in Europe if not the world.

>>3385040
>It was one of the richest parts of the USSR, at the time they declared independence, they were richer than Poland
lmao

>>3384847
Slavs are whiter than West Europeans

Neocolonialism doesn't happen in America or Asia

>>3384839
Russians happened

>>3384820
this

>>3384851
>le (((ebin))) (((meme)))
(((XDDD)))
Czechia and the former East Germany seem to be doing okay.

>>3384782
yes and no, history is never simple

when most african countries became independent in teh 60s they were in a lot of cases better off than south korea and india and a bunch of asia

however they faced a couple of unique challenges others didnt
>infrastructure built entierly for extraction of raw materials and nothing else
>very large, low density countries
>borders essentially completely random, very little sense of nationality
>very little educational facilities, most important technical jobs done by white colonisers who then left
>cold war going on, soviets and burgers trying to depose regimes left right and center

despite this the 60s and 70s were an alright time for a lot of africa, they exported raw materials and cash crops, usually by implementing state control of the economy, and amde money. they also took out loans. they used this to build infrastructure and invest in education. life was good

but there were problems, economic slowdown in teh west meant reduced demand for african crops, a fair amount of the money they got was poorly invested in showpiece projects. furthermore teh insurgencies raging in countries still ruled by europeans, and bush wars funded by the cold war were intensifying and resulting in increasing influx of arms to teh region.

then the 80s came, the 80s were not africa's decade. increased international competition and rising energy prices led to declining national revenues causing falling wages and living conditions. this caused debt crisis in many countries as thye found intrest payments increasingly difficult to meet. in the late 70s most indpendence movements were successful in africa but their success was usually followed by civil wars between soviet and american aligned factions. most of the continent stagnated and this is when it really started falling behind the rest of the world in development terms, especially when it was overtaken by asia.

continued in next post

>>3384782
>>3384839
Low IQ in both cases
Naturally low for Sub-Saharans, artificially low due to pollution and fallout for Slavs

>>3384782
I'm no historian, but in my understanding most latin-american countries were colonized earlier and for longer, giving them some time to acclimate to Western traditions of government. Europeans conquered an left Africa in a much shorter timeframe.

>>3384782
europeans live there

but nah the real reason is they were already civilisations.

No it's just a coincidence that the most heavily colonized places are still the least wealthy, and the places that did the most colonizing are still the most wealthy.

>>3386737
then comes the 90s, when it all goes to shit. first off the end of the cold war was actually pretty bad for africa, soviet investment in teh continent disappeared overnight leaving massive holes in many countries economies. furthermore since the US no longer feared regimes switching to communism their investment, and european investment, declined sharply. furthermore the flooding of the black market with soviet arms led to rebels groups across teh continent becoming far better armed and further intensification of conflict.

eventually governments ended up having to seek help paying their debts, teh IMF came in and implemented 'restructuring' basically neoliberal economic policies to get rid of state control and bring in the free market. however this was totally counterproductive, teh state monopolies were the only thing providing any kind of economic stability and without them organizing exportation of cash crops economies collapsed left right and centre. furthermore austerity measures implemented to repay debts meant mass laying off of civil servants and mass evasion of tax. there was pretty much a continent wide economic collapse and a corresponding collapse in state control in large areas of most countries.

at this point the only sources of wealth left on the continent are mines, and with jobs rare and weapons in plentiful supply pretty quickly all kinds of armed groups form trying to seize control of these natural resources. these conflict take on increasingly chaotic nature as many governments literally only control the capital city, rebels get crazier and crazier, eventually resulting in hands getting chopped off, cannibal warlords and genocide.

so yeah teh 90s is an economic collapse, turned into societal collapse turned bloodbath.

cont

>>3386793
so eventually the 'west' gets its shit together and realizes that tehy need to forgive africas debts and intervene to prop up states to stop the ridiculous violence going on there. towards teh end of the 90s most of the violence was put to an end and steadily increasing demand for natural resources from china has fueled a return to economic growth in africa, however a lot of the problems left by the colonizers still remain. furthermore most african regimes were corrupt from the get go and essentially became legitimized racketeering networks in the 80s and 90s and this hasn't really gone away.

also democracy in africa is a bad joke

>>3386793
>>3386812

The Nineties saw less investment but not any reduction in debt.

This is debt that was always taken by unelected leaders, often already deposed, and always paid by taxing everyone.

>>3386812
>also democracy in africa is a bad joke
They've made some great strides though, just look at the Kenyan election

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Rwanda did gud tho.

The only thing that are slowing them down are lack of access to sea and resorting to meme-tier energy generation (to appease western donors)

>>3384782
Communism did more to promote the wealth inequality it promised to destroy than all of the colonial regimes combined.
A far better correlation, and a global one is how communist these nations have historically been and how rich/poor they are.

>>3386877
Yeah, only a few people died instead of dozens and they're going back to the polls in October to do it all again! Kenya is fucked and always has been, Tanzania just to the south is much more stable

>>3386883
Kagame is no better than Mugabe !

>>3384782
>If colonial exploitation is to blame for the dismal state of sub-Saharan Africa

It isnt
Africans being backward subhumans is the cause of them being conquered, not the result

>>3386908
The fact that the sitting president would allow a second round of voting is an incredible step forward, and yes people did die but so many fewer than previous elections and fewer compared to other countries, bringing in independent arbitrators to ensure fairness, allowing the election to be covered by reports, all huge strides

>>3386922
>t. butthurt congolese

>>3386922
Kagame didn't destroy a white nation, so no, Mugabe is worse.

>>3386928
Doesn't change the fact Kenya is a shithole and a horrible mistake of British policy, after Mau-Mau they should have killed every Kikuyu. Would have been a huge improvement

>>3386737
>>3386793
>>3386812
Quality posts but your mispellings are triggering my autism like no tomorrow

>>3386737
>>3386793
>>3386812
Good read

>>3386883
Most of the tiny third world countries try to go full renewable because it means Westerners pay for their infrastructure.

>>3384782
but Nigeria and Southern Africa are wealthier than the parts of Asia colonized by Europeans aside from Malaysia/ME-countries?

