Italy or Greece Which country shaped Western Civilization the most?

>>3383488
Culturaly greece anything else italy.

>>3383488
Italy

>>3383488
well italy wasn't a country until the 1800's

I suppose in a manner of speaking neither was greece

>>3383488

Italy without question. Just think for a moment: Pizza. Pasta. Stromboli. Spaghetti. All from Italy. Now name 1 food from Greece without looking it up. You literally can't.

>>3383488
>Italy
Rome.

>>3383572
Gyros

>>3383572
gyros, tzatziki, souvlaki, baklavas, feta cheese

>>3383488
Since Rome and maybe Carthage and the Celts practically founded Western Civilization (Greece was European, not Western), the question is basically if those groups' culture was independent from that of the Greeks or not.

Greece did it first, Italy did it better.

>>3383572
Grape leaves, spanokopita, those purple olives

>>3383591
literally no one knows what those things are

>>3383572
Yogurt?

>>3383488
Rome, but since Greece had a lot to do with shaping Roman civilization, if you count indirect impact passing through Rome you can say "Greece" if it makes you feel happier.

>>3383488
I'd say Italy
Greeks kick-started it but they hadn't produced anything of value in the last 2000 years.

>>3383926
I think yogurt is way more ancient. I may be mistaken though.

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>>3383488
Italy is not a country but an artificial aberration

t. """"Italian"""""

>>3383913
>look guys, being a fucking idiot makes me look cool
Kys faggot

Both are cancer.
>muh western civilizashuuunnnn!!!
Needs to go back to /pol/

>>3383488
Rome spread it and thanks to it, germanics got civ and we have them here making stupids threads and claiming ancient greeks and latins were germanic too

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>>3384155
The various Italian provinces have only gotten stronger since unification. If you guys had never united, you would have gotten swallowed up by other empires or just continued to fight with one another like a bunch of short-sighted children. For the first time in history, the whole peninsula is unified and Italy is a top ten world economy.

>>3383488
belgium... all the big powers came through here to fight one another

USA

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>>3383488
Rome and the Renaissance Italian city states were extremely influential, but Hellenism formed the basis on which both depended.