>>3384782
A better question is, why are Equatorial Guinea and Gabon doing so much better than pretty much all of their neighbors?

>>3386956
Malaysia was a poor nation back then. The richest country in SEA back then was the flip, which was actually behind Japan in Asia.

It took several massive land reforms for malaysia to play catch up with philippines in late 80s/early 90s

>>3386956
Sssssh you're ruining the narrative.

>>3386961
They're the Gulf States of Africa.

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>>3386883
Nyabarongo hydroelectric plant was a mistake

>>3386975
>Malaysia was a poor nation back then.
Malaysia was an Asian Tiger

>>3386932
Rhodesia was never a white nation at all.

>>3386737
>south korea and india and a bunch of asia

South Korea had a war but pre war it was better. India has a much higher educated pool of people and investment from Indians and brits. Burma as a mere case was originally thought to become rich because it was a smaller India but somehow it turned into a least developed nation in the 80's with a rash of horrible policies.

>>3387301
Not in the 60s/70s they are not.

It's only when they have sorted massive land reforms (and increasing cash crop production), that they had more time/money to invest in manufacturing industry

>>3386975
It's worth noting tho that the filipino gdp was reliant on cash crops, not industrial or financial output. It was sort of a given that they'd fall behind as other countries actually made an effort to industrialize and move away from an agricultural economy, rather than put all their eggs into land reform.

>>3386737
>>3386793
>>3386812
Good read anon, Its interesting that Asia in the 50s had the same economy as Africa was, my grandfather used to work with african diplomats during non alignment movement in the 60s

>>3387351

How about that World Bank and IMF constantly advising countries in crisis to invest in cash crops?

Not the UK, of course. They got sweet loan deals.

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>>3387344
We have Mahathir

>>3384795
>>3384820
>>3384825
These, desu.

>>3384839
Soviet foreign policy fucked them over and transitioning from a planned economy to a market one overnight is a bad idea.

>>3387370
It's not a bad proscription per se. As you said regarding Malaysia, cash crop income was/is reinvested in other industry. That really is smart policy, doing what you do good right away so you can sustain yourself and work on what you don't do so good in, like making things or serving things. The problem with the filipino economy was, well, it never really did that. Land reform was the main topic even when the economy was doing well, as if it was supposed they could just be a cash crop economy indefinitely. Now that it's trying to diversify after the marcos stagnation and post-EDSA disorganization it's in a pretty shit position, one that it cannot fix with cash crops.

>>3387370
It's not about cash crop per se, it's about diversification. Naturally cash crops offers extra cash for poor peasants, provide employments to general populace as well as some hard cash to govt coffer.

In flipland case, this sector could only do so much to their economy. They failed to industrialize when countries like malaysia and thailand were actively investing in both infrastructure and manufacturing sector (using money they've got from commodity sector). Couple that with marcos' wild ride, shit was bound to implode and boy it did, spectacularly, during asian financial crisis of 1997

Don't make me say it

>>3385040
Government instability and civil war tends to do that.

>>3387422
It did a lot, actually. For a very brief period before the second world war per capita gdp and (urban) income made flipland a first world country, all on cash crops. They deserve some credit for that, even if it was based off some pretty extreme circumstances, namely the rest of the first world reeling from sustained economic depression.

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>>3386956
Economy isnt everything
When OP said "the state of African countries", he meant overall

Nigeria may have a slightly better economy than say Vietnam or Burma thank to ressource and Chinese investments, but it's still many times shittier and backward simply because nigger gonna nig

Pic related

>>3386975
>>3387344

Is Malaysia's land reform really that successful or is it just an exaggeration?

>>3387470
Very successful

>>3387470
About as successful as any other program of land reform. Land reform is actually quite a simply program, it's simply that sometimes political landscapes make it more difficult to achieve than it otherwise would be.

>>3387470
Well I'd be happy if we can even achieve half of what they did here.

Kinda ironic that it was a filipino that oversaw malaysian land reform projects yet we still couldn't replicate it after some 30 years later

http://business.inquirer.net/236597/visit-rural-malaysia

>>3387465
Anon Vietnam has massive Chinese investments too.

>>3384782
Neocolonialism.

>>3384782
It obviously isn't. All things considered they were doing pretty shit before and pretty shit after when compared to the rest of the world but at least they now have modern technologies they wouldn't have had before

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>>3387548
Wrong
Neocolonialism tries to civilize these shitholes

>>3387315
I wasn't aware that Rhodesia existed before whites showed up.

>>3386589
Its not a meme. Communism was a jewish idea.

>>3388135
Karl Marx was a vocal critic of Judaism.

>>3388143
>Mike Tyson was a vocal critic of niggers
>therefore he isn't one

>>3388143
Lots of jews are against religion, all the most dangerous jews are non-religious.

>>3388040
Because the entire nation was propped up on the Black underclass of labourers and workers and could not function without them. who's gonna be your farm labourers and miners and house servants?

The entire nations paranoia and laws revolved around Blacks autistically so.

>>3388551
>Because the entire nation was propped up on the Black underclass of labourers and workers and could not function without them. who's gonna be your farm labourers and miners and house servants?
Ah of course, I forget how Rhodesia has existed for thousands of years under black only rule. How silly of me.

>The entire nations paranoia and laws revolved around Blacks autistically so.
Because those who created the nation (whites) were rightfully aware that blacks were most likely to be their downfall. In the end they were justified and blacks ruined the whole thing.

>>3386956
South Africa was settled by white people, like Australia and Canada they made an effort to make it a nicer place to live than pure exploitation colonies.

>>3387465
>Mexico high HDI
This chart seems inaccurate

>>3387022
Why?

>>3384795
The absolute STATE of modern Afrikkka

>>3386883
So rwanda had nice building, what's the big deal?

>>3388999
Maybe it's high HDI in the grand scheme of things? They have a functioning state and infrastructure

>>3389664
Overpriced, plagued with delays and cost overruns(it was supposed to be finished 3 fucking years ago), the design is outdated and for a dam with such size, it can only generate about 28MW electricity from its two turbine which I bet is the same design from 20, 30 years ago. To say how "advanced" indian civil engineering (and indian engineering in general) are

China offered to build another dam for roughly the same size (and price) but this time, it will have 4 turbine with installed capacity of 120MW, more than quadruple the energy generation of this Nyabarongo hydro plant

http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/189015/

....But no, instead they turned to the same indian company that build the existing obsolete hydro plant that will add a paltry 17MW to existing 28MW it generates, with more delays and cost delay almost guaranteed

http://ktpress.rw/2017/02/india-and-rwanda-seal-nyabarongo-ii-power-deal/

I know Kagame tried play a juggling act with chinese and indian influence but he really got ripped off big time by india

>>3384782
Because it's not the cause, it's an excuse.
South Korea, Singapore and Romania were all in a similar or worse state than Ghana when it became independent. Japan and Germany were still mostly leveled.
Sixty years later, Ghana is still one of the best African countries but hasn't advanced much at all, while Singapore and SK and even Romania have moved far ahead.

>>3389942
>Japan and Germany were still mostly leveled.

They both had a legitimate ruling base with modern experience , mass education, developed previously and much better economies and American help post war as a bulwark to soviet influence.

>>3389942
>what is marshall plan

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>>3389699
>Mexico
>high functioning state

>>3389942
Singapore is a massive trade hub (basically everything in Asia goes through it) with a much larger educated base of Chinese middlemen.

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>>3389694
That's the institute of statistics training centre, among few of specialized tertiary education institution that Rwanda is building to increase its pool of skilled workers (along with teachers college and teaching hospitals), supplementing existing universities and polytechnics

Back then, to drive Rwanda's development, a lot of professionals (doctors, engineers, economists) were recruited from neighboring uganda, kenya and even zimbabwe but now the focus is to develop local talents for next stage of growth

Certainly make a lot of sense than buying new fighter jets, presidential jets and mercs for high ranked officials

>>3389942
>declare independence
>ask for loans to industrialize your country
>Western World: lol no
>ask the Commies
>they agree
>Murrica: oh shit, are they commies now?
>putsch, coup, civil war
>repeat

>>3388692
Rhodesia fucked itself up because it was too autistic to deal with the problem that could ahve been dealt with decades. Ago fucks sake ONE GUY (Garfield Todd) was like maybe "we shouldn't be dicks to the Africans" and he got kicked from PM because white supremacy was the name of the game in Rhodesia.

>In response, Todd's ministers resigned en bloc, and following the appointment of a new cabinet, his party forced him out of power; three months later he was replaced as party leader and Prime Minister by Edgar Whitehead

>Ah of course, I forget how Rhodesia has existed for thousands of years under black only rule. How silly of me.

Stop being obtuse Rhodesia only functioned with it's mining and framing profits off the backs of extremely underpaid African labour with no rights and obsessively tailored it's polices to gimping said population to retain it's social supremacy. It was a "white nation" but only because of the very negros they despised.

>>3390013
I don't want to be mean but the Rwandan average IQ is not high enough to benefit from such institutions. Even if the software is there, the hardware just isn't.

>>3390031
It does benefit form those though by being a place of education and one where people can actually improve themselves and their community by getting more educational training and filling skills gaps.

Your mentality is pretty much a catch-22 of underdevelopment leading to more underdevelopment because "it ain't worth it lol they can't use it" which has fucked up education in colonial settings (racial beliefs fucking with policy).

>>3390003
>>3389942
The primary advantage of Singapore, and how they sold themselves as a trade hub even though they were basically a poverty-stricken swamp and there were other strategically placed options in the Malacca Strait like Malaysia's Port Klang, was that they had a functioning and educated civil service established by the British that kept the country running through the hard times, educated leaders who knew what had to be done to sell Singapore to the world, and a harbour that they managed to convince the British not to dynamite on their way out.

>>3390054
The real question is can africans be educated. All the evidence points towards "no", because their IQ is not high enough.

A good example is the US public school system. Billions of dollars poured into what are basically glorified daycare/prisons.

People make the fallacy of thinking that intelligence and education are the same thing. They're not.

>>3390031
It's basically to upskill existing statisticians so they could do more specialized works. Plenty of sectors needs statisticians and being able to train them locally would save a lot of hard currency

http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/216731/

>>3390031
why don't you actually go to an african country and interact with the people there
they aren't stupid

>>3390087
>existing statisticians
All 3 of them? Probably indians too, kek.
Africans would be much happier if they reverted back to their traditional lifestyle. Civilization is not for them.

>>3390094
I've actually been to an African country, and they really are pretty dumb by western standards.

>>3388999
Mexio being a pretty nice place to live in the grand scheme of things makes the whole illegal immigration thing even funnier. Although a lot of illegals are from central america these days.

>>3390066
Meritocracy is yo answer. The problem with american education is that positive discrimination allows for less deserving people to go through simply due to their skin colour. There is no such thing in Rwanda when everyone else is about as melanin-rich as the next guy.

Besides, the fact that plenty of kenyan and ugandan professionals working in Rwanda right now shows that there is demand for more skilled workers in Rwanda. It's more sensible and sustainable to train locals to fill in for the jobs instead

>>3390112
>less deserving people to go through simply due to their skin colour.

The select for poor people though who can fit in with the thing they are joining.

>>3390112
You don't understand. Affirmative action exists because of the fact that in a meritocratic society, blacks would not be able to compete against whites or asians because they have a lower average intelligence. The problem with American education is that it makes the assumption that anyone can be educated, when in truth large swathes of the population (and larger swathes in the black community than in the white and asian communities) are simply too stupid to be educated.

You can't train the stupid. You can't train the average African. I feel really sorry for intelligent Africans, it must be really disheartening to be surrounded by retards.

>>3390066
You have no idea what you are talking about, honest to God you really don't.

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miss me yet?

>>3390065
>they were basically a poverty-stricken swamp

They were pretty developed for a city state actually.

>>3390131
>triggered
Truth hurts.

>>3390094
Not him but I was in Nigeria some time.
They are pretty much worse than I imagined. The males mostly scammers than only a bleeding hearth would trust, the Hausa and the Ibo (i think they were called that, one of the fuckton of tribes) were in a low civil war killing each others, the higiene in the cities was fucking awful apart of the expat parts, in the country was nearly non existent. Everyone tried to swindle money from you in the most plain way, Asians at least try to do so with some class. I tought Anglo women were loose, nigerians simply didn't see to care to cheat if they could get away with it, talking with them half of them didn't see to care past getting money for today drink (if they were yoruba,in average I would say they were the most decent, if savage looking people there, muslims and the majority seemed to drink alchol tough) and the village elder seemed to loom over all of them or something. The food the less I talk about the better.

>>3390095
You can check national institute of statistics rwanda website if you really want to know more about rwanda's statistics department.

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>>3390136
>South Africa's fuckboy and inferior in every sense of the word.

No thanks

>>3390118
>You can't train the stupid
It really shows. Have you considered doing the world a favor and off yourself?

>>3390141
>Asians at least try to do so with some class.

Haha that's a complete farce if I ever heard one.

>>3390144
I'm sure it's a world leading institute... lol.

>>3390149
Not an argument.

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>>3390147
>inferior in every sense of the word
how does it feel being incorrect

>>3390149
It's like this whole anti-education faggotry (or hell anti-talent) spouted in America (or other western nations encountering non-western folk specifically) where any aptitude or inaptitiude in ANYTHING is away explained off by genetics or race or any failures or issues blamed on genetics or race because they can't accept failure that can be sourced to themselves or the actions of some organizations.

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>>3390166
The genetic explanation is far more convincing (and supported by empirical evidence) than the "cultural" position
>if we just raise taxes pic related will become a rocket scientist!

>>3390162
Stop Jacinta off to muh military feats like you Rhodie-poo. In every single field South Africa trumped Rhodesia and basically crept into it with it's mass looming presence of being dominated by the Sinister Saffer.

>>3390157
>I'm sure it's a world leading institute

Where do you get that notion?

>>3390191
Do you not understand sarcasm?

>>3390205
It is dismissive regardless of the sarcasm or not to be quite frank.

>>3390209
Well yes, that's the point. I wanted to make fun of the "rwandan statistical institute".

>>3390181
>m-m-m-m-uh achievements because of massively higher pop!
go stab another friend in the back

>>3390215
It had a much better economy too. Oh and it's own universities with a long ass historues vs rhodesia which basically had to get their uni education OUTSIDE the nation up until 1952 lol

>>3390224
and its a shithole now
hope it was worth it lol

>>3390214
It does a lot of important things like census and publishing economic data. More data is always good.

>>3390229
You are completely missing the point.

>>3390231
>More data is always good.
I do agree with that. I'm just trying to convey my point, that it is completely dwarfed in terms of importance and achievement by any run of the mill research institute of any mediocre european or american university.

I mean, the way you're presenting it, it's as if it's as important as the institute for advanced study...

>>3390250
It is for rwanda. It means they can train specialized statisticians domestically instead of sending them abroad or hiring expats

>>3390250
He never said they were big in the international thing. He just pointed out that it exists and that it does stiff

>>3390273
>It means they can train specialized statisticians domestically
No it doesn't. Intelligence =/= education. How many times must I repeat myself?

You have blacks who go through 12 years of education and who don't know how to read by the end of it, and you have self-taught geniuses like Heaviside who were deprived of an education but revolutionized physics. I don't know how delusional or how sheltered you must be to believe that education is the progenitor of intelligence.

>>3390283
>cherrypicking
Bell curves and normal distributions, do you know what they are?

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>>3390302
>do you know what they are?
Do you? Funny you'd talk about bell curves, maybe you'd enjoy reading pic related.

>>3390283
Pretty extreme as fuck cases boy. Once again why the fuck are you derailing this shit into Iq Shit? Do you have a fixation on bringing that topic up everywhere or do you have the 'tisms?

>>3390308
> Once again why the fuck are you derailing this shit into Iq Shit?
Maybe because it's relevant to the conversation we're having?
>How dare you bring up intelligence in a debate about intelligence!

>>3390283
>You have blacks who go through 12 years of education and who don't know how to read by the end of it
>you can be illiterate and still pass a Western education system.
Really made me think about the quality of Western civilization.

>>3390312
I think it's no surprise to anyone with critical thinking skills that western civilization is going down the shitter through its blind pursuit of egalitarianism.

>>3389807
Do you speak Swahili?

>>3390066
IQ is greatly influenced by education you moron

>>3390309
We aren't talking about intelligence we are talking about data and Rwanda. Again why the obsession with race and Iq?

>>3390320
It's barely influenced by education, IQ is 80% heritable and the remaining 20% is mostly due to the non shared environment, which is a fancy way to say "we don't have a clue". Do you even know anything about IQ, or are you just spouting what you read on Salon.com?

>>3390323
Your initial point was that it was a sign that Rwanda would join the "developed" nations, which I disagree with. My whole argument was centered around the fact that the Rwandan IQ is too low to ever allow the development of a western standard of living. I thought it was obvious from my previous posts that IQ was my main argument, but I guess I overestimated your intelligence.

>>3390326
Then why has Iq gone up in nations that developed? If a country was a 80 it should stay 80 instead if gradually growing as education, nutrition and stability grow.

>>3390332
But korea had rock bottom Iq in its early post waylr years but now it's on top. If korea can do it why not Rwandans? He'll Rwanda us making pretty nice gains in Qol and development.

>>3390337
>Then why has Iq gone up in nations that developed?
The Flynn effect is mostly due to nutrition, just like westerners have gotten taller during the 20th century.

The relevant points are:
>The Flynn effect has stopped in the West since the late 1980s
>The black/white IQ gap in the USA has remained constant throughout the 20th century. American blacks also benefited from the Flynn effect, and their "final" IQ is 85.

American blacks are also much smarter than African blacks, due to white ancestry and eugenic pressures (before the 1960s). As such we shouldn't even expect the African average IQ to reach such levels.

>>3390340
Your grammar is atrocious which is already an indicator of low IQ.

Also, Koreans were never tested as having low IQs. The first time Koreans were tested, if I recall correctly, was in Norway/Sweden, with adopted Korean refugees from the Korea war, and they were already scoring above the Norwegian/Swedish average. You're lying.

>>3390341
>American blacks are also much smarter than African blacks, due to white ancestry and eugenic pressures (before the 1960s). As such we shouldn't even expect the African average IQ to reach such levels.

Yet why do African immigrants (who aren't even that rich when coming to America mostly) do better then native blacks?

>>3390354
Also what eugenic pressures?

>>3390354
I think Nigerians in Britain do better than native whites.

>>3390354
Because they're the top 0.01% of Africa. The average African is incredibly retarded.

>>3390357
Blacks faced hardships which intelligent blacks were more likely to overcome.

>>3390358
Top 0.01%

>>3390360
>>3390363

No they aren't. Most are just regular people who wanted to do well for themselves or their kid

>>3390363
>Blacks faced hardships which intelligent blacks were more likely to overcome.

Lol with. Intelligent blacks faced massive Bullshit they couldn't overcome due to the society at the time. You reasoning just feels so adhoc. What specific hardships do you mean? How the hell would they be eugenic considered eugenics wouldn't even be applicable at that instance (culling of births, people begetting kids based off of scientific analysis if desired traits in each person).

>>3390419
Are you saying slavery was eugenic because you can make up endless Bullshit on why black Americans are good/shit at anything.

Every thing train of logic used to advocate something about blacks always had the converse said about them.

>>3390407
>regular people
Regular people aren't legally admitted in the USA

>>3390419
It was a do or die society. The most enterprising blacks were usually those smart enough to escape in the times of slavery, who formed the northern elite blacks (and who still dominate in the black community today). After emancipation, the black living standard quickly deteriorated, as they were not guaranteed food on the table anymore, but rather were with everyone else a subject of the free market. The Black community showed some interesting developments in that time period, for instance Booker T. Washington, or the Tuskegee airmen. It's not that hard to imagine that those enterprising blacks would've had more children reaching the adult age than some poor black in bumfuck Mississippi. Anyways, all that reversed in the 60s when low IQ black single mothers became the major "producers" of black people in the USA.

>>3390407
Yes they are. It's INCREDIBLY hard to get into America if you don't already have family here (which spics abuse like no tomorrow).

>>3390432
Lottery system and refugees.

>>3390440
He was probably thinking of H1b and other deserving immigrants. Talking about the lottery system probably doesn't help the case of the "smart african immigrant"

>>3390429
And most blacks died and many blacks that dud "well" were fucked by society so they had much less ways to attain success compared to the average white. Even if a few did well that doesn't omit the vast majority who floundered.

They had to go to poor underfunded black universities instead if the ones everyone else went to. Businesses couldn't get loans or in many areas got targeted by mobs. School institutions were segregated design jure and densities factor in various parts.

>>3390441
Those immigrants like many other immigrants in the us really drill education into their kids heads. Especially the many that are educated by don't have it recognized in the US.

>>3390447
Right, but averaging everything, the smart blacks were more successful.

>>3390451
They drill education into their kids' heads probably because they are legacy British Empire civil servants who recognize the superiority of western civilization and who hope that their children will live in such a society. They are a tiny upper crust of the elite of their country, and not at all representative of the masses.

>>3390440
You sure?
>In the 1960s and 1970s after the Biafra War, Nigeria's government funded scholarships for Nigerian students, and many of them were admitted to American universities. While this was happening, there were several military coups, interspersed with brief periods of civilian rule. The instability resulted in many Nigerian professionals emigrating, especially doctors, lawyers and academics, who found it difficult to return to Nigeria.
>During the mid- to late-1980s, a larger wave of Nigerians immigrated to the United States. This migration was driven by political and economic problems exacerbated by the military regimes of self-styled generals Ibrahim Babangida and Sani Abacha. The most noticeable exodus occurred among professional and middle-class Nigerians
>This exodus contributed to a "brain-drain" of Nigeria's intellectual resources to the detriment of its future.
They're all upper middle to upper class.

>>3390468
No they're not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

For an elite immigrant group, they're pretty pathetic.

>>3390440
>>3390468
Also, regarding refugees. If you want to see what an almost exclusively refugee population of blacks in the US looks like, look at Somalis. BIggest retards in the entire country, bar none. People who ever lived in Columbus or Minneapolis know.

>>3390481
Read the fucking thing again and carefully this time. I'm saying Nigerian UPPER CLASS EMIGRATED, not that they constitute an upper class in America now.

>>3390483
Always makes me laugh that Minnesotans are mostly of swedish ancestry. The cuckishness is ingrained in their genes, I guess.

>>3390484
Which should speak volumes about the capabilities of this "nigerian upper class",

>>3384839

so you'd rather live in Saudi Arabia than in Eastern Europe? based on that its as good as USA and what not

GDP is a meme

>>3390486
Yup.

>>3390496
Saudi Arabia is better than most of Eastern Europe.

t. Eastern European

>>3384782
Central and South America have unstable economy and governance. They're still fighting guerella warfare and dealing with huge influx of drug lords, funded by CIA.

Southeast Asia and South Asia are dealing with economic slowdowns and factions that are hostile to the central government. Myanmar/Sri Lanka have ethnic problems created by the British colonialism and still remains. India has border problems created by the British gov. Thailand has insurgencies of Islamic militants. SEA also has drug problems which the US military used to fund their wars. SEA is slowly recovering but still has patches to go through.

>>3389989
I said functioning, I didn't say how much

>>3390484
>>3390486
Yet their kids are doing very well

>>3386737
>>infrastructure built entierly for extraction of raw materials and nothing else
That's a piss poor amount of bullshit. Roads from resource areas to the coast/export hubs are fantastic to have and future development can happen along them. This is a massive economic advantage no matter how you slice it. "Nothing else" as if roads meant for shipment somehow preclude civilian use too.

>very large, low density countries
Not a bad thing

>borders essentially completely random, very little sense of nationality
Multiculturalism and diversity is a strength. What are you, some sort of identitarian? The most advanced companies and organizations are the most diverse.

>very little educational facilities, most important technical jobs done by white colonisers who then left
That's a good point. The brain drain effect is also prolonging and making this worse to this day.

>cold war going on, soviets and burgers trying to depose regimes left right and center
Ding ding ding. This is a huge one.

>>3390017
People tend to give loans if you have a decently good pitch and reason to believe they'll get it back. Not the west's fault that there was fuck all for good plans being proposed.

>>3390496
Qatar seemed nice tbf.

>>3392450
>That's a piss poor amount of bullshit. Roads from resource areas to the coast/export hubs are fantastic to have and future development can happen along them. This is a massive economic advantage no matter how you slice it. "Nothing else" as if roads meant for shipment somehow preclude civilian use too.

Lol anon the infrastructure is sorely lacking because you need much more shit asides from roads/trains to and from ports/resource extraction sites. That shit is far form enough for a developing nation which needs proper schools (none of those hodge-podge missionaries schools with zero funding), hopsitals, civic buildings, roads and highways, roads connecting to other countries, more cities, them ilitary etc. Roads meant for shipment have milted usage for civilian use in the long run

Noit only that you need to build all the shit needed to run a nation for ALL the natives. Not just the white administrative class in the city with Indian middle men as is the case in East Africa.

>Not a bad thing
It's fucking horrible. That means your government services have to be distributed over a much larger area that will strain it on top of the obstacles or reaching rural villages/towns. It's 10x easier if 100 people lived in one town for my clinic to serve then that same population spread out over small villages far apart where the sick have to travel long distance to my clinic for example.

>Multiculturalism and diversity is a strength. What are you, some sort of identitarian? The most advanced companies and organizations are the most diverse.

Because the colonial state NEVER CONSTRUCTED A NATIONAL IDENTITY AT ALL. On top of that said states often played groups against each other or favored certain ones over others which further strained relations.

>>3392473
Because certain infrastructure is needed but they don't net profits in the short term which wouldn't really appeal to western companies (especially many that have a high prices to their construction). That isn't to say infrastructure projects weren't rejecting because they were nonviable or too ambitious.

>>3392689
The infrastructure is still a massive boon. It's much better than a lot of other places got.

>>3392710
Businesses and banks make multi-decade investments all the time. The meme about short term only is entirely unfounded speculation by people who have no idea what they're talking about.

>>3392450
>That's a piss poor amount of bullshit. Roads from resource areas to the coast/export hubs are fantastic to have and future development can happen along them. This is a massive economic advantage no matter how you slice it. "Nothing else" as if roads meant for shipment somehow preclude civilian use too.
um, no, because if you want literally anything other than an economy entirely dependent on natural resource extraction its terrible. all strong economies experience or strive towards balanced growth across many sectors, africa was set up so that resource extraction could go way up but the entire rest of the economy basically failed to grow

>Not a bad thing
oh yeah except that urbanization is like the most important factor in developing an economy and is inordinatley harder to pull off in large, sparse countries

>Multiculturalism and diversity is a strength. What are you, some sort of identitarian? The most advanced companies and organizations are the most diverse.
>blah balh blah multiculturalism
yeah because the massive and widespread inter ethnic conflicts in africa have done nothing but good for the continent

>>3392717
>It's much better than a lot of other places got.

Most places got more though because they needed more shit to function vs Africa which was soley a resource extraction place with massive labour pools. You really don't need much in those asides from the absolute bare minimum and some small infrastructure for the administration/ few settlers that live in the colony.

>>3392745
>um, no, because if you want literally anything other than an economy entirely dependent on natural resource extraction its terrible. all strong economies experience or strive towards balanced growth across many sectors, africa was set up so that resource extraction could go way up but the entire rest of the economy basically failed to grow
Right. So the same thing as Canada and any other resource exporter. Use that resource economy as a springboard into other, more stable industries. It can still happen. There's nothing stopping it except for short term thinking by leadership.

>>3392762
Because Canada had the proper institutions developed and other industries as well anon. Completely different case

Also resources are unstable as fuck because of price fluctuations.

>>3392778
Like in Canada during the early/mid 20th century had resources but they also had an educated labour base, modern laws and governance, self rule, equality in the eyes of the law (vs Africa where Africans were second call citizens), better workers rights, ability to conduct trade based on their needs, can trade with whoever they wanted and for the REAL prices of resources instead of the reduced ones that favored the enrollment..

>>3392778
>and other industries as well
Yeah, which came about after Canada's early fur, fish, and lumber raw resource economy. I know resources are unstable.That's literally what I said in that post. What I'm trying to communicate now is that countries should try to use that raw resource export economy to establish other industries, following paths others have already laid out for them. it's not a gamble to do so, it historically and demonstrably works. So why isn't it happening when modern business and organizational technology are more widespread than ever before?

Well, a very select few do. The rest are shortsighted and corrupt, choosing to invest in social welfare programs instead.

>>3392798
Canada was already well into industrialization before the 20th, anon. You need to go back further.

>>3384839
Still infinitely better than literally every country populated by nogs

>>3392335
Not really compared to other immigrant groups.

>>3392805
>What I'm trying to communicate now is that countries should try to use that raw resource export economy to establish other industries

Prices are unstable as hell. Look at the total mess oil is with it;s pricing. Try making a budget that is based off of decent prices then BAM!!! prices get fucked and now all your development/budget plans. African colonies for example had NO other path then being a resource extraction place or a palce filled with cheap labour, they have "no other path" laid out before them so many place have to jump into shit few have experience in.

Social welfare also needs to be heavily invested in like school, health care to help boost the level of your workers skills and to reduce mortality.

Also in Canada's case their shit took a hti after oil prices dropped, Australia is heavily reliant on it's resources and China buying them up.

>>3392857
Dude it comes downs to nigs nigging, compare the UAE to Equatorial Guinea.

>>3392857
I don't understand why you're still trying to argue something I agree with. Prices are unstable. But resource export nations can and do manage to use temporary booms to establish things like manufacturing and other sectors. This IS a proven strategy that economic history clearly fucking supports. How can you both argue
>Social welfare also needs to be heavily invested in like school, health care to help boost the level of your workers skills and to reduce mortality
While at the same time apparently proposing that investments into diversifying the economy aren't feasible? School is literally one of the things I'm talking about as something to invest in; creating a working class capable of something other than unskilled labor. The welfare I referenced as bad are direct welfare payments like South Africa's CSG.

>>3390496
Saudi Arabia is okay. But retards implying African countries are better than Eastern Europe are complete fucktards who probably haven't been to either.

>>3392878
completely different history

Botswana is fairly rich and developed, despite being in Africa, having a black majority and being landlocked. How do you explain that?

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>>3384782
>Southeast Asia
>Not horrible.
You have Muslim Shitholes in some islands, Cambodia and Laos are fucking hopeless. Burma is a warring shithole where every minority wants out of the country. And the Philippines has Latino-Style Caudillismo with supercorrupt politicians along with fighting communists, separatists, and jihadists.

Its right there in Africa levels.

>>3384782
Pre-existing social/government institutions were stronger in Asia and the Americas so they were able to come out somewhat okay. The European powers didn't bother setting up cohesive, non-extractive, pro-social institutions in Africa.

>>3392901
The CSG pretty much helps families pay for better schooling for their kids and support kdis betetr..

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>>3392957
The fact that Flip soldiers wear uniforms means its not Africa levels yet.

>>3392956
An enormous amount of natural resources combined with a very VERY small population riddled with aids.

>>3392957
>Its right there in Africa levels.

Delusion.

Nowhere else has the casual everyday violence and rape seen in African nations.

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>>3392974
>Nowhere else has the casual everyday violence and rape seen in African nations.
Sounds like the Philippines right now.

>>3392969
Then why Congo and pretty much all the rest of the continent is poor as fuck? Africa has a shit load of resources and fertile lands, yet iirc only Botswana got money.

>>3392956
I think it's a fantastic thing and I'm a big fan. I just don't expect it to ever get better than "great 'for Africa' and otherwise just okay" when compared to the rest of the world.

>>3392993
Diamonds

>>3392982

Part of the Phillipines is a war zone

Africa has more violence and rape during supposed peacetime

>>3392956
>Botswana is fairly rich and developed
>>3384839
>Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, etc... are White-majority and they are fucking SHITHOLES.
I gotta love the double standards.
Moldova HDI - 0.699
Botswana HDI - 0.698
The """"rich and developed""" African country is poorer than the literal asshole of Europe.

>>3392956
Moderate politics and strong leadership at critical political junctures. Same reason why Costa Rica stands ahead of its peers.

>>3392974
>Nowhere else has the casual everyday violence and rape seen in African nations.

That is only seen in central Africa though.

>>3392993
Botswana only got it's resources discovered POST-Independence. During British Rule it was a protectorate vs regular old colony and thus the policies typical in other African colonies didn't really occur in Botswana because Botswana offered nothing so the British didn't really need to squeeze everything out of it. So the British in return for getting Botswana were to repel other Europeans and South African military/intruders. Also more say in governance vs other colonies which got NONE.

It was more uniform so divide and conquer strategies weren't used and whites were very small in number so colony polices that sucked their dick but fucked over Africans weren't implemented. Also the transition form traditional rule to modern rule was a normal transition vs other places where African political power and rulers were destroyed/castrated then years later they have to go into a modern system with absolutely no inbetween.

>>3393028
>Comparing a nation to a massive continent. asides form the fact that Africa is not a country you do know many places in Africa are in a state of war. No one said they were all peaceful like CAR, Congo or South Sudan.

>>3384795
60 average IQ and never inventing the wheel doesn't help i reckon.

>>3393076
The wheel is trucking useless unless you discover the "wheel and axle".

Also no one else really "Discovered" the wheel asides form the first guy(s) because everyone through exchange go it from that lol. It's such a non point to bring that shit up.

>>3393105
>trucking

Africans are genetically dumb and violent

We can spam paragraphs making excuses and pussyfooting but it's not complicated

Wherever black Africans exist, in Europe, N America, Brazil, they are dysfunctional

>>3393133
But they do okay in the Caribbean.

>>3393254
Yeah, Haiti is such a peaceful prosperous country.

>>3393427
That's the Moldova of the Carrib anon. Not typical of the place lol.

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>>3393133
>Africans are genetically dumb and violent
Nice meme

>We can spam paragraphs making excuses and pussyfooting but it's not complicated
Well yeah if you're retarded and don't want to find answers

>Wherever black Africans exist, in Europe, N America, Brazil, they are dysfunctional
Again, as someone who's met a person from Caribou, Nice fucking meme.

>>3390066
Surely it's still better to turn the smart proportion of the population into educated workers even if that proportion is less than in eurasian populations.
In fact it might make investing in education more important because they're trying to develop a resource that's relatively rare for them.

>>3393596
>berserk
I have no idea if I should praise those countries for having good taste or shit on them for watching that god awful series

>>3390025
>The founders of a country shouldn't be supreme within the country they founded
What kind of meme is this? Of course white people should have power in their own countries. Rhodesia failed because it was surrounded by existentially hostile nations who had no qualms with violating Rhodesia's sovereignty and autonomy. They were doomed from the start in a decolonized world.

>It was a "white nation" but only because of the very negros they despised.
That's like saying cattle should be allowed to vote in South Dakota because South Dakota's economy would not exist as it does without them. Just because there's 4 heads of cattle for every person in South Dakota doesn't mean the people their owe anything to the cows. I doubt the people of South Dakota hate cattle anymore than the whites of Rhodesia hated blacks, but recognizing that neither should have any role in the governance of their country's is just simple rationalism.

>>3384839

Romania, Belarus and Bulgaria all aren't "Shitholes." Its true they don't have a western standard of living. But they do fairly well if you ignore the gypsies.
Moldova and Ukraine is rather easy. They each have internal struggles going on at the moment and somewhat of a existential crisis.
Just look at Ukraine. Are they Russians? Are they Cossacks? Are they somekind of huns?

>>3393133
But they are superior to whitey though.

>>3394184
Rhodesia failed because it couldn't stop feeding into's it's narcissistic delusions instead of actually accepting reality and developing the nation and treating Blacks like equals (that's all the fucking asked for) which would improve Rhodesia in the long run lol.

Why should Black taxes go towards white institutions and thing like education yet they have no say in their government at all. The entire Rhodesia economy hinged on Blacks being a cheap source of labour and they demanded equality form the farmers to the more educated folk who managed to get an private education within Rhodesia.

>>3394250
The cattle comparison doesn't even make sense at all. Why you didn't use a black American example I'll never know but maybe it's because that would show the holes in your argument.

>>3394250
If blacks wanted to have their own institutions, they should have made them in the first place. There were no black institutions when whites showed up, so whites made their own. They did not owe anything to the blacks, the blacks had no part in the formulation or upkeep of those institutions beyond the role of livestock. If whites never came or Rhodesia, the institutions would not exist. If there were never any blacks in Rhodesia, the institutions would exist. Blacks are not the necessary factor here, whites are. Whites did not want to hand the power of those institutions over to blacks not just because they were created by whites, but also because blacks would not understand how to keep those institutions functioning at a similar level. And in the end, they were vindicated.

>>3394254
The cattle comparison works just as well for blacks in America. Blacks had no part in founding the institutions they were a part of and they had essentially no part in running those institutions. They were little more than tools for the people who did. And now that blacks have a democratic say in how those institutions run, they use it to advance their own position as a group at the expense of the whites who founded and ran those institutions in the first place. They act invasively when given a say within those institutions, just like any rival group would.

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>>3394307
>If blacks wanted to have their own institutions, they should have made them in the first place

They didn't need them in the first place.
>They did not owe anything to the blacks
Except the land and the resources, ignoring everthing else you said.

>Blacks had no part in founding the institutions they were a part of and they had essentially no part in running those institutions
How do you run an institution when your a slave and have no rights to do anything?

>They were little more than tools for the people who did
duh

>And now that blacks have a democratic say in how those institutions run, they use it to advance their own position as a group at the expense of the whites who founded and ran those institutions in the first place
Why are you trying so hard to make it like there were no tiny little details that further explain this "phenomenon"??

>>3394356
>They didn't need them in the first place.

They did have their own indigenous ruling systems and political entities (which can be easily modernism).

>How do you run an institution when your a slave and have no rights to do anything?

Funniest thing is that Africans tried to work with the "system" but whites kept on hamstringing them and fucking them over. How is one to learn how a politician system works when yo aren't even allowed to participate in it lol.

>>3384782
Iq

>>3394356
>They didn't need them in the first place.
Now you're just contradicting yourself. In earlier posts you were putting economic growth and resource extraction as the standard. Well going by that standard, they did need those institutions because the economy pre-Rhodesian instutions was nowhere near the economy during those institutions.

>Except the land and the resources, ignoring everthing else you said.
The land and resources existed under the governance of Rhodesia. Rhodesia was founded by whites.

>How do you run an institution when your a slave and have no rights to do anything?
You don't, that's the point. It's not their institutions, they should have no say in how they're run. If they wanted institutions, they should have set their own up on their own land in the first place before that land was claimed by a group of people with the ability to do it themselves.

>duh
So then you agree with me, Rhodesia and America are/were white and should remain so.

>Why are you trying so hard to make it like there were no tiny little details that further explain this "phenomenon"??
I'm explaining it in the easiest, more clear-cut way possible. If you don't want blacks to take control of your institutions democratically, don't give them power within those institutions. It's the simplest answer to the problem. Remove them from the institutions, don't even give them a chance.

There is no circumstance by which a black country could have a functional tech industry as seen in the West.

You could throw money at educational facilities, have an Afrocentric curriculum, black teachers handpicked from the USA, wouldn't matter because there's no human capital to work with.

Meanwhile Asians in Singapore & HK turn barren rocks into worldclass economies. No one thinks HK will fall into disrepair because the white man is no longer the overseer. All blacks have are excuses and the blame game.

>>3393427
>cherrypicking this much

>>3395063

Nigeria is doing well economically right now, so not everything in Africa is a shithole. Also many African countries are inviting Chinese investors and businesses to help Africa get integrated to the world economy without being taking advantage of like for example Congo is right now, where it trades extremely valuable rare earth materials for little money, because they are dirt poor and they have no way to negotiate because their country has been until recently racked by wars and conflict.

>>3394395

If you are trying to argue that a democratic Apartheid state can function in the long run without anyone saying anything I don't if you are delusional or just plainly trolling. South Africa did have black institutions, hospitals, universities etc. What changed there was that you cannot maintain a democracy with unequal rights either it becomes a clear cut Nazi style racial oligarchy, or you grant equal opportunities to all members of that democracy to harmonise social conflict which will eventually will be resolved through dialogue and negotiation rather than full on violent revolt (this was also a possibility in S.A. something Afrikaners were afraid of).

The US is an entirely different case because it wasn't pressured by outside forces to change the Jim Crow laws, it was an internal conflict once again were the North culled the South's traditional racism that had wanted blacks to live only as servants or manual laborers. MLK got the more support from whites in states where Jim Crow never existed (also from churches) than from blacks in Southern States, because they were afraid to speak up.

>>3394395
>>3395166

Also concerning you Rhodesia example, because Rhodesia followed the opposite road than South Africa it did face the violent revolt and eventually violent collapse it did I talked about as a potentiality in South Africa. S.A. realised that you cannot run modern state with a racial oligarchy where you give NOTHING to the other group. South Africa despite its problems succeeded in at least preserving itself as a state, otherwise a guy like Mugabe instead of a Mandela, would rise up and you would have full on black on white racial violence were whites would be completely kicked off. The US even though it is a white majority country, it has never looked at itself as black vs white state, instead it is split between various interest groups that coalesce into one federal republic, you have blacks and whites, but also asians, catholics, latinos, libertarians, southern democrats, midwestern republicans, midwestern democrats etc. In terms of integration in a democracy the US is a sucess story even though there is still a lot of racism and power in identity politics (which exist inevitably due to high income inequality all around.)

>Southeast Asia
Is there any validity to the suggestion that the more Chinese population each country has, the more successful it becomes?